Tier One Hockey vs Minnesota

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:06 am

Minnesota Hockey's problem with the Fire organization is that at times not all their teams have registered and followed the rules regarding USAH cross-affiliate registration.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:08 am

Minnesota Made has chosen to follow its business model rather than request admission into the USAH system and follow the rules of USAH.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 am

If anyone or organization wishes to have a Tier I program they need to apply to Minnesota Hockey for registratiion. Follow the rules and you cna get what you want. But most of us do not have the resources to put together such an effort.
Minensota Hockey nor USAH will not be doing it for you.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:14 am

The Shattuck school had a huge problem a few years back. Emphasizing sports (hockey) was part of the plan to rebuild the school and sustain it. They have done an excellent job of developing and implementing a plan and have worked hand in hand with USAH and MH to make sure the rules are followed.

Playing in the MSHSL did not create the niche that they needed. It has been good for kids from everywhere and for some Minnesota kids. They works within the system that exists and it has been a very positive thing.

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:20 am

I think on this whole subject USA hockey has taken a wait and see approach and Mn Hockey/MSHSL has taken a stance to hold up the MN hockey traditions of youth and high school hockey.

The biggest hurdle for not having Tier 1 in MN will be school budgets. Lakeville is looking at eliminating Boys/Girls Golf, Lacrosse and Gymnastics. When the School Number crunchers have to take a hard look at what needs are they will look at how much High school hockey costs, no matter how great the state tournament is.

Club level Tier 1 is closer to your door step then you think, better start getting a big time sponser ready for that day to come.

As far as MM goes, if the parents are willing to pay and the kids are willing to play, what does it matter to anyone else? If a kid misses one for the other I guess you don't have to listen to some parents complain about lack of icetime!

StillAnEagle · Post by **StillAnEagle** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:51 pm

youngblood08 wrote:When the School Number crunchers have to take a hard look at what needs are they will look at how much High school hockey costs, no matter how great the state tournament is.

Nice try, but I doubt it.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:21 pm

karl(east) wrote:
itsmorefun wrote:
O-townClown wrote:If Shattuck-St. Mary's entered their teams at the MSHSL level you would not be feeling the positive aura.

In attracting players from throughout North American and even beyond, S-SM isn't exactly tearing down the fabric of Minnesota's community-based hockey model.

The Fire program draws the ire of many, even in Wisconsin, because for it to exist it has to impact local programs. Yes, some people are resistant to that.

With 53,000 kids in Minnesota playing hockey... I doubt the 30 kids Fire hockey draws is really impacting local programs....
I'm going to wade into this discussion for the first time. *cringes*

I agree with that, though. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but most of the Fire kids in MN came from small associations, often ones with no A teams, or a very uncompetitive A teams. This is a sign of market failure...these kids, for the most part, did not have good options. I believe MrBoDangles would be the man to ask about such situations.

Thankfully, there may be a solution to this problem in the immediate future: http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

There are some interesting (and at times torturous) discussions of the Fire and MM on the youth forum.

You are exactly right, all of these kids went this route for a reason. Almost all of the 97 team came from small associations where they provide little for a talented kid. The rest must have left for some reason..... Coaching, wrong side of politics, little ice time, price, etc, etc.

Many folks are fine with the current community based set up in Minnesota, because they are on the right side of the tracks. There are many other kids stuck in associations that would be considered third world in coaching, competition, and training to mega association standards. That is the problem.... Minnesota Hockey was able to not represent these kids for a long time. Now with the threat of competition MN Hockey knows the will have to change this, or they know things wil come apart at the seems.

I would love to see community based Hockey last forever, but without some type of change to help the talented kids in small associations play at the proper level you will see these kids leave for private sector Hockey. These kids will flourish in a different setting and then the flood gates will open.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record on this......, but if Minnesota Hockey does not get creative, the landscape will change in a big way. I hope that District 10 leads the way.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:50 pm

StillAnEagle wrote:
youngblood08 wrote:When the School Number crunchers have to take a hard look at what needs are they will look at how much High school hockey costs, no matter how great the state tournament is.
Nice try, but I doubt it.

Brainerd almost dropped all sports 2 years ago, many schools of the Dodge County co-op don't fund the program at all, it's up to the players. My district is considering dropping all support for HS hockey leaving it up to the program to self sustain. (it will) My guess is that is going to be the norm in many palces in the coming years. Once you start losing school support and costs go up in many communities hockey will start disappearing. I think the next big shift in hockey will be a shift from classifying teams by enrollment to classifying teams by money spent. i.e. teams that skate with the coach in the summer or allowing "AA" teams to play 30 games and "A" teams to play 20. Thereby allowing districts to keep the sport but not have to keep up with the Breck's and Wayzata's of the state.

If you don't think school funding is a major issue in high school sports across the state you have your head in the sand.

Rookie19 · Post by **Rookie19** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:23 am

We already have a Tier 1 Hockey in Minnesota. Look at the top 15 teams year to year they don't change much. If you at not at one of those programs you
are a tier 2 program.

MGnosmirc21 · Post by **MGnosmirc21** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:41 pm

Any attempt to take talent from MN hs hockey, when really money is the motivator, is a shame.

Ugottobekiddingme · Post by **Ugottobekiddingme** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:24 pm

Attention: we have an clean up in aisle 6...but for our shoppers today Kool-aid is on sale 2 for 1. Get your Minnesota savings but tasty orange has left the shelves...

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:31 pm

StillAnEagle wrote:
youngblood08 wrote:When the School Number crunchers have to take a hard look at what needs are they will look at how much High school hockey costs, no matter how great the state tournament is.
Nice try, but I doubt it.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_17222261?nclick_check=1

Read that and tell me if you think the same. Possibly $815 dollars for high school hockey?