WBL investigation

[ilbok]

I can guarantee you, that if Sager gets fired, it won't be because of his coaching win/loss record.

Now there's a guarantee!

Are you a politician?

WBL anger has EVERYTHING to do with its record versus one team.

Sager gets the blame for getting past Hill only a couple times in a decade and never winning a first round game at State,

but who at White Bear Lake has done better?

This rumor-filled and libelous thread is as shameful as the WBL behavior.

[karl(east)]

This rumor-filled and libelous thread is as shameful as the WBL behavior.

I (or the admins) will be the ones deciding what is libelous and what is not on this thread.

If you think something posted here constitutes libel, send me a PM about it and I will review it.

Otherwise, please leave the enforcement of the rules of the forum to those whose job it is to do so.

[mulefarm]

Is there really an investigation or are a few people just trying to get something started?

[boardguy1998]

This rumor-filled and libelous thread is as shameful as the WBL behavior.

I (or the admins) will be the ones deciding what is libelous and what is not on this thread.

If you think something posted here constitutes libel, send me a PM about it and I will review it.

Otherwise, please leave the enforcement of the rules of the forum to those whose job it is to do so.

Wow, you will decide, that is kind of arrogant.

[WBLHockeyBishop]

Is there really an investigation or are a few people just trying to get something started?

Unfortunately yes there is and there should be some type of resolution today.

[Jimbo99]

Wow, you will decide, that is kind of arrogant.

It's not arrogant. It's just his job. Let him do it.

I don't see any problems with anything that's been posted here. It's interesting stuff too. I think this thread has been remarkably restrained. Hats off to the participants.

[karl(east)]

This rumor-filled and libelous thread is as shameful as the WBL behavior.

I (or the admins) will be the ones deciding what is libelous and what is not on this thread.

If you think something posted here constitutes libel, send me a PM about it and I will review it.

Otherwise, please leave the enforcement of the rules of the forum to those whose job it is to do so.

Wow, you will decide, that is kind of arrogant.

Forgive me if I'm sounding controlling, but this is the sort of thread that could get out of hand very easily. I'm trying to do what I can to prevent that. That's more or less what my job is on here, as a moderator.

[ilbok]

I would like to apologize here publicly to Karl and/or any admin who feels threatened by my stated opinion that nefarious and mysterious allegations of child abuse and/or misuse of funds might be defaming.

[MedleyWR]

I would like to apologize here publicly to Karl and/or any admin who feels threatened by my stated opinion that nefarious and mysterious allegations of child abuse and/or misuse of funds might be defaming.

I was going to remain silent, but this is beyond the pale! There have been no allegations of child abuse! Instead of just making things up to either support or attack the coach, let cooler heads prevail. If there is an investigation, we will know soon enough what the outcome is. This previous comment qualifies under Karl's post as justification for locking this thread.

[ilbok]

There are two investigations currently under way in WBL on the head coach and his abuse of players and misuse of funds. Any comments?

[Goldfishdude]

Since Karl and I have had many PMs thru the past year on many topics, he solicited my input in regards to the WBL situation. I gave him as many as 6 of the potential allegations that I have personally been aware of (for all I know, there are even others), and he is as informed on the situation probably more than the vast majority of WBL people themselves. He needed to be aware of these so that he could moderate this subject matter with the utmost scrutiny and determine what is fair or what can be construed of libel.

As I posted on here earlier, out of fairness to the program and to Sager, it would be completely irresponsible to document those items. The reason I suggest this, is because of the district/state data privacy, there is a potential that if multiple MSHSL violations and/or district violations are found, it is possible he may only be cited for the most severe, and the rest ignored. The point here is that there is a LOT of poop being thrown against the wall, and some of it may stick, it all may stick, or none of it will stick.

And as Body Shots said, and Karl will attest, what I informed Karl about, there was not one mention of his Won-Loss record, or the fact that he hasn't beaten H-M...

If Sager is exonerated, then nobody needs to know of any infractions. If his contract is not renewed, then there may be reasons leaked, but at least Karl has a foundation.

