Catholic Holiday Tournament

[westsidestory]

Looking up at the rafters at the Edina-BSM game tonight got me thinking that, even though a state boys high school hockey championship among Catholic schools could never be resurrected (before 1974-1975, private schools were not allowed to play in the big state high school tournaments), it would be great to have a holiday tournament among the many great Catholic boys' high school hockey teams (e.g., Hill-Murray, AHA, BSM, CDH, STA). There could even be a bracket for smaller schools, like Totino-Grace, Providence Academy, Saint Cloud Cathedral and Rochester Lourdes. While it would rob from some of the great holiday tournaments already (e.g., Saint Louis Park, Schwan's Cup), there would still be plenty of non-Catholic schools to compete in those tournaments. Also, many of the big anticipated match-ups (e.g., Wayzata v. BSM or Minnetonka v. Hill-Murray) could be scheduled outside of the holidays as non-conference games. Just a thought/dream.

[Zamman]

Looking up at the rafters at the Edina-BSM game tonight got me thinking that, even though a state boys high school hockey championship among Catholic schools could never be resurrected (before 1974-1975, private schools were not allowed to play in the big state high school tournaments), it would be great to have a holiday tournament among the many great Catholic boys' high school hockey teams (e.g., Hill-Murray, AHA, BSM, CDH, STA). There could even be a bracket for smaller schools, like Totino-Grace, Providence Academy, Saint Cloud Cathedral and Rochester Lourdes. While it would rob from some of the great holiday tournaments already (e.g., Saint Louis Park, Schwan's Cup), there would still be plenty of non-Catholic schools to compete in those tournaments. Also, many of the big anticipated match-ups (e.g., Wayzata v. BSM or Minnetonka v. Hill-Murray) could be scheduled outside of the holidays as non-conference games. Just a thought/dream.

Been thought of and actually planned by myself and some other people. Problem would be getting all the privates to come on board, finding the right rink and getting sponsors. I thought having this would be great. For the championship game we could try and get the Archbishop to drop the ceremonial puck? Just a thought.

[BodyShots]

Great idea. You could play the games in the Tartan bubble. Plenty of great seats available.

[PuckU126]

Great idea. You could play the games in the Tartan bubble. Plenty of great seats available.

Better yet White Bear Lake's new arena....

Zamman --> Getting the Archbishop to drop the ceremonial puck would be awesome; however, that's another thought/dream as well.

[PoniesDad45]

I would like to volunteer Lily Lake Arena in Stillwater for this

[High Flyer]

Looking up at the rafters at the Edina-BSM game tonight got me thinking that, even though a state boys high school hockey championship among Catholic schools could never be resurrected (before 1974-1975, private schools were not allowed to play in the big state high school tournaments), it would be great to have a holiday tournament among the many great Catholic boys' high school hockey teams (e.g., Hill-Murray, AHA, BSM, CDH, STA). There could even be a bracket for smaller schools, like Totino-Grace, Providence Academy, Saint Cloud Cathedral and Rochester Lourdes. While it would rob from some of the great holiday tournaments already (e.g., Saint Louis Park, Schwan's Cup), there would still be plenty of non-Catholic schools to compete in those tournaments. Also, many of the big anticipated match-ups (e.g., Wayzata v. BSM or Minnetonka v. Hill-Murray) could be scheduled outside of the holidays as non-conference games. Just a thought/dream.

Been thought of and actually planned by myself and some other people. Problem would be getting all the privates to come on board, finding the right rink and getting sponsors. I thought having this would be great. For the championship game we could try and get the Archbishop to drop the ceremonial puck? Just a thought.

Love the idea, though I would rather see a league created

Regardless, some suggestions for a tournament:

Plymouth-Providence (3 rinks)
Seats 1,100

Richfield-AHA (2 rinks)
Seats 1300

STA-
Seats 1400

Parade-TG
Seats 1300

St. Louis Park-BSM
Seats 2000

Aldrich-HM
Seats 3400

State Fair
Seats 5250

Host the tournament mid January F, S & M over the Martin Luther King Holiday or maybe the end of January/early February during the winter carnival, which is also catholic schools week

Also consider hosting a “youth” pee wee & squirt tournament (s) at the same time at surrounding venue sites with championship games before and after high school championship game.

