STA

[West Hockey]

Question for MNmade: If STA or any private school, only competed against other private schools, would their hockey program (or soccer, or football) attract students? I suspect the answer is No. The hockey and football programs at STA are recruiting tools.

If someone chooses to go to a private school because of academics, religion, or morals, that is a family decision. If they go to a private school for athletics, then an entire association and high school athletic program has been hoodwinked.

I have never seen the head coach from STA, BSM, Blake, et al show up at an association's Squirt C practice to give a chalk talk or run a few drills. I have never heard of a private school's varsity players hosting Mite Night. Maybe they do, I've just never heard of it.

With very rare exception, an association feeds to one high school. When a player is cherry picked, all the time and effort of the association to develop that player, has been swiped. If the privates want to have an athletic program, let them develop the talent on their own dime, with their own coaches and volunteers instead of using my time and my money.

[West Hockey]

Although I would like to see private schools like STA move up to AA what I would really like to see is for them to have their own section in each A and AA. Put them all in the same section and let them battle it out. I think it would change everyones views on transferring schools for hockey purposes only.

Well said. Great idea.

[GreekChurch]

Longest second post ever?

I saw his 1st post, and couldn't make it through, I looked at the 2nd post, and decided I will just wait until the movie comes out.

[No Political Connections]

Whether STA moves to AA or stays in A is, in my opinion, irrelevant. I don't like to see so many private schools dominate the state tournaments. The great thing about the tournament is that communities are represented. It's the culmination of years of association work--hours and hours of volunteer time, car pooling, tournaments, etc. I hate Edina just as much as anyone, but I certainly respect their association and their teams. When Edina or EP or Tonka are at the state tournament, entire communities (and associations) are represented--not a select group of parachioal kids. It's even more pronounced in small outstate schools. Towns shut down. Offices close. Then they come to St. Paul and they get to play a bunch of rich kids from some private school representing no association and no community. I rather have them come to the cities and just play some regular ol' rich kids. It's not about just STA--it's all of them.

When an association loses a player to a private school, the entire community loses. So, let the privates have their own tournament, or even their own section at each class. Let them have their own conference. They have chosen to remove themselves from their community's school (which is completely their own choice), why should they get to play in that community's athletic conference or tournament?

I am not bashing private schools or private education or people who choose to go that route. But if you choose to leave your town's school, then leave. Go do your own thing. But I don't think you can or should have your cake and eat it too.

There are a couple of things of interest here. First off I wonder how many private schools there are that compete in hockey. We all know about the Axis of Evil (STA and Breck) but how many of the small private schools get hammered along with all of the public schools? I do think on some level that STA should move up, if for no other reason than to put their kids into a harder environment to compete against stronger teams figuring that you learn more when you play above your head. The other thing though is that people make it sound like the private schools are hanging around the rinks with a bottle of chloroform and a rag waiting for practice to end so that they can abduct the strong players from Public School X. Isn't it true that the public schools have an advantage over the private schools? The kid has his buddies and history there, it is in his home neighborhood so you know he grew up rooting for them so he has those ties, I don't know what it costs to go to STA or Breck but I can only imagine it is not cheap, the fact that if that kid is good enough to make a team at STA or Breck you would assume that he could make it at his home school. Why would a kid who has it all going for him leave for STA? I do not buy the whole learn leadership and mature deal, kids do not think that way. Kids leave because the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. What I would like to do is find out where those kids come from on their way to STA. Why (remember this is going to a costly boy's school where they do not have girls, have to keep their hair cut short, probably do not let them wear hats backwards and they have to wear a uniform so it runs counter to lots of what a 15 year old boy regards as normal) would a kid leave to go there? Seems counter intuitive to me unless he is forced out for some reason.

[PuckU126]

I saw his 1st post, and couldn't make it through, I looked at the 2nd post, and decided I will just wait until the movie comes out.

It's a good read.

I'll give the movie 2 1/2 stars.

[The X]

Whether STA moves to AA or stays in A is, in my opinion, irrelevant. I don't like to see so many private schools dominate the state tournaments. The great thing about the tournament is that communities are represented. It's the culmination of years of association work--hours and hours of volunteer time, car pooling, tournaments, etc. I hate Edina just as much as anyone, but I certainly respect their association and their teams. When Edina or EP or Tonka are at the state tournament, entire communities (and associations) are represented--not a select group of parachioal kids. It's even more pronounced in small outstate schools. Towns shut down. Offices close. Then they come to St. Paul and they get to play a bunch of rich kids from some private school representing no association and no community. I rather have them come to the cities and just play some regular ol' rich kids. It's not about just STA--it's all of them.

When an association loses a player to a private school, the entire community loses. So, let the privates have their own tournament, or even their own section at each class. Let them have their own conference. They have chosen to remove themselves from their community's school (which is completely their own choice), why should they get to play in that community's athletic conference or tournament?

I am not bashing private schools or private education or people who choose to go that route. But if you choose to leave your town's school, then leave. Go do your own thing. But I don't think you can or should have your cake and eat it too.

