Proper fit for ALL winter kids

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles »

greybeard58 wrote:The idea is good but since you have used District 10 as an example a bit of history maybe should be stated. First the current and past District Director and the current and past District President have during their tenure encouraged associations to place their teams at the proper competitive level and if it took a cooperative to place teams at the highest level so be it not only at the monthly meetings but also during the summer meetings . All was required was a written agreement by the associations in the cooperative detailing who would host what level, ice time ,payments and length of agreement.

In the past at the youth level as far back as the 2005-06 season the coop’s have been St Francis/Cambridge/Isanti, St Francis/North Branch. Becker Big Lake and Princeton and the last 2 years Cambridge/Isanti and North Branch none are still in effect. The only successful coop’s have been on the girls side.

I would suggest that first your groupings be changed to include all of the smaller associations in District 10 and would also be at the Peewee and Bantam levels only. I would group North Branch, Chisago Lakes and Pine City in one group have Cambridge/Isanti, Princeton and Mora in the next group and then place Spring Lake Park, Irondale and St Francis in another. This would be to place teams at the A and B1 level for Peewee and Bantams. All the associations would have to be in agreement on a large number of items and the duration should be mandated for a 4 year period. With a 4 year mandated agreement this would give the next group a chance knowing it will still be in effect and can not be rescinded.

It is too late for this season but with hard work and cooperation could be in place for next season. Remember the District Director will also have to be aware of all things also as his approval is needed.

The biggest problem will be the egos of the parents and board members, if they can be kept in check the idea might work, however no one association should be guaranteed any spots on the top team. High school coaches might also spread negatives as you might be developing players his team will be going against, team colors have in the past also raised problems, coaches supposedly favoring one association over the other. The District does not need to be involved in the daily operation, that is the responsibility of the coop.

I hope that something would succeed and give more players a chance to compete, but this effort will need to include all levels on play at the bantam and peewee age groups.

Remember that the associations are the affiliates and they need to not only be involved but will have to approve. I would also get the larger associations on board with the idea that this will make their teams better. You want them on your side on this issue not against the idea.
- I think it would work better to rotate the schedule than to have a single host.

- Most co-ops the parents have been the problem. They expect 50/50 etc. Too many inside politics. 100% outside evaluations.

- My team alignment was JUST an example. This should be just for A ONLY. It's never a good situation when a A level kid is playing on a B team. I see no need for combining at the B level. The competition level is also needed at Squirts.

- Next year

- No inside politics. The players that make the team earn it..... STRANGE CONCEPT IN HOCKEY :shock:. High school coaches should be very happy that this might keep some of their top end talent around. No need to look for greener pastures in PeeWees or Bantams to get noticed. Most of the B-1 schools in D-10 play in different hs conferences. As for the colors...?? I guess mix them up, or go with a different color.

- All levels would not be a good thing.

- I would hope the mega associations would like the added competition.
muckandgrind
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Post by muckandgrind »

greybeard58 wrote: Remember the District Director will also have to be aware of all things also as his approval is needed.

.
It was his idea.
Night Train
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Post by Night Train »

By co-oping only at A all the B1 teams are immediately more competitive. Some will only lose 1 or 2 players to the co-oped A team leaving the next 13 to play B1 where they likely belong. Even if a single association loses 6-8 players to the co-op that B1 team is still stronger than if they lost 17 to A. Bantam co-oping is needed more than PeeWee as some associations lose bantam aged kids to high school teams.

River Heights Rebels (South St. Paul and Inver Grove Heights) and Minneapolis-Park Storm (Minneapolis and St. Louis Park) seem to be the best recent examples. They went with different names and uniforms so as not to get into the discussion regarding who the players belong to. River Heights was only Bantam A and Minneapolis-Park is now only Bantam A. It's about youth hockey which really doesn't have anything to do with high school hockey in the metro where kids can go to any of a number of different high schools. Clear distinction between youth and high school are needed throughout the metro and in these situations. Youth Hockey Associations role is to develop hockey players without consideration as to where they might end up playing high school.
MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles »

muckandgrind wrote:
greybeard58 wrote: Remember the District Director will also have to be aware of all things also as his approval is needed.

.
It was his idea.
The District 10 director is for something like this? He mentioned something like this in a meeting or behind closed doors? What info can you give us? I hope he runs with it if it is true!!!!???? :D
MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles »

MrBoDangles wrote:
muckandgrind wrote:
greybeard58 wrote: Remember the District Director will also have to be aware of all things also as his approval is needed.

