Friends don't let Friends...

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:18 am

keepyourheadup wrote:So what you are saying is basically that a team Minnesota would do about the same as team Wisconcin, you've now answered your own question from your earlier thread.

Not even remotely what I said. As I tell my children all the time, just because I say someone else is good at something does not make you less good at it........... Also, I did not ask a question earlier, someone else did, I just offered an opinion of what I thought an answer to that quesion was.

O-townClown · Post by **O-townClown** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:21 am

JSR, what I said is that if these part-time teams come to dominate the Tier I tournament you'll see USA Hockey view this differently. This year they weren't a factor.

Minnesota doesn't send Youth teams to nationals at any other level. I don't see this changing. Maybe I'm wrong.

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:30 am

My apologies JSR, I thought you were the author of the Mn vs. WI thread. Appreciate your opinions.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:31 am

O-townClown wrote:JSR, what I said is that if these part-time teams come to dominate the Tier I tournament you'll see USA Hockey view this differently. This year they weren't a factor.

Minnesota doesn't send Youth teams to nationals at any other level. I don't see this changing. Maybe I'm wrong.

Midfairfield Blues were in the championship game this year. Boston Jr. Bruins represent their region regularly, including this year, and they made teh semifinals . Team Wisconsin frequently represents their region in nationals and has won a title in recent years. These "part time" teams are a huge factor every year including this year with two of them making the semifinals and one making the championship game against SSM. How does that make them a not a factor this year???? I also don't see any team ever "dominating" the Tier 1 tourney consistantly, it's just too good a level of hockey. I suppose a team could rear it's head every once in a great while but not consistantly.

Also, I know MN does not send any teams to nationals at any other level, but the Tier 1 AAA U18 level could be an exception to help keep it's best talent in state and in high school. I mean that's the goal, right? Also, with all this other pressure from all sides it never hurts to explore alternatives, keeping everything exactly the same always is the surest way to kill something

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:36 am

keepyourheadup wrote:My apologies JSR, I thought you were the author of the Mn vs. WI thread. Appreciate your opinions.

No problem, appreciate everyones opinions here

observer · Post by **observer** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:51 am

The Elite League does form two teams at the end of their fall season to compete in the Bauer NIT early November. In fact, the White team beat Shattuck in the Championship. Make one team from those two and they would be a very good team.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Fri May 13, 2011 12:15 pm

observer wrote:The Elite League does form two teams at the end of their fall season to compete in the Bauer NIT early November. In fact, the White team beat Shattuck in the Championship. Make one team from those two and they would be a very good team.

I think a thread about this line of thinking already exists

AlterEagle · Post by **AlterEagle** » Sat May 14, 2011 12:44 am

observer wrote:The Elite League does form two teams at the end of their fall season to compete in the Bauer NIT early November. In fact, the White team beat Shattuck in the Championship. Make one team from those two and they would be a very good team.

Not only did white beat SSM this year (a good game - saw in person), but the red team embarrassed SSM last year 10-3 in the championship game. I wonder what the story was there...

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Sat May 14, 2011 10:57 am

MrBoDangles wrote:HSHW was on to something with conditioning. BSM and STA both seemed to go flat towards the end of the games. Were they hyped up at the beginning of the game or was SSM more game ready? Tough to know for sure.....

Hockey Hub has the box wrong, so I'm not totally sure where the mistakes are, that being said, St Thomas was leading 1-0 after the 1st (20m) period, then after a shorter second period was still leading 3-2. While I highly doubt 3 minutes is the reason they got outscored 6-1 in the 3rd, I'm sure it played a part.

Hopefully next year the game is played in Mendota Heights and there is no home cookin' going on.

observer wrote:The Elite League does form two teams at the end of their fall season to compete in the Bauer NIT early November. In fact, the White team beat Shattuck in the Championship. Make one team from those two and they would be a very good team.

So on one hand, the majority of us want kids to stick around and play for their communities, but ultimately we want all of the best kids to play together? Interesting.

hockeyfan893 · Post by **hockeyfan893** » Sat May 14, 2011 2:41 pm

[quote="AlterEagle"][quote="MoreCowBell"]Comparing SSM to MN HS hockey is apples and oranges, a lot of the good players at SSM never stay at the school long enough to play on the prep team, if they did a high school team wouldn't touch them. They go off to Ann Arbor, Canadian Jr's or USHL. Cammaretta and MacKinnon most likely will be gone.[/quote]Considering many MN HS players go to Ann Arbor and USHL as well - we're pretty much back to comparing apples. And Cammaratta is a MN product btw - not high school obviously, but he grew up playing Minnesota Youth Hockey (aside from a stint at Fire).[/quote]

Aside from a stint at Fire?

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.. but I'm pretty sure the only time he played youth hockey for Minnesota was as a squirt. From then on it was all Tier 1. I'm not surprised that the "Minnesota Hockey" elitists are already trying to stake a claim to this kid. He's a product of Tier 1; Fire, Shattuck, not Minnesota Youth. Let's be fair.

