Hill Murray

[eastside hockey]

There seems to be a lot of contraversy surrounding Hill Murray and who they play year in and year out. For the sake of a real forum discussion, please refrain from making this thread get ugly. I'm looking for some real solutions and positive debate. You know well enough that if you make this ugly, it will get locked in a heart beat.

Hill Murray being in the in the Classic Suburan cconference is a great fit for all sports but hockey. What are the possible solutions for Hill. I would love to see Hill Murray join the SEC. It would really raise the level of play here, and strenghten the conference. I dont think however that they would be able to compete night in and night out in all the other sports. this is the dilema. Prior to joining The CSC, they were an independant school. we can blast them about their hockey dominance in the CSC, but where do they fare in the other sports. Is it possibe to play just hockey in another conference? Any plausible thoughts?

[HMHockey943]

I think it would be cool to see them in the suburban east, with Stillwater and White Bear.

[wblhockeyfan8]

The SEC would eat Hill-Murray alive in all other sports. Can you have a school who's in the small(er) class in a conference with the big schools?

I know you can in hockey, what about football or basketball?

[defense]

How long has Hill Murray been in this conference?? Do you think that maybe in the long run they will actually elevate play in their current conference? Seems they have at least a few teams that could challenge them(be it not year in and year out).

[eastside hockey]

How long has Hill Murray been in this conference?? Do you think that maybe in the long run they will actually elevate play in their current conference? Seems they have at least a few teams that could challenge them(be it not year in and year out).

I agree that year in and year out some things will change. I dont believe that HM will change that much in there hockey programs dominance. They are not tied to one youth program that has a strong or week class period. There are a few schools that may come up with a win on a certain year. SSP, Tartan, STA, and even Motomedi, may not want to see HM leave. Hill brings a strong game every night, and does give the teams something to grow with playing against them. This would be like having them learn how to play football against Eden Prairie. I dont know how much playing them will help them.

[mnhockey30]

This is similar to what happened with Benilde they were going to join the Lake Conference but they picked North Suburban because the other teams had a better chance to compete with the schools in the North Suburban then the Lake Conference

[eastsideguy]

Considering conference rival St. Thomas has already beaten WBL and Cretin this year and factoring in SSP and Mahtomedi usually being fairly competitive in hockey year in and year out, do we really believe the SEC's upper end teams are stronger?

[eastside hockey]

Considering conference rival St. Thomas has already beaten WBL and Cretin this year and factoring in SSP and Mahtomedi usually being fairly competitive in hockey year in and year out, do we really believe the SEC's upper end teams are stronger?

No, I would like to just see the SEC teams get a crack anually at the Mighty Hill. Some of the SEC teams would also struggle with the Hill factor. Woodbury, Hastings, Roseville, Cretin, and White Bear, have all had there run at top of the coference. The larger school programs I do believe have a better chance at giving Hill a run for their money. Im not trying to take anything away from the competitive prograns in the CSC.

[WHAFightingSaints]

Would the high school league allow Hill to stay in the South Suburban for all other sports and then allow the hockey team to play as an independent?

[eastside hockey]

I guess another thing that we need to look at, is what whould Hill Murray like to happen. My guess is that the Hockey program would also like to be in a higher compitition surrounding. A double diget win doesnt really do anything to help them prepare for sections.

[eastsideguy]

I guess another thing that we need to look at, is what whould Hill Murray like to happen. My guess is that the Hockey program would also like to be in a higher compitition surrounding. A double diget win doesnt really do anything to help them prepare for sections.

With their success in sections over the years I hope you can come up with a better reason than that.

[Pioneerprideguy]

Looking at Hill's success over that past few decades indicates there is no need for change.

[Sparlimb]

The SEC would eat Hill-Murray alive in all other sports. Can you have a school who's in the small(er) class in a conference with the big schools?

I know you can in hockey, what about football or basketball?

I know many of you don't remember, but there was a 10 year period where HM was in a conference with Anoka, Blaine, Coon Rapids, Mounds View, WBL etc...

They did okay in the other sports, but clearly the schools in the conference now are closer to the same size. The CSC took a good step this year in giving Simley and Richfield only one game agaisnt HM. If only Sibley would have followed suit, this last game wouldn't have happened. That helps, because those two games turned into Lakeville South and Eden Prairie this year.

[Hscout000]

I know Elk River plays in the Northwest Suburban for all sports but football, where they play in the Mississippi 8 because they can't compete in the NWSC in Football.