Possible bring in out of state catholic high school teams?

Girls brackets also?

Possible Sponsors
Saint Paul Winter Carnival
The Minnesota State Fair
3M
Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis
National Catholic Educational Association

[PuckU126]

Looking up at the rafters at the Edina-BSM game tonight got me thinking that, even though a state boys high school hockey championship among Catholic schools could never be resurrected (before 1974-1975, private schools were not allowed to play in the big state high school tournaments), it would be great to have a holiday tournament among the many great Catholic boys' high school hockey teams (e.g., Hill-Murray, AHA, BSM, CDH, STA). There could even be a bracket for smaller schools, like Totino-Grace, Providence Academy, Saint Cloud Cathedral and Rochester Lourdes. While it would rob from some of the great holiday tournaments already (e.g., Saint Louis Park, Schwan's Cup), there would still be plenty of non-Catholic schools to compete in those tournaments. Also, many of the big anticipated match-ups (e.g., Wayzata v. BSM or Minnetonka v. Hill-Murray) could be scheduled outside of the holidays as non-conference games. Just a thought/dream.

Been thought of and actually planned by myself and some other people. Problem would be getting all the privates to come on board, finding the right rink and getting sponsors. I thought having this would be great. For the championship game we could try and get the Archbishop to drop the ceremonial puck? Just a thought.

Love the idea, though I would rather see a league created

Regardless, some suggestions for a tournament:

Richfield-AHA (2 rinks)
Seats 1300

STA-
Seats 1400

Aldrich-HM
Seats 3400

State Fair
Seats 5250

Host the tournament mid January F, S & M over the Martin Luther King Holiday or maybe the end of January/early February during the winter carnival, which is also catholic schools week

Also consider hosting a “youth” pee wee & squirt tournament (s) at the same time at surrounding venue sites with championship games before and after high school championship game.

Possible bring in out of state catholic high school teams?

Possible Sponsors
Saint Paul Winter Carnival
The Minnesota State Fair
3M
Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis
National Catholic Educational Association

High Flyer,
Great research and ideas; the list of sponsors is a nice touch as well.

However I doubt 3M's George Buckley would approve...

[High Flyer]

Been thought of and actually planned by myself and some other people. Problem would be getting all the privates to come on board, finding the right rink and getting sponsors. I thought having this would be great. For the championship game we could try and get the Archbishop to drop the ceremonial puck? Just a thought.

Love the idea, though I would rather see a league created

Regardless, some suggestions for a tournament:

Richfield-AHA (2 rinks)
Seats 1300

STA-
Seats 1400

Aldrich-HM
Seats 3400

State Fair
Seats 5250

Host the tournament mid January F, S & M over the Martin Luther King Holiday or maybe the end of January/early February during the winter carnival, which is also catholic schools week

Also consider hosting a “youth” pee wee & squirt tournament (s) at the same time at surrounding venue sites with championship games before and after high school championship game.

Possible bring in out of state catholic high school teams?

Possible Sponsors
Saint Paul Winter Carnival
The Minnesota State Fair
3M
Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis
National Catholic Educational Association

High Flyer,
Great research and ideas; the list of sponsors is a nice touch as well.

However I doubt 3M's George Buckley would approve... :cry:

Yea, doubt you would get the support for a 3M banner at this event. George is on his way out, so maybe he would be willing to donate some of the 32 mil. that will be going his way to a charitable fund???

[PuckU126]

Love the idea, though I would rather see a league created

Regardless, some suggestions for a tournament:

Richfield-AHA (2 rinks)
Seats 1300

STA-
Seats 1400

Aldrich-HM
Seats 3400

State Fair
Seats 5250

Host the tournament mid January F, S & M over the Martin Luther King Holiday or maybe the end of January/early February during the winter carnival, which is also catholic schools week

Also consider hosting a “youth” pee wee & squirt tournament (s) at the same time at surrounding venue sites with championship games before and after high school championship game.

Possible bring in out of state catholic high school teams?

Possible Sponsors
Saint Paul Winter Carnival
The Minnesota State Fair
3M
Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis
National Catholic Educational Association

High Flyer,
Great research and ideas; the list of sponsors is a nice touch as well.

