BodyShots wrote:WBL had a player that played Elite one year, and JGA the next. It's called breaking team rules and a lot of talented high school players end up playing JGA because of it. It doesn't mean they would beat the high school team though.
It must be that strong showing you had against HM in the sectionals where you get all this confidence. Edina, Wayzata, Burnsville, Minnetonka JGA against WBL's Varsity? I would bet on 3 out of those 4 teams.
I guess we should have a FORUM set up stricktly for JGA then. Ifs and buts where candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas. Now go back to eating your cherrios.
Ha, but you chose to partake in this lowly JG thread!
Maybe we should start a post on how the upper level A Bantam teams could beat JGA teams... Most of the "better" JGA teams wouldn`t stand a chance against an average Varsity team...Edina,Wayzata,Burnsville and Tonka were all decent teams,but having played all of them losing to Edina by 1,Wayzata by 1, tying Burnsville and losing to Tonka by 1, i can honestly say it would be a waste of ice time. Maybe take the best players... ya know i wonder if an upper level Pee Wee team could hold their own against a lower level Bantam team...ya know i wonder...why this post was even started in the first place
O-townClown wrote:
I'll throw out my guess at 40% of all Minnesota HSs. Maybe 25% of the Class AA teams and a little over half of the A.
WOW you guys really need to get over yourselfs,
Now don't get me wrong I'm sure these teams can beat some of the weaker high school teams but if they played a middle of the road team say like I falls or Grand Rapids this year, they would be slaughtered by the high school team.
Grand Rapids ended ranked 29th out of 70 AA teams. International Falls was 19th out of 87 A teams. As I said, the Junior Gold team would lose to teams like you mention.
Midpoint of Class A is Litchfield/Dassel-Cokato. East Ridge, Northfield, Kittson Central, and Proctor are in that vicinity. Are you really sure these teams are clearly better than the top handful of Jr. Gold?
Bottom quartile of Class AA is around Buffalo, Rosemount (3-23), Owatonna, and Shakopee.
Buffalo lost 10-1 to Moorhead, 10-1 to Edina, and 11-0 to Wayzata. When you say that a Jr. Gold team will get slaughtered by a good HS team, remember...many HIGH SCHOOL teams get slaughtered by a good HS team.
I stand by my statement. Not sure why I need to get over myself.
MnPride2 wrote:Maybe we should start a post on how the upper level A Bantam teams could beat JGA teams... Most of the "better" JGA teams wouldn`t stand a chance against an average Varsity team...Edina,Wayzata,Burnsville and Tonka were all decent teams,but having played all of them losing to Edina by 1,Wayzata by 1, tying Burnsville and losing to Tonka by 1, i can honestly say it would be a waste of ice time. Maybe take the best players... ya know i wonder if an upper level Pee Wee team could hold their own against a lower level Bantam team...ya know i wonder...why this post was even started in the first place
Our spring league team which is essentially our U16 team just played Chisago's Varsity spring league team which is essentially their varsity and they tied. They played Mahtomedi down to the wire in the sectional playoffs I believe, not sure on that. I think we outplayed them.
MnPride2 wrote:Maybe we should start a post on how the upper level A Bantam teams could beat JGA teams... Most of the "better" JGA teams wouldn`t stand a chance against an average Varsity team...Edina,Wayzata,Burnsville and Tonka were all decent teams,but having played all of them losing to Edina by 1,Wayzata by 1, tying Burnsville and losing to Tonka by 1, i can honestly say it would be a waste of ice time. Maybe take the best players... ya know i wonder if an upper level Pee Wee team could hold their own against a lower level Bantam team...ya know i wonder...why this post was even started in the first place
Our spring league team which is essentially our U16 team just played Chisago's Varsity spring league team which is essentially their varsity and they tied. They played Mahtomedi down to the wire in the sectional playoffs I believe, not sure on that. I think we outplayed them.
Pretty sure i said "average" Varsity team...Chisago has never been above average and there`s no way in hell you played Mahtomedis Varsity "down the wire"!!!
MnPride2 wrote:Maybe we should start a post on how the upper level A Bantam teams could beat JGA teams... Most of the "better" JGA teams wouldn`t stand a chance against an average Varsity team...Edina,Wayzata,Burnsville and Tonka were all decent teams,but having played all of them losing to Edina by 1,Wayzata by 1, tying Burnsville and losing to Tonka by 1, i can honestly say it would be a waste of ice time. Maybe take the best players... ya know i wonder if an upper level Pee Wee team could hold their own against a lower level Bantam team...ya know i wonder...why this post was even started in the first place
Our spring league team which is essentially our U16 team just played Chisago's Varsity spring league team which is essentially their varsity and they tied. They played Mahtomedi down to the wire in the sectional playoffs I believe, not sure on that. I think we outplayed them.
