Mayo Hockey Concussion conference

[warmskin]

Is anybody planning on attending the hockey concussion conference at the Mayo Clinic next month?

[High Off The Glass]

Is anybody planning on attending the hockey concussion conference at the Mayo Clinic next month?

No. couldn't find a hotel room available

[ALSANITI]

Are there any associations out there taking steps to address concusions? I know ours is paying for every kid in the association to have a baseline concussion test completed to use if/when someone gets a consussion.

Anyone have any thoughts on the new helmets (M11, S19, etc.) as far as concussion help? I know you can't stop them, but it sure seems like they are making a great effort to cut back the number. I know I checked out the new S19 and was amazed at the strength of it and the lightness of it. Don't know if that equates to less concusions, but it can't hurt.

[BadgerBob82]

Though it will never happen and I understand that so don't go nuts here. I just think the use of full facemasks has allowed the kids to expose their head to concussions. Yes, the elbow and shoulder pads could be part of it. Seamless heavy glass can be another. Helmets have never been better. The improved mouthguards have to help.

I don't buy that kids are bigger than 20 years ago. I don't buy the kids play harder than 20 years ago. I don't buy they are more aggressive than 20 years ago. What I think is the improvements in equipment has almost made kids fearless which actually allows them to get into vulnerable situations on the rink. You can't always tuck your head and hope for the best.

[BadgerBob82]

alsaniti: Can you tell which association it is? Also, any idea the cost on these scans and the effectiveness in having a baseline for kids?

[Pudda_Puck_In_Her_Ear]

c.. c.. c.. concussions? Why would th.. th.. th.. that matter?

Sorry, I lose focus for summat reason or another once in a while.

>.<

[ALSANITI]

alsaniti: Can you tell which association it is? Also, any idea the cost on these scans and the effectiveness in having a baseline for kids?

Badger, It is actually in Sioux Falls SD. WE got a deal from the local hospital for 300 baseline scans for $400. It also includes 30 post injury exams (which is where the reall money starts piling up). I guess the effectiness will be measured by the ability to acurratly diagnos concussions. We all know of times when it is borderline if the do or don't have one. This exam is supposed to be able to tell by the difference between the baseline and post injury test. There are many football teams that are going to this around here as well. Just like anyone, I am a little skeptical about the new "latest and greatest" thing to come out, but I figured, when dealing with the head, any precaution is a good one.

[IcePick]

Anyone have any thoughts on the new helmets (M11, S19, etc.) as far as concussion help? I know you can't stop them, but it sure seems like they are making a great effort to cut back the number. I know I checked out the new S19 and was amazed at the strength of it and the lightness of it. Don't know if that equates to less concusions, but it can't hurt.

I think the Easton S-19 Z-shock and Cascade M11 are huge improvements and both protect the skater's head better than traditional helmets. I don't think you can go wrong with either one, but there are differences.

The Z-shock is the lightest helmet on the market. If you pick one up you'll be amazed how light it is. It gets its added protection from a solid polycarbon shell that is very rigid and, Easton claims, is 8x stronger than traditional helmets. If you push end-to-end you really can't flex the thing. Since the shell is one-piece and cannot be adjusted, the helmet is tightened to the head by a strap inside the back of the helmet (you have to take it off to adjust). On the inside, the helmet is primarily made of hard EPP foam, with some soft foam overlays for comfort. Personally, I think it is a great helmet but it is pricey. I think it sells for about $160. I wouldn't buy one on the internet until you try one on in the store. It has to fit laterally and I know two people who say it didn't fit them no matter how they tightened the strap.

The Cascade M11 takes a slightly different approach. It has a completely different foam technology (I forget what they call it) on the inside of the helmet. The foam has cylinders that spring back to the original shape upon impact. It is supposed to really help in multiple impact situations such as a stick to the head and then into the boards. It also has a rigid one piece shell like z-shock, but is heavier and a bit bulkier. Some guys don't like the look, but the youngsters don't seem to care. You adjust the inside fit with a mechanism located in the back of the helmet and do not have to take helmet off to adjust. I think it sells for about $130.

Oh yeah, be very carefull if you are switching or repairing cages on your kids helmet. Those screws aren't the same length for each manufacturer!! Last season, I saw a kid replace a helmet screw with one that was too long and it was putting pressure on the inside of the foam on the front of his helmet! Fortunately, we stopped it before he went on the ice.

Hope this helps.

[Marty McSorely]

I wish the someone would come out with honest opinions on what helmets help prevent consussions.

When you compare hockey helmets to automobile crash reasoning on only the M11 make physical science sense. The helmet absorbs the impact therefore its not transferred to the head. The Easton....being rock hard just transfers energy through to the head.

