NO CHECKING UNTILL BANTAMS

[MnMade-4-Life]

... What about MN going full birth years like other states and eliminate 97's hitting 99's. Just a thought.

This is the one change MN hockey should be worried about. A very simple / effective choice that would help greatly.

It's for the kids! Think about the children!!!

[SECoach]

My feelings are not hurt but thanks for your concern. I simply don't believe that the way to teach players to handle the puck with their head up is fear of being pasted. I'll asume it's beneath you but girls seem to learn to handle the puck and become very good. They have to or another player will take an angle, go shoulder to shoulder, lean them into the boards, and take the puck. Are you telling me these squirts you see dominate are all skating with their head down?

Using checking as a method to create heads up play simply causes players to dump it off before the hit at these ages. Certainly all players don't fall into this category, but we are trying to create MORE players that are skilled and capable rather than closing them out of the game before they have a chance to become skilled players. Broaden the base in my opinion is a better way to upgrade the game.

[hockeyfan74]

SE - Another bad assumption on your part. I coached girls hockey for 14 years. Both at the youth and varsity levels. The only reason I stopped was time constraints and my boys were getting older. Most of my teams were considered too physical because I taught them angling and skating through the hands. I respect your opinion, but we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject. My opinion is if USA hockey takes checking away form Pee-wees they are making a mistake. I know it will have an adverse effect on association hockey in MN if they make this move. I know of a lot of first year pee-wees that are already talking about their options for next year. I hope that doesn't happen.

[Bronc]

SE - Another bad assumption on your part. I coached girls hockey for 14 years. Both at the youth and varsity levels. The only reason I stopped was time constraints and my boys were getting older. Most of my teams were considered too physical because I taught them angling and skating through the hands. I respect your opinion, but we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject. My opinion is if USA hockey takes checking away form Pee-wees they are making a mistake. I know it will have an adverse effect on association hockey in MN if they make this move. I know of a lot of first year pee-wees that are already talking about their options for next year. I hope that doesn't happen.

If this move is voted in I believe the will be a mass exodus of players out of MN Hockey. You will not broaden it by diluting it and losing players. You will be left with few rec players (even the lower levels will not want to play they will want to play where they eventually want to get to with the upper end players).

I am a huge supporter of local community based hockey and playing for your town. With this change I do not blame anyone for leaving association hockey or quitting all together.

There will be a large enough recoil that even the outlying areas will leave and a new program will be formed.

Sad to say, but true.

[MnMade-4-Life]

... I know of a lot of first year pee-wees that are already talking about their options for next year. I hope that doesn't happen.

I have to agree with this statement, I had a talk with a couple boys on my son's squirt team that are/were looking at going in to Pee Wee next year thanks to grade eligibility. Which seemed like a good idea in regards to spending the summer checking anyways. Now, well I think the Fire may be able to field two teams next year ... let's just hope there's enough WI kids to fill two teams.

[elliott70]

... I know of a lot of first year pee-wees that are already talking about their options for next year. I hope that doesn't happen.

I have to agree with this statement, I had a talk with a couple boys on my son's squirt team that are/were looking at going in to Pee Wee next year thanks to grade eligibility. Which seemed like a good idea in regards to spending the summer checking anyways. Now, well I think the Fire may be able to field two teams next year ... let's just hope there's enough WI kids to fill two teams.

The Fire are USAH registered and would be subject to the 'no check' rule (if passed) as well.

[MnMade-4-Life]

... I know of a lot of first year pee-wees that are already talking about their options for next year. I hope that doesn't happen.

I have to agree with this statement, I had a talk with a couple boys on my son's squirt team that are/were looking at going in to Pee Wee next year thanks to grade eligibility. Which seemed like a good idea in regards to spending the summer checking anyways. Now, well I think the Fire may be able to field two teams next year ... let's just hope there's enough WI kids to fill two teams.

The Fire are USAH registered and would be subject to the 'no check' rule (if passed) as well.

did not know that ...

how would this affect summer hockey???

