Can-Am Selects win 32-0?

[Lord Baltimore]

This is the very reason why WINTER AAA hockey needs to be prevented at all costs. The model is severely flawed.

No, this is the reason that winter AAA hockey needs to happen in a controlled way. The setup now with an Invite and Open label needs to be expanded to include a Rec level and teams need to be held accountable so that this does not happen. There needs to be an A, B, and C level and teams need to be slotted into them and then need to be moved up or down to fit.

Actually that's not what I meant. When I said the system is severely flawed, I mean it in the sense that the system itself is set up to promote the robbing and stealing of players from team to team. There is no loyalty from the top down or the bottom up. There are no controls in place therefore it can't be controlled. As long as this beahavior is allowed to exist, you will never get away from lopsided victories.

You can create all the divisions you want but human nature is what it is...AAA coaches want...no NEED to win in order for the program to stay viable. Sure they promote development as a cornerstone of their program, but behind the scenes they are always looking for those next 2-4 kids that will get their team to the next level. And if anyone denies this, then you're just not paying attention. And if they have to take that kid or kids from a team across town, than so be it. Therefore, over time, it's usually 2 or maybe three teams that seperate themselves because they have been empire building for 5, 6 or 7 years. The remaining teams are left to make do with what they have and simply can't compete.

If your looking for a fun excercise, write down the birth years from 1997 - 2002 and at each year list the number of top / elite teams (locally). You will find that as you go from 2002- 1997 the number of teams at the top shrinks considerably. My point is, seperate or segragate all you want, but the current AAA system is set up to drive the top talent to a few barns, leaving the rest of the barns partially bare and struggling to be successful. And this is exactly what I would NOT want to see in winter hockey.

[2112]

Lordy, Lrdy, Lordy Players can only be rostered for 1 team. I repeat only 1 team, thus they cannot go from team to team. So you do not have to worry about loaded teams for every tourney. The structure of Tier 1 hockey prohibits the things you dislike about summer hockey, so relax and get informed before you rip on winter Tier1 hockey.

[Lord Baltimore]

Lordy, Lrdy, Lordy Players can only be rostered for 1 team. I repeat only 1 team, thus they cannot go from team to team. So you do not have to worry about loaded teams for every tourney. The structure of Tier 1 hockey prohibits the things you dislike about summer hockey, so relax and get informed before you rip on winter Tier1 hockey.

Thanks for the 'ol debate attempt of "Classify your opponent in order to discredit him" ...but no dice here ghost of xmas future. Trust me, I am extremely informed.

Read the entire post. See the statement "Empire building for 5,6 or 7 years"? Or did you miss that as you were rereading your Tier 1 bylaws? I'm not talking about kids moving around with in the same season, I'm talking about kids moving around year-to-year. This year their on Ice Hounds, next year they are on Legacy, the following year they are on they are on the Blades, etc, etc... This cannot be controlled and is in my opinion the ugly side of Tier 1 hockey. Parents treat their children like 9-year-old free agents every March. Eventually, the top kids (parents) will find each other and your left with 2-3 "A" teams and 35 other teams.

[2112]

Lordy, its called free market capitalism. People can make choices of where kids play. But i see you don`t want that, you would rather control everyone just so you are happy . Misery loves company.

[Lord Baltimore]

Ahh more cynicism. You do know it's the laziest form of debate because it's the easist emotion to summon up right?

Free markets are good, most of the time and they do exist in association hockey just like they exist in Tier 1 hockey. Please tell me you know this. How is moving from Texas to St. Louis to play for the Jr. Blues any different that moving from Richfield to Edina so your kid could play for the Hornets? It happens and I would argue that it's actually easier to do within the Minnesota model. After all, moving 10 miles away isn't that difficult to do when compared with a 500 mile move. So don't play the free market card here, it holds no water. It's just not done that often in the Minnesota winter model for many reasons.

[Lord Baltimore]

Lordy, Lrdy, Lordy Players can only be rostered for 1 team. I repeat only 1 team, thus they cannot go from team to team. So you do not have to worry about loaded teams for every tourney. The structure of Tier 1 hockey prohibits the things you dislike about summer hockey, so relax and get informed before you rip on winter Tier1 hockey.

