Is Rochester Red the 12th team in the D9 Peewee A playoffs?

[hot wheels]

Just a simple question.

Frederick why do you think you know what's right or wrong in Peewee hockey. What is your background(long time coach, past board member). The D9 President has answered your question and you continue to say its wrong.

[Quasar]

Ok.. Lets say that any kid in district 9 can play for any team in District 9 if he can make the team. Playing within a geographic area... Choice...No need to alter the current association, District model.

If it's all about the kids, as apposed to the Association and district boards, open enrollment would solve the problem in about two years. The A teams would really be A teams, the B teams would be competitive, and the dreaded AAA.. Tier 1 ..etc. etc ..etc.. Would no longer be a threat to anyone.
AAA summer hockey would continue to offer off season development for those that choose.

Your comments ???

[royals dad]

What have the last 4 or 5 seasons shown? Has Rochester shown historically that D9 league play was not competitive?

After working in Rochester for part of last year I could see how they might not be a great fit, the size of the community and demographics are fairly different then the rest of D9. I think they may be the only association that feeds to multiple High Schools in D9 as well. The goal should be to get a good fit for the kids in D9/Rochester whether it is multiple equal A teams in the district or 1 top A team that plays independent, hopefully decisions can be made that will be around development and not trophies. Although I can see Fred's point if it is a one year experiment it should be allowed to play out on the ice and then be evaluated post season without grievances to the state.

[Mnhockeys]

Concerned HC,

Hmmm . . . If you really are a District 10 coach and you coach a peewee A team, you are either an Elk River, a Centennial or a Blaine coach. I am confident you are not the head Centennial coach because he would not post such an arrogant statement, which leaves Elk River or Blaine. Both of those teams played numerous scrimmages against top 10 teams and played in highly competitive tournaments, which means neither team suffered because they were "forced" to play in District 10 league games. As Ugotta . . . accurately pointed out, on any given day in District 10, the top nine teams are capable of winning (or losing) in District 10 league play.  The fact is our society is built on earning your way to the dance; simply because you arrogantly declare yourself the best doesn't mean you deserve to bow out of the hard work required to earn your "right" to play for a District championship. Either you're part of the District league or you're not; if you are, you play a league schedule and then you play the top teams in scrimmages and tournament games. If you're not, you don't play in District league games and you stay home during the District tournament because you didn't earn the right to play for the District championship.

Why are you addressing this to me???

Choice thinks CHC = Mn_Hcky_Coach ....

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

Concerned HC,

Hmmm . . . If you really are a District 10 coach and you coach a peewee A team, you are either an Elk River, a Centennial or a Blaine coach. I am confident you are not the head Centennial coach because he would not post such an arrogant statement, which leaves Elk River or Blaine. Both of those teams played numerous scrimmages against top 10 teams and played in highly competitive tournaments, which means neither team suffered because they were "forced" to play in District 10 league games. As Ugotta . . . accurately pointed out, on any given day in District 10, the top nine teams are capable of winning (or losing) in District 10 league play.  The fact is our society is built on earning your way to the dance; simply because you arrogantly declare yourself the best doesn't mean you deserve to bow out of the hard work required to earn your "right" to play for a District championship. Either you're part of the District league or you're not; if you are, you play a league schedule and then you play the top teams in scrimmages and tournament games. If you're not, you don't play in District league games and you stay home during the District tournament because you didn't earn the right to play for the District championship.

Why are you addressing this to me???

Choice thinks CHC = Mn_Hcky_Coach ....

Sigh... I'll be more than happy to reveal myself to anyone who really wants to know... but I don't want the distraction to my team or whatnot right now. I've never claimed to have insider info, just offered my critique to accusations of impropriety and tried to keep folks focused on known facts.

PM me if you need to know who I am and I will respond after the season.
I have nothing to hide.

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

Ok.. Lets say that any kid in district 9 can play for any team in District 9 if he can make the team. Playing within a geographic area... Choice...No need to alter the current association, District model.