[the_juiceman]

SE - I apologize if I hurt your feelings. Sometimes I forget grown adults can be more sensitive than children. As I said in my last post - you seem to think people want to keep checking because of the BIG hit. That is not the point at all. To me it is about forming good habits and in my opinion the younger the player is the better of the player will be. I know that two years ago when my son was a 1st year squirt there were some kids that completely dominated and took over games. Two years later I have seen those same players - still very good players, but they can't take over a game as easily. I think checking when taught and done properly is a very important part of the game. In my opinion waiting two more years could reinforce bad habits and make them even harder to break. At squirts you can get away with heads down hockey, now you let them do it for two more years at pee-wees then try to break that at bantams - not good. Sometimes no matter how much you tell a player to keep their head up they have to learn on their own and unfortunately that means getting hit. Where we live kids can play tackle football in 3rd grade. Now you are talking 8 and 9 year olds. Both my boys had great coaches that took the first two weeks and went over how to tackle and get tackled. Once again we come back to working with the players on how to hit the right way and be prepared for the hit. What about MN going full birth years like other states and eliminate 97's hitting 99's. Just a thought.

74--you are spot on--imo-- well said!!

[O-townClown]

did not know that ...

how would this affect summer hockey???

Did not realize the Fire are a USA Hockey registered team that plays other USA Hockey registered teams?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but there seems to be a great deal of misinformation here.

[hockeyfan74]

Elliot yes you are correct the the ruling would effect the fire, however I was not talking about the fire. There is a little thing at the made called the Pee-wee supplemental league and my guess is next year it won't be supplemental. Trust me I am not a big made fan, but if they take checking away from Pee-wees the Pee-wee choice league (just a guess) may be the only option for Pee-wees that want to continue to check. Could be a big money maker for Bernie - I am sure he hopes the rule is passed. Once again I don't want to and I know the people I have talked with don't want to leave their associations, but USA hockey may force our hand.

[elliott70]

I have to agree with this statement, I had a talk with a couple boys on my son's squirt team that are/were looking at going in to Pee Wee next year thanks to grade eligibility. Which seemed like a good idea in regards to spending the summer checking anyways. Now, well I think the Fire may be able to field two teams next year ... let's just hope there's enough WI kids to fill two teams.

The Fire are USAH registered and would be subject to the 'no check' rule (if passed) as well.

did not know that ...

how would this affect summer hockey???

It depends on th eorganizatins involved.
Most are independent but follow the USAH rule book.
Most would not have to follow it.

[elliott70]

Elliot yes you are correct the the ruling would effect the fire, however I was not talking about the fire. There is a little thing at the made called the Pee-wee supplemental league and my guess is next year it won't be supplemental. Trust me I am not a big made fan, but if they take checking away from Pee-wees the Pee-wee choice league (just a guess) may be the only option for Pee-wees that want to continue to check. Could be a big money maker for Bernie - I am sure he hopes the rule is passed. Once again I don't want to and I know the people I have talked with don't want to leave their associations, but USA hockey may force our hand.

MM could use checking as they are not sanctioned team.
If this becomes the rule it is very possible that more such clubs would open up - especially inthe metro area.
USAH needs to be careeful.
I am not sure about the money issue but they safety issue gets marred between doing something to make players better AND protect them and just making a change.

The physics of hockey arre such that you will always have dramatic collisions, size and speed.
More education of all and enforcement of existing rules is the best method in my opinion. Perhaps more major penalties.

[NSHA Rules]

Elliot yes you are correct the the ruling would effect the fire, however I was not talking about the fire. There is a little thing at the made called the Pee-wee supplemental league and my guess is next year it won't be supplemental. Trust me I am not a big made fan, but if they take checking away from Pee-wees the Pee-wee choice league (just a guess) may be the only option for Pee-wees that want to continue to check. Could be a big money maker for Bernie - I am sure he hopes the rule is passed. Once again I don't want to and I know the people I have talked with don't want to leave their associations, but USA hockey may force our hand.

MM could use checking as they are not sanctioned team.
If this becomes the rule it is very possible that more such clubs would open up - especially inthe metro area.
USAH needs to be careeful.
I am not sure about the money issue but they safety issue gets marred between doing something to make players better AND protect them and just making a change.

The physics of hockey arre such that you will always have dramatic collisions, size and speed.
More education of all and enforcement of existing rules is the best method in my opinion. Perhaps more major penalties.

Hate to say it but I think most people would love to see an extension of the AAA summer season to the winter season. The problem is association hockey rules the ice time in the winter and unless you own the ice like MM you don't have a chance. The teams up north would have a tough time securing ice time to try and start a state wide league.

[MnMade-4-Life]

did not know that ...

how would this affect summer hockey???

Did not realize the Fire are a USA Hockey registered team that plays other USA Hockey registered teams?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but there seems to be a great deal of misinformation here.

