Purpose of JV

[sinbin]

The thread about U14 or HS got me thinking about JV hockey. What are the primary reasons for JV? Developing kids for varsity? Giving kids the opportunity to play hockey somewhere? When I grew up, absolutely no Seniors played on JV and precious few Juniors played JV. It was Freshmen and Sophomores and was almost strictly development to get these players ready for varsity. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's the way it was – for all sports.

Today, I see a lot of Seniors on JV teams. Why is that? Is it a numbers thing (could be in Girls' hockey, I suppose)? But wouldn't the varsity coach want talented Freshmen and Sophomores on JV so he/she can have this be a feeder into varsity? Depending on the numbers, varsity will get fed by both 14U (smaller numbers) and JV. At some point, kids will get cut and at some point I would presume that the better kids make the team and the lesser ones get cut. Maybe in the event of a tie, the younger player makes it since he/she presumably has more potential. There's a 16U league for those who still want to play, correct?

Just want to get a feel from the coaches, experts, and those with opinions what the primary purpose of Girls JV should be. I know it will vary by association size, but let me know what you think.

[Mac15]

The only 16U in Minnesota that I am aware of is the SSM Sabres and the summer AAA teams. There are a few 19UB and 19UA teams in the winter.

[bghockey]

In our case we have a couple of seniors that play JV. As long as they continue to work hard and are positive role models, I'm fine with that. Most Class A teams are short on numbers so they keep all the player's they can.

[Brainfreez]

The thread about U14 or HS got me thinking about JV hockey. What are the primary reasons for JV? Developing kids for varsity? Giving kids the opportunity to play hockey somewhere? When I grew up, absolutely no Seniors played on JV and precious few Juniors played JV. It was Freshmen and Sophomores and was almost strictly development to get these players ready for varsity. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's the way it was – for all sports.

Today, I see a lot of Seniors on JV teams. Why is that? Is it a numbers thing (could be in Girls' hockey, I suppose)? But wouldn't the varsity coach want talented Freshmen and Sophomores on JV so he/she can have this be a feeder into varsity? Depending on the numbers, varsity will get fed by both 14U (smaller numbers) and JV. At some point, kids will get cut and at some point I would presume that the better kids make the team and the lesser ones get cut. Maybe in the event of a tie, the younger player makes it since he/she presumably has more potential. There's a 16U league for those who still want to play, correct?

Just want to get a feel from the coaches, experts, and those with opinions what the primary purpose of Girls JV should be. I know it will vary by association size, but let me know what you think.

This a great question and you are going to get many different answers. I think you answered your own question - it's all based on numbers in the program. I can tell you we graduated all of our U12A players to high school to form a JV opting not to have a U14 team. It turned out great for us because we never had a JV before and the V had their best season in school history. Also, they are moving to the powerhouse AA conf. this year where we need to have a JV established. We actually had a couple girls knock off a couple upper classmen for spots. No longer can the girls sign up and expect to wear the varsity jersey without having to earn a spot.

In the case of senior girls playing JV - You will see more and more of this because there are too many good young phenoms coming up thru the ranks and the coaches get measured by wins not fairness. Obviously, the EPs and Edinas' of the world will disagree with my first point but numbers are not an issue for them. However, the majority will agree that JV is the feeder program to learn their systems, injury call ups, and push the upper classmen for spots.

[Pens4]

....the majority will agree that JV is the feeder program to learn their systems, injury call ups, and push the upper classmen for spots.

I agree that the JV environment is different for the larger versus the smaller programs. One would think that the depth would allow more girls to play a regular shift in the bigger programs, but those same coaches that play for wins will shorten the bench for all but the blow-out games. There are coaches that rotate the so-called "Swing Line" as a reward, the parents quickly find out that they are spending 6 hours at te rink and for the last 4 periods you have not seen your daughter hit the ice.

Playing High school hockey is a wonderful goal for the girls to strive for growing up. The pride of playing for their school and finding a niche in the high school is a huge attraction to move as fast as they can into the high school program. The question is....why are "A" caliber players and parents thinking it is an accomplishment to make the "B" team at the high school?

If a recruiter came to your daughter and said..."I would like your daughter to play for us next year. Yes the season starts a month later than the team your currently on. And I know we only play half as many games and don't have any actual tournament or playoff games...But even though we don't practice as many hours as you are use to...we do practice at 3:30pm everyday except Tuesday, Saturday and Sunday. It will be a great developement program for you to eventually make the varsity squad"

I think we need to raise our expectations for the girls high school league and start feeding it with players who are skilled enough to contribute a regular shift. A 13 year old player is just starting to gain their hockey skills and IQ. Give your daughter a chance to grow into an impact player...don't be in such a hurry to have her to become a "Make No Mistake" third line grinder. The JV will always be there for any girl that wants to continue playing hockey in high school.

[hockeywild7]

Many High school programs practice 1 1/2 hours everyday except Sunday and game days. What youth program has that much practice time? There are pros and cons to both sides depending on many factors. Parents like the cheaper costs, set practice time, less travel, no late night practices, and having their Sunday's free. Not sure about the "B" team analogy as you could also say in some cases the youth program might be the "C" team option.

[neutralregroup]

Another issue that I see is that there is a stigma attached to the 14U "assignment". Most parents (and players) would choose to play Bantam "A" over playing JV on the boys side.

I think that once the numbers are there on the girls side, it will be the same story. We aren't there yet statewide, but we are approaching it. We need to keep growing the youth programs to numbers similar to the boys programs. Then, this problem should take care of itself.

[capitalist]

Many High school programs practice 1 1/2 hours everyday except Sunday and game days. What youth program has that much practice time? There are pros and cons to both sides depending on many factors. Parents like the cheaper costs, set practice time, less travel, no late night practices, and having their Sunday's free. Not sure about the "B" team analogy as you could also say in some cases the youth program might be the "C" team option.