Can someone post info on the Mayo prestation, this is the first I've heard of it.

[BadgerBob82]

I agree with Marty the Easton being so rigid would seem to place more energy on the skull. A Dr. friend of mine put it very simply. A concussion is the rapid change of directions on the brain resulting in it banging on the skull. Thus it is a bruise of the brain. The helmet is of less concern than eliminating the head getting hit in the first place. Thus kids need to understand you don't "lead with your head". Being a ping-pong ball off a shoulder into the glass is the hit comes to my mind. Sticks or pucks to the head aren't the main concern.

Case in point, did you hear of alot of concussions from players wearing the JOFA helmet Marty McSorely, Gretzky and others wore? Look at the improvements in helmets since those flimsy things yet the number of concussions is skyrocketing.

[Mite-dad]

I wish the someone would come out with honest opinions on what helmets help prevent consussions.

When you compare hockey helmets to automobile crash reasoning on only the M11 make physical science sense. The helmet absorbs the impact therefore its not transferred to the head. The Easton....being rock hard just transfers energy through to the head.

Can someone post info on the Mayo prestation, this is the first I've heard of it.

When I thought about the two helmets from a "common sense" perspective, I thought the same thing. I bought my two older kids M11's after my oldest had two minor concussions last year.

[Mite-dad]

I can't speak for all associations or coaches, but I don't think enough practice time is dedicated to teaching checking/taking a check. I see far too many kids checking to retaliate, leading with the forearms or elbows, checking from behind, etc. If time is spent practicing technique and strategy on a regular basis throughout the year we'd be much better off. But the way it is seems similar to giving kids guns before gun safety class and telling them not to point it at anybody. Or handing the keys to your 12 year old and telling them to "just keep it between the lines".

[Marty McSorely]

My other thought is we are all responsible for this. When I has a kid and you hit someone high, the ref would call a penalty, the coach would talk with you and my parents would also have a discussion with me.

Today's version is much different. I agree with Badger.... we've padded these kids up too much. When a kid hits someone high half of the stands gasp....the others cheer loudly.......if the ref makes a call he get's a ass chewing about letting the kids play hockey from a coach......the coach then proceeds to tell the player the ref is an idiot and daddy follows it up on the ride home.

I don't know when the tide will turn but it needs to quickly. The game used to be about speed and skill and the big legal hits still happened. Now we have smash mouth hockey with less skill and a bunch of kids hurt.

I truelly appriciate good reffing, coaching and parenting.

[Pudda_Puck_In_Her_Ear]

I can't speak for all associations or coaches, but I don't think enough practice time is dedicated to teaching checking/taking a check. I see far too many kids checking to retaliate, leading with the forearms or elbows, checking from behind, etc. If time is spent practicing technique and strategy on a regular basis throughout the year we'd be much better off. But the way it is seems similar to giving kids guns before gun safety class and telling them not to point it at anybody. Or handing the keys to your 12 year old and telling them to "just keep it between the lines".

damn straight

that first summer at checking is horrible. Checking is not a painful experience (most the time!) if one knows how to take the hit. I saw more than one kid catch an elbow to the head while two feet from the boards. I think proper coaching would definately help in this issue.

Regarding helmets: I recently spent about $200 on Easton Zshock helmet / cage. Frankly, from my personal "on-line" research, I found it to be a better helmet. But, most importantly ... it fit my sons head better. Both helmets do fit differently, it is a must to trundle off to the store and test them both out.

I shutter to think of the trauma in my poor poor brain back when I skated, as my ex-wife will concur.

[Mac15]

I wish the someone would come out with honest opinions on what helmets help prevent consussions.

When you compare hockey helmets to automobile crash reasoning on only the M11 make physical science sense. The helmet absorbs the impact therefore its not transferred to the head. The Easton....being rock hard just transfers energy through to the head.

Can someone post info on the Mayo prestation, this is the first I've heard of it.

Here it is:

Ice Hockey Summit - Action on Concussion (October 19-20, 2010) (Mayo Clinic)


Special Guest: Kerry Fraser (NHL Referee)

Intended Audience:

Physicians from sports medicine, emergency medicine, neurology, neurosurgery, radiology, pediatrics, and family practice, sport scientists, physical therapists, athletic trainers, physician assistants, nurse practitioners, coaches, ice hockey organization representatives, arena managers, manufacturers and researchers.

Date and Location:

The Ice Hockey Summit: Action on Concussion will be held October 19-20, 2010. The course will be located in the Leighton Auditorium on the second floor of the Siebens Medical Education Building, Mayo Clinic, 100 Second Avenue Southwest, Rochester, Minnesota, 55905.