.
It was his idea.
The District 10 director is for something like this? He mentioned something like this in a meeting or behind closed doors? What info can you give us? I hope he runs with it if it is true!!!!???? :D
:?:
old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 »

Is greybeard d-10 director?
Toomuchtoosoon
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Post by Toomuchtoosoon »

There are more A level kids playing B in Edina and Wayzata than all of D10. Quit whining.
MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles »

Toomuchtoosoon wrote:There are more A level kids playing B in Edina and Wayzata than all of D10. Quit whining.
We covered that earlier..... Quit posting :lol:
muckandgrind
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Post by muckandgrind »

MrBoDangles wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
muckandgrind wrote: It was his idea.
The District 10 director is for something like this? He mentioned something like this in a meeting or behind closed doors? What info can you give us? I hope he runs with it if it is true!!!!???? :D
:?:
At the D10 Board Meeting on Monday night, a committee was formed to study the idea and report it's findings back for January meeting. Sounds like it's very likely that it will happen for next year.
muckandgrind
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Post by muckandgrind »

Toomuchtoosoon wrote:There are more A level kids playing B in Edina and Wayzata than all of D10. Quit whining.
The difference is that the kids in Edina and Wayzata have the opportunity to try out for an A team and the kids in Cambridge, North Branch and Coon Rapids do not.
MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles »

muckandgrind wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote: The District 10 director is for something like this? He mentioned something like this in a meeting or behind closed doors? What info can you give us? I hope he runs with it if it is true!!!!???? :D
:?:
At the D10 Board Meeting on Monday night, a committee was formed to study the idea and report it's findings back for January meeting. Sounds like it's very likely that it will happen for next year.
Thanks, I should add that I sure hope It's at all levels. Like competition is needed at Squirts and above. If not, the skill level will drop and will be all the harder for them to jump into a A Bantam type setting. This will have to be the set up or we will have a choice type league in the north metro very soon.

And I'll say again....... They must have 100% outside evaluators. No influence... No 20-40% coach pick stuff....
Toomuchtoosoon
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Post by Toomuchtoosoon »

The difference is that the kids in Edina and Wayzata have the opportunity to try out for an A team and the kids in Cambridge, North Branch and Coon Rapids do not.
True, but the subject of the thread was to find a way for all A level kids to play A. Subject is beaten to death. Go to an AA and A system which couldet more kids play at higher level.
old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 »

Growing up in Forest Lake[ back when we were in d-10] we only had B-teams at the pee-wee and squirt level. By the time we reached bantam we played two years of A. All the other teams we played in highschool matched bantam A rosters from tournys. My point is, it is better to get the most kids we can playing at the highest level. Not every one is edina.
MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles »

Toomuchtoosoon wrote:
The difference is that the kids in Edina and Wayzata have the opportunity to try out for an A team and the kids in Cambridge, North Branch and Coon Rapids do not.
True, but the subject of the thread was to find a way for all A level kids to play A. Subject is beaten to death. Go to an AA and A system which couldet more kids play at higher level.
And again.... Those kids get to try out for the A level in their association. Talk to your mega association about having two A teams. The subject of the thread is to find a way for A level kids, in no A level associations, to have that OPPORTUNITY to try out for that level.
New idea is beaten to death in 3 pages? It is pretty pathetic that you would want to hold other kids back just because your association wants one dominant A team. Maybe you can waive your kid to a small association in the near future. Are you scared of a more even playing field for the kids?
MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles »

old goalie85 wrote:Growing up in Forest Lake[ back when we were in d-10] we only had B-teams at the pee-wee and squirt level. By the time we reached bantam we played two years of A. All the other teams we played in highschool matched bantam A rosters from tournys. My point is, it is better to get the most kids we can playing at the highest level. Not every one is edina.
=D>
Toomuchtoosoon
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Post by Toomuchtoosoon »

Sorry, kid made A team. Could have been others on any given week.
O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown »

muckandgrind wrote:
Toomuchtoosoon wrote:There are more A level kids playing B in Edina and Wayzata than all of D10. Quit whining.
The difference is that the kids in Edina and Wayzata have the opportunity to try out for an A team and the kids in Cambridge, North Branch and Coon Rapids do not.
True, but remember just a month ago the mantra was that Tier I hockey was the answer. Worth mentioning that club teams could hold tryouts and not add any of these small association stars. That's why there is very little resistance to the co-op scenario described here.