Agreed. IMO, the tourney has lost some of its tradition and appeal because of its current entrants. MnMade, has a lot of good points also and at least calls it like it is, kudos to you. No need for the attacks that have taken place because of this topic. Just goes to show that the kids who go to these schools get it and understand, its the elders and parents who do not.

[deacon]

It's hard to explain what going to a school like STA is like, sure it has rules and regulations that other schools don't have/require but it also offers things that other schools don't offer. Not all 15 year old's think the same way, some do value a good education (not that you can't get good education elsewhere) and know that it is important for life. The uniforms are actually convenient, you don't have to worry about what to wear and who you are trying to impress. You get used to the regulations pretty fast and it becomes second nature soon enough. There is a lot camaraderie and sense of belonging among the student body. People forget that there is an all girl school half a block away, there is plenty of mingling between the two schools. Having no girls in class was never an issue.

I went there for 7-12, I didn't really have a choice but I loved STA from the start.

link to uniform guidelines http://www.cadets.com/page/285

[MrBoDangles]

Arguments such as this will never go away. Issues over A/AA/private schools/public schools/metro/outer-state be will never be perfectly solved. The current circumstances are NOT perfect, but they DO work (this year brought a remarkable tourney in both classes; I enjoyed every second of it). I am not convinced there is a need for change. Decisions to change things in the tourney and the classes, as they have been argued about in this thread, are not easily made because of possible negative outcomes. And, there are probably some good reasons for why some changes haven't been made by those who actually can make such decisions. So keep that in mind when speculating about what could or should be, and before lambasting the teams and the schools.
As an alumnus of STA, I would very much like to see the school opt up to AA. Someone commented earlier that there was an in-house effort to do this, but it was shot down by the administration. If the school's directors feel that it is in the best interest of the school and the student body (remember that of the 500+ kids who attend STA, only a fraction play in the hockey program) to stay in A, then I support them, and it is a decision to be respected and one that is not made out of a lack of concern for other schools. I'm sure there is and has been plenty of similar discussion at schools like Breck, Blake, etc. While there are obvious reasons why these schools should move up, and plenty of MN hockey fans advocating this, as well as a change in the tourney format, consider what could be some ramifications (+/-):
-Currently strong A programs opt up to AA and bite the dust (unlikely, but it would be unfortunate to see thriving hockey programs that encourage state-wide passion for the game fizzle out, leaving potential skaters to choose *gasp* basketball) --possibly resulting in less attention for MN hockey in general from D-I and scouts. I'm not advocating the protection of Private School X's monopoly on tourney bids for the health of the sport. It is more fun when there is a consistent cycle of good teams from all over the state playing at the "X", and when schools overcome struggling years to then gain greatness (mmm, STA hockey 1885-2003?).
-If every twin cities private school joins most of the area's public schools in AA (include out-states' Lourdes, Marshall, etc. - consistently strong teams, albeit the pool of players to draw from is smaller than a Breck), then by default the A tourney is all outer-state teams. The "State Tournament" becomes two "regional" tourneys, the classic twin cities - iron range rivalry dies, the A tourney is held at the DECC, the town of Warroad doesn't get to shut down, pack up, and head to St. Paul for a weekend, and International Falls is annexed by Canada...or have they been already?
-The seriousness of recruiting becomes SERIOUS. It was stated in a previous post that STA may have not opted up to AA because the administration did not want the reputation as just "a hockey school" (it might be too late). If the STAs and Brecks become AA contenders, Johnny Cakeater from Edina and a few of his MN Blades teammates from Eden Prairie decide they can all play together and win the "more prestigious, non-JV" AA title if they go to Blake. STA, having moved up to AA for being "too good" for 4 seasons in A, now has to ensure that its hockey program stays competitive, so the coaches recruit the more of the blossoming Lakeville feeder program. The metro's population density can ensure that cities like Lakeville will still fill a roster, but it won't be fun for the program's boosters, coaches, and Lakeville students to turn on channel 45 and watch their "cream of the crop" earn another championship banner for STA's ice arena. This might seem dramatic - cities like White Bear Lake and Wayzata have sent teams to the tourney recently, despite the school/hockey team choices of Hill-Murray and Benilde located just a carpool lane away. But also look at some quality hockey cities that were quiet for some time due to the availability of AA private school choices. Holy Angels has thrived off of Jefferson-based talent for years. Many St. Paul-area players have enrolled at Cretin and Hill hoping for the chance at a state championship. Yes, a lot of players who grow up in their city's public school systems and youth hockey programs pledge their allegiance to the public high school, the coaches, their classmates, and friends. Many of the talented players of Breck, Blake, STA, Benilde, etc. grew up fully aware that they would be attending a private high school; religion, family tradition, academic rigor, etc. always will tie some players to a school, regardless of the level of talent on the hockey team. However, the complaints of recruiting done by private school coaches that have filled this forum will only grow should more private schools begin to promote themselves as AA contenders.
-The notion of the A tournament as "JV" competition is unfair. I stated before that I think STA should opt up to AA, but that is not to disgrace the honor of a class A championship. Some posts stated that the STA championship trophy is "fake" or "plastic". Tell that to the kids who worked their tails off through overtime to win it. Tell the guys from Hermantown that it's o.k. they played their hearts out and came so close to living a dream that every kid in the state shares when they lace up their skates, because what they lost is just a "JV" trophy. I bet T.J. Oshie is pretty bummed that he and his team won the "less-significant title".
Those who think the successful private schools MUST opt up to AA need to understand the choices and decisions that are made by players, coaches, and the schools when they are forced with such a decision. I firmly believe that while there is a TREMENDOUS amount of pride in winning the class A title (and doing so multiple times), a school, such as STA, is not determined to exploit resources such as an on-campus ice facility and metro-wide enrollment potential to give the school what recently seems to some spectators as an annual opportunity to easily skate over hard-playing small town teams into "just another JV state championship".
Also, keep in mind that in the past when there was only one state champion come mid-march, the demographics of Minnesota were very different - more people lived on the range and many of the twin cities suburbs that have recently garnered tourney success were just starting to sprout hockey programs. In order for us all as hockey fans to appreciate the finer aspects of our state's favorite pastime, the notion that the tournament should be one single class should be disregarded. Unless the hockey audience is fine with seeing only 7 great games instead of 14, and fans won't mind that the only teams to travel past the center of the state could consistently be Moorhead and Duluth East - who would most likely be playing a heavy dosage of the same Edina, Eden Prairie, and Hill-Murray teams (generalized, but assessed on youth program size and previous success). Unless Breck and STA opted up and managed to territorially divide the top talent of the entire twin cities in two.
Everyone wants to see great games, but we all hope that it is our own team that is in those games. This year's tourney was a treat in both classes, and I think the tournament will continue to impress, as it has in the past, for many years to come. If it is necessary for some teams to move up, so be it, but (easy for me to say since the team I was cheering for made it) the competition needs to be stiff across the brackets to ensure that the talented and hardworking players are challenged to play at the top of their game, regardless of the class, size of school, nature of the school, or the location of the school.
To quickly dispel any finger pointing at STA - the school is nearly 130 years old, and the U.S. military-based JROTC program has been enforced for almost as long. It may seem silly, or almost offensive to some that the uniform and actions (saluting the flag, etc.) demonstrated by the cadets are traditions upheld by our great armed forces. While only a handful of kids in each class go on to serving in the U.S. military, the curriculum of the school strictly enforces a responsible code that in-part adheres to curriculum set by the U.S. Army. Many of the teachers at the school are retired vets who preach the leadership standards they demonstrated in their time of service. There are always some students that are less-serious about such rigor. But the uniform, and the tradition that comes with it, is worn with an understanding of pride - just like any other student at the "X" donning their school colors. It may seem ridiculous for a bunch of pimple-faced, hormone-driven guys to be jumping around and cheering (sometimes inappropriate things, I'm sure) in a military designated uniform, but it is not out of disrespect. We were/are all fans there to support the team, just like everyone else, but we do have to wear the uniform and try at best to uphold the traditions and values that come with it.