I always TRY to do my due dilligence regarding our family's choices in hockey. But as many of us know, the coaches will sell you a pile of lies and deception if they want your kid in their program.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

did not know that ...

how would this affect summer hockey???

Did not realize the Fire are a USA Hockey registered team that plays other USA Hockey registered teams?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but there seems to be a great deal of misinformation here.

I always TRY to do my due dilligence regarding our family's choices in hockey. But as many of us know, the coaches will sell you a pile of lies and deception if they want your kid in their program.

Due diligence is more than just taking the coaches word for it. But thanks for the glimpse into how Mn Made works and sells its program.

[MnMade-4-Life]

Did not realize the Fire are a USA Hockey registered team that plays other USA Hockey registered teams?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but there seems to be a great deal of misinformation here.

I always TRY to do my due dilligence regarding our family's choices in hockey. But as many of us know, the coaches will sell you a pile of lies and deception if they want your kid in their program.

Due diligence is more than just taking the coaches word for it. But thanks for the glimpse into how Mn Made works and sells its program.

Nice attempt at putting words into my mouth, but I deem it a failed attempt at best.

I do have fingers I could point at a certain program. But I, unlike so many others on this forum, will actually take responsibility for my own decision! So please go on pointing fingers at everyone but yourself for what happens to you and yours. Just know that it is quite obvious that hurt feelings are involved. I am sure your kids still love you, so start the healing process there.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

I always TRY to do my due dilligence regarding our family's choices in hockey. But as many of us know, the coaches will sell you a pile of lies and deception if they want your kid in their program.

Due diligence is more than just taking the coaches word for it. But thanks for the glimpse into how Mn Made works and sells its program.

Nice attempt at putting words into my mouth, but I deem it a failed attempt at best.

I do have fingers I could point at a certain program. But I, unlike so many others on this forum, will actually take responsibility for my own decision! So please go on pointing fingers at everyone but yourself for what happens to you and yours. Just know that it is quite obvious that hurt feelings are involved. I am sure your kids still love you, so start the healing process there.

Wow, your a piece of work. I do take full responsibility, I'm not the one pointing fingers anywhere or proclaiming coaches are lying to me.

No need to put words in your mouth, you did quite good yourself. You were ignorant about the fire and summer hockey when corrected you say coaches tell lies. I just made the link given your moniker you so proudly sport.

[MnMade-4-Life]

Due diligence is more than just taking the coaches word for it. But thanks for the glimpse into how Mn Made works and sells its program.

Nice attempt at putting words into my mouth, but I deem it a failed attempt at best.

I do have fingers I could point at a certain program. But I, unlike so many others on this forum, will actually take responsibility for my own decision! So please go on pointing fingers at everyone but yourself for what happens to you and yours. Just know that it is quite obvious that hurt feelings are involved. I am sure your kids still love you, so start the healing process there.

Wow, your a piece of work. I do take full responsibility, I'm not the one pointing fingers anywhere or proclaiming coaches are lying to me.

No need to put words in your mouth, you did quite good yourself. You were ignorant about the fire and summer hockey when corrected you say coaches tell lies. I just made the link given your moniker you so proudly sport.

wow, such anger over a moniker. It's ok, really it is.

My response was in respect to O-town stating that there is alot of misinformation out there. He is correct, there is.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

Nice attempt at putting words into my mouth, but I deem it a failed attempt at best.

I do have fingers I could point at a certain program. But I, unlike so many others on this forum, will actually take responsibility for my own decision! So please go on pointing fingers at everyone but yourself for what happens to you and yours. Just know that it is quite obvious that hurt feelings are involved. I am sure your kids still love you, so start the healing process there.

Wow, your a piece of work. I do take full responsibility, I'm not the one pointing fingers anywhere or proclaiming coaches are lying to me.

No need to put words in your mouth, you did quite good yourself. You were ignorant about the fire and summer hockey when corrected you say coaches tell lies. I just made the link given your moniker you so proudly sport.

wow, such anger over a moniker. It's ok, really it is.

My response was in respect to O-town stating that there is alot of misinformation out there. He is correct, there is.

No anger over moniker or anything but its pretty funny reading your condescending posts mixed in with your ignorance about how things work ... go ahead take another shot at me. Its all good.

[elliott70]

This thread has been a good discussion, perhaps we can keep it that way and not get it locked up.

[MnMade-4-Life]

Wow, your a piece of work. I do take full responsibility, I'm not the one pointing fingers anywhere or proclaiming coaches are lying to me.

