USAH to ban checking in pee-wee hockey

[HShockeywatcher]

As an official who used to do hockey and still does football this seems like a really knee jerk reaction if it is indeed implemented to prevent injuries.

In football there used to be a rule that you had to block with your arms in and palms facing your body, they changed it to also allow open hand blocking with your arms extended provided your arms stay within the frame of your body. A common sense rule change to acknowledge the reality of the game. Just last summer at an officials conference I had a conversation with a couple of guys, one being a RIC from Illinois ( Ithink it was Ill.) about checking. The easiest solution to implement would be to penalize the hitter if his arms come up or away from his body by more than 45 degrees from anatomical neutral, arms at the side. If the arms come up then the hit is being delivered with the hands, forearm, or elbow which is illegal.

The reason I brought up the football analogy is the determination of a penalty, usually holding, isn't always the act of grabbing the opponent, it's the position of the arm(s) which requires good coaching and good technique. In hockey instead of focusing on good coaching and good technique they're just going to ban it outright which is little more than sticking their head in the sand. There is such a simple solution, in my opinion at least, that it makes me wonder what the heck is going on with USA Hockey.

I also wanted to quote what observer said and comment on a few things, but my post would've been long.

More to play devil's advocate than to disagree (as I could see both sides), I agree that the best solution is to teach it better and correctly from the beginning...but there is no way to make sure that happens.
I can't speak for hockey, but along with the analogy, there's a lot of talk with tackling "correctly" lately. The reason it's happening in the NFL is that they've always been able to and that's probably how they were taught.

Many have said this will increase injury; if everyone is doing this everyone would be at the same disadvantage, not just certain teams. If your son's team isn't checking then he finally does, he isn't going to be playing against kids who have been for a while.
Additionally, I would say that (like tackling) you can teach how/when to do it without actually doing it.

observer commented that the game is "now about passing, puck control and staying out of the box." If that's the case, why is this a big deal? If you are good enough at these things, guys have trouble checking you. Why not focus on the hockey skills and let the checking come later? In my initial premise, there is no way to make sure it's being taught correctly, which means if it's not, then guys later have to re-teach. If you have less people having to teach, that could be better.

Just some food for thought.

[northwoods oldtimer]

[PuckU126]

[O-townClown]

It's funny. I'm reading the posts. Riddle me this:

When Minnesota Hockey wants to preserve status quo and stick to community-based hockey, the hardcore self-proclaimed progressives say that Tier I and a club structure is needed. The argument is that change is needed to improve things...Minnesota can't be stuck in the mud and let the rest of the world pass it by.

When USA Hockey wants to be progressive and evolve to a level that their hockey experts believe will better develop skilled players, the staunch status quo advocates throw out sensationalist language like this is the worst thing ever concocted.

I think people just throw out a bunch of "reasoning" to conform to their world view. Shouldn't we be commending the powers that be for actually studying the game, analyzing research, and discussing the matter before deciding what's best?

I don't care if they allow full checking in Pee Wees or not. I'm more concerned with the more-contact-at-younger-ages part. The more contact the sooner the better off I think we'll be.

If contact is allowed, chances are you can lean, rub, pin, pinch, squeeze, and more. If checking is disallowed aren't we just talking about eliminating things where you try to knock kids down?

[old goalie85]

Let them check at squirts & we have no problems, we all know this. This is repression, who are these guys?

[PuckU126]

It's funny. I'm reading the posts. Riddle me this:

When Minnesota Hockey wants to preserve status quo and stick to community-based hockey, the hardcore self-proclaimed progressives say that Tier I and a club structure is needed. The argument is that change is needed to improve things...Minnesota can't be stuck in the mud and let the rest of the world pass it by.

Can we drop out of USA hockey. Start our own. Just play mn teams & canucks. Wisc. will follow. So will the Dakotas.

Yes, of course, if you cna find the leadership to get it done.

AAU was considering moving into ice hockey, perhaps this will give them momentum.

If this passes, maybe elliott's way is the thing to do in order to preserve the status quo of MN hockey; however, a large obstacle is the leadership and money needed to develop and run such a program.

[brandy38]

Let them check at squirts & we have no problems, we all know this.

I don't mean to pick on you as at least one other poster said it too, but they'll just learn to hit high at a younger age. There are kids who try to check in squirt hockey. Imagine if they were given legal freedom to do it. Pee wees is the adequate time to start checking...it's too bad many coaches are so inadequate at teaching the skill and maintaining discipline in it.

[TheSiouxSuck]

The physical maturity between peewee's is much less than the discrepancy between bantams. This reason alone should be reason enough as to why USA hockey would leave checking in its current form. My main reason for being against this is the physical development some players have around 14 years old. Would you rather have them learn to check when the size discrepancy is maybe 30 pounds or 100 pounds. Coaching at the Bantam level I can honestly say I have two players around 4'8 and 80 lbs and multiple players above 6'0 and 170lbs. Players failing to learn the necessary skills involved in giving and recieving a check when the physical development is this deviated is just a joke.

