District 6 New Rule involving playing hockey only with Dist

[BadgerBob82]

Every player, coach, referee, association, etc pay USA and MN Hockey fees. In addition to a monthly magazine, insurance policies are provided to cover this type of frivolous lawsuit. I'd say our $40 per year hard at work!

The way I look at it, Bernie McBain brought this frivolous lawsuit and he is looking for a get rich quick scheme. I bet his lawyers will get free hockey at the made for life!

[scrapiron]

How could he get rich? He can not collect any damages. in this type of case he cannot even ask for attorneys fees if he won.

[Ugottobekiddingme]

kiddingme:

1: I think alot of people have more money than brains. They are afraid their kid will "fall behind". You're tipping your hand on the old politics and "social network mainframe" restrict kids' advancement. So, take your $4,000 ball and go home?

2. Again with the politics and not being evaluted "correctly". Yes, little Jonny made the "B" team because the 15 kids that made the "A" team were worse than Jonny. Politics, none of that going on in places where check cashing is the key to team placement.

3. I don't think MM hockey players are a protected class under discrimination laws? Now if D6 made a rule that no black, jewish kids with gay parents could join, I would agree with you. Also, the D6 rule doesn't say you can play if you play with MM. Just during the hockey season, can only play on one team in one league.

4. D6 has open arms to all players within their geographic area that want to play hockey. Where's the problem caused by this rule?

Your list of 4 rhetorical questions were fun.

Now for a real rhetorical question: If D6 was welcoming in black jewish kids from gay parents into their association, wouldn't that be stealing from the AAA Miracle team and would they have to sit out a year before being considered for the A squad? I'm assuming you didn't consider adoption in this example.

[trippedovertheblueline]

kiddingme:

1: I think alot of people have more money than brains. They are afraid their kid will "fall behind". You're tipping your hand on the old politics and "social network mainframe" restrict kids' advancement. So, take your $4,000 ball and go home?

2. Again with the politics and not being evaluted "correctly". Yes, little Jonny made the "B" team because the 15 kids that made the "A" team were worse than Jonny. Politics, none of that going on in places where check cashing is the key to team placement.

3. I don't think MM hockey players are a protected class under discrimination laws? Now if D6 made a rule that no black, jewish kids with gay parents could join, I would agree with you. Also, the D6 rule doesn't say you can play if you play with MM. Just during the hockey season, can only play on one team in one league.

4. D6 has open arms to all players within their geographic area that want to play hockey. Where's the problem caused by this rule?

Your list of 4 rhetorical questions were fun.

Now for a real rhetorical question: If D6 was welcoming in black jewish kids from gay parents into their association, wouldn't that be stealing from the AAA Miracle team and would they have to sit out a year before being considered for the A squad? I'm assuming you didn't consider adoption in this example.

i completely understand this, where is the nachos?

[hockeyrocks87]

Badger you walked into that one

[Ugottobekiddingme]

Ugottobekidding,


1. Why is the question not be addressed as to why many are leaving association hockey in poor economic times and forking over 4 times the registration costs? Have people realized that the social network mainframe within association hockey doesn't offer the ability for improvement and advancement? Or are people just throwing their hard earned money away??
a. It could be that they have bought the BS that USA/MH/Assoc Hockey has not moved forward in 40 years and thus is old fashioned and out of date.
b. It could be that they have been sold that if they follow this path from an early age the son/daughter will be a D1/NHL player (when you get paid back)
c. It could be they feel the pressure to make sure their child keeps up with other high squirt achievers.
d. It could be a status symbol.
e. It could be by cutting out the middle and low ability kids a coach can structure a practice plan on skills that are above the typically accepted plan for the age group.
f. It could be that the practice plans MM has developed are actually able to take a player of lower ability and transform them into one of the best in the state leading to a future of high achievement on and off the ice.
g. Or it could be some or all of the above.

2. Choose is a lame point offered by previous posters. If hockey participants had the option, they would choose to be evaluated "correctly" and play within a community organized event that offers the ability to advance their skills towards a game not obstructed by association managed politics and not regulated by useless and senseless rules by MN hockey.
a. There is no question here, I disagree with your point, if you think anarchy is a good thing I think you’re a bit off. You can’t have a system that serves the needs of many people of different skill levels and backgrounds without some order and rules. You don’t get that without some politics. This has been true for 3000 years.