However I doubt 3M's George Buckley would approve...

Yea, doubt you would get the support for a 3M banner at this event. George is on his way out, so maybe he would be willing to donate some of the 32 mil. that will be going his way to a charitable fund???

My emoticons show my response!

And yes, you are correct GWB is mostly like not going to get his contract renewed. (Conflicting business ideology)

[Pioneerprideguy]

I'm sure the public school powers to be would love it. The All-Private Holiday Tourney would be a success and people would say, "Hey, why don't we just put them in their own Section/Class." And the movement would grow. Doubt private schools are interested in initiating the exclusion.

[PuckU126]

I'm sure the public school powers to be would love it. The All-Private Holiday Tourney would be a success and people would say, "Hey, why don't we just put them in their own Section/Class." And the movement would grow. Doubt private schools are interested in initiating the exclusion.

Point taken; however, it isn't that bad of an idea. The public schools would complain less...

[High Flyer]

I'm sure the public school powers to be would love it. The All-Private Holiday Tourney would be a success and people would say, "Hey, why don't we just put them in their own Section/Class." And the movement would grow. Doubt private schools are interested in initiating the exclusion.

Which is kind of why I’ve been pushing for the all catholic school league idea, as it would be a win/win for everyone.

I’m pretty sure the MSHL would still want to see the privates compete vs. the publics come state tournament time ($$$). Private schools would have their own separate league and only would compete with publics come sections/state, or in non-conference match ups or a holiday tournament.

Catholic School League
HM
BSM
AHA
CDH
STA
TG
SCC
Providence
Holy Family
Rochester Lourdes

Home & Home-18 game schedule

[PuckU126]

I'm sure the public school powers to be would love it. The All-Private Holiday Tourney would be a success and people would say, "Hey, why don't we just put them in their own Section/Class." And the movement would grow. Doubt private schools are interested in initiating the exclusion.

Which is kind of why I’ve been pushing for the all catholic school league idea, as it would be a win/win for everyone.

I’m pretty sure the MSHL would still want to see the privates compete vs. the publics come state tournament time ($$$). Private schools would have their own separate league and only would compete with publics come sections/state, or in non-conference match ups or a holiday tournament.

Catholic School League
HM
BSM
AHA
CDH
STA
TG
SCC
Providence
Holy Family
Rochester Lourdes

Home & Home-18 game schedule

First off the current system is working fairly well right now; we shouldn't mess with something that is working.

Second it isn't a win/win when considering the travel costs. Private schools are already hesitant to spend more (without alumni support/boosters) because they cannot rely on the state to support the rest of their school system. (Academics first, sports are 2nd, 3rd.. etc.)

And third, why should there be a private school league? To mitigate feeder programs from losing their players? (Not the answer) More public school titles? (They are just as competitive if not more!)

[High Flyer]

I'm sure the public school powers to be would love it. The All-Private Holiday Tourney would be a success and people would say, "Hey, why don't we just put them in their own Section/Class." And the movement would grow. Doubt private schools are interested in initiating the exclusion.

Which is kind of why I’ve been pushing for the all catholic school league idea, as it would be a win/win for everyone.

I’m pretty sure the MSHL would still want to see the privates compete vs. the publics come state tournament time ($$$). Private schools would have their own separate league and only would compete with publics come sections/state, or in non-conference match ups or a holiday tournament.

Catholic School League
HM
BSM
AHA
CDH
STA
TG
SCC
Providence
Holy Family
Rochester Lourdes

Home & Home-18 game schedule

First off the current system is working fairly well right now; we shouldn't mess with something that is working.

Second it isn't a win/win when considering the travel costs. Private schools are already hesitant to spend more (without alumni support/boosters) because they cannot rely on the state to support the rest of their school system. (Academics first, sports are 2nd, 3rd.. etc.)

And third, why should there be a private school league? To mitigate feeder programs from losing their players? (Not the answer) More public school titles? (They are just as competitive if not more!)

There is a lot of criticism and ill will from (not all) the public school sector as they feel they are forced to compete (conference, section & state) with private schools. Private schools do have an advantage of multiple community attendance area to draw from. I see that in one conference this year a couple of public schools are only playing the privates one time, but counting it as a 4 pt game, so is the current conference set up actually working?

