Thoughts on Youth Hockey AA and A divisions...

[JaginCake]

Concerned Hockey Coach:

Boy I wonder who you voted for for Prez in 2008! Just like MN Hockey can do it all at the state level and trample the local ass'n's, you surely also believe the Fed government should be able to control my healthcare and decide who gets guns... I see your colors now.[/quote]

Getting personal aren't you--2nd Amendment is for my buddies and I to be able to keep my politicians in line

I like the guy from Arizona but what does that have to do with youth Hockey??? Here Tim Pawlenty ratified more Legislation from ACORN than Jesse did.

Ok, now for the forest from the tree---D9 both Rochester teams are at the top of their league. Moorhead carrying 2 Peewee A teams?? You want to have MN hockey mandate a AA level and you call me the populist???

The game at the youth level is supppose to be fun. Helping to teach and foster a love for the game. How many 10 year olds remain fans when they get cut?? There are more Basketball playing kids in Edina than play Hockey? the point is you want the best athletes to play coach? As Willard Ikola on the FoxSports show has him saying? You have to get them out on the ice first. In your keeping the best together Ovechkin would have been cut by you since he did not start skating until he was 9. So you would thrown him out as a mite!!

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

Jagr -

Careful now or you're going to prove my points... Rochester Red is their "A1" team and they are independent. They are ranked 42 on myhockeyrankings and are 7-16-2. They aren't allowed to play in Districts. Rochester Black is ranked 95/103 (5-17-2) and Rochester Gold is ranked 96/103 (5-16-5).

Moorhead has an A1 and an A2. Their best team is among the top 20 teams in the state and their A2 team is ranked 81/103 (however they don't have a ton of reported scores and those that are reported show they can compete with the average A team, although they won't win many games. I have no idea how happy they are with this.

For you to use these examples to show that having A/A2 is the way to go means that you have taken away any shot from these kids at succeeding against teams they are comparable with rather than forcing kids 16-30 to try to compete with kids 15-1 in their own city/ass'n.

Kind of silly. Just like you say "The game at the youth level is supppose to be fun. Helping to teach and foster a love for the game. How many 10 year olds remain fans when they get cut?? There are more Basketball playing kids in Edina than play Hockey? the point is you want the best athletes to play coach? As Willard Ikola on the FoxSports show has him saying? You have to get them out on the ice first. In your keeping the best together Ovechkin would have been cut by you since he did not start skating until he was 9. So you would thrown him out as a mite!!"

Again, do you forget that teams aren't locked in stone from Mite through Bantam A??? There's a little thing called tryouts... AND if you want to eliminate kids getting cut... well sir, again, I have this tree that grows on money that I will sell to you for $20.... seriously but don't tell anyone!

Love ya Jag

[JaginCake]

Jagr -

Careful now or you're going to prove my points... Rochester Red is their "A1" team and they are independent. They are ranked 42 on myhockeyrankings and are 7-16-2. They aren't allowed to play in Districts. Rochester Black is ranked 95/103 (5-17-2) and Rochester Gold is ranked 96/103 (5-16-5).

Moorhead has an A1 and an A2. Their best team is among the top 20 teams in the state and their A2 team is ranked 81/103 (however they don't have a ton of reported scores and those that are reported show they can compete with the average A team, although they won't win many games. I have no idea how happy they are with this.

For you to use these examples to show that having A/A2 is the way to go means that you have taken away any shot from these kids at succeeding against teams they are comparable with rather than forcing kids 16-30 to try to compete with kids 15-1 in their own city/ass'n.

Kind of silly. Just like you say "The game at the youth level is supppose to be fun. Helping to teach and foster a love for the game. How many 10 year olds remain fans when they get cut?? There are more Basketball playing kids in Edina than play Hockey? the point is you want the best athletes to play coach? As Willard Ikola on the FoxSports show has him saying? You have to get them out on the ice first. In your keeping the best together Ovechkin would have been cut by you since he did not start skating until he was 9. So you would thrown him out as a mite!!"

Again, do you forget that teams aren't locked in stone from Mite through Bantam A??? There's a little thing called tryouts... AND if you want to eliminate kids getting cut... well sir, again, I have this tree that grows on money that I will sell to you for $20.... seriously but don't tell anyone!