If it's all about the kids, as apposed to the Association and district boards, open enrollment would solve the problem in about two years. The A teams would really be A teams, the B teams would be competitive, and the dreaded AAA.. Tier 1 ..etc. etc ..etc.. Would no longer be a threat to anyone.
AAA summer hockey would continue to offer off season development for those that choose.

Your comments ???

I would not be in favor of this, because in most districts its not needed and would result in a D6 or D8 Super Team, which really just isn't needed in my opinion.

Lines have to be drawn, because why not open it to the regional level, or state level?

I like the Districts making the call and being flexible to its ass'n's needs.

Seems like that was what D9 and Rochester were doing here.

[Quasar]

Lines have to be drawn, because why not open it to the regional level, or state level?

Why not... Choice is what AAA offers..

If you are as anti AAA as you claim, I would think something that answers the need for choice, and development would be right up your alley.

Seems to me for a lot of people control is way more important than choice..

[BadgerBob82]

Royals Dad "What have the last 4 or 5 seasons shown? Has Rochester shown historically that D9 league play was not competitive?"

Did you not understand that Rochester has spent the last 10 years or more in District 8. District 8 kicked Rochester out for "travel distance" reasons.

District 9 was formed last June. The entire organization is new. Combined from Districts 4 and 8. Maybe D3?

History would show the Rochester A Red team has been very competitive in D8 and has had post season success at all levels.

Moving Rochester to a newly formed D9 posed alot of problems. The least of which was having the Red teams not play a league schedule against B1 level teams.

[Expressor16]

10. Any team interested in playing an independent schedule must receive approval from the District Director prior to the start of league play. Seeding will be determined by the District Director and the executive committee upon the completion of the season.

This is right out of the District Operating Guide posted to the D9 website last fall and last updated on 11-23-10. Everyone in the district knew that Red was going to play and independent schedule and get seeded into the district tournament. If they didn't know, it is because they didn't care to know. There has been plenty of time for a grievance to be filed with MH by an affiliate in good standing.

Frederick61, you continue to pass out information that is completely false. I respectfully request that you either email me or call me if you would like to be informed instead of making things up as you go. I have been involved in hockey since 1965. Anyone who knows me, knows that I am all about teaching the game to kids so they can one day do what I do to keep the game intact for the following generations.

[hot wheels]

10. Any team interested in playing an independent schedule must receive approval from the District Director prior to the start of league play. Seeding will be determined by the District Director and the executive committee upon the completion of the season.

This is right out of the District Operating Guide posted to the D9 website last fall and last updated on 11-23-10. Everyone in the district knew that Red was going to play and independent schedule and get seeded into the district tournament. If they didn't know, it is because they didn't care to know. There has been plenty of time for a grievance to be filed with MH by an affiliate in good standing.

Frederick61, you continue to pass out information that is completely false. I respectfully request that you either email me or call me if you would like to be informed instead of making things up as you go. I have been involved in hockey since 1965. Anyone who knows me, knows that I am all about teaching the game to kids so they can one day do what I do to keep the game intact for the following generations.

I don't think F61 is all that knowledgeable on hockey at all and I think we saw that in this thread, just thinks he's right and nobody disagree.

I loved reading his breakdowns but now I won't read them.

[frederick61]

10. Any team interested in playing an independent schedule must receive approval from the District Director prior to the start of league play. Seeding will be determined by the District Director and the executive committee upon the completion of the season.

This is right out of the District Operating Guide posted to the D9 website last fall and last updated on 11-23-10. Everyone in the district knew that Red was going to play and independent schedule and get seeded into the district tournament. If they didn't know, it is because they didn't care to know. There has been plenty of time for a grievance to be filed with MH by an affiliate in good standing.

Frederick61, you continue to pass out information that is completely false. I respectfully request that you either email me or call me if you would like to be informed instead of making things up as you go. I have been involved in hockey since 1965. Anyone who knows me, knows that I am all about teaching the game to kids so they can one day do what I do to keep the game intact for the following generations.