Good U14A programs practice just about every day, sometimes even on game days, including Sat. & Sun.; they probably play twice as many games as JV, and are skating a month longer--the JV and V players go around searching for ice time in March to no avail. And I don't know what 14A programs you've watched, but in many cases JV is dreadful, and more deserving of the 'C' moniker than U14A. If the JV program is strong, they won't take 7th or 8th graders and the 14A team is that much better. If your 7th or 8th grader is being asked to skate JV, then chances are both the HS and youth programs are shaky.

[luckyEPDad]

Good U14A programs practice just about every day, sometimes even on game days, including Sat. & Sun.; they probably play twice as many games as JV, and are skating a month longer--the JV and V players go around searching for ice time in March to no avail. And I don't know what 14A programs you've watched, but in many cases JV is dreadful, and more deserving of the 'C' moniker than U14A. If the JV program is strong, they won't take 7th or 8th graders and the 14A team is that much better. If your 7th or 8th grader is being asked to skate JV, then chances are both the HS and youth programs are shaky.

I'm pretty sure last year's Eden Prairie U12A team would have little trouble beating the JV. Again it comes down to numbers. If you want to play varsity high school hockey it is a good time to live in Eden Prairie. In a couple of years it is going to be significantly harder to make the team.

[hockeywild7]

I guess I will have to respectively disagree with you as I have seen many suburban east teams play and the top teams in that conference have very strong JV teams that would have an easy time beating the U12A team and the U14 teams. The top players in these programs play JV not U14 in most cases once they reach 9th grade. I am most familiar with Stillwater who had a U12A team that qualified for state and was pretty good but it would not be a close game with the JV team as the JV would win going away.

[sinbin]

Thanks for the differing perspectives. So for a program with an extremely strong varsity, very strong JV, and very strong 14U (play at state almost every season), I think that the issue may come down to playing time and relative teammate skill levels. That is, I assume that JV does not normally have equal playing time and that there are 1st/2nd/3rd lines. In our association, 14U has mandatory equal playing time. I think that the difference between the top 14UA and the bottom 14UA is much greater than the relative difference between the top and bottom JV players. The equal 14UA lines are disjointed due to differing player abilities and the play level is directed to the lowest common denominator, whereas the skill levels of JV would appear to be relatively equal across each respective line. That is, you have 5 first-liners together instead of two first-liners, 1 second liner, and 2 third-liners. All this has to be weighed against the longer 14UA season, more ice time, etc. Again, each association will differ, but I'm interested in any further comments or perspectives.

[royals dad]

Thanks for the differing perspectives. So for a program with an extremely strong varsity, very strong JV, and very strong 14U (play at state almost every season), I think that the issue may come down to playing time and relative teammate skill levels. That is, I assume that JV does not normally have equal playing time and that there are 1st/2nd/3rd lines. In our association, 14U has mandatory equal playing time. I think that the difference between the top 14UA and the bottom 14UA is much greater than the relative difference between the top and bottom JV players. The equal 14UA lines are disjointed due to differing player abilities and the play level is directed to the lowest common denominator, whereas the skill levels of JV would appear to be relatively equal across each respective line. That is, you have 5 first-liners together instead of two first-liners, 1 second liner, and 2 third-liners. All this has to be weighed against the longer 14UA season, more ice time, etc. Again, each association will differ, but I'm interested in any further comments or perspectives.

Don't forget that 1st line JV is often 3rd or 4th line Varsity. They often disappear from the JV game after 1 or 2 periods so they are available for 1 or 2 periods of varsity. This makes the 3rd period a really short bench for most games. Plus there are only a few JV programs I have seen that will really load up ice time on a top line. In fact Centennial is the only one that comes to mind. They have had an all senior JV line that sees a lot of ice the last 2 years that I saw them (I only saw 1 early game of theirs each year so I don't know if they always play that way).

Also remember that at a lot of the better programs you will have kids already working out together now, playing 3 vs 3, OS league, and then in captains practices. I don't really think there is that big of a drop in practice time, unless the player is in a fall sport or chooses to skip out on other opportunities. Non of this is required or run by the HS coaches but it is still available to girls who are trying out.

As a parent just make sure your asking lots of questions, you will probably find parents who have been through both paths in your program who would be happy to tell you what they think. I would stay away from asking coaches what they think the U14 and HS coaches will most likely have some altruistic answers.

[Pens4]

It seems logical that the big youth organizations would field top teams at the 14's JV and Varsity levels...BUT....when a solid core group of young players is thinned by some going to JV and some staying at varsity and maybe even some going to varsity. It makes sense that in the short term it will lower the overall level of all those teams..

An example of this thinning is the possibility that Blaine may not have the numbers to field a 14 team this year. A HighSchool with 2800 students, state runner-up in 14A's, a top 10 12A team and they are scrambling for the numbers.

It does makes you wonder if this attrition from youth programs to the HS JV & varsity will always stunt the depth of girls hockey. The girls hockey players I have (13 yr olds) are just now starting to understand the game and have an IQ for the way the game is played. The impact on the group of losing 5-7 of those higher end players would really impact the growth of the next 10 players.

I understand that this is what happens as they reach higher levels but this thinning is occurring at a youger level for the girls than boys. The Bantam champion is the zenith for boys youth hockey but for the girls it is 12's. I am not a big legislation guy but what if the MSHL didn't allow 8th or 9th graders play JV hockey. Now you have the depth at 14's for creating a meaning level for developement of the future JV & Varisty teams and not thinning every level.

The argument is that you wouldn't have the numbers for a JV program. If a program can't field two teams out of 3 years of classes than they shouldn't field a JV.