Love ya Jag

Rochester Gold RGOLD
33 13 15 9 4 2 47 34 9-1-1
Rochester Black RBLACK
29 13 14 8 6 0 36 34 6-4-0
Dodge County DC
26 12 13 6 5 2 44 38 6-2-2
Winona WIN
17 8 11 3 5 3 32 36 3-4-1
Red Wing RW
16 9 13 3 9 1 29 54 2-7-0
Austin Aus
7 7 12 0 12 0 24 74 0-8-0

West - 2010-2011 Regular Season
.Team Team
PTS FPP GP W L T GF GA Division
Mankato Man
38 11 14 13 0 1 95 18 10-0-1
Albert Lea ALee
35 14 15 9 3 3 60 28 7-3-1
Owatonna OWAT
29 8 12 10 1 1 66 27 8-1-0
Faribault Fblt
27 11 14 8 6 0 60 56 6-5-0
Luverne Luv
20 10 13 5 8 0 48 61 2-8-0
St. Peter/Le Sueur SPLS
13 8 10 2 7 1 34 74 0-7-0
New Ulm NU
10 8 12 1 11 0 27 68 0-9-0


Winning vs. development at LPH.com

By Aaron Paitich

There are district 9 standings and an article in LPH about Moorhead. You go with computer rankings like this is the BCS.

Both Rochester teams1 and 2 in their division must have the rest of the district excited to know they might have a chance? Wonder if that will increase those associations numbers??? I'm sure Coach wouldn't want that too many players means he might get some quality in other associations. Leave the hard cuts to the HS coach. Or is it to hard to coach guys who like the game but don't have the tools?

[Concerned Hockey Coach]

Jag - They took OUT the Rochester A1 team to make it competitive...

If you call that district good Minnesota Pee Wee A hockey... than about that money tree...

Seriously you are making yourself look foolish...

Next you're going to say that all teams at the A level should be required to have 15 skaters and 2 goalies!

[JaginCake]

Jag - They took OUT the Rochester A1 team to make it competitive...

If you call that district good Minnesota Pee Wee A hockey... than about that money tree...

Seriously you are making yourself look foolish...

Next you're going to say that all teams at the A level should be required to have 15 skaters and 2 goalies!

I think I'm doing alright showing that you as a Peewee coach are concerned only about winning. So how does that relate to you wanting MN hockey to dictate a AA level? Earlier it was posted the Rochester parents wanted this and the District (the MAN) which you don't want dictating made them go elsewhere. So the Rochester rejects as would have been determined by the AA coach tryouts are two of the top 2 bantam A teams in the district and you say proves your point. Proves Rochester could have 4 A teams happy to send 3 to regions 3 of 4 years and never probably make state. How would having MN hockey dictating a AA level change that??? It is pretty much the same thing as having them say your association has 6 teams you have to have 2 a teams. So the rest of D9 might find they will have a chance to compete which will bring up the numbers and Quality because as was pointed out earlier its about numbers and the rich getting richer.

[defense]

Defense wrote:

And as far as Broten etc. goes, they became the best because they played the best. Not because they weren't allowed to play against the bigger schools.

Well who did they practice with? According to Concerned Hockey Coach that is just as important??

I know for the Hockey folk like "Towlie" out there they don't like other sports but good thing Football which has become the dominant sport in this country at the youth level is no cut and no A or B in most communities. I wonder if there is a correlation???

The debate Between AA/A is for about 10% of the hockey playing community in MN. What does the remaining 90% want?? The paying customers?? An opportunity to have their kids play where there parents believe they should play at. If they are not given those options the free market will take over and MN MADE and "Choice" and AAA will become a viable option. If the pool of players shrinks will the AA players really be AA players????

You shouldn't group people together like that. I did not say that, nor was that my idea. I will say this to it though:
My angle is not who the players are practicing with, it is who they are practicing for. Are they preparing to play against Wadena, Little Falls, Detroit Lakes and Fergus Falls??? OR are they preparing to play all of those teams plus Moorhead, Brainerd, Bemidji.....Eden Prarie??? Edina???