Not that it matters in this debate, but did D9 give Rochester Red written approval and post that fact on their website? Just curious.

[old goalie85]

Wow this is going to be as long as the Fire thread.

[Mnhockeys]

10. Any team interested in playing an independent schedule must receive approval from the District Director prior to the start of league play. Seeding will be determined by the District Director and the executive committee upon the completion of the season.

This is right out of the District Operating Guide posted to the D9 website last fall and last updated on 11-23-10. Everyone in the district knew that Red was going to play and independent schedule and get seeded into the district tournament. If they didn't know, it is because they didn't care to know. There has been plenty of time for a grievance to be filed with MH by an affiliate in good standing.

Frederick61, you continue to pass out information that is completely false. I respectfully request that you either email me or call me if you would like to be informed instead of making things up as you go. I have been involved in hockey since 1965. Anyone who knows me, knows that I am all about teaching the game to kids so they can one day do what I do to keep the game intact for the following generations.

You had some great posts as the D9 insiders to clarify things and we appreciated them. But now you sound all like CHC (no offense! ), ... "completely false"? Fine, D9 can decide who is in its playoff and seedings, but it is up MH and all its relevant associations to question and decide the participants in regionals and state.

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

Not that it matters in this debate, but did D9 give Rochester Red written approval and post that fact on their website? Just curious.

Frederick61, you have now sunk to desperately suggesting that D9 should have posted "written approval" on the website...

Really? Ok, Frederick61 has finally shown that he knows he's defeated here and in the wrong... he's grasping for straws now. An apology to Rochester Red and D9 would be the responsible thing for him to do, perhaps in his blog even, but something tells me the guy is too stubborn and set in his ways to admit he's been wrong, and that he wronged a whole association, a specific team (he'll argue their parents - BUT he's the one begging for someone to file a grievance and get MN hockey to end the KIDS' season), all of District 9, and the District 9 board members and director.

[EDITED here...] Ok, now I'll admit I'm starting to feel a little bad for Frederick. The points are proven, and unless someone directly asks me a question I'll leave this post (hold your applause!)

I just hope there's a few people out there who appreciated that I kept this thread alive and allowed some good people to come with the facts.

Thanks everyone, including my detractors. I sincerely do believe we're all here for the right reasons, and passions aside, let's all keep doing what we believe is right for our kids.

Frederick61 - Good luck with proposing a change in the rules going forward. You may be successful, and you certainly should try to if you feel passionately about it. I don't claim to know my views are what's best and I can only hope the procedures allow for all opinions to be heard and that the present powers that be make the right decisions.

Peace out.

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

You had some great posts as the D9 insiders to clarify things and we appreciated them. But now you sound all like CHC (no offense! ), ... "completely false"? Fine, D9 can decide who is in its playoff and seedings, but it is up MH and all its relevant associations to question and decide the participants in regionals and state.

Who's CHC? Sounds like a great guy to be associated with Expressor.

Btw - Mnhockeys, IF you would have READ Expressor's post, you'd note that its the District who decides who goes to Regionals, not OTHER associations or Minnesota Hockey. MN Hockey wrote the rules this way... before you start alleging falsities, please cite the rule that supports your argument. I've done so (refer to page 8 or 9) and just don't feel like doing it again.

Thanks.

[HeShootsHeScores]

Not that it matters in this debate, but did D9 give Rochester Red written approval and post that fact on their website? Just curious.

Frederick61, you have now sunk to desperately suggesting that D9 should have posted "written approval" on the website...

Really? Ok, Frederick61 has finally shown that he knows he's defeated here and in the wrong... he's grasping for straws now. An apology to Rochester Red and D9 would be the responsible thing for him to do, perhaps in his blog even, but something tells me the guy is too stubborn and set in his ways to admit he's been wrong, and that he wronged a whole association, a specific team (he'll argue their parents - BUT he's the one begging for someone to file a grievance and get MN hockey to end the KIDS' season), all of District 9, and the District 9 board members and director.