Please keep in mind that for as much as it is a privilege to be part of a school activity, whether it is a sport, band or glee club, being the coach or advisor to these programs is equally a privilege, and Minnesota enacts an Employment At Will state.... Sager's contract can be revoked or renewed at the discretion of the school district for ANY reason.

[mulefarm]

It is not privilege to coach, it is a job with a contract and obligations. Activities are one year contracts and do not have to be renewed. Like I said earlier, sounds like an old fashion witch hunt. Obviously some unhappy people got to the school administration. If he leaves, it will be interesting to see who would want the job? I don't believe qualified coaches will be lining up at the door.

[muckandgrind]

It is not privilege to coach, it is a job with a contract and obligations. Activities are one year contracts and do not have to be renewed. Like I said earlier, sounds like an old fashion witch hunt. Obviously some unhappy people got to the school administration. If he leaves, it will be interesting to see who would want the job? I don't believe qualified coaches will be lining up at the door.

There are only so many varsity jobs available each year....believe me, if the WBL job becomes available, they will get PLENTY of qualified candidates lining up at the door with resume in hand.

[ilbok]

You do not need truth on your side to start an investigation.

In fact, just starting a rumor about a possible investigation can be enough to ruin a reputation and career.

Both of these tactics are time honored in Washington, D. C.,

but have no place in the State of Hockey

(of course, I'm talking about Wisconsin).

Regardless of which faction prevails in White Bear,

the smart parents should be trading in their blaze orange for camo.

[Goldfishdude]

It is not privilege to coach, it is a job with a contract and obligations. Activities are one year contracts and do not have to be renewed. Like I said earlier, sounds like an old fashion witch hunt. Obviously some unhappy people got to the school administration. If he leaves, it will be interesting to see who would want the job? I don't believe qualified coaches will be lining up at the door.

With all due respect, muley, and not trying to cause a major controversy, but we are governed as a society by two rules of thought... Rights vs Privileges.... as defined

priv·i·lege (prv-lj, prvlj)
n.
1.
a. A special advantage, immunity, permission, right, or benefit granted to or enjoyed by an individual, class, or caste. See Synonyms at right.
b. Such an advantage, immunity, or right held as a prerogative of status or rank, and exercised to the exclusion or detriment of others.

I would classify coaching as a privilege.... just as being a moderator on this forum, the Tonight Show host, or owner of a mulefarm..

[mulefarm]

It is not privilege to coach, it is a job with a contract and obligations. Activities are one year contracts and do not have to be renewed. Like I said earlier, sounds like an old fashion witch hunt. Obviously some unhappy people got to the school administration. If he leaves, it will be interesting to see who would want the job? I don't believe qualified coaches will be lining up at the door.

With all due respect, muley, and not trying to cause a major controversy, but we are governed as a society by two rules of thought... Rights vs Privileges.... as defined

priv·i·lege (prv-lj, prvlj)
n.
1.
a. A special advantage, immunity, permission, right, or benefit granted to or enjoyed by an individual, class, or caste. See Synonyms at right.
b. Such an advantage, immunity, or right held as a prerogative of status or rank, and exercised to the exclusion or detriment of others.

I would classify coaching as a privilege.... just as being a moderator on this forum, the Tonight Show host, or owner of a mulefarm..

I guess most things in life are then a privilege, that for enlighting me.

[Goldfishdude]

It is not privilege to coach, it is a job with a contract and obligations. Activities are one year contracts and do not have to be renewed. Like I said earlier, sounds like an old fashion witch hunt. Obviously some unhappy people got to the school administration. If he leaves, it will be interesting to see who would want the job? I don't believe qualified coaches will be lining up at the door.

With all due respect, muley, and not trying to cause a major controversy, but we are governed as a society by two rules of thought... Rights vs Privileges.... as defined

priv·i·lege (prv-lj, prvlj)
n.
1.
a. A special advantage, immunity, permission, right, or benefit granted to or enjoyed by an individual, class, or caste. See Synonyms at right.
b. Such an advantage, immunity, or right held as a prerogative of status or rank, and exercised to the exclusion or detriment of others.