[the_juiceman]

No, no elliott, everything evil in MN hockey comes from Edina, didn't you know that? You must not read this board much.

Oh...is poor little old Edina feeling picked on?!

Nope. Just noting the continued childish obsession, as evidenced by your post.

Yea, you got me--I'm currently holding my breath and stomping my feet!!

[defense]

Oh...is poor little old Edina feeling picked on?!

Nope. Just noting the continued childish obsession, as evidenced by your post.

Yea, you got me--I'm currently holding my breath and stomping my feet!!

I feel like I should call someone to get you help.

[Toomuchtoosoon]

Let's get back to the actual discussion. Timely article in LPH.

http://www.letsplayhockey.com/1031paitich.html

[InigoMontoya]

Let's get back to the actual discussion. Timely article in LPH.

http://www.letsplayhockey.com/1031paitich.html

Makes it tough for the mega-associations to defend 2 or 3 B1 teams in the top 10. I realize the other mega-associations are a short drive away, but those kids would all get to play each other as A2.

[InigoMontoya]

[quoteMy angle is not who the players are practicing with, it is who they are practicing for. Are they preparing to play against Wadena, Little Falls, Detroit Lakes and Fergus Falls??? OR are they preparing to play all of those teams plus Moorhead, Brainerd, Bemidji.....Eden Prarie??? Edina???[/quote]

I think a better (and more reasonable, though I understand the rush to extremes when trying to make a point) example would be: are they preparing for Eden Prairie, Edina, Burnsville; or Jefferson, Kennedy, Minnetonka, Prior Lake, Chaska/Chanhassen, Shakopee? Are you setting the whole season on 6 district games or 12 district games? Because you can sign up for tournaments that fit the level of the team. You don't have to go to Rosseau; Alexandria is a pretty nice town and not nearly as far away.

And 6 times a year kids # 16-30 get to take a shot at it. OMGHA has 3 teams with a shot at regionals; I find it hard to believe that the Crimson team (or the first line from each team if they divided them evenly) wouldn't do well against Hopkins, Orono, North Metro, and Crow River; and also have the battle scars from playing the best kids from Wayzata and the best kids that go to Benilde.

[defense]

bump

[defense]

[quoteMy angle is not who the players are practicing with, it is who they are practicing for. Are they preparing to play against Wadena, Little Falls, Detroit Lakes and Fergus Falls??? OR are they preparing to play all of those teams plus Moorhead, Brainerd, Bemidji.....Eden Prarie??? Edina???

InigoMontoya wrote:
I think a better (and more reasonable, though I understand the rush to extremes when trying to make a point) example would be: are they preparing for Eden Prairie, Edina, Burnsville; or Jefferson, Kennedy, Minnetonka, Prior Lake, Chaska/Chanhassen, Shakopee? Are you setting the whole season on 6 district games or 12 district games? Because you can sign up for tournaments that fit the level of the team. You don't have to go to Rosseau; Alexandria is a pretty nice town and not nearly as far away.

And 6 times a year kids # 16-30 get to take a shot at it. OMGHA has 3 teams with a shot at regionals; I find it hard to believe that the Crimson team (or the first line from each team if they divided them evenly) wouldn't do well against Hopkins, Orono, North Metro, and Crow River; and also have the battle scars from playing the best kids from Wayzata and the best kids that go to Benilde.[/quote]

What???

[MrBoDangles]

Would someone care to list the associations they think will be allowed to play this new Double A Hockey....... I will then explain how it will be an epic fail.

[Toomuchtoosoon]

Would someone care to list the associations they think will be allowed to play this new Double A Hockey

Any one who wants to. If looking at high school is a good barometer of who may or may not, it should not be that big of a deal. The problem is those associations that overreach thinking they should be at a level higher than they are.

Look, your Chisago lakes PW team is a nice team, and they are competitive with Wayzata Skaters 16-60, but I feel they would get a bit of a beat down if they went against Wayzata or Edinas 16-30 as an A2 team.

Any kid can play for any association if they go to school there. If it is that important, open enroll in Edina, Stillwater, or WBL. Or, combine your associations like many in the metro have done to survive. There will be no mass exodus since that option already exists. Go AA with a combined association, then let your B teams be more geography based.