[EDITED here...] Ok, now I'll admit I'm starting to feel a little bad for Frederick. The points are proven, and unless someone directly asks me a question I'll leave this post (hold your applause!)

I just hope there's a few people out there who appreciated that I kept this thread alive and allowed some good people to come with the facts.

Thanks everyone, including my detractors. I sincerely do believe we're all here for the right reasons, and passions aside, let's all keep doing what we believe is right for our kids.

Frederick61 - Good luck with proposing a change in the rules going forward. You may be successful, and you certainly should try to if you feel passionately about it. I don't claim to know my views are what's best and I can only hope the procedures allow for all opinions to be heard and that the present powers that be make the right decisions.

Peace out.

It's a legit question and one that hopefully will be answered. And really coach, quit with the bullying and name calling. Remember, you are a hockey coach, try lead by example. Thanks

[HockeyDad41]

Not that it matters in this debate, but did D9 give Rochester Red written approval and post that fact on their website? Just curious.

Frederick61, you have now sunk to desperately suggesting that D9 should have posted "written approval" on the website...

Really? Ok, Frederick61 has finally shown that he knows he's defeated here and in the wrong... he's grasping for straws now. An apology to Rochester Red and D9 would be the responsible thing for him to do, perhaps in his blog even, but something tells me the guy is too stubborn and set in his ways to admit he's been wrong, and that he wronged a whole association, a specific team (he'll argue their parents - BUT he's the one begging for someone to file a grievance and get MN hockey to end the KIDS' season), all of District 9, and the District 9 board members and director.

[EDITED here...] Ok, now I'll admit I'm starting to feel a little bad for Frederick. The points are proven, and unless someone directly asks me a question I'll leave this post (hold your applause!)

I just hope there's a few people out there who appreciated that I kept this thread alive and allowed some good people to come with the facts.

Thanks everyone, including my detractors. I sincerely do believe we're all here for the right reasons, and passions aside, let's all keep doing what we believe is right for our kids.

Frederick61 - Good luck with proposing a change in the rules going forward. You may be successful, and you certainly should try to if you feel passionately about it. I don't claim to know my views are what's best and I can only hope the procedures allow for all opinions to be heard and that the present powers that be make the right decisions.

Peace out.

I'm going to have to give this farewell speech a B+ rating. As topic farewell speeches go it wasn't bad It was gracious and I especially loved the "doing it for the kids" part. Not the most original though or I might have scored it higher.

[BadgerBob82]

I just wish Fred would do two things.

1. Admit he is wrong.
2. Admit he is only mad at the Pee-Wee level because it directly impacted his team. He has never mentioned the same situation at the Bantam A level. Only the Pee-Wee A level. The exact same procedure was followed at both levels. Fred is only concerned with the Pee-Wee A level. Why? It has to be that his team finished 4th yet was eliminated by a B1 level team.

[Expressor16]

The Rochester Red exemption for league play was discussed, at length, at several initial board meetings of District 9. The District Director sought the advice and council of the board and executive committee and made his decision based on the support of those bodies. It is the district directors sole authority to rule of matters such as these, however, our director often seeks our council and opinion from the board before he makes rulings. He has done an outstanding job this season on several difficult matters.

I don't know if it was put into a written declaration, hand delivered and nailed to the door of Rochester Youth Hockey. But I do know it is in the minutes of our exec comm meetings.

I also know that every affiliate representative was well aware of this exemption before the start of the season. After that it is up to the affiliate representative to communicate that with their associations.

Dave Swenson

[woodley]

Wait. . . what was that I heard. . . I think it was a very faint "neigh". . . could it have been the final sound from a, now deceased horse. . . face it folks, this poor nag has been beaten, dragged, punished, kicked, and is now thoroughly dead. Let the mare rest in peace!!!

