Lourdes 7
Alexandria 0
Breck 6
New Ulm 0
Lourdes plays for 5th for the thrid year in a row, New Ulm can't catch a break in the draw for the second year in a row.
A Consolation
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Re: A Consolation
No matter who 3A sends or who they play they won't get a break. It's a matter of how out of place do they look?goldy313 wrote:Lourdes 7
Alexandria 0
Breck 6
New Ulm 0
Lourdes plays for 5th for the thrid year in a row, New Ulm can't catch a break in the draw for the second year in a row.
there needs to be a few teams from the south metro put in this section. it's embarrassingly bad for class A hockey. why is it ok for central minnesota teams to be put with extreme northern sections, but not ok for south metro teams to be put in the section with new ulm..every year they are the ugly duckling
Who raises their stick after scoring an empty netter?
Yep. Something has to be done.SCC2009 wrote:there needs to be a few teams from the south metro put in this section. it's embarrassingly bad for class A hockey. why is it ok for central minnesota teams to be put with extreme northern sections, but not ok for south metro teams to be put in the section with new ulm..every year they are the ugly duckling
I'm a follower of 1A, and 3A hockey. Love the teams, but readily admit they simply can't produce competitive representatives to the greatest schoolboy tourney in the country. And it won't be changing or improving significantly, any time soon. (Sending Lourdes every year isn't appealing either).
There are a ton of teams who basically play "B" level hockey out in these areas and they aren't going to stop playing, or drop their programs.
I'm not asking for another class so little Johnny can get a medal. I think this tourney has every right to expect better. I know there was talk at one time about making pie-shaped sections where almost every section would include a thin slice of Mpls-St Paul, meaning even the most outstate teams (in southern Mn) would have to go thru solid programs in the metro to get thru sections. Not sure why they dropped that idea, perhaps travel costs, etc.
One idea I never hear discussed is to maybe think about following the way HS Football handles its playoffs? By that I mean - by the time you get to the final 2 or 4 teams in each class, they have had to really thin out. You rarely end up with obvious mismatches. 3A could have a champion, but then that champion would have to get through at least one serious program to get to the true state tourney.
Believe me, we realize how bad we look out here, but all we can do is play by the MSHSL rules. Rules that really, really need to be changed.
Every once in awhile, these areas WILL produce a legitimately decent team. Mankato West had one recently, Albert Lea a couple before that. (LFalls in 6A is another example) And when that happens again, they can still get there (and will, if they are good enough). Somethings got to change right now, though.
Lets all hope the MSHSL sees that.
p.s. I realize the football playoff have plenty of detractors, too, I'm just saying hockey has to look at something that works. When you settle in to watch the football finals, you almost never see an overmatched team participating at the highest level. Hockey has to be that way, too.
The football anaolgy doesn't work because no matter where you are in Minnesota football starts the same day. It's the one team sport that hasn't become a year around grind, therefore parity is more of a norm.
FWIW New Ulm and Breck had a pretty competitive game through 2 periods. If They played Alex, Lourdes, Hibbing, or any other class A team outside of STA or Hermantown I don't think they'd win but at least would be a good game. The difference between the haves and have nots in A hockey is really striking.
Would changing the sections help? I don't really think that would be a good thing because we'd end up with a tournament made up of 6-7 private schools with a team from NW Minnesota and possibly a range team if Duluth Marshall gets eliminated. If 2 teams were in AA; Breck and STA, you'd have a more competitive A tournament. The idea for a 2 class tournament was for the New Ulm's, Little Falls, and teams like that, not for metro private all star teams.
FWIW New Ulm and Breck had a pretty competitive game through 2 periods. If They played Alex, Lourdes, Hibbing, or any other class A team outside of STA or Hermantown I don't think they'd win but at least would be a good game. The difference between the haves and have nots in A hockey is really striking.
Would changing the sections help? I don't really think that would be a good thing because we'd end up with a tournament made up of 6-7 private schools with a team from NW Minnesota and possibly a range team if Duluth Marshall gets eliminated. If 2 teams were in AA; Breck and STA, you'd have a more competitive A tournament. The idea for a 2 class tournament was for the New Ulm's, Little Falls, and teams like that, not for metro private all star teams.
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east hockey
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Exactly.goldy313 wrote:The football anaolgy doesn't work because no matter where you are in Minnesota football starts the same day. It's the one team sport that hasn't become a year around grind, therefore parity is more of a norm.
FWIW New Ulm and Breck had a pretty competitive game through 2 periods. If They played Alex, Lourdes, Hibbing, or any other class A team outside of STA or Hermantown I don't think they'd win but at least would be a good game. The difference between the haves and have nots in A hockey is really striking.
Would changing the sections help? I don't really think that would be a good thing because we'd end up with a tournament made up of 6-7 private schools with a team from NW Minnesota and possibly a range team if Duluth Marshall gets eliminated. If 2 teams were in AA; Breck and STA, you'd have a more competitive A tournament. The idea for a 2 class tournament was for the New Ulm's, Little Falls, and teams like that, not for metro private all star teams.
Lee
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I think the point about the haves and have nots is great. From what I can see the places where year around hockey is readily available and relatively cheap are doing well. The metro area with all of their year around ice sheets and the Duluth area with it's year around hockey are pulling away. Back in the day when hockey was a 6 months out of the year deal (give or take a little bit) the smaller teams from smaller towns like New Ulm could compete since their kids were getting pretty much the same ice time and training as the rest of the state. Now that hockey has shifted to be a year around occupation for kids all the way down to the squirt levels in some cases the kids who do not have those opportunities or who choose not to pursue them are going to fall on hard times. I think that if you look across the board it is not just a high school deal it starts at the youth levels and goes up.goldy313 wrote:The football anaolgy doesn't work because no matter where you are in Minnesota football starts the same day. It's the one team sport that hasn't become a year around grind, therefore parity is more of a norm.