If you have a chance to compete in AA, then opt up. If you think you can win A, and that is what you want to do-stay there. Its all about the associations choice.

[MrBoDangles]

Districts 10's Centennial decides AA is right for them. Blaine hears this and it turns in to a no brainer for them. Elk River won't let them get an advantage playing higher competition and also opt up........ Andover says we can hang with these guys, we're also in. Anoka has a proud Hockey tradition and know that they have to stay at a level with these other teams. Champlin Park knows that they can play with some of these teams so they don't want to fall behind. Rogers beat a couple of these teams last year, so why would we not opt up? Princeton believes they will get no better playing single A, which they know is really just the new B-1...........

These are ALL the current teams that that play A Bantams in District 10. For those of you that think only one or two of these associations will opt up to form a 15-20 team AA Elite League......................... Put the crack pipe down.

Nothing will change!

[Toomuchtoosoon]

or they stay A, compete with them like B1 can play B2, then play for the A state championship.

No restrictions with A playing AA. Just come tourney time, they play with similar competition. Maybe give a chance for someone else outside of the western suburbs gets a chance to win a title. Or maybe the 2nd tier western suburb kids win A vs. B1.

Who knows, the second A level is needed to give more kids a chance to play at the right level.

Why would you play AA and end your season in February, when playing A, you may play to late March?

[MrBoDangles]

or they stay A, compete with them like B1 can play B2, then play for the A state championship.

No restrictions with A playing AA. Just come tourney time, they play with similar competition. Maybe give a chance for someone else outside of the western suburbs gets a chance to win a title. Or maybe the 2nd tier western suburb kids win A vs. B1.

Who knows, the second A level is needed to give more kids a chance to play at the right level.

Why would you play AA and end your season in February, when playing A, you may play to late March?

Do you think a Champlin Park will play A when they know they have to get through a AA Blaine or Centennial in High School? Again........... Nothing will change!

[Toomuchtoosoon]

It would be their Choice. Play to compete or play to get dominated. No change in regular season which is 5 months. Last month would be affected. Right now, they are done in feb, now they would have a chance to play in March. Get that head checked if you cannot see the advantage.

[MrBoDangles]

It would be their Choice. Play to compete or play to get dominated. No change in regular season which is 5 months. Last month would be affected. Right now, they are done in feb, now they would have a chance to play in March. Get that head checked if you cannot see the advantage.

You think they are going to be called sandbaggers just to make a playoff run? Do you think only 15 programs are going to opt up and the rest will play at a lower level saying "we have no future."............? Get your head out of the sand.

Let me see your list of future AA associations......

[Toomuchtoosoon]

Let me see your list of future AA associations......

Don't care. Associations have to do what is right for their kids, though I doubt many will.

As for a list of sandbaggers, I would start with Chisago Lakes

[MrBoDangles]

Let me see your list of future AA associations......

Don't care. Associations have to do what is right for their kids, though I doubt many will.

As for a list of sandbaggers, I would start with Chisago Lakes

Now you admit that everything you were saying in your last few posts is bunk.
You win the oxymoron post of the year with this post.........CONGRATS! Easy to tell where the moron part came from.

[Ugottobekiddingme]

Agree, this is like negociating with Ahmadinejad on whether there was a holocaust...but that could be considered the "first" sandbagger.

[Quasar]

If the purpose of this idea is to make a place for the elite players in the state, there is a way. Right now MN hockey has 4 regions North, South, East and west. Each region is made up of 3 districts. Each year the regions are made up of different districts. For example, this year the East region Peewee and bantams are from Districts 2, 10 and 11..

Supposing each region fielded two AA teams.. 8 teams playing a regular schedule, then seeded by finish for the State AA tournament.

If this was set up for Peewees and Bantams by age (Minor and Major) and followed the tournament seeding model. Every elite kid in the state would play with, and against every other elite kid in the state by the time he reached Bantam Major.. I think districts 2, 10 and 11 could field two AA teams....

If it's really about the kids, someone is going to have to think outside the box....

[Ugottobekiddingme]

Agree, this is like negociating with Ahmadinejad on whether there was a holocaust...but that could be considered the "first" sandbagger.

Agreeing with Toomuch to clarify....welcome back Q.