[eastside hockey]

I guess another thing that we need to look at, is what whould Hill Murray like to happen. My guess is that the Hockey program would also like to be in a higher compitition surrounding. A double diget win doesnt really do anything to help them prepare for sections.

With their success in sections over the years I hope you can come up with a better reason than that.

What are you talking about a ( reason )? The schools dont play hockey to appease us on the Forum. The Hockey season is just a small part of the student athletes experience. In my opinion I think Hill murray as well as some of the other schools would be better off if Hill was to play in a different conference. Look how much the Lake conference has helped Bloomington kennedy prepare for sections.

Maybe PPG is right and no change is required. I just dont think so.

[defense]

The SEC would eat Hill-Murray alive in all other sports. Can you have a school who's in the small(er) class in a conference with the big schools?

I know you can in hockey, what about football or basketball?

I know many of you don't remember, but there was a 10 year period where HM was in a conference with Anoka, Blaine, Coon Rapids, Mounds View, WBL etc...

They did okay in the other sports, but clearly the schools in the conference now are closer to the same size. The CSC took a good step this year in giving Simley and Richfield only one game agaisnt HM. If only Sibley would have followed suit, this last game wouldn't have happened. That helps, because those two games turned into Lakeville South and Eden Prairie this year.

So this is more about how to help Hill Murray get a stronger schedule??
OK. Play in Shattuck's league.
If I was the coach of one of the other schools in this conference and Hill wanted to only play us once because they have dominated the series, I would not give in. Let the entire school change conferences just for hockey, then they wouldn't have to play inferior teams anymore.

[HShockeywatcher]

The SEC would eat Hill-Murray alive in all other sports. Can you have a school who's in the small(er) class in a conference with the big schools?

I know you can in hockey, what about football or basketball?

I know many of you don't remember, but there was a 10 year period where HM was in a conference with Anoka, Blaine, Coon Rapids, Mounds View, WBL etc...

They did okay in the other sports, but clearly the schools in the conference now are closer to the same size. The CSC took a good step this year in giving Simley and Richfield only one game agaisnt HM. If only Sibley would have followed suit, this last game wouldn't have happened. That helps, because those two games turned into Lakeville South and Eden Prairie this year.

So this is more about how to help Hill Murray get a stronger schedule??
OK. Play in Shattuck's league.
If I was the coach of one of the other schools in this conference and Hill wanted to only play us once because they have dominated the series, I would not give in. Let the entire school change conferences just for hockey, then they wouldn't have to play inferior teams anymore.

While they have clearly been the best team over the last many years, they do not have the domination on the conference AHA does of theirs. In the last 5 years, they have not been undefeated in the conference once, 2 years ago were in a 3 way tie for 2nd, 4 years ago tied for 1st.

While the bottom teams in the conference are bad, the conference seems to be going in the right direction with Simley and Richfield playing them once. If Sibley followed, they'd be fine. Just two years ago, they lost to 4 different conference teams, including Richfield.

All conferences have "bottom feeders" and this conference is doing it right with them only playing Hill/St Thomas once. Anything short of joining the Lake just for Hockey, or being independent just for hockey, would be very silly.

[jancze5]

I know this is an old argument or recommendation, but why not go to a Private School conference for hockey purposes only. leave all other sports where they are, but a hockey league that is all the privates together. Hill-CDA-STA-Breck-Blake-Prov-BSM-etc..include the St Cloud/Duluth/Rochester schools as well...at the end of the year only one goes to the state tourney, the AAA champion (no pun intended)

I do understand this existed years ago...but the 70's was just that, years ago..

[stpaul]

The CSC has been a very good fit for HM for a lot of reasons. It's the right place geographically with Mahtomedi, North & Tartan within 5 miles and STA, Simley, Sibley & SSP just around the 694/494 corner 10 miles or so to the south. Richfield is the only school with a bit of travel involved especially during rush hour.

This is a pretty balanced conference in most sports. Several different schools have been conference winners in football, basketball and girls sports since it was formed 9 years ago. There are some pretty even and competitive rivalries among HM, North, Tartan, Mahtomedi, and STA in several sports.

In hockey HM has won 6 titles in 9 years. North won it in 2003, Tartan in 2005 and STA in 2009. STA & HM were co-champs in 2007.

Simley & Richfield are playing everyone only once - not just HM.

[hockeyfan893]

A lot of people are looking at this issue ranking hockey as the most important sport in regards to the rest of them. Although hockey tends to be the most popular high school sport in the state, especially on this board, the school / conference / mshsl will not re-conference based on one sport alone.