3. The ugly truth of the D6 by-laws bring into account the status of 501(C) status. How can a non-profit community group regulate who can participate within a community offered program and what limitations are being imposed on participants? This could get more interesting IMO.
a. I think you might be kidding with this one, there are many participation rules that have been in place at the national, region, district, and assoc level. You cant take your player from one association to another without following the rules that govern participation. Granted this rule is a little different but to suggest they have no right to make participation rules because they are non profit is silly.
4. The last time I looked a youth program was designed to give all kids an opportunity to participate and enjoy the game of hockey. Would anyone like to explain why we need to make it difficult to play a kids sporting event?
a. If you sign up for your squirt goalie for an assoc team and MM, then about Christmas time the player tells Mom and Dad that I have more fun with my teammates at MM. Which is understandable as the association team is struggling in a highly competitive district and it is a small assc. Mom and Dad decide to focus on the MM team and stop showing up at most of the association games and practices. Now you have the assoc team left without a goalie most skates. Had they made the choice of MM in the first place the assoc team could have found a goalie to move up or in to play for that team. That is what I understand to be the reason for the need to make a choice and play in one hockey league per season. An attendance rule would have to lump the other hockey in with music, scouts, religion...I would hate to see that happen.

Royals Dad:

Great freshman attempt on the first question but would you like me to address the anarchy question over the last 3000 years? Herb Brooks always said Jesus couldn't get the puck in the net because his skates didn't have an edge.

Let me know if you need clarification.....

[hockey_is_a_choice]

Interesting comments. My observations are as follows:

1. Regarding the anarchy comment, the country we live in today would not exist but for the anarchists who started the Revolutionary War. Thank you, George Washington, for being an anarchist.

2. Regarding the "parents have more money than brains" comment. That comment is offensive on so many levels, but it boils down to "you're stupid because you don't agree with me." Now, that's close-minded. Are you paying for your son's association hockey every year but not fully funding his 529 college account? Before you criticize others' intelligence, make sure you have your own financial and intellectual house in order.



3. Nonprofit corporations such as MinnHock, District 6 and associations are governed by specific Minnesota statutes and IRS regulations. Members of those entities--you and me--have protections and access rights to information, and board members have specific obligations to members that are governed by those statutes and regulations.

4. Finally, it's funny that most posters on this Board who think MM doesn't have a case have not reviewed the Complaint (a multi-page document), are not licensed to practice law, are not seasoned complex commercial litigation trial lawyers, and and are unaware of the meeting minutes, e-mails, handwritten notes and telephone conversations where board members discussed targeting MM and putting it out of business.

In my humble opinion, this lawsuit is a horse race. But, I do know this: Minnesota Hockey will change as a result of this lawsuit. As I said before, be careful what you ask for--you might get more than you bargained for . . . Someone earlier suggested mediation. That's a good idea. If the case had stayed in State court, the parties would have been forced to mediate or participate in some other form of alternative dispute resolution. My guess is Judge Tuneheim, who is an excellent Federal judge, will strongly encourage the parties to resolve this dispute through mediation. It's amazing how a guy who wears a black robe can convince otherwise stubborn parties to think creatively and reasonably.


Greybeard, will MinnHock even discuss this issue at the Fall meeting? Most Boards will not discuss pending litigation in an open forum so I would be surprised if there is any public discussion during the Fall meeting.

My advice to everyone who feels strongly about this issue is to send the MinnHock Board members a letter. Speak up and be heard. Minnesota Hockey belongs to all of us--even the anarchists.

[greybeard58]

HIAC,
I believe that the lawsuit will be discussed at some point this weekend,but I also believe that the discussion will be an executive session and not open to the public.
On another topic I did try to encourage people to go to the meetings this weekend, one was interested and another was sarcastic.

To get change or get the whole picture one should attend the meetings get to know the people involved. Personal interaction works a lot better than a letter. To take a short time to write a letter works but to take the time to attend meetings at the local,district or state and finding just where a person can make a commitment and help change works better.

My father used to say and I quote: “if your children are involved in an activity whether sports, church, school or community that you also need to be involved, but that involvement should be for the betterment of all not just your own children”. He used to emphasize the word all

[Ugottobekiddingme]

It's going to take much more than a letter and a few showing up to the MNHock meetings. For change to have any opportunity it will take a bus load of people with a common theme that benefits all. I'm not an anarchist but believe limited governance is a good thing. The problem is MNHock already has limited ability over associations.

