InigoMontoya wrote:It really isn't that hard, people. In our area the ref can communicate those teams with which he or she has a conflict. If a ref has a little sister playing on the hometown 10UB team, then he discloses that information, and the scheduler puts him on the ice for game other than hometown 10UB.
Are associations really scheduling refs without telling them what teams they'll be reffing?
Are refs really so desperate for the $25 that they would try to sneak onto the ice of their kid's game?
How is the coach supposed to be able to lay into the guy about an off-sides call if he's related to his left wing?
A kid can't ref his sisters 10U game? A ref "sneaks" onto his kids game...
InigoMontoya wrote:It really isn't that hard, people. In our area the ref can communicate those teams with which he or she has a conflict. If a ref has a little sister playing on the hometown 10UB team, then he discloses that information, and the scheduler puts him on the ice for game other than hometown 10UB.
Are associations really scheduling refs without telling them what teams they'll be reffing?
Are refs really so desperate for the $25 that they would try to sneak onto the ice of their kid's game?
How is the coach supposed to be able to lay into the guy about an off-sides call if he's related to his left wing?
A kid can't ref his sisters 10U game? A ref "sneaks" onto his kids game...
Ingo... your not from a small town are you.
Yes, I am. And a bantam-aged kid should not be reffing his little sister's game. Somebody else can ref that game; he can ref the squirt B game. If you've only got two refs in your town, then I'd blame that on yahoos that have crowded your board for 10 or more years driving them away.
We have lots of refs. We do get an occasional complaint either from a fan or sometimes from a ref back at a fan... Never got a complaint claiming nepotism.
We are simply in two different mindsets. I never will get it. You seem to consistently assume ill will from refs, coaches, boards... long hard life?
My college age son used to ref his kid sisters games all the time, never a complaint or even funny look from the coach, and she was competitive played college hockey in your face coach (as girls coaches come).
Never a complaint for the other team either.
The complaints we did get, and we got a few, involved our local refs being hard on our local kids. I did see that. The bantam kid with a temper that got special attention. The local guys all know him and have pretty much had it up to here... Never bothered me much, you have to earn that reputation.
Last edited by hocmom on Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
I agree. Why put anybody through that when a better option is available? The exception, of course, would be hocmom's kid; he should be able to ref whichever games he pleases, he is, after all, a board member's kid.
"oh, you don't want me, I say it like it is"
"they won't let me on that board"
"I bowl on Monday nights"
"I am already on the board at the Eagles"
"If I join the board I will have to make good on all my wild ass ideas"
What makes you so sure that I'm not on the board? Slugging it out every meeting with geniuses like you. Trying to convince another board member, who had a daddy work his butt off to build a successful business, to turn it over to junior that has never had to work a full day in his life, that the kids need to work hard to get better, for more than 30/40/50 hours a season as mites/squirts/peewees, rather than making a deal to get your kid on the A team without the hard work. Or telling another board member that it's great that his family handed him the keys to their business, as well, but please don't make comments like "hockey is a rich man's game" just because you can dip into your bottomless pockets, let's try to make it affordable for anyone that really wants to play. Or telling a board member that has never played a day of organized sports in his life, "yes, I agree, the kids should have the opportunity to be multi-sport athletes for as long as they wish to exercise that option, but that skating is not a natural movement that kids get better at by playing baseball - they need to skate". (I love the Ovechkin commercial - "No one ever got better at hockey by bowling.") Or telling a board member that has apparently never run his own checkbook, much less the finances of a business (yes, I said business), to quit telling the membership that we make $30k/year on concessions; that 30k is the revenue; after expenses last year we cleared $2,400 on over 2,000 volunteer hours. You don't know me; you don't know how hard or how long I've worked for change. I don't know you either. But I do know the board member who had a kid that didn't like the jerseys, a deal was made, jerseys were purchased, there was even a meeting in which the coach commented of course this kid will make the team, dad bought all new jerseys. I'm also calling BS on stale old comments about "nobody will actually step up"; I'm not saying it didn't happen where you live; I am saying that I've seen rules voted on and changed the week before an election to keep community members off the ballot; I've seen association members actually kicked out when nominated for a board position; I know of people slandered once they were elected to the board until they quit; I know a guy that had the attendance policy changed to get him to resign; I know numerous men and women that have been nicely asked to have their names removed from the ballot "for the good of the kids", so the incumbent could be re-elected "without a scene". I don't know you at all, but the words you type are so very familiar - why wouldn't our buddy get the backing of the association to run a program during the summer, for which he makes money, just because we're on the board - we'll just subsidize it thousands of dollars and incorporate the dollars into the winter fees of all the kids. Nobody has filed a grievance with the state, so every back alley deal that gets made, every item that makes it onto the agenda every month until the vote goes the way we want, every check written without a receipt, every disciplinary issue with a boardmember's kid - must all be OK, because nobody has put down in writing that they think it's wrong. I promise that I won't tell you that you did all those things where you live, if you promise not to tell me that those things haven't happened where I live.