AlterEagle · Post by **AlterEagle** » Sat May 14, 2011 8:40 pm

hockeyfan893 wrote:
AlterEagle wrote:
MoreCowBell wrote:Comparing SSM to MN HS hockey is apples and oranges, a lot of the good players at SSM never stay at the school long enough to play on the prep team, if they did a high school team wouldn't touch them. They go off to Ann Arbor, Canadian Jr's or USHL. Cammaretta and MacKinnon most likely will be gone.
Considering many MN HS players go to Ann Arbor and USHL as well - we're pretty much back to comparing apples. And Cammaratta is a MN product btw - not high school obviously, but he grew up playing Minnesota Youth Hockey (aside from a stint at Fire).
Aside from a stint at Fire?

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.. but I'm pretty sure the only time he played youth hockey for Minnesota was as a squirt. From then on it was all Tier 1. I'm not surprised that the "Minnesota Hockey" elitists are already trying to stake a claim to this kid. He's a product of Tier 1; Fire, Shattuck, not Minnesota Youth. Let's be fair.

...ok fine so he played peewee Fire and Bantam Shattuck. But he's been great all along - it's not like Tier 1 benefitted him any more than playing mn youth would have. And don't try to tell me that all Tier 1 teams are elite level because they're not - sorry pal. MN has elite, tier 1 has elite, and at the youth levels both leagues log a ton of ice time.

hockeyfan893 · Post by **hockeyfan893** » Sun May 15, 2011 12:36 am

[quote="AlterEagle"][quote="hockeyfan893"][quote="AlterEagle"][quote="MoreCowBell"]Comparing SSM to MN HS hockey is apples and oranges, a lot of the good players at SSM never stay at the school long enough to play on the prep team, if they did a high school team wouldn't touch them. They go off to Ann Arbor, Canadian Jr's or USHL. Cammaretta and MacKinnon most likely will be gone.[/quote]Considering many MN HS players go to Ann Arbor and USHL as well - we're pretty much back to comparing apples. And Cammaratta is a MN product btw - not high school obviously, but he grew up playing Minnesota Youth Hockey (aside from a stint at Fire).[/quote]

Aside from a stint at Fire?

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.. but I'm pretty sure the only time he played youth hockey for Minnesota was as a squirt. From then on it was all Tier 1. I'm not surprised that the "Minnesota Hockey" elitists are already trying to stake a claim to this kid. He's a product of Tier 1; Fire, Shattuck, not Minnesota Youth. Let's be fair.[/quote]...ok fine so he played peewee Fire and Bantam Shattuck. But he's been great all along - it's not like Tier 1 benefitted him any more than playing mn youth would have. And don't try to tell me that all Tier 1 teams are elite level because they're not - sorry pal. MN has elite, tier 1 has elite, and at the youth levels both leagues log a ton of ice time.[/quote]

The amount of words you put in my mouth is astounding. I merely corrected some false information. In no way shape or form did I take a side on the tier 1 vs minnesota youth issue. Nor do I plan to; it's a pointless debate.

BBB · Post by **BBB** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:12 pm

In response to the original thread. Maybe players go to shattuck for different reasons. They don't go there for the large crowds or the notoriety they could get playing somewhere else. It obviously a good stepping stone for players looking to ready themselves for the next levels of hockey.
Here is a youtube clip of a former shattuck player who because he was Chicago's captain at 20 years old...got to grab the cup first. He also won the conn smythe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5bim3RP5fY
The year before another SSM alum picked up the cup as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrHyoXcA ... re=related
Zach Parise is another one who is not too bad. USA's leading scorer at the olympics. Throw in Jack Johnson and Malone and SSM had 5 guys in the gold medal game.
Yes, some of those guys would have ended up as great players regardless. Look at Stepan and McBain. They went from SSM to Wisconsin, which is also known for developing pros, and are NHL ready guys at Age 20 or 21. Both were in the Youngstars game at the all star break if I remember correctly as some of the top young talent in the game. Stepan also captained the US gold medal WJC team.
All of these guys leave home when it probably isn't an easy thing to do and commit themselves to hockey. So maybe playing 28 games a season (half against garbage teams) isn't what every kid from MN is looking for. Good for the ones who use it as a tool to win gold medals, Stanley Cups, Conn Smythes, and get drafted very high. All of these guys seem way ahead of the curve and maybe that has something to with SSM.
For the guys who went the college route like Toews and Parise at UND and McBain and Stepan at UW, staying away from the Gophers probably didn't hurt their cause either.

MnMade-4-Life · Post by **MnMade-4-Life** » Fri May 20, 2011 2:04 pm

BBB wrote:... staying away from the Gophers probably didn't hurt their cause either.

low blow

mulefarm · Post by **mulefarm** » Fri May 20, 2011 3:59 pm

MnMade-4-Life wrote:
BBB wrote:... staying away from the Gophers probably didn't hurt their cause either.
low blow

Not a low blow, just an honest statement.

No Political Connections · Tue May 24, 2011 9:47 am

mulefarm wrote:
MnMade-4-Life wrote:
BBB wrote:... staying away from the Gophers probably didn't hurt their cause either.
low blow
Not a low blow, just an honest statement.

Made way funnier due to the fact that there is a heavy element of truth to the statement.

breakout · Post by **breakout** » Fri May 27, 2011 6:20 pm

Good stuff. Same arguments that have been streaming on this blog for years.