- Sure you enjoyed every second of the tournament. How about the teams destroyed by the recruit filled STA?

- Most of us would like to see STA move up.

- Sounds like up to 1 out of 6 students tried out for Hockey. Not a small fraction..

- Breck and Blake are a couple other schools that should make the move.

- Choose basketball? Maybe more of the 90 to try out would thrive in another setting?

- Would become a two reion tourney? There are more A teams in the metro.. Very far fetched.

- Annexed to Canada? Good one!

- "Does not want to be known as a Hockey school."????? He/They is a complete liar. He's figuring why ruin the gravy train. Yes, a liar. The only thing stopping him/them is fear.

- They would dominate in AA??? Have you ever heard of the other AA private schools in the metro? Your school would be special? Your theory is a laugher.

- STA already dismantled Lakeville S.

- It's only JV in the sense of how STA, Breck, etc gets there.

- What do you think the ice facility was built for

- "STA and Breck would divide the metro's talent if they went AA."

Very little thought put into your post.

Zero stars for a review

[larsengeno27]

West hockey, I'm sorry but times are different. The local youth hockey association isn't a feeder for the local public high school. It is a non-profit community based organization where kids learn how to play hockey. None of the kids are obligated to go to the local high school. If anything, the local high school coach has an unfair advantage because he could get heavily involved in the youth association and have alot of face time with these potential high school players. Privates don't have that luxury. Privates need to put butts in the seats to keep the school running. Of course they are going to try to get kids to come to their school.

Furthermore, lets take a look at a big high school like EP. There are a lot of good hockey players in the youth program that don't ever make the EP varsity. I think it is great that they could enroll at a private school and have a chance to play high school hockey.
Why would EP people really care if the best players are already on the EP varsity? Same with Wayzata, Mtka, etc. Kids leave for a chance to play high school hockey instead of quitting or playing junior gold. Again, good for them.

Here is something to think about:
If you were very qualified to be the CEO of your company, but didn't get the job because they chose someone else, would you stick around and be loyal because this company trained you for the past 10 years? No way would you stay. You would leave for the chance to be a CEO of another company. Think about it.

[MrBoDangles]

^^Longest first post ever.

Welcome.