I would classify coaching as a privilege.... just as being a moderator on this forum, the Tonight Show host, or owner of a mulefarm..

I guess most things in life are then a privilege, that for enlighting me.

[ilbok]

Goldfishdude posts are about as entertaining as reading the dictionary.

[Goldfishdude]

Goldfishdude posts are about as entertaining as reading the dictionary.

boki.....this isn't a thread about me.... You don't like what I say, you can join the fun.... I created a thread just for people like you to have personal attacks on me..

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23177

[sachishi4]

I smell something fishy here...

[Sykes]

[quote="Pioneerprideguy"]
As for any off-ice situations, I think coaches can take too much blame at times. Depending on the situation, parents & kids need to be held more responsible than a coach. If coaches were held responsible for actions of their players away from the playing surface, many coaches would be fired annually.
quote]

I agree the coach should not be held responsible for actions of parents or kids off the ice. The coach can however set the tone of what is expected of a hockey player. When Coach Bolin, Woodbury, started with the program, he had some simple expectations:

1) No hair over the ears
2) Dress shirt and pants to be worn to school on the day of a game and to the game.
3) Double the high school league penalty for alcohol, drugs, or tobacco
4) If you are a senior and are suspended for any of the three, you are done for the year, unless the entire team votes to have you back. Then every player on the team has to sit out either one period or game, can't remember which.
5) 10:30 pm curfew before games. Makes random phone calls a couple time a year. Not home, don't play the game the next night.
6) Carry passing grades all season or 6:30 am study hall.

A couple of years ago, one senior player was caught with alcohol. All except for one player voted to have him back. He did not return. A couple of kids were late for curfew, they did not play. In the last couple of years, the random calls are less, the hair a little longer. The point is the coach can set the expectations. These rules are there for the player to demonstrate self discipline. There are some second chances, and you can make more of a mistake when you are younger. The point is the rules are laid out, simple, apply to everyone. It has veen very effective in Woodbury.

Whatever the outcome in WBL. Maybe a few simple rules might change some things. It becomes part of the team. The senior members laugh at the incoming Bantams that start with long hair. My son had to sprint to the door on one or two occasions to pick up the phone at 10:30. The coach sets the expectations, the players decide if they want to step up to them. It took only a couple of years to raise the bar and get the players that really wanted to play hockey. Five years ago, Woodbury supported a line at Hill and one at St. Thomas. Woodbury did not lose one from last years class. 3 years ago, one student transfer into Woodbury to play hockey.

Set the bar high again WBL.

[Sykes]

One more thing from my soap box. I have heard Coach Bolin say the turning point in Woodbury's hockey program was when Woodbury beat WBL for the first time. I believe WBL had beaten Woodbury the first 37 meetings. When your program's success is based on how well you did against a rival, it's a pretty good testament to your rivals program. WBL has always been a standard in which other programs have measured themselves.

[muckandgrind]

I smell something fishy here...

Sorry about that....must've been the calamari I ate last night.

[ilbok]

Sachi & friends eat goldfish and Orange roughy for breakfast.

With still no sign of the promised verifiable facts, this looks like Gossip, Girls.

[Goldfishdude]

Sachi & friends eat goldfish and Orange roughy for breakfast.

With still no sign of the promised verifiable facts, this looks like Gossip, Girls.

Ilbok..... here's some verifiable facts for you.

For the past three years, WBL's biggest conference rivals for the league title are Woodbury and Cretin-Derham Hall.

Sager-coached teams are 4-8 .333 winning percentage, and are 0-6 in the final week of the season versus those two teams, a time of the year your team should be improving. What's the latest record vs H-M?? 0-13 or something?? Combine those three teams and his record is 4-21 or a .190 winning percentage. To me, these numbers are alarming.

This past season saw WBL lose to Forest Lake and Mounds View for the first time in years.

He has issues winning the big games.