Is the MN state hockey tournament really that bad?

[h-m fan]

For the past couple of weeks all I have read on here was how terrible the way this tournament is put together and how all these changes need to be made. I have a lot of this:
1) The seeding process must be changed. i.e. seed 1-8, or just pick the best 8 teams off of some poll and let them duke it out.

2) The sections need to be realligned so that it poses the easiest rout of the "highest rated" teams to get into the tournament. i.e. "enought with those damn southern and northern teams!"

3) We need to change the overtime rules. i.e. shootout, or 4 on 4 then 3 on 3.

Is the tournament really that bad??? I love it. I say dont touch it. Those overtime games in the tournament on the friday this year were awesome... I DONT WANT THOSE TO GO! I also like how a team like A.V. (who was a surprise to get out of their section, much less the first round in the tourney) got a chance to make some noise in the tourney and did. And I say get rid of the seeding all toghether. Every year they don't get it right in people's eyes and I just feel like at this age rankings shouldnt be a factor. I just fear that one day soon these people who want all this change will get what they want and the tournament will slowly lose all the magic... Does anyone feel the same way I do?

Just let it be.

[mngopherfan]

For the past couple of weeks all I have read on here was how terrible the way this tournament is put together and how all these changes need to be made. I have a lot of this:
1) The seeding process must be changed. i.e. seed 1-8, or just pick the best 8 teams off of some poll and let them duke it out.

2) The sections need to be realligned so that it poses the easiest rout of the "highest rated" teams to get into the tournament. i.e. "enought with those damn southern and northern teams!"

3) We need to change the overtime rules. i.e. shootout, or 4 on 4 then 3 on 3.

Is the tournament really that bad??? I love it. I say dont touch it. Those overtime games in the tournament on the friday this year were awesome... I DONT WANT THOSE TO GO! I also like how a team like A.V. (who was a surprise to get out of their section, much less the first round in the tourney) got a chance to make some noise in the tourney and did. And I say get rid of the seeding all toghether. Every year they don't get it right in people's eyes and I just feel like at this age rankings shouldnt be a factor. I just fear that one day soon these people who want all this change will get what they want and the tournament will slowly lose all the magic... Does anyone feel the same way I do?

Just let it be.

They should have a 16 team tournament where they rank all 16 teams. The first game for each team is played off site during the week. if you lose your first game you're out, then the remaining 8 teams move on to the X and so on and so fourth...best way to get the best teams to play it out for the championship.

[h-m fan]

For the past couple of weeks all I have read on here was how terrible the way this tournament is put together and how all these changes need to be made. I have a lot of this:
1) The seeding process must be changed. i.e. seed 1-8, or just pick the best 8 teams off of some poll and let them duke it out.

2) The sections need to be realligned so that it poses the easiest rout of the "highest rated" teams to get into the tournament. i.e. "enought with those damn southern and northern teams!"

3) We need to change the overtime rules. i.e. shootout, or 4 on 4 then 3 on 3.

Is the tournament really that bad??? I love it. I say dont touch it. Those overtime games in the tournament on the friday this year were awesome... I DONT WANT THOSE TO GO! I also like how a team like A.V. (who was a surprise to get out of their section, much less the first round in the tourney) got a chance to make some noise in the tourney and did. And I say get rid of the seeding all toghether. Every year they don't get it right in people's eyes and I just feel like at this age rankings shouldnt be a factor. I just fear that one day soon these people who want all this change will get what they want and the tournament will slowly lose all the magic... Does anyone feel the same way I do?

Just let it be.

They should have a 16 team tournament where they rank all 16 teams. The first game for each team is played off site during the week. if you lose your first game you're out, then the remaining 8 teams move on to the X and so on and so fourth...best way to get the best teams to play it out for the championship.

How would you pick those 16 teams? if you have 16 sections then thats fine with me? but if you just want them hand picked then I would say thats getting awfully close to a BCS-like system. I think every team in state should get a shot in the playoffs. Don't you? I don't think A.V would have been a sure thing to make a top 16 team list and yet they got 4th in the tourney. I think thats whats great about this sport the way it is now.

[ilbok]

Dumb idea. We already have 16 teams off-site; it's called section championships.

Go back to one class, allow Shattuck St. Mary's to compete, or Let It Be.

Easy for H-M fan to say since, like the Beatles, his Pioneers will always be Here, There and Everywhere.