Course Description:

The prevalence and consequences of concussion at all levels of ice hockey are concerning. Reduction of concussion risk, improved concussion diagnosis and management require a collaborative effort from medicine, psychology, sport science, coaching, engineering, officiating, manufacturing, and community partners. This quality scientific program will focus on education and will generate an evidence-based action plan designed to make a difference. All speakers are also being asked to discuss how gender differences influence the topic of their talk. Read the brochure at: http://www.mayo.edu/pmts/mc1300-mc1399/mc1361-09.pdf

Registration:

To register online, visit www.mayo.edu/cme/oct2010.html. The registration fee includes tuition, continental breakfast, refreshment breaks, a box lunch, and a reception on Tuesday evening. A letter of confirmation will be sent upon receipt of payment and completion of the registration form. Early registration is suggested. Online registration closes October 15, 2010. On site registration will be available: http://www.mayo.edu/cme/index.cfm?objec ... 5579729E7B

Supporting Organizations:

This course is supported, in part, by the Hockey Equipment Certification Council (HECC), International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF), Ontario Neurotrauma Foundation (ONF), USA Hockey, Team Wendy, and the Johannson-Gund endowment, in accordance with ACCME Standards.


Physician Fee: $250 Non-Physician Fee: $175

[themedic]

So does anyone have any info on this conference specificly.

Is it worth goin to?

How often is it held? or is this a one time deal?

I see from the webpage its geared towards Emergency Doc's thru Hockey Association reps. ???

[BadgerBob82]

themedic: If it is presented by the Mayo Clinic Sports Medicine, it will be excellent.

[brickhouse19]

Along these lines, if anyone is aware of a resource where a person could get the opinions of physicians or other medical personnel regarding specific types of helmets I would be quite interested. I have heard the claims of the manufacturers that certain helmets, such as the M11, reduce concussions but would be interested in an independent view. I am too skeptical to just take the manufacturers at their word.

[RealisticRonnie]

MOUTHGUARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!! READ THE RESEARCH....WITHOUT A PROPERLY FIT MOUTHGUARD THE HELMET IS INSUFFICIENT!!! END OF DISCUSSION....

[trippedovertheblueline]

in between a my 3 mile swim, and 8 miles on the treader, i pumped some iron...low and behold this clinic was on SportsCenter I could have just said the event was on sportcenter today, but the wife was standing behind me.

[Milk Carton Matty #6]

No matter how nice the helemet is, if they don't have the proper mouth gaurd and wear it... they are in trouble. The common factor in contact sports and concussion is the mouth guard or lack there off and how often they are getting concussions.

Not to say you can't get one if you are wearing it.... but the chances are drastically reduced.

check this site out and the story on them and the New England Patriots.

http://www.mahercorlabs.com/mouthguard.htm

[DMom]

No matter how nice the helemet is, if they don't have the proper mouth gaurd and wear it... they are in trouble. The common factor in contact sports and concussion is the mouth guard or lack there off and how often they are getting concussions.

Not to say you can't get one if you are wearing it.... but the chances are drastically reduced.

check this site out and the story on them and the New England Patriots.

http://www.mahercorlabs.com/mouthguard.htm

Thanks for that link. It's interesting and worth the trip to Monticello if it works. My question would be, would they be approved by Minnesota hockey if you had a statement from your dentist?

[interestedbystander]

Conference

[themedic]

Im attending.

Anyone from Rochester have any input on where to stay?

[stopthepuck]

MOUTHGUARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!! READ THE RESEARCH....WITHOUT A PROPERLY FIT MOUTHGUARD THE HELMET IS INSUFFICIENT!!! END OF DISCUSSION....

Not entirely true............I won't dispute the importance of a properly fitting mouthguard, however, the research is anecdotal at best right now in it's role in concussion PREVENTION. Much more research needs to be done.

From: Br J Sports Med 2001;35:81-82 doi:10.1136/bjsm.35.2.81

"Conclusions

The ability of mouthguards to protect against head and spinal injuries in sport falls into the realm of “neuromythology” rather than hard science.32 Reading the original studies cited as evidence for this effect reveals anecdotal claims that can best be described as bizarre rather than reflecting established medical principles. It is unlikely that a mouthguard would offer effective protection against brain or spinal cord injury, and the limited published data are not compelling in this regard nor does it accord with the known pathophysiology of such injuries.

At this stage, there is no convincing evidence to support a protective effect against any type of sporting injury. This is largely because studies with sufficient power have not yet been performed. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. It is critical that a randomised controlled trial of sufficient power is performed to answer this question so that sports clinicians can accurately advise athletes of safety issues and the best means of preventing injury. "

The entire article can be found at: http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/35/2/81.full