Inigo, I believe many of those same issues are prevelant in many local associations.
I don't know you, but hear similar complaints over and over.
Bottom line - Most associations struggle to get board volunteers. The people that do step up get chastised by people that don't agree with the board direction, but have no intention of helping.
There are also the few that get involved for personal gain, or to "fix" the one thing that really makes them mad. These people are bad for the association.
If you are one of those volunteers, I apologize for grouping you in with those that don't. If you aren't one of the volunteers, you should be. You would probably be an asset to the association.
InigoMontoya wrote:What makes you so sure that I'm not on the board? Slugging it out every meeting with geniuses like you. Trying to convince another board member, who had a daddy work his butt off to build a successful business, to turn it over to junior that has never had to work a full day in his life, that the kids need to work hard to get better, for more than 30/40/50 hours a season as mites/squirts/peewees, rather than making a deal to get your kid on the A team without the hard work. Or telling another board member that it's great that his family handed him the keys to their business, as well, but please don't make comments like "hockey is a rich man's game" just because you can dip into your bottomless pockets, let's try to make it affordable for anyone that really wants to play. Or telling a board member that has never played a day of organized sports in his life, "yes, I agree, the kids should have the opportunity to be multi-sport athletes for as long as they wish to exercise that option, but that skating is not a natural movement that kids get better at by playing baseball - they need to skate". (I love the Ovechkin commercial - "No one ever got better at hockey by bowling.") Or telling a board member that has apparently never run his own checkbook, much less the finances of a business (yes, I said business), to quit telling the membership that we make $30k/year on concessions; that 30k is the revenue; after expenses last year we cleared $2,400 on over 2,000 volunteer hours. You don't know me; you don't know how hard or how long I've worked for change. I don't know you either. But I do know the board member who had a kid that didn't like the jerseys, a deal was made, jerseys were purchased, there was even a meeting in which the coach commented of course this kid will make the team, dad bought all new jerseys. I'm also calling BS on stale old comments about "nobody will actually step up"; I'm not saying it didn't happen where you live; I am saying that I've seen rules voted on and changed the week before an election to keep community members off the ballot; I've seen association members actually kicked out when nominated for a board position; I know of people slandered once they were elected to the board until they quit; I know a guy that had the attendance policy changed to get him to resign; I know numerous men and women that have been nicely asked to have their names removed from the ballot "for the good of the kids", so the incumbent could be re-elected "without a scene". I don't know you at all, but the words you type are so very familiar - why wouldn't our buddy get the backing of the association to run a program during the summer, for which he makes money, just because we're on the board - we'll just subsidize it thousands of dollars and incorporate the dollars into the winter fees of all the kids. Nobody has filed a grievance with the state, so every back alley deal that gets made, every item that makes it onto the agenda every month until the vote goes the way we want, every check written without a receipt, every disciplinary issue with a boardmember's kid - must all be OK, because nobody has put down in writing that they think it's wrong. I promise that I won't tell you that you did all those things where you live, if you promise not to tell me that those things haven't happened where I live.
What is scary is how many people can see their own association in these examples.
Explain it to me Ingo. Why can't you and a small group make a difference? If things are as bad as you say they are, and assuming you are a reasonable fellow, there must be lots of people that agree.
In our little berg half of our board will be new this year. The current pres is begging for help. Pretty much show up and you are in. I gotta believe this is true in many smaller associations.
hocmom wrote:Explain it to me Ingo. Why can't you and a small group make a difference? If things are as bad as you say they are, and assuming you are a reasonable fellow, there must be lots of people that agree.
In our little berg half of our board will be new this year. The current pres is begging for help. Pretty much show up and you are in. I gotta believe this is true in many smaller associations.
Chicken?
Relax Homom. No need to start something unnecessary
hocmom wrote:Explain it to me Ingo. Why can't you and a small group make a difference? If things are as bad as you say they are, and assuming you are a reasonable fellow, there must be lots of people that agree.
In our little berg half of our board will be new this year. The current pres is begging for help. Pretty much show up and you are in. I gotta believe this is true in many smaller associations.
Chicken?
In your little berg are half the board leaving before their term limits are up because they are tired of obstructionist politics? Ingo is right hockey associations should be run as a business but after 9 years you have turned it into monkey business and no one wants to participate in that zoo.
Instead they are turning to AAA and MN Made which are growing stronger faster than you can laugh and ridicule all opposing ideas. Get back on topic before this gets locked out. I for one am interested in knowing how districts/associations schedule their refs to avoid conflicts or do the refs "police" themselves to avoid conflict?
I for one am interested in knowing how districts/associations schedule their refs
Many have an association of officials that has one scheduling entity. The association scheduler takes care of many different arenas that particiapate inside the association.
The association has all the information as far as family members, coaching conflicts and so on.
The association takes care of district games, as well as tournaments.
