Movin' on up!

[royals dad]

Q- Your contention that the upper 5% to 10% of our youth hockey participants are undeserved is incorrect in my opinion. No need to talk slower I understand your argument I just disagree with it.

As for the choice league filling up because Minnesota Hockey is broken, my contention is that your off on the reason. I think it has more to do with the fact that they are located in the middle of the the states largest associations and that those parents feel more pressure than most can understand to try and give their player the boost they need to make the HS team. I feel sorry for the Edina parent that dreams of their boy playing at the X some day when they see him as 1 of 175 mites, Bernie is selling them the dream of an edge over the rest of them, right or wrong that is how he makes most of his money.

Bo- Still have never heard of a waiver from a B association to an A team being denied. If the skill is there they will be welcome to the new association. I have personally seen it to be true in at least 20 kids.

[HockeyDad41]

No, you have been perfectly clear. You just won't open your mind to other peoples points. I have seen this before.... BUT you want a good reason not to move a kid up, CONFIDENCE. There is no substitute for the confidence a player gains by being "the man" on his team instead of being just "one of many" by playing up. We have a kid near us that has been playing up since he was a second year mite. He still plays up on his current team (which is a winter AAA team, so he is in essence playing with the age group above him). He looks great when he plays with his own age group but honestly he is not the numero uno best kid on the ice, he is one of them but he isn't so head and shoulders above everyone that you just go "wow", he just has a really high motor. Meanwhile some of the other best kids on the ice have been playing with their own age groups the whole time never playing up. One of the main reasons, IMHO, that he doesn't look better than you would think he should is that because he plays up he is used to deferring to older, better players. Sure he skates hard and works hard but when it comes to needing a play made at critical points in the game the guys who don't play up are the ones making those plays most of the time because they are used to ebing "the man" and know what is required at those junctures. Sure there is a kid every once in a blue moon who is still "the man" even when he plays up but those kids are so, so rare. BUT when you look at this message board, or attend a tryout or a youth board meeting you'd swear every single association has like 4 of those kids, atleast according to their parents......

You want a second reason. LEADERSHIP. Basically it goes hand in hand with what I wrote above about confidence but you learn to be a leader on a team when youa re that good and play with your own age group, you learn to be a follower when you play up. THere are exceptions toe very rule but I have found this to be the rule.

You want a third, humility, both for kid and parent. Something lacking in youth sports in general in my opinion.

Shall I go on?

You make some very good points. Can you see any situation where it might be beneficial for a mite aged player to move up?

[mnhockey2019]

An example of a situation where it would make sense to have a kid play up would be a kid with a July 02 birthday, started school with his age group, most of whom will be first year squirts, and is skilled enough to play with the older kids. For some of these kids, if they continue to play mites this year, it could be their 5-6th season of mite/termite hockey.

All kinds of arguments one way or the other, and clearly one size does not fit all, and either associations allow it or they don't, and if they don't -- probably not getting changed this year.

[InigoMontoya]

An example of a situation where it would make sense to have a kid play up would be a kid with a July 02 birthday, started school with his age group, most of whom will be first year squirts, and is skilled enough to play with the older kids. For some of these kids, if they continue to play mites this year, it could be their 5-6th season of mite/termite hockey.

All kinds of arguments one way or the other, and clearly one size does not fit all, and either associations allow it or they don't, and if they don't -- probably not getting changed this year.

I don't think there are any associations that would disallow a kid to play up with his classmates. Most don't allow them to move back down after the original move up.

[mnhockey2019]

An example of a situation where it would make sense to have a kid play up would be a kid with a July 02 birthday, started school with his age group, most of whom will be first year squirts, and is skilled enough to play with the older kids. For some of these kids, if they continue to play mites this year, it could be their 5-6th season of mite/termite hockey.

All kinds of arguments one way or the other, and clearly one size does not fit all, and either associations allow it or they don't, and if they don't -- probably not getting changed this year.