Pretty sure i said "average" Varsity team...Chisago has never been above average and there`s no way in hell you played Mahtomedis Varsity "down the wire"!!!
We didn't play Mahtomedi, they did. We aren't even a JGA team, we are just U16.
ok fine then,so now we`re talking about spring leagues being able to beat Varsity teams...or spring league teams that are able to beat JGA teams...or spring/JGA mixed teams that can beat Varsity teams,or Varsity teams that are mixed with U16/JGA and spring league players that can beat...
MnPride2 wrote:ok fine then,so now we`re talking about spring leagues being able to beat Varsity teams...or spring league teams that are able to beat JGA teams...or spring/JGA mixed teams that can beat Varsity teams,or Varsity teams that are mixed with U16/JGA and spring league players that can beat...
Yeah, kind of complicated. I believe I will open a beer and ponder that
[quote="MnPride2"]ok fine then,so now we`re talking about spring leagues being able to beat Varsity teams...or spring league teams that are able to beat JGA teams...or spring/JGA mixed teams that can beat Varsity teams,or Varsity teams that are mixed with U16/JGA and spring league players that can beat... [/quote]
pretty sure chisago lakes doesn't have a junior gold team bud, it was probably a preview of next years varsity team with many returners and some incoming, and jv players. last year my showcase team which was made up of mostly bantam b1 players tied the northfield varsity showcase team. southern and northern varsity teams are in many cases no better than some u16 teams.
I would think a big difference in varsity vs. junior gold play would be overall conditioning. I suppose workouts vary among teams, but I would guess the committment level and ice time might be less at jr. gold. Third periods might belong to the better conditioned teams.
MnPride2 wrote:ok fine then,so now we`re talking about spring leagues being able to beat Varsity teams...or spring league teams that are able to beat JGA teams...or spring/JGA mixed teams that can beat Varsity teams,or Varsity teams that are mixed with U16/JGA and spring league players that can beat...
pretty sure chisago lakes doesn't have a junior gold team bud, it was probably a preview of next years varsity team with many returners and some incoming, and jv players. last year my showcase team which was made up of mostly bantam b1 players tied the northfield varsity showcase team. southern and northern varsity teams are in many cases no better than some u16 teams.
Westsidefan wrote:I would think a big difference in varsity vs. junior gold play would be overall conditioning. I suppose workouts vary among teams, but I would guess the committment level and ice time might be less at jr. gold. Third periods might belong to the better conditioned teams.
The biggest difference would be the talent...JGA could not compete with High School...period!
Westsidefan wrote:I would think a big difference in varsity vs. junior gold play would be overall conditioning. I suppose workouts vary among teams, but I would guess the committment level and ice time might be less at jr. gold. Third periods might belong to the better conditioned teams.
The biggest difference would be the talent...JGA could not compete with High School...period!
Edina could have three varsity teams that would compete(to a certain degree) . They are always top 3 in A Bantams and Peewees and in B-1's they'll have 4 teams in the top 10 every year. I would bet money that top end JGA teams would be in the top 30% of varsity teams. Chisago Lakes pulls from one B-1 Bantam team that is hardly ever ranked.... Tons of talent in top end programs that don't make varsity
These JGA teams play 40 regular seasons games not including tournaments or playoffs. How many do Varsity teams play? Half that maybe? How many of them are competitive games? Half again?
Listen, there are many JGA kids who simply have bad tryouts because they play football, baseball-other sports than hockey. These kids who play hockey year around come into tryouts at their peak. I've seen it so many times, after New Years you see them take a nosedive in energy and skills. By the end of the season you would be shocked by one of these JGA teams and what they would do to your "talented" varsity.
We have two varsity kids on our spring league roster right now, the worst kids on the team. They don't pass and they are slow.
I don't mean to be disrespectful towards Varsity because I acknowledge that the best players SHOULD be Varsity. They are representing their schools ect.
We have a few kids on our team who didn't tryout and probably won't next year either. They just don't feel they have a fair chance of making the team and these kids have pride, no matter what you think. They choose to stick with their friends and play JGA.
I know we have at least 4 kids that would help our average varsity team, in fact be one of their better players on a team that has never made it to a state tourney. The politics and the cronyism carry the day still in that program so good players will continue to skip tryouts in favor of a more positive experience.
I have to ask with no dis-respect. What "average" varsity team Has 4 kids playing JG. Why don't these kids at least play J.V. in this program. I don't get it.
This topic comes up at every level and never really goes anywhere because, does it really matter? How many Bantam A teams could beat these JGA teams? How many HS teams could beat lower Jr "A" teams? Jr "A" teams over D3 college? D3 college over D1 college? and so on... There is overlap at every level of hockey.