Get Back ... Ticket to Ride ... A World without Love ... Carry that Weight ... Don't Ever Change ... I'll be Back ... I Don't Want to Spoil the Party ... I Me Mine ... I'm Happy Just to Dance with You ... In Spite of All the Danger ... It Won't Be Long ... Money ... Like Dreamers Do ... Magical Mystery Tour ... The Long and Winding Road ... There's a Place ... Wait ... You Know My Name (Look Up the Number) ... You Like Me Too Much....

[MNHockeyFan]

Go back to one class, allow Shattuck St. Mary's to compete, or Let It Be.

I can only think of one good thing about your thought of letting SSM in: It would make all of the whining about private schools recruiting even more pointless than it already is!

[CB00]

Go back to one class, allow Shattuck St. Mary's to compete, or Let It Be.

I can only think of one good thing about your thought of letting SSM in: It would make all of the whining about private schools recruiting even more pointless than it already is!

SSM doesn't want in! Why do they want to play in MHSL, they play Tier 1 AAA. They never will or would want to.

[ilbok]

They played Hill's JV this year.

[CB00]

They played Hill's JV this year.

Not the SSM Prep team That I do know!

Probably their 16U or 18U AA.

[ifallsin64]

I say throw SSM into Hills @ WB section, weakest (outside of section 1) by far. I remember when Centennial beat Hill to go to state and promply got moved to section 5.

[Roseauverrated]

For the past couple of weeks all I have read on here was how terrible the way this tournament is put together and how all these changes need to be made. I have a lot of this:
1) The seeding process must be changed. i.e. seed 1-8, or just pick the best 8 teams off of some poll and let them duke it out.

2) The sections need to be realligned so that it poses the easiest rout of the "highest rated" teams to get into the tournament. i.e. "enought with those damn southern and northern teams!"

3) We need to change the overtime rules. i.e. shootout, or 4 on 4 then 3 on 3.

Is the tournament really that bad??? I love it. I say dont touch it. Those overtime games in the tournament on the friday this year were awesome... I DONT WANT THOSE TO GO! I also like how a team like A.V. (who was a surprise to get out of their section, much less the first round in the tourney) got a chance to make some noise in the tourney and did. And I say get rid of the seeding all toghether. Every year they don't get it right in people's eyes and I just feel like at this age rankings shouldnt be a factor. I just fear that one day soon these people who want all this change will get what they want and the tournament will slowly lose all the magic... Does anyone feel the same way I do?

Just let it be.

They should have a 16 team tournament where they rank all 16 teams. The first game for each team is played off site during the week. if you lose your first game you're out, then the remaining 8 teams move on to the X and so on and so fourth...best way to get the best teams to play it out for the championship.

How would you pick those 16 teams? if you have 16 sections then thats fine with me? but if you just want them hand picked then I would say thats getting awfully close to a BCS-like system. I think every team in state should get a shot in the playoffs. Don't you? I don't think A.V would have been a sure thing to make a top 16 team list and yet they got 4th in the tourney. I think thats whats great about this sport the way it is now.

I disagree, this isn't even close to a BCS system. The BCS system just takes the top 2 rated teams and puts them together in the title game. Anyone with a brain could tell you that's a stupid system. This is pretty much like every major collegiate and professional sport out there. If you're not good enough during the regular season, you simply don't make the playoffs. Let's be honest, no team outside of the top 16 is going to win it all. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe its never happened before. Referring to your example about Apple Valley, sure they got 4th in the tourney but by no means does that mean they're the 4th best team in the state, there were plenty of teams that could have performed better than they did. I think they got rather lucky with their first round draw and wouldn't have stood a chance against the other seeded teams.

[Red Ice]

AGAIN I SAY

1 class 16 team State High School Hockey Tournement

Only know about section 8 and section 7, but it would be awesome up here.

The 8 section tourney winners are in and seeded 1-8. The section tourneys would still be very important.

All section tourney runner-ups host a 1 game play-in game. The 8 opponents are from teams that lost out earlier, they take the highest ranked 8 teams, section does not matter you could have multiple teams from 1 section. I don't know how these matchups would be made but distance would be a main factor.

8 2nd chance qualifiers seeded 9-16.

Great section tournements and a great state tourney.

Class size does not matter, private vs public does not matter all are welcome. The 4 1st round winners in class A 2010 easily would/could make this tourney.

Go back to Tier I Tier II if you want weaker teams at state.

[ilbok]

Northern guys love their backdoor.

Here's an idea:

Don't lose in sections!

BTW: Centennial lost in Hill's section a few more years before looking for an easier path in section 5 ...

at least the Cougars didn't drop all the way down to section 7, 8 or Tier II like the Broncos.