It would not be fair to the vast majority of the student-athletes who play sports other than hockey.

[eastside hockey]

A lot of people are looking at this issue ranking hockey as the most important sport in regards to the rest of them. Although hockey tends to be the most popular high school sport in the state, especially on this board, the school / conference / mshsl will not re-conference based on one sport alone.

It would not be fair to the vast majority of the student-athletes who play sports other than hockey.

Well said! I know for my own selfish reasons, I would like to see Hill play hockey in the SEC. But this is the other point I was taking. The rest of the sports are competitive and they are within the proximity of all the other schools. It just seems to me that every year there is a game or two that the score gets extremely lopsided, and people jump up and cry murder. I guess its just going to happen year in and year out, and not just with Hill Murray being involved. I too think that the other schools choosing to only play Hill once a year will help. It will give those teams a measure of where they stand with a perrenial power house, yet aloww them to schedule other games with a closer parity.

[MrBoDangles]

I know this is an old argument or recommendation, but why not go to a Private School conference for hockey purposes only. leave all other sports where they are, but a hockey league that is all the privates together. Hill-CDA-STA-Breck-Blake-Prov-BSM-etc..include the St Cloud/Duluth/Rochester schools as well...at the end of the year only one goes to the state tourney, the AAA champion (no pun intended)

I do understand this existed years ago...but the 70's was just that, years ago..

They could also have their own state title like before...... That nobody was interested in.

[TheClipper]

Key points to remember (even if we're being hypothetical):

1. Changing conferences is a long, painful, disruptive process that consumes time and money. Established schools go to great lengths to avoid it. Established conferences are very reluctant to accept newcomers. Hill Murray would likely have a very hard time finding a new conference.

2. The typical poster on this website has no idea just how hard it is for schools to switch conferences.

3. The typical poster on this site grossly overestimates the money available to both public and private school athletic departments.

4. For budgeting and logistical reasons, A.D.'s and Coaches love the stability and familiarity of the same conference year in and year out.

5. A.D.'s/Schools have to consider all sports when choosing a conference. This includes girls' sports.

6. There are very few conferences in this state that are uniformly competitive in all sports.

7. Show me a conference uniformly competitive in all sports, and I'll show you a conference where mediocrity is the rule.

8. The time and money required to establish a truly independent schedule for any team would bankrupt most HS athletic departments. If you go looking to fill a 20 game independent hockey schedule, every one of them is likely to be an away game, and some of them are likely to be far "away". The travel costs alone would kill you.

9. It can be very hard for even established schools, in established conferences, to fill a schedule. Didn't both Wayzata and Eden Prairie get significantly shorted on football games last season?

[karl(east)]

Key points to remember (even if we're being hypothetical):

1. Changing conferences is a long, painful, disruptive process that consumes time and money. Established schools go to great lengths to avoid it. Established conferences are very reluctant to accept newcomers. Hill Murray would likely have a very hard time finding a new conference.

2. The typical poster on this website has no idea just how hard it is for schools to switch conferences.

3. The typical poster on this site grossly overestimates the money available to both public and private school athletic departments.

4. For budgeting and logistical reasons, A.D.'s and Coaches love the stability and familiarity of the same conference year in and year out.

5. A.D.'s/Schools have to consider all sports when choosing a conference. This includes girls' sports.

6. There are very few conferences in this state that are uniformly competitive in all sports.

7. Show me a conference uniformly competitive in all sports, and I'll show you a conference where mediocrity is the rule.

8. The time and money required to establish a truly independent schedule for any team would bankrupt most HS athletic departments. If you go looking to fill a 20 game independent hockey schedule, every one of them is likely to be an away game, and some of them are likely to be far "away". The travel costs alone would kill you.

9. It can be very hard for even established schools, in established conferences, to fill a schedule. Didn't both Wayzata and Eden Prairie get significantly shorted on football games last season?

Great post; I was just about to say something comparable. Duluth East plays independent in every team sport (boys and girls) except girls' hockey, where they are part of a co-op anyway. (It's a function of being the largest school in the area; often they are in the class above everyone else.) Trust me, this is not easy, especially for the teams that don't have the boys' hockey team's reputation. The collapse of the NCC has been rough for the football program.

This is part of why I hate conferences.

[youngblood08]

Hill could switch spots with Park or Hastings it would beneifit both conferences. So Hill will take thier lumps in football and basketball it would just add to the hockey rivalries. Other then that they would be fine. I also heard that STA has applied to play in the SEC for next season.