I don’t see how travel cost would be more. 8 of the 10 catholic schools listed are in the metro area, so the cost of the bus ride for conference games for those schools really doesn’t change. And when I look at some of the metro schedules I thought it was interesting to see SCC and Lourdes on a lot of their schedules in non-conference games. I thought about suggesting a metro area catholic league do to the travel requirement to add SCC & Lourdes. Then I looked at their current travel schedule of SCC & Lourdes and seen they already travel to the metro area a half of dozen times each year already to play games, including some vs. some of those catholic schools in the metro.

I personally don’t think a private school catholic league would actually mitigate public school feeder programs from losing players, but it would help in change the perception and maybe foster some good will. Same with the public school conference titles, as if you look at the conferences now how many times does the private school win the conference (more ill will). Then comes sections and they have to do it all over again. Splitting them up at the conference level (which is 2/3 of the season) would bring more public conference titles, along with more public all conference awards (good will) yet still provides the opportunity to compete vs. each other come section/state for the bragging rights.

And from a competition stand point, all the catholic schools would also benefit from a more competitive catholic school conference. Schools won’t see as may all conference honors/titles, but that’s a trade off that I think most coaches would be fine with, considering the gains.

[PuckU126]

Which is kind of why I’ve been pushing for the all catholic school league idea, as it would be a win/win for everyone.

I’m pretty sure the MSHL would still want to see the privates compete vs. the publics come state tournament time ($$$). Private schools would have their own separate league and only would compete with publics come sections/state, or in non-conference match ups or a holiday tournament.

Catholic School League
HM
BSM
AHA
CDH
STA
TG
SCC
Providence
Holy Family
Rochester Lourdes

Home & Home-18 game schedule

First off the current system is working fairly well right now; we shouldn't mess with something that is working.

Second it isn't a win/win when considering the travel costs. Private schools are already hesitant to spend more (without alumni support/boosters) because they cannot rely on the state to support the rest of their school system. (Academics first, sports are 2nd, 3rd.. etc.)

And third, why should there be a private school league? To mitigate feeder programs from losing their players? (Not the answer) More public school titles? (They are just as competitive if not more!)

There is a lot of criticism and ill will from (not all) the public school sector as they feel they are forced to compete (conference, section & state) with private schools. Private schools do have an advantage of multiple community attendance area to draw from. I see that in one conference this year a couple of public schools are only playing the privates one time, but counting it as a 4 pt game, so is the current conference set up actually working?

I don’t see how travel cost would be more. 8 of the 10 catholic schools listed are in the metro area, so the cost of the bus ride for conference games for those schools really doesn’t change. And when I look at some of the metro schedules I thought it was interesting to see SCC and Lourdes on a lot of their schedules in non-conference games. I thought about suggesting a metro area catholic league do to the travel requirement to add SCC & Lourdes. Then I looked at their current travel schedule of SCC & Lourdes and seen they already travel to the metro area a half of dozen times each year already to play games, including some vs. some of those catholic schools in the metro.

I personally don’t think a private school catholic league would actually mitigate public school feeder programs from losing players, but it would help in change the perception and maybe foster some good will. Same with the public school conference titles, as if you look at the conferences now how many times does the private school win the conference (more ill will). Then comes sections and they have to do it all over again. Splitting them up at the conference level (which is 2/3 of the season) would bring more public conference titles, along with more public all conference awards (good will) yet still provides the opportunity to compete vs. each other come section/state for the bragging rights.

And from a competition stand point, all the catholic schools would also benefit from a more competitive catholic school conference. Schools won’t see as may all conference honors/titles, but that’s a trade off that I think most coaches would be fine with, considering the gains.

Flyer, point taken and thanks for your rebuttal. You have great points and they do support your idea as well. I think the holiday tourney would be nice; however, the SLP and Schwan tourney may not be as attractive (depending on how the chosen teams are performing) as it is now. (this is a norm) However, myself, ppg, and many other fans, players, and coaches are comfortable with system that is currently in place. And in addition I just flat out do not like the notion of segregating the private and public school teams, regardless if its set up like in a conference. I just don't see the reason.