[nipe 6]

So sick of hearing complaints about the state hockey tourney. Its one of the biggest state tourneys in the nation so obviously they are doing something right. Everyone wants all the private schoolers to move up along with Warroad but why? If they move up either they will take a few teams spots at state or they wouldnt make it to state, making the single A tourney less appealing. Do you think when a team wins the single A championship the first thing that goes through their mind is "Are we really the best in the state?" (In reference to you guys comparing the single A champion to the AA). No, they are thinking that they just won the state championship and there couldnt be a better feeling in the world. And to all of those private school haters out there, why? No they shouldnt have to opt up to AA thats just rediculous and being stubborn. "They bring in players from all over so therefor they should have to move up." wa wa wa. The fact is their enrollment is below the the optin up level and they CHOSE not to move up. Obciously they dont care about your opinion of whether or not they are the real state champs or not. The tourney is AWESOME as it is and whatever the MSHSL is doing I encourage them to keep it up!!

[ilike2score]

A different spin on state tournies and comparisons. How many classes does basketball or even football have for the MN state tourney? Should we be on the football people to go to a one class system? If anything hockey needs more classes, IE. three classes... AA, Private, A, and B.

[h-m fan]

They should have a 16 team tournament where they rank all 16 teams. The first game for each team is played off site during the week. if you lose your first game you're out, then the remaining 8 teams move on to the X and so on and so fourth...best way to get the best teams to play it out for the championship.

How would you pick those 16 teams? if you have 16 sections then thats fine with me? but if you just want them hand picked then I would say thats getting awfully close to a BCS-like system. I think every team in state should get a shot in the playoffs. Don't you? I don't think A.V would have been a sure thing to make a top 16 team list and yet they got 4th in the tourney. I think thats whats great about this sport the way it is now.

I disagree, this isn't even close to a BCS system. The BCS system just takes the top 2 rated teams and puts them together in the title game. Anyone with a brain could tell you that's a stupid system. This is pretty much like every major collegiate and professional sport out there. If you're not good enough during the regular season, you simply don't make the playoffs. Let's be honest, no team outside of the top 16 is going to win it all. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe its never happened before. Referring to your example about Apple Valley, sure they got 4th in the tourney but by no means does that mean they're the 4th best team in the state, there were plenty of teams that could have performed better than they did. I think they got rather lucky with their first round draw and wouldn't have stood a chance against the other seeded teams.

OK right there you just proved my point. Blaine beats Hill early in the year, they get outshot and ran into a goalie who had a bad night. Because of their "tough" schudule they get placed in front of Hill and then Hill goes out and makes a case for being one of the best in state after a great performance against the best team in state (despite their terribly weak schedule ) Now you have everyone saying that Minnetonka should have won or at least would have had a better chance had they not gotten screwed by blaine getting the 3 seed over hill and had to play that 4OT game.
My point is people want a seeding system so the tourney board puts one in and what happens? they didnt get it right. This system that you are proposing would have MORE seeding and LESS performance. See what you people don't get is that even though AV wasnt maybe the most talented, they were a good TEAM because they played very good hockey when it mattered the most. They still had to win 3 games to get to the tourney just like everyone else that made it. To get there isn't easy and it shouldn't be. Thats what makes it great. If a team is really worthy of winning the state title then they should have to make it through sections first which isnt easy. you still have to show up and play. So I ask you again. Is the tournament THAT bad? Do you not watch because the people on this site (or any other site where people think they are smart enough to put the best teams in order from 1 to 10) and you see a team that is not on those lists? If you do then stop watching sports because you will always get dissapointed!

[pioneers]

A different spin on state tournies and comparisons. How many classes does basketball or even football have for the MN state tourney? Should we be on the football people to go to a one class system? If anything hockey needs more classes, IE. three classes... AA, Private, A, and B.

Yeah and let's give everyone a trophy because everyone is a winner!!!

[StillAnEagle]

This tourney is among the few premier HS tourneys in the country. It is "good" where it's at now. It could be "the best" if the MSHSL leveraged the passion you see on these boards and redesigned it (somehow getting down to a combined A/AA tourney). This is why the Super Bowl, World Series, and Stanley Cup are all "the best" and produce "mania". Can you imagine if they divided up these leagues into 2 championships based on market size or even Tiers? Good heavens...

How would you pick those 16 teams? if you have 16 sections then thats fine with me? but if you just want them hand picked then I would say thats getting awfully close to a BCS-like system. I think every team in state should get a shot in the playoffs. Don't you? I don't think A.V would have been a sure thing to make a top 16 team list and yet they got 4th in the tourney. I think thats whats great about this sport the way it is now.