I don't think there are any associations that would disallow a kid to play up with his classmates. Most don't allow them to move back down after the original move up.

From talking to parents during the AAA season this summer, I know of at least two smaller associations that are not allowing kids in the situation I laid out to move up to Squirts. Both associations are applying the June 30/July 1 date as a hard and fast rule, and therefore not allowing 4th graders to be to play squirts.

[JSR]

No, you have been perfectly clear. You just won't open your mind to other peoples points. I have seen this before.... BUT you want a good reason not to move a kid up, CONFIDENCE. There is no substitute for the confidence a player gains by being "the man" on his team instead of being just "one of many" by playing up. We have a kid near us that has been playing up since he was a second year mite. He still plays up on his current team (which is a winter AAA team, so he is in essence playing with the age group above him). He looks great when he plays with his own age group but honestly he is not the numero uno best kid on the ice, he is one of them but he isn't so head and shoulders above everyone that you just go "wow", he just has a really high motor. Meanwhile some of the other best kids on the ice have been playing with their own age groups the whole time never playing up. One of the main reasons, IMHO, that he doesn't look better than you would think he should is that because he plays up he is used to deferring to older, better players. Sure he skates hard and works hard but when it comes to needing a play made at critical points in the game the guys who don't play up are the ones making those plays most of the time because they are used to ebing "the man" and know what is required at those junctures. Sure there is a kid every once in a blue moon who is still "the man" even when he plays up but those kids are so, so rare. BUT when you look at this message board, or attend a tryout or a youth board meeting you'd swear every single association has like 4 of those kids, atleast according to their parents......

You want a second reason. LEADERSHIP. Basically it goes hand in hand with what I wrote above about confidence but you learn to be a leader on a team when youa re that good and play with your own age group, you learn to be a follower when you play up. THere are exceptions toe very rule but I have found this to be the rule.

You want a third, humility, both for kid and parent. Something lacking in youth sports in general in my opinion.

Shall I go on?

You make some very good points. Can you see any situation where it might be beneficial for a mite aged player to move up?

Sure, there are no absolutes. With you Minnesotans having that unique midyear age cutoff thing it definitely brings some possibilities into play that seem reasonable, and I actually allowed in my previous psot for the truly, truly rare exceptional kid who would even dominate the level he is playing up with, but again I see 10 times more requests than are legitimate siutations for doing it. I am not saying never, just not as much as some parents think if that makes sense.

[Quasar]

Q- Your contention that the upper 5% to 10% of our youth hockey participants are undeserved is incorrect in my opinion. No need to talk slower I understand your argument I just disagree with it.

As for the choice league filling up because Minnesota Hockey is broken, my contention is that your off on the reason. I think it has more to do with the fact that they are located in the middle of the the states largest associations and that those parents feel more pressure than most can understand to try and give their player the boost they need to make the HS team. I feel sorry for the Edina parent that dreams of their boy playing at the X some day when they see him as 1 of 175 mites, Bernie is selling them the dream of an edge over the rest of them, right or wrong that is how he makes most of his money.

Bo- Still have never heard of a waiver from a B association to an A team being denied. If the skill is there they will be welcome to the new association. I have personally seen it to be true in at least 20 kids.

I'm in enough trouble ..Don't be dragging me over here

[Ugh]

We [ fl] don't allow mite move ups.. I think WBL had a kid play squirt A, And a couple B. Maybe something we should look @. It's a #'s thing for us. Keep all thye kids you can at the cheaper $ level. My opinion is put the best teams on the ice you can. If you have a 2 yr old that is squirt A quality let it ride!!!!!!!!!!! [If it is good for the team]

FL does have a move up policy -- mites can move to C squirts, and only C squirts, if kids are needed to fill out roster spots. If the kid is a Hockey 8 in 4th grade, he can move up & is bound to stay with that age group (i.e. still only gets 2 years of squirts, not 3).

FL tried to change that last year to let kids tryout for squirts and the then board rejected it.