The best JGA programs would beat half the high school teams at a minimum. Kid splay JG for a variety of reasons including not being good enough for the varsity but also because they want to play other sports, would rather play than sit on the bench while a kid with "potential" gets shifts, don't want to abide by school, team, or MSHSL rules, etc. If you don't think there is a good deal of talent in JG you're wrong, not that one JG team would beat the top high schools, they wouldn't but neither would most of the 120+ high schools.
goldy313 wrote:The best JGA programs would beat half the high school teams at a minimum. Kid splay JG for a variety of reasons including not being good enough for the varsity but also because they want to play other sports, would rather play than sit on the bench while a kid with "potential" gets shifts, don't want to abide by school, team, or MSHSL rules, etc. If you don't think there is a good deal of talent in JG you're wrong, not that one JG team would beat the top high schools, they wouldn't but neither would most of the 120+ high schools.
Totally agree, in fact the best JGA teams would beat MOST Varsity AA teams IMO. Teams like White Bear, Stillwater, Woodbury, Tartan would get thumped pretty good by Edina or Wayzata. Again, these teams are a special circumstance from associations with such an abundance of really good hockey players there just isn't enough spots for them.
These Jr Gold players are hungry and game tested, they play about twice as many games as the Varsity.
Hey I'm all for giving JGA kids props for sticking with it and working hard regardless of the reasons for the choice they've made on where to play, but to claim they would THUMP some pretty respectable varsities is just hog wash. No chance they have the depth to stick with a Woodbury or Stillwater. At the conclusion of this season our JGA (top 10) team asked to scrimmage some of our varsity guys and got absolutely smoked. The difference in the speed was to much for them. Its rare that you'll find even one of the top 5 to 10 kids in a program playing JGA instead of high school. Yes, I'm sure that a few of the top teams could have some success against the bottom end teams but I'd bet the farm that there are ZERO JGA teams that could thump Woodbury.
goldy313 wrote:The best JGA programs would beat half the high school teams at a minimum. Kid splay JG for a variety of reasons including not being good enough for the varsity but also because they want to play other sports, would rather play than sit on the bench while a kid with "potential" gets shifts, don't want to abide by school, team, or MSHSL rules, etc. If you don't think there is a good deal of talent in JG you're wrong, not that one JG team would beat the top high schools, they wouldn't but neither would most of the 120+ high schools.
Totally agree, in fact the best JGA teams would beat MOST Varsity AA teams IMO. Teams like White Bear, Stillwater, Woodbury, Tartan would get thumped pretty good by Edina or Wayzata. Again, these teams are a special circumstance from associations with such an abundance of really good hockey players there just isn't enough spots for them.
These Jr Gold players are hungry and game tested, they play about twice as many games as the Varsity.
Put down the BONG and come back to earth. Yes the best JGA teams would beat some High School varsity teams, but you better bring your standards down a bit. How about Rosemount, East Ridge, SLP, and TG.
goldy313 wrote:The best JGA programs would beat half the high school teams at a minimum. Kid splay JG for a variety of reasons including not being good enough for the varsity but also because they want to play other sports, would rather play than sit on the bench while a kid with "potential" gets shifts, don't want to abide by school, team, or MSHSL rules, etc. If you don't think there is a good deal of talent in JG you're wrong, not that one JG team would beat the top high schools, they wouldn't but neither would most of the 120+ high schools.
Totally agree, in fact the best JGA teams would beat MOST Varsity AA teams IMO. Teams like White Bear, Stillwater, Woodbury, Tartan would get thumped pretty good by Edina or Wayzata. Again, these teams are a special circumstance from associations with such an abundance of really good hockey players there just isn't enough spots for them.
These Jr Gold players are hungry and game tested, they play about twice as many games as the Varsity.
Put down the BONG and come back to earth. Yes the best JGA teams would beat some High School varsity teams, but you better bring your standards down a bit. How about Rosemount, East Ridge, SLP, and TG.
I'll bet you haven't seen Edina's JGA play right? I've seen all the varsity teams I've mentioned and I've seen Edina's JGA and I stand by the comment.
None of you made the state tourney and I haven't been impressed with any. I am impressed by Edina JGA however.
Hill played two very good games, you could make a very solid arguement the East got the better of them. All this comparison is pointless, JGA is a wonderful opportunity for kids to keep playing hockey.
Most of the "better" JGA teams wouldn`t stand a chance against an average Varsity team...Edina,Wayzata,Burnsville and Tonka were all decent teams,but having played all of them losing to Edina by 1,Wayzata by 1, tying Burnsville and losing to Tonka by 1, i can honestly say it would be a waste of ice time. Maybe take the best players... 