FWIW New Ulm and Breck had a pretty competitive game through 2 periods. If They played Alex, Lourdes, Hibbing, or any other class A team outside of STA or Hermantown I don't think they'd win but at least would be a good game. The difference between the haves and have nots in A hockey is really striking.
Would changing the sections help? I don't really think that would be a good thing because we'd end up with a tournament made up of 6-7 private schools with a team from NW Minnesota and possibly a range team if Duluth Marshall gets eliminated. If 2 teams were in AA; Breck and STA, you'd have a more competitive A tournament. The idea for a 2 class tournament was for the New Ulm's, Little Falls, and teams like that, not for metro private all star teams.
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TheSiouxSuck
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Agreed. New Ulms top players could play (not saying they're better or anything but they can at least skate with) STA, its just after I'd say their top 3 kids its a big dropoff in depth.pucker52 wrote:How could the goalie for Breck get a shutout the morning after he couldn't stop a beachball the night before? Even St Thomas didn't shut out New Ulm.
In watching the New Ulm/St Thomas game it was clear that depth is the big difference between the metro and outstate class A teams.
I'm going to say it again, unless the MSHSL gets rid of seeding you're going to have blowouts like this every opening day. If it had been random section vs section assignments I actually think a possible New Ulm/Alexandria would have been a highly entertaining game (despite it obviously not being as fast as say a hermantown/breck game).
I know it would never happen and its pretty far fetched, but I think that this would have to be the best idea:
Have section assignments as we do now. At the end of the season have some kind of ranking or voting for each class ranking the top 8 teams. Those teams then get placed into sections at random as a number 1 seed.
That way all the top teams have a shot of making the tournement, it would eliminate teams such as New Ulm making the tourney barring a huge upset, and you get to keep the the sections together for the most part so all the teams arent traveling everywhere.
Have section assignments as we do now. At the end of the season have some kind of ranking or voting for each class ranking the top 8 teams. Those teams then get placed into sections at random as a number 1 seed.
That way all the top teams have a shot of making the tournement, it would eliminate teams such as New Ulm making the tourney barring a huge upset, and you get to keep the the sections together for the most part so all the teams arent traveling everywhere.
Come to think of it...scc and sauk rapids would have a shorter drive to the 3a final than 5a in most yearsSCC2009 wrote:there needs to be a few teams from the south metro put in this section. it's embarrassingly bad for class A hockey. why is it ok for central minnesota teams to be put with extreme northern sections, but not ok for south metro teams to be put in the section with new ulm..every year they are the ugly duckling
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GordonBombay99
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Could even put Willmar into 3A, that would add some competition.BobSaget wrote:Come to think of it...scc and sauk rapids would have a shorter drive to the 3a final than 5a in most yearsSCC2009 wrote:there needs to be a few teams from the south metro put in this section. it's embarrassingly bad for class A hockey. why is it ok for central minnesota teams to be put with extreme northern sections, but not ok for south metro teams to be put in the section with new ulm..every year they are the ugly duckling
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windtomyback
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Agreed 100 percent. Hit the nail right on the head with this post.goldy313 wrote:The football anaolgy doesn't work because no matter where you are in Minnesota football starts the same day. It's the one team sport that hasn't become a year around grind, therefore parity is more of a norm.
FWIW New Ulm and Breck had a pretty competitive game through 2 periods. If They played Alex, Lourdes, Hibbing, or any other class A team outside of STA or Hermantown I don't think they'd win but at least would be a good game. The difference between the haves and have nots in A hockey is really striking.
Would changing the sections help? I don't really think that would be a good thing because we'd end up with a tournament made up of 6-7 private schools with a team from NW Minnesota and possibly a range team if Duluth Marshall gets eliminated. If 2 teams were in AA; Breck and STA, you'd have a more competitive A tournament. The idea for a 2 class tournament was for the New Ulm's, Little Falls, and teams like that, not for metro private all star teams.
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MNHockey75
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Koop is better than Narverud IMO.Goal wrote:3rd place game
Thief River Falls 2
Hibbing 0
after 2- Riley Soderstrom has both Prowler goals. TRF is also playing their other goalie today, not a huge suprise as he is a senior and split time during the regular season.
If this game is any indicator, STA will walk over Hermantown. STA made TRF look like a JV team, and TRF just shutout a Hibbing team that put up a four spot on Hermantown.
Championship prediction:
STA 5, Hermantown 2
2001 & 2006 State Participant
16 team 1 tourney. All 8 section winners seeded 1-8. All section runner-ups host a 1 game play in with the 8 highest ranked remaining teams. Some strong sections could have more than 1 or 2 teams in the play-in games.
1 champ. No excuses. Tourney includes Bigs, Smalls and Privates. Packed house at the X all weekend.
Just need to get 45 to go H.D.
1 champ. No excuses. Tourney includes Bigs, Smalls and Privates. Packed house at the X all weekend.
Just need to get 45 to go H.D.
ICE23 wrote:I know it would never happen and its pretty far fetched, but I think that this would have to be the best idea:
Have section assignments as we do now. At the end of the season have some kind of ranking or voting for each class ranking the top 8 teams. Those teams then get placed into sections at random as a number 1 seed.
That way all the top teams have a shot of making the tournement, it would eliminate teams such as New Ulm making the tourney barring a huge upset, and you get to keep the the sections together for the most part so all the teams arent traveling everywhere.