Longest second post ever? I was trying to bring up some points though as to why not every private school should be "forced" into AA, and if they are, what could happen - recruit, recruit, recruit, for hockey, hockey, hockey. ----->For those who are so harshly criticizing STA - it is a private school, "an academic business". No students=No STA. Essentially every one of ~540 boys who enrolls is "RECRUITED". ONLY A FEW YEARS AGO, the hockey team had a stroke of luck - there was a crop of good pucksters at STA, especially freshman. ~50 kids (~1/10th of students) showed up for tryouts to get some ice time. The majority of these prospects (NOT at STA FOR HOCKEY, since STA puck was ~2-18 year prior) elected to play for their city squads: Lakeville, W. St. Paul, Woodbury, Edina, etc. Lots of Bantam A/B players. Along with contributions from University of St. Thomas who shares the ice, an STA alum drops heavy $ - ice arena is built, new coaches come, new season, new life. Talented Bantams now in line for most of varsity and JV spots. Team gets better, success ensues. Word is passed around private (some public, too) grade school pucksters that STA isn't a dead-end for hockey anymore. More players enroll. A few are *more than likely* recruited for hockey. Tisk, tisk, right? (AHA had already blown the lid off this practice anyways) Team gets better, makes STATE! Next year team WINS STATE! Now you have a certified puck program at a school that has been promoting academic excellence, religion, leadership since 1885 (YES, it is a MILITARY school - Originally named St. Thomas Military Acad. JROTC is mandatory for all, even puckheads. The school receives money from the U.S. Army to have/promote this style of education. Students are in no way obligated to military service post grad, but each year several do via appointments to Naval Acad., Air Force, colleges w/ROTC). All Cadets must wear hair short (severely hinders good flow under the bucket) and keep proper uniform. Mothers like this. Mothers talk. They talk about this at Edina, Eagan, etc. Peewee A games. When high school arrives, former Peewee A players enroll at STA because mother wants hair trimmed and strong academics. The boys don't fuss because guess what? STA has hockey trophies now. STA Cadets are going D-1 now. That is how it happened, plain and simple.
STA is not Shattuck, boys do not leave Cali to come play puck. Administration does not want unruly, yet talented puckheads - more Adam Banks, less Fulton Reid. Nor does STA intend to become "just a hockey school". Now STA is very good at hockey, good enough that it is time to play up a class? Many think so. Many know so. BUT WAIT! What happens to STA military prep school's identity if they go to AA? Does it become a pit-stop for puck-playing, trophy-chasing, to-be-juniors-playing, D-1 scholarship-earning boys who leave after 2 years/state championship? Not the reputation the school desires for itself in the 120 something year of existence. Not when STA's endowment allows for financial assistance that pays for nearly half of tuition for Cadets who need it. -------->So there you have it - a private school assigned to class A by MSHSL for hockey years ago all of the sudden has a program succeeding so quickly, they didn't know what to expect - Stay A? Go AA? Can STA keep up in AA? Is it just a few seasons of great talent and wins, and then AA is too much to handle? Is it unfair that STA wins a lot in A? Sure there's recruiting, but it is a private school - STA must convince parents/sons why they should spend $$$ to go to STA, not Benilde or Hill, or stay home and play with the Bantam crew. To many outsiders it may seem like bullying and trophy chasing, but to the STA community it has been nice to win championships/gain attention for the school after 100 years of hockey nothingness. There is no "feeder" program for us - not for football, or soccer, not for hockey. Every student-athlete is essentially recruited. It's an academic business. Right now "business" is going well and many talented pucksters want in. But unlike Eden Prairie or Edina, Hermantown or Duluth East, Thief River Falls or New Ulm, if STA does not stay relatively "hot" or possibly flops in AA, the talent pool can evaporate rather quickly, almost as quickly as it started. It's the same for any private school. I'm not searching for pity, and I would like to see the Cadets (and other strong A programs) compete AA, but I figured this could give some explanation to those who see STA as bullish program. We have 3 A titles since 2006, so don't shed any tears for us, but if a miscalculated decision is made that threatens the institution's success and reputation, it may be another 100 years until the next state title.

Just a bunch of contradicting wind....... and yes, they are afraid to flop...... So they come up with the lie to hide behind.

[7A22A]

AA or a seperate league would be fine with me for private schools. I would be a little more sympathetic to the Hermantown opinions on this post if their whole system was not peppered with "open enrollment" players. Including some of the top players.

A player can be open enrolled and still have been in the Youth Hockey Association for years. There is no one on the High School team who hasn't worked their way up through the Hockey Association.

Yes, and I agree with this. Let me say the 2007 team was legit. If you wanted to play for the HS team, you lived or moved into Hermantown. Now there are players / students that come into the school, but never move from their residencial tax paying school district (yes, on this HS team). All according to the MSHSL or waivers under youth hockey. With all the bashing of STA and bringing in players and the hate. So be it. But, some public schools do it to some extent. These players are coming in (new) at the Bantam, PeeWee, Squirt and Mite levels. Not one player at each level, but players. Maybe peppered was a poor word selection. Let's go with numerous, many or several at the lower levels and a few at the top of the system that have now worked their way through. STA will not be moving up, so Hermantown might as well accept taking them on for the next few years with some "outside" players of their own. I'm guessing this thread will get shut down soon.