Thanks for the 'ol debate attempt of "Classify your opponent in order to discredit him" ...but no dice here ghost of xmas future. Trust me, I am extremely informed.

Read the entire post. See the statement "Empire building for 5,6 or 7 years"? Or did you miss that as you were rereading your Tier 1 bylaws? I'm not talking about kids moving around with in the same season, I'm talking about kids moving around year-to-year. This year their on Ice Hounds, next year they are on Legacy, the following year they are on they are on the Blades, etc, etc... This cannot be controlled and is in my opinion the ugly side of Tier 1 hockey. Parents treat their children like 9-year-old free agents every March. Eventually, the top kids (parents) will find each other and your left with 2-3 "A" teams and 35 other teams.

Seems like a good way to do it. That way the clubs stay honest and compete for players and the players stay honest and work to keep their spots.

That's a fair point NPC...but aren't players always competing for spots regardless of the model? Look at any team, association or Teir 1, there are probably 2-5 top players that will usually always be there and then there's the rest...competing.

[buttend]

97 machine played up in 96 level and should have went to the invite level too, too bad the 97 machine couldn't not have set up a game with the 97 can am team.....

They played 4 weeks ago at the Independant AAA Tourney
97 CanAm lost 6-0 to 97 Machine Black Duece

[DDad]

Found CAN/AM invite scores at Independent Cup last month online
5-3 win vs Lake Superior Stars
6-1 win vs MSC North
6-0 loss to machine
2-0 win vs Team Dynamic
8-3 win vs Easton Stealth

[I know all]

My name is I know all but I didn't know that. They are a very strong invite team playing in an open tournament with many first year programs. I will be cheering for the Machine to beat them again if they ever play again.

[DDad]

I think lesson learned for all. Even a watered down invite team is too strong for some opens. I do know it is new program so I guess everyone should live and learn from it. I am sure you won't see this team and others that know about it experimenting in an open again.

[Shinbone_News]

As far as running up the score goes, it happens ALL THE TIME in Tier 1 AAA winter hockey. I have a nephew in Chicago who is a quality Pewee, his Chicago Fury went something like 1-31 on the year, with scores against Honeybaked and Little Ceasars that were regularly 16-0, 12-0 and similar. Don't believe it? Check MyHockeyRankings for a real eye-opener. (http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2010&a=p&v=114) It's actually shocking how few of these teams have around a .500 record, they either kill or get killed -- which I think supports the horses-to-barns theory that Lordy is talking about. (On top of all that, my sister pays about $20K per year total on hockey for her quality Peewee.)

Now granted, once you get to 20-0, you're talking willful douche-baggery on the part of coaches (IMHO), and if accompanied by horrible sportsmanship by the crushing team, more than enough cause for a righteous forfeiture.

Why do the scores get run up? Not enough teams of equal quality maybe?

One other point to make, I think. My son is on what I would call an OK B-level AAA club, they get beat more than they win and the scores can look lopsided while the play is fairly even. This happens at the younger levels, I think, because quality shooters are more common than quality goalies. (Squirt goalies in a full-sized net, spot me 5 goals at least -- but that's another thread altogether.) It's often not so much a story of individual talent -- they seem equally matched there -- but better team play, suggesting that teams that stay together for more than one summer, or draw from the same associations, have a big advantage in playmaking. It makes me think one thing: Maybe the boyo should try out for a few of the winning-er AAA's NEXT year and be a part of a more teamy team. Again, supporting Lordy's theory, I think.

[the_juiceman]

Lordy, Lrdy, Lordy Players can only be rostered for 1 team. I repeat only 1 team, thus they cannot go from team to team. So you do not have to worry about loaded teams for every tourney. The structure of Tier 1 hockey prohibits the things you dislike about summer hockey, so relax and get informed before you rip on winter Tier1 hockey.

That's the rule--but I know several kids that play on two AAA teams- are they allowed to play up and be rostered on both? example--he's a 98 and plays 97 & 98.

[Shinbone_News]

I think what Lordy was talking about was switching from one AAA team to another from year to year -- not in one season. And the fear is that it leads to driving top talent to one or two teams instead of spreading it around. You can try out for as many as you're willing to pay for.