Neuuman wrote:
Do you really believe Kyle Rau played elite league and high school hockey last year because he had no options at the next level? Your statement above definitely applies to some players, but to make a "blanket statement" like that is ludicrous.
IMHO
He didn't go anywhere because he didn't NEED to go anywhere. He was already in at the U and it looks like he's there now. He is that rare exception that went right from HS to D1. I hope it works out for him better than it did for Ness.
He's an outstanding young man and an outstanding player. but he's the exception rather than the rule in this case.
You tell me? The word I got was he played, "they" would be those individual(s) that got it changed. My point was those involved likely new the Elite league would not condone his participating. I don't see what the problem is but the the Elite league must have their reasons.
The Exiled One wrote:
For which team? You sure they didn't accidently type Michael when they meant Jonny? Also, somebody may have accidently typed in names from the protected list. I just don't see a benefit to Michael to play preseason in the USHL, so it's difficult for me to imagine him doing that.
Dude...get over it. He played. That is not the debate.
keepyourheadup wrote:Not sure where the shots at the Elite league came from. One might think that outside_observer has an agenda as well. While I can't speak for every kid in the league I'm absolutely certain of at least one player who could have left for the USHL and stayed. If not for the Elite league he'd be gone.
I do agree that its not a big deal and the league is overly sensitve about the issue but to broadly state that the league isn't keeping ANYONE around is false. Like all things, the Elite league leaves room for improvement but for most its the best alternative available.
Well, everyone has an agenda.
Mine is "Truth, Justice and the American way"
"Baseball, hot dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet"
The athlete that you know, did not want to go to the USHL, or he would have. Simple as that.
And before you say anything, no, neither I nor any of my family have ever been 'shafted' by the Elite League.
The players that have the opportunity to leave and go to the USHL, NAHL canadian juniors, etc.... are going to
Per your words above, NOT every player that has the opportunity to leave does. Do you really think, in the past few years, Nick Leddy, Kyle Rau, and Bjugstad DIDN"T have the opportunity to leave? Do you really believe Kyle Rau played elite league and high school hockey last year because he had no options at the next level? Your statement above definitely applies to some players, but to make a "blanket statement" like that is ludicrous.
IMHO
Yes, because they didn't want to play in the USHL. If someone wants to play in the USHL, and has the opportunity, they will go. the 'Elite' League is not keeping them here. Playing in the State Tourney kept those three here.
No disrespect to the USHL, but it's kind of a step backwards culturally from either Elites, MnHSL, and D1 college -- not nearly the same exposure, but twice as much development.
A guy like Mario Lucia is obviously setting his sights on logging time at Pentiction, kicking butt at D1 for a year or two, and then jumping to the NHL -- why else would he forgo all the love these kids get at Elites and in High School hockey? Players like Leddy and Rau ARE the exception that proves the rule. No juniors necessary (well, we'll see about Rau).
It's amazing how many players of pro and olympic caliber keep saying the MN state high school tournament was the highlight of their career. I'm a big believer in the idea that lots of kids will peak at HS Varsity and that's where they belong, then they can hit the ceiling in juniors or college, as many do. The D1- and NHL-bound are not going to lose that opportunity by staying home for their senior year -- unless they have a career ending injury, I suppose.
I'd rather have a kid play out his potential at every level, but the lure of a D1 offer (with a year or two of juniors) or an NHL draft must be a strong temptation. Get better faster! It's sort of a mercenary, selfish approach to hockey (there IS no "I" in team, but there IS a "ME") but that's the world we live in. I think Rau among others really wanted to play out his high school career with the buddies with whom he won Pee Wee and Bantam state ships. But we all remember those two or three weeks when he was USHL bound before the beginning of last season....
Stated that way it sounds convincing, how about the kid that would like to play in the USHL but would like going to school with his friends just as much? The Elite league might very well be "keeping them here"
keepyourheadup wrote:Stated that way it sounds convincing, how about the kid that would like to play in the USHL but would like going to school with his friends just as much? The Elite league might very well be "keeping them here"
Then being at home , playing and going to school with his friends is keeping him here.
keepyourheadup wrote:Stated that way it sounds convincing, how about the kid that would like to play in the USHL but would like going to school with his friends just as much? The Elite league might very well be "keeping them here"
Then being at home , playing and going to school with his friends is keeping him here.
Hypothetical Formula -
High school, buddies, prom, no elite league - PLAYER LEAVES
High school, buddies, prom, elite league - PLAYER STAYS IN H.S.
Do you really think this formula applies to NOBODY?
Neuuman wrote:
Do you really believe Kyle Rau played elite league and high school hockey last year because he had no options at the next level? Your statement above definitely applies to some players, but to make a "blanket statement" like that is ludicrous.
IMHO
He didn't go anywhere because he didn't NEED to go anywhere. He was already in at the U and it looks like he's there now. He is that rare exception that went right from HS to D1. I hope it works out for him better than it did for Ness.
He's an outstanding young man and an outstanding player. but he's the exception rather than the rule in this case.