[MNmade]

Question for MNmade: If STA or any private school, only competed against other private schools, would their hockey program (or soccer, or football) attract students? I suspect the answer is No. The hockey and football programs at STA are recruiting tools.

If someone chooses to go to a private school because of academics, religion, or morals, that is a family decision. If they go to a private school for athletics, then an entire association and high school athletic program has been hoodwinked.

I have never seen the head coach from STA, BSM, Blake, et al show up at an association's Squirt C practice to give a chalk talk or run a few drills. I have never heard of a private school's varsity players hosting Mite Night. Maybe they do, I've just never heard of it.

With very rare exception, an association feeds to one high school. When a player is cherry picked, all the time and effort of the association to develop that player, has been swiped. If the privates want to have an athletic program, let them develop the talent on their own dime, with their own coaches and volunteers instead of using my time and my money.

You are 100% correct that STA uses its hockey program to recruit kids. Other schools that use successful hockey programs to recruit kids would be, well, all of the schools that are good at hockey. I'm unaware of any waiver that 11 year old Squirts sign requiring them to play for the public high school. By default will most of them end up there? Absolutely. The banners of section, of conference, or maybe state champs hanging in the arenas where kids practice all make it pretty clear to a 13 year old boy that he is going to do whatever it takes be playing varsity for his town someday soon. What more motivation do you need as a 13 year old kid than that? For kids who play in strong youth programs, there is plenty of "recruiting" for the high school team that goes on. Kids sign up to do the varsity coach's fall clinic where he can instruct and observe a large group of Peewees who are hoping to make a good impression. But what happens when you are a 2nd liner on one of the two Wayzata Bantam B teams? Looks like there are roughly 5 left-wingers in your grade that are "better" than you. I don't think Wayzata Varsity (or any team for that matter) has room on the bench for 5 left-wingers. It's kids like this who make up private school rosters for the very reason that they are solid players, developed in quality programs, but varsity rosters are only 20 spots deep, and two of those spots are for kids who eat slapshots. But would you say that the youth program was "hoodwinked" because a fairly talented product of the program realized his chances of playing hockey are better at a private school? And what many critics of private schools fail to realize is that a lot of kids, who all played youth hockey somewhere, were just flat out going to the private school from day 1. Their parents invested just as much time and money as every other parent on the Peewee team, but their plan was different. I wouldn't call that hoodwinking either, if not in their community, where else would they play and learn the game of hockey? These parents all paid taxes for the civic center/ice arena to operate, too. And then sometimes good players burn out, and others move beyond MN high school hockey and play in the juniors or tryout for the US National Team - communities probably invested plenty of time on these talented players and they skip town. Hoodwinked? Maybe, but hopefully in that case you will be able to eventually add the player's name to the list of D-1 hockey studs the youth program has helped produce.

[youngblood08]

a friend was telling me he read an article about the Hill/WBL game and it had Lectner saying "How he felt the pressure to win that section game....because TEACHERS jobs were at stake." he went on to say "They need to be successful in hockey otherwise kids will chose to go some where else and enrollment would drop."

Then I drive by STA and see that big ice arena, let us not forget they have a bantam team also...they have been fighting District 8 for the past few years trying to get an A/B Bantam team allowed into play a District 8 schedule. Who was running that fight? Sounds to me like you are known as a hockey school already and are willingly making room for kids that play hockey. Let's not even get into the FHIT program and the STA ties.

Now lets talk about how the Hill and STA JV teams did this season? How about the 40 kids that didn't cut it to make the V/JV rosters? Where did they go play?


This one caught my eye,

But what happens when you are a 2nd liner on one of the two Wayzata Bantam B teams? Looks like there are roughly 5 left-wingers in your grade that are "better" than you. I don't think Wayzata Varsity (or any team for that matter) has room on the bench for 5 left-wingers. It's kids like this who make up private school rosters for the very reason that they are solid players, developed in quality programs, but varsity rosters are only 20 spots deep, and two of those spots are for kids who eat slapshots.

The problem is that these schools are getting the top left wing, centers, defensemen and goalies......not the 5th kid down on B2 bantams.

I do not have a problem with STA, think the uni's are classy. Just a level playing field for all would be nice. Publics run what they got..Privates run what they can get weather it's by recruiting, education, tradition or family ties. If it is okay for New Ulm to be beaten 13-2 its okay for STA and others to step up and take the same risk at being humbled by a better team, but based on how they did vs AA teams....I don't think too many parents will be up late coddling a broken spirit after such a similar loss.

[MrBoDangles]

Question for MNmade: If STA or any private school, only competed against other private schools, would their hockey program (or soccer, or football) attract students? I suspect the answer is No. The hockey and football programs at STA are recruiting tools.

If someone chooses to go to a private school because of academics, religion, or morals, that is a family decision. If they go to a private school for athletics, then an entire association and high school athletic program has been hoodwinked.

I have never seen the head coach from STA, BSM, Blake, et al show up at an association's Squirt C practice to give a chalk talk or run a few drills. I have never heard of a private school's varsity players hosting Mite Night. Maybe they do, I've just never heard of it.