[Quasar]

I just noticed this rule book change on the Minnesota hockey web site..

[R1] D. Players registered and rostered on a MH team may not participate as members of non-MH/USA Hockey teams during the season. Exception: programs that focus exclusively on training and skill development instead of games.

I think this makes the Dist. 6 rule a mute point..

By the way ..for what it's worth ..I don't think it was an agenda item for public discussion, at least I didn't see it any where.

[greybeard58]

Quasar,
What you found was the report from the rules committee and the rules committee should be meeting in the afternoon and depending what action is taken could be placed on the floor for a vote on Sunday. If it passes then it will be in place for the 2011-12 season. I do not believe it would be state wide for this season, but that could also happen.

[Quasar]

Quasar,
What you found was the report from the rules committee and the rules committee should be meeting in the afternoon and depending what action is taken could be placed on the floor for a vote on Sunday. If it passes then it will be in place for the 2011-12 season. I do not believe it would be state wide for this season, but that could also happen.

That's pretty much what I figured.. What do you think? Is this Minnesota hockey's version of the District 6 rule. Are the two connected in any way?
Will whatever happens in the district 6 lawsuit affect this rule?

I don't know...Could be a big mess for everyone involved..

[greybeard58]

I believe the rule is patterned after the Mn High school league which has had this rule in place for over 20 years and for all of their sports and activities.

I think there might be some wording change to allow a Girls or youth player trying out for their High school team a grace period covering the try out period but once that is over a decision would be needed to choose one team.

The Dec. 31 date for high school participation in the youth rules would not have to be changed as they could allow a player to change their mind before that date, maybe. The rule proposal is under New Business for the Sunday meeting.

[Quasar]

I believe the rule is patterned after the Mn High school league which has had this rule in place for over 20 years and for all of their sports and activities.

I think there might be some wording change to allow a Girls or youth player trying out for their High school team a grace period covering the try out period but once that is over a decision would be needed to choose one team.

The Dec. 31 date for high school participation in the youth rules would not have to be changed as they could allow a player to change their mind before that date, maybe. The rule proposal is under New Business for the Sunday meeting.

Yes I know, It is patterned after the high school league By Law 208...

What I was asking .. is...what is your opinion about the rule as it pertains to Minnesota youth hockey??

Do you think it's a good idea or not?

Do you think it has the same intent as the District 6 rule ?

[greybeard58]

The rule I feel is a logical progression of the existing registration rule which refers to rosters.

The intent I feel is to have the associations to remove players from the rosters that make the High school team and this could also lead to cooperation with the High school at the 16U/JV level which would be a good idea.

Is the intent the same as District 6 I do not think so but would have had to be at the meeting to hear the discussion.

[Quasar]

The rule I feel is a logical progression of the existing registration rule which refers to rosters.

The intent I feel is to have the associations to remove players from the rosters that make the High school team and this could also lead to cooperation with the High school at the 16U/JV level which would be a good idea.

Is the intent the same as District 6 I do not think so but would have had to be at the meeting to hear the discussion.

I could be wrong, but I think I'll go way out on a limb here, and suggest "it Ain't got squat to do with high school"!!

[greybeard58]

If you want to know what the Mn Hockey board intent is with the rule, you would have to be there and hear the discussion or be there on sunday, you asked for my opinion and I gave it. I have not been involved with any discussion of this rule proposal.

[Quasar]

If you want to know what the Mn Hockey board intent is with the rule, you would have to be there and hear the discussion or be there on sunday, you asked for my opinion and I gave it. I have not been involved with any discussion of this rule proposal.

I really don't have to go to the meeting to understand the intent of this proposed rule. I didn't mean to give the impression that I though you were involved with the rule. I was just engaging in a little pleasant chit chat. I'm afraid I think that attending the meetings is a waste of time for anyone not connected to Minnesota Hockey in some way. I understand your point of view, and respect your right to it. However, If you look at all the information available, it becomes clear that the meetings are not conducive to outside suggestion. When they form a committee called "Suggestions from members" and advertise a public forum at least 3 weeks in advance on their websites main page, not hidden in the general section, your wish that more people would attend the meeting will be fulfilled.