Also, for those of us in Minnesota (especially Northern Minnesota) we frequently play canadian teams. Are we now supposed to invite/attend Canadian teams tournaments where checking is allowed at the peewee level and now not check or have our kids overwhelmed at that age?

This reminds so much of that damn blue puck USA hockey came up with years ago for squirts which was a terrible idea. Just leave the game alone!

If you really want to limit injuries, then just enforce the actual rules. Its the same concept the NHL took when facing all the obstruction calls. Havings played, reffed, and coached I can tell you that calling a kid for a hit from behind as a two and a ten (when its an actual hit from behind) is a sufficient deterrent towards reckless behavior.

[Mite-dad]

I thought Canada had areas where they didn't allow checking at the pw level.

Also, I watched the US vs. Can game and I thought Can was incredibly cheap. I thought several penalties should have been called for late hits/illegal hits. I'd much rather watch European hockey than Can thug hockey. When it gets to the point that hitting is more important than skill to win games, the game loses interest to me and millions of other potential viewers in the US.

I, for one, hope this rule does go into effect and think that many of you folks are blowing its effects out of proportion. The very few players that make it to the next level or two, will have no ill effects from it and might be more skilled because of it.

Also, many of you on here are very hypocritical. Rarely do I see a thread about big hits or big hitters. Its all about scorers and skilled players that impress people.

[WB6162]

I posted proposed USAH rule changes in youth section but thought some on this forum may be interested.

Looks like checking in peewees will not be allowed. This rule is scheduled for passing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opionions on effect on HS hockey?????

It means absolutely nothing except they are trying to protect smaller kids from injury. This will not affect development at all. It's a good rule.

For the vast majority of players this will make youth hockey a more enjoyable activity. The .01% of players who actually have a chance of making an olympic team will be doing their own training on the side anyway and who cares about them.

[nahc]

If one logs on to the youth hockey forum, you get a TOTALLY differant view from the posters. Most think that waiting until checking until Bantams is a good thing.........I totally disagree..........and these are probably the parents of kids who may be smaller, not physical, and see checking as not allowing their son or daughter to skate freely up and down the ice with the puck.......or their child may have suffered their first bloody lip, etc from being checked and they were outraged. I have asked but received 0 stats on checking at the differant age levels and the number of concussions from the past years...........ie 20 years ago, compared to 15 years ago, 10 years ago, etc. A VERY TYPICAL knee-jerk reaction...........this is why EVERYONE is playing some type of AAA hockey during the year, ie in order to prepare their skaters for upper level hockey and competition............

Just my 2 Cents............

[WB6162]

If one logs on to the youth hockey forum, you get a TOTALLY differant view from the posters. Most think that waiting until checking until Bantams is a good thing.........I totally disagree..........and these are probably the parents of kids who may be smaller, not physical, and see checking as not allowing their son or daughter to skate freely up and down the ice with the puck.......or their child may have suffered their first bloody lip, etc from being checked and they were outraged. I have asked but received 0 stats on checking at the differant age levels and the number of concussions from the past years...........ie 20 years ago, compared to 15 years ago, 10 years ago, etc. A VERY TYPICAL knee-jerk reaction...........this is why EVERYONE is playing some type of AAA hockey during the year, ie in order to prepare their skaters for upper level hockey and competition............

Just my 2 Cents............

I would think that AAA hockey will follow suit with these rules.

[Mite-dad]

On my son's pw team last year 4 players received 5 concussions directly related to checking. One player with temporary paralysis (thank God he's now fine). Three of the four were arguably the biggest, strongest kids on the team. It's not isolated to the smallest kids on the team.

[WB6162]

On my son's pw team last year 4 players received 5 concussions directly related to checking. One player with temporary paralysis (thank God he's now fine). Three of the four were arguably the biggest, strongest kids on the team. It's not isolated to the smallest kids on the team.

Agreed, and I think you can look for the ban to be expanded to Bantams in the near future as well.

[TheSiouxSuck]

I understand the effort to prevent injuries, but honestly, they need to be tought when everyone is still on a fairly equal maturity level. The peewee age is a great level to begin introducing contect because size difference between players is relatively small.

Kids learning to check, especially the players who physically develop quickly, at the bantam level is going to lead to MORE injuries, not less. Again the size difference between a first year bantam and a second year bantam is a huge change. If you are trying to limit injuries and body contact being used at intimidation, this is NOT the way to do it!

[Mite-dad]

I understand the effort to prevent injuries, but honestly, they need to be tought when everyone is still on a fairly equal maturity level. The peewee age is a great level to begin introducing contect because size difference between players is relatively small.