With very rare exception, an association feeds to one high school. When a player is cherry picked, all the time and effort of the association to develop that player, has been swiped. If the privates want to have an athletic program, let them develop the talent on their own dime, with their own coaches and volunteers instead of using my time and my money.

You are 100% correct that STA uses its hockey program to recruit kids. Other schools that use successful hockey programs to recruit kids would be, well, all of the schools that are good at hockey. I'm unaware of any waiver that 11 year old Squirts sign requiring them to play for the public high school. By default will most of them end up there? Absolutely. The banners of section, of conference, or maybe state champs hanging in the arenas where kids practice all make it pretty clear to a 13 year old boy that he is going to do whatever it takes be playing varsity for his town someday soon. What more motivation do you need as a 13 year old kid than that? For kids who play in strong youth programs, there is plenty of "recruiting" for the high school team that goes on. Kids sign up to do the varsity coach's fall clinic where he can instruct and observe a large group of Peewees who are hoping to make a good impression. But what happens when you are a 2nd liner on one of the two Wayzata Bantam B teams? Looks like there are roughly 5 left-wingers in your grade that are "better" than you. I don't think Wayzata Varsity (or any team for that matter) has room on the bench for 5 left-wingers. It's kids like this who make up private school rosters for the very reason that they are solid players, developed in quality programs, but varsity rosters are only 20 spots deep, and two of those spots are for kids who eat slapshots. But would you say that the youth program was "hoodwinked" because a fairly talented product of the program realized his chances of playing hockey are better at a private school? And what many critics of private schools fail to realize is that a lot of kids, who all played youth hockey somewhere, were just flat out going to the private school from day 1. Their parents invested just as much time and money as every other parent on the Peewee team, but their plan was different. I wouldn't call that hoodwinking either, if not in their community, where else would they play and learn the game of hockey? These parents all paid taxes for the civic center/ice arena to operate, too. And then sometimes good players burn out, and others move beyond MN high school hockey and play in the juniors or tryout for the US National Team - communities probably invested plenty of time on these talented players and they skip town. Hoodwinked? Maybe, but hopefully in that case you will be able to eventually add the player's name to the list of D-1 hockey studs the youth program has helped produce.

I get it now The private schools (STA, Breck, Hill Murray, Benilde etc) are for the large association B players.

And I can't believe those community based HS coaches trying to recruit kids by having STP programs.............

Are you for real?

[HawkeyPower]

AA or a seperate league would be fine with me for private schools. I would be a little more sympathetic to the Hermantown opinions on this post if their whole system was not peppered with "open enrollment" players. Including some of the top players.

A player can be open enrolled and still have been in the Youth Hockey Association for years. There is no one on the High School team who hasn't worked their way up through the Hockey Association.

Yes, and I agree with this. Let me say the 2007 team was legit. If you wanted to play for the HS team, you lived or moved into Hermantown. Now there are players / students that come into the school, but never move from their residencial tax paying school district (yes, on this HS team). All according to the MSHSL or waivers under youth hockey. With all the bashing of STA and bringing in players and the hate. So be it. But, some public schools do it to some extent. These players are coming in (new) at the Bantam, PeeWee, Squirt and Mite levels. Not one player at each level, but players. Maybe peppered was a poor word selection. Let's go with numerous, many or several at the lower levels and a few at the top of the system that have now worked their way through. STA will not be moving up, so Hermantown might as well accept taking them on for the next few years with some "outside" players of their own. I'm guessing this thread will get shut down soon.

7a22a. I have posted earlier I could care less if STA or Breck moves up or not. I think we need a Evil Empire or someone to root against. I think that should give the boys something to work a little harder to try and beat them the next year. For the people that say its not fair, lifes not fair, move on. In regards to the numerous kids that are open enrolled, I do agree with you. But most if not all. have worked their way through or will work their way through our association. There is a big difference in going to a school as a 10th grader just to play hockey, then open enrolling when your younger and playing through the association.

[MrBoDangles]

A player can be open enrolled and still have been in the Youth Hockey Association for years. There is no one on the High School team who hasn't worked their way up through the Hockey Association.

Yes, and I agree with this. Let me say the 2007 team was legit. If you wanted to play for the HS team, you lived or moved into Hermantown. Now there are players / students that come into the school, but never move from their residencial tax paying school district (yes, on this HS team). All according to the MSHSL or waivers under youth hockey. With all the bashing of STA and bringing in players and the hate. So be it. But, some public schools do it to some extent. These players are coming in (new) at the Bantam, PeeWee, Squirt and Mite levels. Not one player at each level, but players. Maybe peppered was a poor word selection. Let's go with numerous, many or several at the lower levels and a few at the top of the system that have now worked their way through. STA will not be moving up, so Hermantown might as well accept taking them on for the next few years with some "outside" players of their own. I'm guessing this thread will get shut down soon.

7a22a. I have posted earlier I could care less if STA or Breck moves up or not. I think we need a Evil Empire or someone to root against. I think that should give the boys something to work a little harder to try and beat them the next year. For the people that say its not fair, lifes not fair, move on. In regards to the numerous kids that are open enrolled, I do agree with you. But most if not all. have worked their way through or will work their way through our association. There is a big difference in going to a school as a 10th grader just to play hockey, then open enrolling when your younger and playing through the association.