If Minnesota Hockey really wanted input from their members they could make it easy to do. They make it difficult for a reason.

[greybeard58]

The next meeting is Jan. 28-30 at the South Marriott Minneapolis West. If you or others here are serious on being heard by the board. There have been many presentations made before the board by the general membership. Below is the procedure for submitting proposals or items to be on the agenda for the next meeting. Starts on page 22 of the Mn Handbook.

Agenda Items (Excluding changes to the Governing Documents - See Article 11):
1. Anyone wishing to place an item on the agenda of the Board of Directors meeting must notify the Secretary/Treasurer in writing, not later than thirty (30) days prior to the meeting. The specific wording of the proposal must be provided, in writing, to the Secretary/Treasurer not later than 21 days prior to the meeting. Items submitted without the specific, written proposal will not be accepted. The Secretary/Treasurer will publish the complete agenda with copies of the proposals at least 10 days prior to the meeting. Agenda items without properly submitted supporting documentation will be dropped.
These proposals may be adopted by a majority vote of the Board of Directors.

2. Items that have received the approval of a MH Committee may be placed on the agenda at the beginning of the meeting or can be included in the committee report. The specific wording of the proposal must be provided to the members of the Board of Directors at the beginning of the meeting. These proposals may be adopted by majority vote of the Board of Directors.

3. Any item determined by the President to be in the same form or substantially similar form to one which
was rejected or withdrawn at the previous meeting of the Board of Directors cannot be placed on the agenda of the upcoming meeting of the Board of Directors unless it has received a two-thirds majority vote of approval by the appropriate Council or committee and the Board of Directors, in that order,recommending that it be placed on the agenda.

4. Any additional items that are to receive consideration of the Board of Directors must receive unanimous approval of those present at the Board of Directors meeting in order to be placed on the agenda.

The most current version/revision of Roberts Rules of Order shall govern and control the conduct of all meetings of the Board of Directors, unless modified by these By-Laws.
Copies of the minutes of all meetings of this Association, its committees and
the Board of Directors shall be distributed by the Secretary/Treasurer using a method(s) as determined by the Board of Directors withintwenty (20) days of such meetings to the Directors of the Association.

[Ugottobekiddingme]

I'm still working through the 2000 page health care bill and understanding what ramification will be felt and MN hockey has these procedures just to hear membership comments on a sport? No wonder people are disengaged and MN hockey is creating more regulations from individuals not elected by MN membership but from within it's own positioned board members. Are the little ear piece translators available for the meeting or do I need to hire legal counsel when attending such an event?

[Quasar]

I'm still working through the 2000 page health care bill and understanding what ramification will be felt and MN hockey has these procedures just to hear membership comments on a sport? No wonder people are disengaged and MN hockey is creating more regulations from individuals not elected by MN membership but from within it's own positioned board members. Are the little ear piece translators available for the meeting or do I need to hire legal counsel when attending such an event?

Its easy..just go to your district director and ask him if you can borrow the secret decoder ring!!

[Ugottobekiddingme]

Q....tried that, he said I needed to submit a request for approval not less than 20 days and no more than 15 days to the Czar of committee substance towards carbon dioxide emission but his secretary said he was on a job in Hibbing until January. I'm going to start searching breakfast boxes next. Thanks for the help....

[Quasar]

U.... Just got it from an inside source in Duluth. It might be possible to get a message to Hibbing via dog sled in time for the January meeting. I also think there's a guy in District 6 that might be needing some money soon. Might be able to work a deal with him. If that fails, a friend of a buddy of mines girlfriends brother said look in coco puffs..

Hope this clears it up for you.

[Ugottobekiddingme]

U.... Just got it from an inside source in Duluth. It might be possible to get a message to Hibbing via dog sled in time for the January meeting. I also think there's a guy in District 6 that might be needing some money soon. Might be able to work a deal with him. If that fails, a friend of a buddy of mines girlfriends brother said look in coco puffs..

Hope this clears it up for you.

Q...thanks again, the doctor says that if I don't figure out what "interstate residency waiver based upon geographical proximity" is soon then there might be a central system breakdown. I don't want to miss the festivities that MN hock is preparing for all of us. Could be a tuff run for the sled dogs this year, I'll have to go nuts for coco puffs.

[Quasar]

U ....Made my Day !!!! Good night all ...