[silentbutdeadly3139]

The Rochester Red exemption for league play was discussed, at length, at several initial board meetings of District 9. The District Director sought the advice and council of the board and executive committee and made his decision based on the support of those bodies. It is the district directors sole authority to rule of matters such as these, however, our director often seeks our council and opinion from the board before he makes rulings. He has done an outstanding job this season on several difficult matters.

I don't know if it was put into a written declaration, hand delivered and nailed to the door of Rochester Youth Hockey. But I do know it is in the minutes of our exec comm meetings.

I also know that every affiliate representative was well aware of this exemption before the start of the season. After that it is up to the affiliate representative to communicate that with their associations.

Dave Swenson

Lesson to everyone, communication and documenting with details would eliminate a LOT of speculation, rumors and distrust. Probably been wise to post on website and/or in meeting minutes with some details on the process/discussions when the decision was reached.

[Mnhockeys]

Not that it matters in this debate, but did D9 give Rochester Red written approval and post that fact on their website? Just curious.

Frederick61, you have now sunk to desperately suggesting that D9 should have posted "written approval" on the website...

Really? Ok, Frederick61 has finally shown that he knows he's defeated here and in the wrong... he's grasping for straws now. An apology to Rochester Red and D9 would be the responsible thing for him to do, perhaps in his blog even, but something tells me the guy is too stubborn and set in his ways to admit he's been wrong, and that he wronged a whole association, a specific team (he'll argue their parents - BUT he's the one begging for someone to file a grievance and get MN hockey to end the KIDS' season), all of District 9, and the District 9 board members and director.

[EDITED here...] Ok, now I'll admit I'm starting to feel a little bad for Frederick. The points are proven, and unless someone directly asks me a question I'll leave this post (hold your applause!)

I just hope there's a few people out there who appreciated that I kept this thread alive and allowed some good people to come with the facts.

Thanks everyone, including my detractors. I sincerely do believe we're all here for the right reasons, and passions aside, let's all keep doing what we believe is right for our kids.

Frederick61 - Good luck with proposing a change in the rules going forward. You may be successful, and you certainly should try to if you feel passionately about it. I don't claim to know my views are what's best and I can only hope the procedures allow for all opinions to be heard and that the present powers that be make the right decisions.

Peace out.

I'm going to have to give this farewell speech a B+ rating. As topic farewell speeches go it wasn't bad It was gracious and I especially loved the "doing it for the kids" part. Not the most original though or I might have scored it higher.

Are you kidding me? I gave the coach's post an A+ rating! Love the statement "I don't claim my views are what's best ...", that is completely reversal of your total break-down of everyone's objections from your earlier posts.

Back to the topics, if you think everything was done according to the book with what happens to Roch Red situation, then maybe you should just say go ahead to file the grievance.

I say we are all good people after all!

[frederick61]

Dave,
I appreciate the answer and would ask one more. Was there every any discussion with D4 on their extra seed?

[Quasar]

I just wish Fred would do two things.

1. Admit he is wrong.
2. Admit he is only mad at the Pee-Wee level because it directly impacted his team. He has never mentioned the same situation at the Bantam A level. Only the Pee-Wee A level. The exact same procedure was followed at both levels. Fred is only concerned with the Pee-Wee A level. Why? It has to be that his team finished 4th yet was eliminated by a B1 level team.

Bob.... For what it's worth Fredrick discussed this problem back in November of 2010 in his blog.. I don't think it has anything to do with his team.

It has to do with his fear that other associations can do this, leading to AAA type super teams in Minnesota hockey.

[frederick61]

Quasar,
I don't have a team in D9. Remember what's happening here. It is called ad hominem abuse or when one doesn't argue the facts they question the character of the person stating the facts (liar comes to mind). Another poster picks up the abuse and re-states it as fact.

Your are right. In my November blog I pointed out this could happen and have been following the events in D9 every week since the November posts. But I only followed it at the peewee A level.