"lifes not fair, move on." This must be a easy statement to make being that you're from Hermantown?

I suppose STA not moving up keeps the pressure of you guys.

[The X]

A player can be open enrolled and still have been in the Youth Hockey Association for years. There is no one on the High School team who hasn't worked their way up through the Hockey Association.

Yes, and I agree with this. Let me say the 2007 team was legit. If you wanted to play for the HS team, you lived or moved into Hermantown. Now there are players / students that come into the school, but never move from their residencial tax paying school district (yes, on this HS team). All according to the MSHSL or waivers under youth hockey. With all the bashing of STA and bringing in players and the hate. So be it. But, some public schools do it to some extent. These players are coming in (new) at the Bantam, PeeWee, Squirt and Mite levels. Not one player at each level, but players. Maybe peppered was a poor word selection. Let's go with numerous, many or several at the lower levels and a few at the top of the system that have now worked their way through. STA will not be moving up, so Hermantown might as well accept taking them on for the next few years with some "outside" players of their own. I'm guessing this thread will get shut down soon.

7a22a. I have posted earlier I could care less if STA or Breck moves up or not. I think we need a Evil Empire or someone to root against. I think that should give the boys something to work a little harder to try and beat them the next year. For the people that say its not fair, lifes not fair, move on. In regards to the numerous kids that are open enrolled, I do agree with you. But most if not all. have worked their way through or will work their way through our association. There is a big difference in going to a school as a 10th grader just to play hockey, then open enrolling when your younger and playing through the association.

So, "lifes not fair move on" when is your team going to move on and play Rapids and East for a section title? Obviously your team has a great youth program and can play at that level, when are you guys going to step up and play the teams in sections that you should be playing? Rogers to go to state, give me a break.

[HShockeywatcher]

a friend was telling me he read an article about the Hill/WBL game and it had Lectner saying "How he felt the pressure to win that section game....because TEACHERS jobs were at stake." he went on to say "They need to be successful in hockey otherwise kids will chose to go some where else and enrollment would drop."

Then I drive by STA and see that big ice arena, let us not forget they have a bantam team also...they have been fighting District 8 for the past few years trying to get an A/B Bantam team allowed into play a District 8 schedule. Who was running that fight? Sounds to me like you are known as a hockey school already and are willingly making room for kids that play hockey. Let's not even get into the FHIT program and the STA ties.

Now lets talk about how the Hill and STA JV teams did this season? How about the 40 kids that didn't cut it to make the V/JV rosters? Where did they go play?


This one caught my eye,

But what happens when you are a 2nd liner on one of the two Wayzata Bantam B teams? Looks like there are roughly 5 left-wingers in your grade that are "better" than you. I don't think Wayzata Varsity (or any team for that matter) has room on the bench for 5 left-wingers. It's kids like this who make up private school rosters for the very reason that they are solid players, developed in quality programs, but varsity rosters are only 20 spots deep, and two of those spots are for kids who eat slapshots.

The problem is that these schools are getting the top left wing, centers, defensemen and goalies......not the 5th kid down on B2 bantams.

I do not have a problem with STA, think the uni's are classy. Just a level playing field for all would be nice. Publics run what they got..Privates run what they can get weather it's by recruiting, education, tradition or family ties. If it is okay for New Ulm to be beaten 13-2 its okay for STA and others to step up and take the same risk at being humbled by a better team, but based on how they did vs AA teams....I don't think too many parents will be up late coddling a broken spirit after such a similar loss.

It is funny that people keep posting that St Thomas should be a AA program while I haven't read a single post of anyone saying they want them in A.

You do know that New Ulm is a private school co-op, right?

After winning 6 of 8 football titles at the 4A level, Totino Grace decided to move up to the 5A level, despite declining enrollment. I doubt if St Thomas makes it 5 of 8 in two years they will stay down.

In A there are 3 sections with 1 private school and 2 sections with a few. In AA there are 3 sections with 1 and 1 section with 2. I suspect it is simply wanting something to complain about, but do you all really want the small tournament free of these schools and them all to be in the AA tournament?

What catches my eye about team sports like hockey is that they have a competitive advantage if the kids are growing up in the same system with the same player for years. If you cannot get those kids to stay at your really good AA program and are driving across town and forking out $ to play for an A program, my question is what you did wrong to make them leave.

If you leave a company for some reason, you look for one that is a better fit for you. It is the obligation of the company to make itself appealing to you for you to stay, not your commitment to them.

[HawkeyPower]

So, "lifes not fair move on" when is your team going to move on and play Rapids and East for a section title? Obviously your team has a great youth program and can play at that level, when are you guys going to step up and play the teams in sections that you should be playing? Rogers to go to state, give me a break.[/quote]

Howie,
As soon as they have more than one State title and maybe win 2 out of 3 I am all for it. Besides Roseau in 99 and 07, name one public team that has moved up since the change to A and AA and won a State title. Rapids has made it to two finals in 06 and 07. Even BSM made the move and have had little success (3rd place 2008). Roeseau only has to play Moorehead to go to State virtually every year. What purpose would Hermanotwn have to move to AA. TO be able to say we play BIG BOY hockey. Yeah. If the team decides to move up then so be it. Play BIG boy hockey and get to State once every 10 years. I'll pass. Hermantown played 4 BIG BOY games this year and went 1-3. Move them up!
And the Lifes not fair statement is about not crying about the Privates. They are who they are and will always be there.