The reason kids who 'should' play A hockey and don't is really a result of:
  • * some associations inability to build a strong program
    * a breakdown in the formal waiver process
    * an inability to broker mutually beneficial cooperative relationships
I know, it's easier to blame stodgy old Minnesota Hockey for refusing to embrace Tier I.

(P.S. A "Bantam Major" (1996) team dissolved last week. Gotta love Tier I.)
Be kind. Rewind.
MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles »

O-townClown wrote:
muckandgrind wrote:
Toomuchtoosoon wrote:There are more A level kids playing B in Edina and Wayzata than all of D10. Quit whining.
The difference is that the kids in Edina and Wayzata have the opportunity to try out for an A team and the kids in Cambridge, North Branch and Coon Rapids do not.
True, but remember just a month ago the mantra was that Tier I hockey was the answer. Worth mentioning that club teams could hold tryouts and not add any of these small association stars. That's why there is very little resistance to the co-op scenario described here.

The reason kids who 'should' play A hockey and don't is really a result of:
  • * some associations inability to build a strong program
    * a breakdown in the formal waiver process
    * an inability to broker mutually beneficial cooperative relationships
I know, it's easier to blame stodgy old Minnesota Hockey for refusing to embrace Tier I.

(P.S. A "Bantam Major" (1996) team dissolved last week. Gotta love Tier I.)
Tier 1 has been the answer for some(how many more would there be with options?).... 97 Fire. Without some kind of option (for more kids) you will see more private sector Hockey. Hope it goes through for district 10. :wink:
MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles »

Toomuchtoosoon wrote:Sorry, kid made A team. Could have been others on any given week.
If so many could have made it........ Make an-OTHER A team. Mix them up and you will probably have a couple winning teams.
muckandgrind
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Post by muckandgrind »

O-townClown wrote:
The reason kids who 'should' play A hockey and don't is really a result of:
  • * some associations inability to build a strong program
    * a breakdown in the formal waiver process
    * an inability to broker mutually beneficial cooperative relationships
Which is why district-sponsored A teams make the most sense. It takes the negotiating between associations out of the picture (which ussualy ends of killing the co-ops). The district sets the framework and creates the guidelines and rules that all association abide by and everyone gets a fair shot.
MrBoDangles
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Re: Proper fit for ALL winter kids

Post by MrBoDangles »

MrBoDangles wrote:District pooled team, A option, for kids in associations that B is the highest level offered.
- Could offer 1 or 2 teams depending on demand and skill.
- Would eliminate 10 percent of the kids scoring 90 percent of the goals.
- Would give other A teams another decent team to play
- The players would still pay and be a part of their home association.
- Kids would be able to play at a proper level and most would have 2-3 teammates from their home association.
- Kids would not have to waive into a hostile situation to play at a proper level.
- The demand for Tier 1/ Tier 2 would lessen.

Just a hypothetical example............ District 10 East pooled team

East A Squirts roster

Pine City
PC
PC
North Branch
NB
NB
NB
Cambridge- Isanti
C-I
C-I
C-I
Chisago Lakes
CL
CL
CL Picked by 100% out of district evaluators

The MN model has a proper level of play for all kids...... rec leagues, large associations that offer A teams, and B and C level teams in small associations. The only ones that are not getting a fair shake are the skilled kids in small associations.

My kids are not superstars, I have just seen many kids leave these types of associations because of a lack of a fit.

Just an idea and food for the bOred.
HD41, Should get more kids playing at the proper level and a much higher level of competition for all A teams.
HockeyDad41
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Post by HockeyDad41 »

Looks like a good idea. Any idea when or if this will be implemented?
Solving all of hockey's problems since Feb 2009.
MrBoDangles
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Post by MrBoDangles »

District 10 had their first meeting on the subject last night. Minnesota Hockey also has a huge interest in what they come up with. They know now that it's crunch time...... Because the private sector is lurking
HockeyDad41
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Post by HockeyDad41 »

MrBoDangles wrote:District 10 had their first meeting on the subject last night. Minnesota Hockey also has a huge interest in what they come up with. They know now that it's crunch time...... Because the private sector is lurking
Any idea of how the discussion went?
Solving all of hockey's problems since Feb 2009.
MrBoDangles
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm

Post by MrBoDangles »

HockeyDad41 wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:District 10 had their first meeting on the subject last night. Minnesota Hockey also has a huge interest in what they come up with. They know now that it's crunch time...... Because the private sector is lurking
Any idea of how the discussion went?
Sounded mixed..
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