I disagree, this isn't even close to a BCS system. The BCS system just takes the top 2 rated teams and puts them together in the title game. Anyone with a brain could tell you that's a stupid system. This is pretty much like every major collegiate and professional sport out there. If you're not good enough during the regular season, you simply don't make the playoffs. Let's be honest, no team outside of the top 16 is going to win it all. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe its never happened before. Referring to your example about Apple Valley, sure they got 4th in the tourney but by no means does that mean they're the 4th best team in the state, there were plenty of teams that could have performed better than they did. I think they got rather lucky with their first round draw and wouldn't have stood a chance against the other seeded teams.

OK right there you just proved my point. Blaine beats Hill early in the year, they get outshot and ran into a goalie who had a bad night. Because of their "tough" schudule they get placed in front of Hill and then Hill goes out and makes a case for being one of the best in state after a great performance against the best team in state (despite their terribly weak schedule ) Now you have everyone saying that Minnetonka should have won or at least would have had a better chance had they not gotten screwed by blaine getting the 3 seed over hill and had to play that 4OT game.
My point is people want a seeding system so the tourney board puts one in and what happens? they didnt get it right. This system that you are proposing would have MORE seeding and LESS performance. See what you people don't get is that even though AV wasnt maybe the most talented, they were a good TEAM because they played very good hockey when it mattered the most. They still had to win 3 games to get to the tourney just like everyone else that made it. To get there isn't easy and it shouldn't be. Thats what makes it great. If a team is really worthy of winning the state title then they should have to make it through sections first which isnt easy. you still have to show up and play. So I ask you again. Is the tournament THAT bad? Do you not watch because the people on this site (or any other site where people think they are smart enough to put the best teams in order from 1 to 10) and you see a team that is not on those lists? If you do then stop watching sports because you will always get dissapointed!

[td577]

There is no reason to change anything. The state tournament starts with the section play-in games and ends at the X a few weeks later. Every team in the state of MN makes the playoffs. How can anyone come to the conclusion this is an unfair system?

It isn't unfair that your team didn't get through the sections. It isn't unfair the section winners are the only ones invited to the cities. It is unfair that 100 stupid ideas have to come forward every year because someone thinks their team got slighted by losing in the section tournament.

No 16 team state tourney format. Lets go with dividing the state up into 8 sections, have the team that wins the section tourney go onto the X, and then win 3 games to become state champion. Oh, never mind, that is the way it is already done. Anyway you slice it, those are the best respective section teams left at that point in the season. Why would you want it any other way?

[SunshineStateHockey]

I think the tournament is about as good as it can get, you need a 2 class system at this point because the odds of a smaller school even making it to State is now very very small (I would say Roseau is a very big anomaly). The only thing I can think of that could possibly make it better, although it would chew up an extra week of time, would be to bring back the back door tournament. That way you could eliminate the problem of a No.1 team beating a No.2 team in the sectionals and having the potentially second best team in state left out of a tournament. I know that was an old standard that went away as more and more schools got programs, but I think some teams like Wayzetta and Jefferson would have liked to have that opportunity this year.

[The51]

Go back to one class, allow Shattuck St. Mary's to compete, or Let It Be.

I can only think of one good thing about your thought of letting SSM in: It would make all of the whining about private schools recruiting even more pointless than it already is!

SSM doesn't want in! Why do they want to play in MHSL, they play Tier 1 AAA. They never will or would want to.

right why would they ever want to go from playing 80 games a year to 25

[timcorbin21]

maybe going to a 3 or 4 class system would help. theres just such a gap between top and bottom.

[pioneers]

maybe going to a 3 or 4 class system would help. theres just such a gap between top and bottom.

Again, let's just make enough classes so everyone can get a trophy. The interest in the class A tournament is not even that big. Who would go to a 3rd or 4th class of tourney? 2 classes are plenty.

[nipe 6]

Make it from "good" to the "best"? If they made changes I gaurantee you that they would not get any bigger. Where would the extra ratings come from? Everyone in the state of Minnesota basically watches it that have any slight interest. I just dont see any changes that could be make it better unless they broadcasted nation wide. Which obviously wont happen.

[h-m fan]

Make it from "good" to the "best"? If they made changes I gaurantee you that they would not get any bigger. Where would the extra ratings come from? Everyone in the state of Minnesota basically watches it that have any slight interest. I just dont see any changes that could be make it better unless they broadcasted nation wide. Which obviously wont happen.

Well said sir.

[PuckRanger]

Anyone who has any issue with the state tournament needs to take a look at the Wisconsin state tournament or the North Dakota state tournament (or any other for that matter) and think about things for a minute... If it doesn't come in crystal clear, you should probably be committed somewhere.... and soon!