Auld_School makes a very good point. IMO, the Elite League concept and idea is vastly overrated on many fronts. 1. League promotes this idea that if you play in the EL, said player will get exposure and be scouted by colleges/pro scouts. Really?? 99% of these players have been on the radars of scouts for some time already. Why, because they have been playing in top AAA tourneys since they were in squirts and or USA hockey elite programs already. What do these players really gain by playing in this league?? 2. If a player is seen by the scouts they may get a scholarship to play hockey in college is the said idea. Breaking news: most of these kids dont need scholarships to go to college anyway, hockey is an expensive sport and the majority of these players have the means to go to college anyway. 3. I have been to an elite league game in the past and there were like 10 people there, exposure, huh??? Again, it seems a bit ridiculous IMO to think that these players have some great advantage playing in this fall league, if a player is good enough the scouts know who they are before their Junior/ Senior years in HS.
Howie....if you haven't been to an Elite league game recently, I think you should head over to New Hope Arena next year on opening weekend. There were literally dozens of scouts there. I counted 6 WCHA head coaches alone. We could argue all day about whether or not this "exposure" is all that meaningful. To say there were "like 10 people there" is way off the mark. Is this league even comparable to the USHL? Not even close but like I've said in the past its better than no league at all.
You mentioned scouts know who the best kids are before their jr/sr year in High School. If you want I can give you a list of kids that have moved on to D1 who came out of nowhere as seniors in HS.
keepyourheadup wrote:Howie....if you haven't been to an Elite league game recently, I think you should head over to New Hope Arena next year on opening weekend. There were literally dozens of scouts there. I counted 6 WCHA head coaches alone. We could argue all day about whether or not this "exposure" is all that meaningful. To say there were "like 10 people there" is way off the mark. Is this league even comparable to the USHL? Not even close but like I've said in the past its better than no league at all.
You mentioned scouts know who the best kids are before their jr/sr year in High School. If you want I can give you a list of kids that have moved on to D1 who came out of nowhere as seniors in HS.
Fair enough, the game I attended was a few years ago and I did not see many scouts or fans at the game. Maybe this has changed a bit more recently. Without question some kids hit their stride as seniors, but... not many of those kids would be picked to play in Elite league if they A. said kid had no connections, or B. Had not put up big points before their senior year. On opening weekend you will of course always have more scouts and people as opposed to the middle of the schedule.
keepyourheadup wrote:Howie....if you haven't been to an Elite league game recently, I think you should head over to New Hope Arena next year on opening weekend. There were literally dozens of scouts there. I counted 6 WCHA head coaches alone. We could argue all day about whether or not this "exposure" is all that meaningful. To say there were "like 10 people there" is way off the mark. Is this league even comparable to the USHL? Not even close but like I've said in the past its better than no league at all.
You mentioned scouts know who the best kids are before their jr/sr year in High School. If you want I can give you a list of kids that have moved on to D1 who came out of nowhere as seniors in HS.
I would like the see the list of players that came out of nowhere their senior yr?
That's an interesting point. There ARE those kids who get scouted and pursued who DON'T get much attention, who end up excelling at D1 and even the NHL, but who are still developing in high school. Good scouts should be finding them, rather than simply tooting the horn on known quantities -- especially skilled kids of former NHLers. We know they're good, we know thy have good genes, easy story (and one the media loves too), and the only drama is whether they'll meet high expectations or not.
I don't have that list of "seniors who came out of no where," but I know it exists, or else the whole scouting profession should get a real job.
High school, buddies, prom, no elite league - PLAYER LEAVES
High school, buddies, prom, elite league - PLAYER STAYS IN H.S.
Do you really think this formula applies to NOBODY?
Just curious.
Yes I do.
Well, I guess you must be right. I personally know one kid for which this is true. I guess he must be lying - he's saying one thing but because you are ALL-KNOWING you know more about his situation than he does. You should run for GOD.
For what its worth, while I don't have "the list" I read an article not that long ago about the list of players from Edina that went on to D1 hockey that never even made the high school team. Kids develop at different ages..nobody beat down Joel Otto's door either. He won a cup and was a captain in the NHL.
keepyourheadup wrote:Howie....if you haven't been to an Elite league game recently, I think you should head over to New Hope Arena next year on opening weekend. There were literally dozens of scouts there. I counted 6 WCHA head coaches alone. We could argue all day about whether or not this "exposure" is all that meaningful. To say there were "like 10 people there" is way off the mark. Is this league even comparable to the USHL? Not even close but like I've said in the past its better than no league at all.
You mentioned scouts know who the best kids are before their jr/sr year in High School. If you want I can give you a list of kids that have moved on to D1 who came out of nowhere as seniors in HS.
I would like the see the list of players that came out of nowhere their senior yr?
I will give you a few:
Nate Day
Eddie Witchow
JT Wyman
Sam Windel
Brady Riesgraf
Patrick Daly
Lets have a little fun with this, I'll bet most of my fellow posters can come up with a few names of their own. Lets compile our own list. Its my guess we'll have 50 or more in no time. Joihn Brill...grand Rapids, played JV as a soph, not so sure they had him as a lock then.