No need to put words in your mouth, you did quite good yourself. You were ignorant about the fire and summer hockey when corrected you say coaches tell lies. I just made the link given your moniker you so proudly sport.

wow, such anger over a moniker. It's ok, really it is.

My response was in respect to O-town stating that there is alot of misinformation out there. He is correct, there is.

No anger over moniker or anything but its pretty funny reading your condescending posts mixed in with your ignorance about how things work ... go ahead take another shot at me. Its all good.

*SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCH*

[OrangeKoolaid]

hockeyfan74 - The MM Peewee supplemental league going full time is a great idea but unfortunately I don't see it happening. Right now Bernie doesn't have the ice time available to go full time. They (MM) don't think that there would be enough interest in a full time Peewee league. They may change their mind after the success of the league this year but they still face the issue of lack of ice time. Right now the Peewee Choice League doesn't allow full checking only rubouts. The Peewee League was designed for the kids to work on their skills and not to work on their checking. The league is made up of 99's - 97's, boys, girls, and I know of at least 2 really good squirts playing as well. I believe if they allowed checking in the supplimental league things would get ugly real fast. If the league did go full time they would definitely allow checking but some of the boys and girls would then have a choice to make.

[Snowmass]

Another idea is to have 2 leagues: A 'Sally' league where 2 hand touch is in force, all kids 'win' and get trophies and we can all sing kumbia after each game. And a 'common sense' league where we teach sportsmanship, team work, winning, losing, CHECKING properly etc... Do we really want 13 year olds (1st year bantams) checking for the 1st time ever? Dont we have enough checking from behind etc...with the 1st year peewees (who's weight is way less than a bantam)?

[itsjustkidshockey]

At what point do we say enough is enough? This thread really has me fired up and it goes a lot deeper than hockey. When I was a kid I got spanked by my dad when i did something wrong, teachers could actually discipline kids, and you only got a trophy when you deserved it for winning.

Unfortunately in the past 15 years, tough love has gone by the wayside and it's not just a hockey thing. It's okay for kids to live at home as long as they want and as long as you try you're winner. We call this the "Pussifaction of America" and it's a huge reason why we're in the economic mess we're in today.

Our kids are handed everything, PS3, $200 sticks, iPods, on and on. At what point do we teach our kids that life is ALL ABOUT COMPETING? You'll compete for good grades, you're first girlfriend, your job, and yes sports. With all this talk of removing hitting from hockey it furthers the decline of what made this country great and that's competition. I'm sorry if you're kid is small for his age - teach him to compete and develop skills that will allow him to thrive on the ice rather than diminish the game by changing the rules.

Hockey is a physical game, I have a son who is 13 - he is 5' 11" - 145lbs. - he plays PWA and is always one of the biggest kids on the ice and he looks forward to hitting - he has also had two concussions in the last 2 years from big hits from other kids, spends extra time in the penalty box because when you hit a smaller kid the refs call a penalty regardless if it's a clean hit, and he wouldn't change a thing.

Checking is a part of hockey. In my opinion they should start it earlier so kids can learn how to deliver and take a check and develop for what's coming up.

It's sad to say, but with the pussification of America, I see a not too distance future where there is no checking, football is played with flags even in the NFL, and everyone is guaranteed a paycheck - sound familiar? It's called socialism.

Wake up America!!!

[MN_Hcky_Coach]

Can your son skate, handle the puck or does he just hit like most big peewees?

Because if he can't, every level higher will be more difficult.

USAH will allow contact in squirts but disallow "checking" at bantams. This basically means less open ice/blindside hits and kids running kids in the corners in peewees. There is no way they will take contact out of the peewee level, instead allow it earlier.

This will be an attempt to grow the game and if that is hard to imagine, think about when they made helmets mandatory. Yes, years ago, youth players didn't wear helmets, then facemasks came along, then automatic icing, then major penalties, then checking from behind, then fair play points. The game is evolving for speed, skill, and yes (proper) physical play.

Years ago we taught hooking the upper arm and putting the stick between the legs. No longer are these types of plays allowed, instead kids need to skate and gain ice position or its a penalty. You even used to be able to cross check a guy to clear him out of the front of the net because it was his fault he was standing there. These changes are coming from the top levels and are slowly trickling down to the youth.

It is not socialism, its evolution. I don't know if this will work to develop players the way USAH thinks it will but we'll see, the rest has made the game faster, safer and better for the players so I'll give it a try.