[interestedbystander]

Furthermore, lets take a look at a big high school like EP. There are a lot of good hockey players in the youth program that don't ever make the EP varsity. I think it is great that they could enroll at a private school and have a chance to play high school hockey.
Why would EP people really care if the best players are already on the EP varsity? Same with Wayzata, Mtka, etc. Kids leave for a chance to play high school hockey instead of quitting or playing junior gold. Again, good for them.

Here is something to think about:
If you were very qualified to be the CEO of your company, but didn't get the job because they chose someone else, would you stick around and be loyal because this company trained you for the past 10 years? No way would you stay. You would leave for the chance to be a CEO of another company. Think about it.

Very nicely stated. The number of cherry picked top players on a private school team probably pales in comparison to kids that just want to play hockey and got the shaft, either from the association politics or the high school coach. I wouldn't stick around either.

[nipeshow18]

As much as I hate seeing private schools (particularly STA) win the state title in all reality we need them. Can you imagine how many kids would be denied the chance to compete in high school athletics if it weren't for private schools? I am all for the top private schools moving up and testing their worth; if a co-op teams has to take the enrollment of every school they draw from I believe private schools should too. It is the only way to make it fair.

In earlier posts it was also suggested that private schools have their own conference and section; for one, how is that even feasible, and two, why would anyone want that? You really think Rochester Lourdes and Duluth Marshall could play in the same conference or section? What a complete waste of time and money. And by having private schools in sections with public schools it makes rivalries that much more intense, and makes it even sweeter when a WBL knocks off the #1 ranked Pioneers.

[2good4u]

So, "lifes not fair move on" when is your team going to move on and play Rapids and East for a section title? Obviously your team has a great youth program and can play at that level, when are you guys going to step up and play the teams in sections that you should be playing? Rogers to go to state, give me a break.

Howie,
As soon as they have more than one State title and maybe win 2 out of 3 I am all for it. Besides Roseau in 99 and 07, name one public team that has moved up since the change to A and AA and won a State title. Rapids has made it to two finals in 06 and 07. Even BSM made the move and have had little success (3rd place 2008). Roeseau only has to play Moorehead to go to State virtually every year. What purpose would Hermanotwn have to move to AA. TO be able to say we play BIG BOY hockey. Yeah. If the team decides to move up then so be it. Play BIG boy hockey and get to State once every 10 years. I'll pass. Hermantown played 4 BIG BOY games this year and went 1-3. Move them up!
And the Lifes not fair statement is about not crying about the Privates. They are who they are and will always be there.[/quote]

naw htown should pass on moving up to AA because east would try to dodge them by trying to drop to single A, and anyways it would be way to convienent for marshall and denfield if they did too, so i think they should stay in A to continue to flex the public school muscle against STA and Breck

[muckandgrind]

So, "lifes not fair move on" when is your team going to move on and play Rapids and East for a section title? Obviously your team has a great youth program and can play at that level, when are you guys going to step up and play the teams in sections that you should be playing? Rogers to go to state, give me a break.

Howie,
As soon as they have more than one State title and maybe win 2 out of 3 I am all for it. Besides Roseau in 99 and 07, name one public team that has moved up since the change to A and AA and won a State title. Rapids has made it to two finals in 06 and 07. Even BSM made the move and have had little success (3rd place 2008). Roeseau only has to play Moorehead to go to State virtually every year. What purpose would Hermanotwn have to move to AA. TO be able to say we play BIG BOY hockey. Yeah. If the team decides to move up then so be it. Play BIG boy hockey and get to State once every 10 years. I'll pass. Hermantown played 4 BIG BOY games this year and went 1-3. Move them up!
And the Lifes not fair statement is about not crying about the Privates. They are who they are and will always be there.

[/quote]

So, according to you, a team should play at the level which gives them the easiest road to winning the State title? Really?

We really need to get rid of this two class system. It used to be MAKING it to the Tournament was the goal for most teams....now I guess just making it isn't enough. Now, teams should be playing at the level that gives them the easiest shot at winning it. Hell, why don't we go to a five class system so teams like Crookston and Como also have a shot at a trophy?

The whole novelty of "making it to State" has been diluted withe the two class system. "Making it to State" doesn't mean as much when you are playing in the "B" tournament in an 1/2 empty building.

BTW - I voted "no"....I don't want any more classes. We have too many classes as it is.

[2good4u]

keep it at 2 classes, no need for more or less, and to shut everyone up who wants just a one class tourney why not just have the two champions play saturday,

[muckandgrind]

keep it at 2 classes, no need for more or less, and to shut everyone up who wants just a one class tourney why not just have the two champions play saturday,

So........game time at when? Midnight? Or do you mean that the two teams play on Sunday?