[goldy313]

The problem with a league is these schools are already in a league with other teams. Lourdes plays in the Hiawatha Valley which only has 2 other members play hockey so it would be a non issue for them. Cretin is a power in most sports and playing in a catholic league probably wouldn't interest them in any way, for them to tell the SEC they want out in hockey would go over real well in conference that didn't want them anyway. AHA would probably love to leave the Missota in hockey but they need the Missota for the rest of their sports so they stay.

I like the tournament idea but as for a league, well, these schools let the Don Bosco disband for a reason. They're probably a lot better off where they are now.

[Zamman]

The problem with a league is these schools are already in a league with other teams. Lourdes plays in the Hiawatha Valley which only has 2 other members play hockey so it would be a non issue for them. Cretin is a power in most sports and playing in a catholic league probably wouldn't interest them in any way, for them to tell the SEC they want out in hockey would go over real well in conference that didn't want them anyway. AHA would probably love to leave the Missota in hockey but they need the Missota for the rest of their sports so they stay.

I like the tournament idea but as for a league, well, these schools let the Don Bosco disband for a reason. They're probably a lot better off where they are now.

Don Bosco, I played in that conference.....

[BodyShots]

Also consider hosting a “youth” pee wee & squirt tournament (s) at the same time at surrounding venue sites with championship games before and after high school championship game.

I didn't know these Private schools had "Youth" programs!

[BodyShots]

Which is kind of why I’ve been pushing for the all catholic school league idea, as it would be a win/win for everyone.

I’m pretty sure the MSHL would still want to see the privates compete vs. the publics come state tournament time ($$$). Private schools would have their own separate league and only would compete with publics come sections/state, or in non-conference match ups or a holiday tournament.

Catholic School League
HM
BSM
AHA
CDH
STA
TG
SCC
Providence
Holy Family
Rochester Lourdes

Home & Home-18 game schedule

I like this proposal... Great idea.

[old goalie85]

Hill has six or seven.

[puck81]

I like the Catholic League idea. I bet BSM hockey would love to leave the conference they are currently in. The competiton level in hockey is not helping them one bit.

I reject this idea that the "government " schools somehow "own the rights" to ANY player that plays in any particular youth hockey program. The government school districts have nothing to do with paying for or organizing these youth programs at all. It's a free country and parents can send their kids to any school they want to. Besides, the government schools expelled GOD years ago so what do they expect a good Catholic kid to do?

[PuckU126]

So why has the MSHL not done this? Have there ever been talks or plans to construct such a set up?

[old goalie85]

Cretin in football,baseball need to stay where they are. Tourny yes, league no..

[High Flyer]

Also consider hosting a “youth” pee wee & squirt tournament (s) at the same time at surrounding venue sites with championship games before and after high school championship game.

I didn't know these Private schools had "Youth" programs!

ha, ha, guess I walked into that one...just a little more public ill will to stoke the fire. This will get you going...

You see, there is a master plan where all the catholic schools are going to join force for just one weekend, lets say during cathloic schools week which is also the winter carnavil week. This tournament will be sponsored by National Catholic Educational Association, the Archdiocese of St. Paul/Minneapolis and Saint Paul Winter Carnival.

There will boys and girls tournaments with two high school divisions, a Peewee A & Peewee B division, 12U A & B, Squirt A & B, 10U A & B.

There will 96 teams total playing over the weekend (like the swans cup), with preliminary games at each of the private schools and the high school finals at the State Fair & Aldrich. At each site there will be like a mini expo with all the cathloic schools represented providing information to the squirt & peewee families. Tours of the cathloic site schools will be allowed with access to the staff for questions.

The tournament would be friday, saturday, sunday for the youth and thurs, fri, sat and mon for the high school. Evenings will primarly be high school games and all youth will be allowed to attend any high school game for free.

Can you see all those HM prospects wearing pioneer caps, with a face painted logo on thier cheeks, in the stands cheering on HM, waving a HM hankie?

[BodyShots]

Can you see all those HM prospects wearing pioneer caps, with a face painted logo on thier cheeks, in the stands cheering on HM, waving a HM hankie?

I see it at every HM home game now. But...they're not called prospects. They look more like alumns, or old high school hockey wanna bees!