Kids learning to check, especially the players who physically develop quickly, at the bantam level is going to lead to MORE injuries, not less. Again the size difference between a first year bantam and a second year bantam is a huge change. If you are trying to limit injuries and body contact being used at intimidation, this is NOT the way to do it!

While size differences are an issue I suppose, I personally feel that kids, regardless of size, are stronger, better and more skilled at all aspects of the game at the Bantam level. For this reason they are better prepared to deliver and, more importantly, to receive checks. In PWs, there is often a fairly large discrepency in skill level on teams, especially in smaller associations, that puts kids at risk.

[hipcheck]

Get rid of the face masks. Players will see the ice better, have their heads up and avoid the dangerous collisions we see now days. Sure the checking from behind will still occur,(it shouldn't) but since the introduction of the full face mask, there has been an epidemic of shoulder injuries and concussions due to the fact that players have their heads down.

[TheSiouxSuck]

I understand the effort to prevent injuries, but honestly, they need to be tought when everyone is still on a fairly equal maturity level. The peewee age is a great level to begin introducing contect because size difference between players is relatively small.

Kids learning to check, especially the players who physically develop quickly, at the bantam level is going to lead to MORE injuries, not less. Again the size difference between a first year bantam and a second year bantam is a huge change. If you are trying to limit injuries and body contact being used at intimidation, this is NOT the way to do it!

While size differences are an issue I suppose, I personally feel that kids, regardless of size, are stronger, better and more skilled at all aspects of the game at the Bantam level. For this reason they are better prepared to deliver and, more importantly, to receive checks. In PWs, there is often a fairly large discrepency in skill level on teams, especially in smaller associations, that puts kids at risk.

While I do see your point I still think it is dangerous to start checking at the bantam level. All kids go through the recklessness when learning to check and the damage they can inflict upon each other only increases exponentially as they become physically stronger.

You state that kids at the bantam level are "stronger, better and more skilled at all aspects of the game at the Bantam level." All aspects except body contact, thanks to USA hockey.

[DumpandChase1]

Plus the fact that all those 1st year bantams have spent the last 4 years of playing with their heads down looking at the puck because they knew they would not be hit. This could get real ugly.

[Mite-dad]

Plus the fact that all those 1st year bantams have spent the last 4 years of playing with their heads down looking at the puck because they knew they would not be hit. This could get real ugly.

Learning to skate with your head up should not be taught by the opposing team drilling you at center ice, it should be a skill acquired during practice. If a kid is still looking down at the puck as a bantam, it might be time to hang them up or change your association's coaching strategy. Also, I don't think that USAH is removing body contact totally. We have been trying to teach the kids at the squirt level here that it is ok to be "physical".

[DumpandChase1]

You can teach them all you want in squirts and pee-wees to keep their heads up, but for most kids, until they get hit with their head down, they wont do it. When that happens for the first time at the bantam level, kids are going to get seriously hurt

[TheSiouxSuck]

You can teach them all you want in squirts and pee-wees to keep their heads up, but for most kids, until they get hit with their head down, they wont do it. When that happens for the first time at the bantam level, kids are going to get seriously hurt

Case in point: Eric Lindros. I dont think it was the associations fault that he never learned to play with his head up, I'd be willing to bet it was because he never got his bell rung as a child because he was simply bigger and stronger than his peers.

If anything, I think introducing checking at the squirt level would be an easier fix. Kids who weight 50 lbs hitting each other at a slow speed is much less dangerous than the speed at which players can initiate contact at the bantam level.

[GopherPuck15]

The adjustment for players from bantams to high school is already a great one for many average high school players. So now instead of four years of learning how to use speed and skill, along with CHECKING legally, to use the body as a tool to create turnovers and gain possesion of the puck, kids will only have two years to try and help prepare themselves for high school hockey? What a joke.

[Mite-dad]

I'm starting to think that this is an issue that really doesn't have a "best" answer. There are negatives/positives to both scenarios. I think the best answer is to do a better job of teaching checking, angling, body contact, etc.; and a better job of enforcing current rules that are in place. Perhaps an "unnecessary roughness" penalty such as that in football would be appropriate for those hits that appear legal but are unnecessarily hard. Totally subjective I know, but worth considering?

[StillAnEagle]

You can teach them all you want in squirts and pee-wees to keep their heads up, but for most kids, until they get hit with their head down, they wont do it. When that happens for the first time at the bantam level, kids are going to get seriously hurt

Case in point: Eric Lindros. I dont think it was the associations fault that he never learned to play with his head up, I'd be willing to bet it was because he never got his bell rung as a child because he was simply bigger and stronger than his peers.

If anything, I think introducing checking at the squirt level would be an easier fix. Kids who weight 50 lbs hitting each other at a slow speed is much less dangerous than the speed at which players can initiate contact at the bantam level.

A 50 lb squirt is a very small squirt btw.