Hill-Murray 08' team compared to Edina 10' team

[H-M 4 Life]

I think that these teams that won state are very similar to one another. Both had 4 solid lines and six solid defensemen with the only difference in my opinion being the goaltender. Joe Phillippi was absolutely amazing back in 2008. Both Edina and Hill came into the season with no one really talking about them as contenders and when they both made it to state not a lot of people thought they could win the whole thing with the competition in the tournament. I think Hill had a much more difficult path back in 2008 with Roseau being on a 41 game winning streak and Edina having their 1st line of Budish, Lee, and Everson. Either way both teams were deserving of the title. What do you guys think? [/list]

[wingmaster]

don't really know unless they play.

[HappyHockeyFan]

Well...the 2008 team won state, the 2010 team did not...so it seems to me 2008 was the better team..

[O-townClown]

I think Hill had a much more difficult path back in 2008 with Roseau being on a 41 game winning streak and Edina having their 1st line of Budish, Lee, and Everson.

I think you're wrong.

Edina beat:

* Holy Angels
* Jefferson
* Roseau
* Apple Valley
* Minnetonka

Hill-Murray is rarely tested in sections. Minnetonka was considered pretty much unbeatable through January.

It is an oddity that no team has won Schwan Cup and the state title in the same year. (I think that's right.)

[east hockey]

Edina 2010.

Lee

[hockeyman84]

Well...the 2008 team won state, the 2010 team did not...so it seems to me 2008 was the better team..

Ummm Both teams won state HHF

[DmanDad1980]

Both teams played excellent team concepts, with solid systems...

Both teams have very good players, but in watching both teams at the X, what really strikes me is the team defense both these teams played to win State Titles...

IMO, both teams bought heart and soul into what their talented coaching staffs put together into game plans to neutralize the opponent, then capitalizing on the opportunities presented through their hard work...

Hill did it to Roseau & Edina in '08, almost did it to Tonka this year... Hornets did it to AV & Tonka this year...

Great systems, very good coaches and talented kids w/ speed to carry out the plan... Many similarities between these two teams...
Systems carried both teams...

[StayAtHomeD]

I think Hill Murray was the best team in the state this year and I'm sticking to that. Sometimes the best team doesn't win.

[muckandgrind]

I think Curt Giles learned a lot from that '08 match-up with Hill-Murray and how Lechner rolled his lines, while Edina ran with two lines and didn't have the legs at the end.

[StayAtHomeD]

I think Curt Giles learned a lot from that '08 match-up with Hill-Murray and how Lechner rolled his lines, while Edina ran with two lines and didn't have the legs at the end.

Willard Ikola did that 30 years ago. All he had to do was look at his own team's history for that formula.

[ilbok]

Congrats to both teams ... well deserved ... outstanding tourneys ...

however the edge has to go to the 2008 Hill-Murray Pioneers:

Lou Nanne said the 2008 Pioneers played better than any team in his history with the tourney;
he was much more reserved in his praise for his hometown Hornets.

Nobody but Hill-Murray gave the 2008 Pioneers a chance versus the #1 undefeateds and the #2 super-recruits,
but they shocked the world and beat both convincingly.

The 2010 Hornets came in already with the #2 seeding,
did not have to face another seeded team on the way to the final,
and met a team they had already defeated in the championship.

Plus, Edina received some assists from Hill-Murray,
not only by Hill supplying the coach who revamped the Hornets' defense,
but also by Hill's softening of the favorites with an overwhelming & punishing semifinal.

[halla]

Good points.

But...

the #2 super-recruits

presumably refers to the 2008 Hornets, which was in fact a team made up 100% of players who grew up playing hockey in Edina.


And...

Hill supplying the coach who revamped the Hornets' defense

uh... what??

[ilbok]

1. super D-1 recruits ... college recruits (although Anders Lee did transfer in from STA)

2. Four X Stanley Cup winner & Hill-Murray grad, Dave Langevin, revamped the D (previously considered a Hornet weakness)

[halla]

1. super D-1 recruits ... college recruits (although Anders Lee did transfer in from STA)

2. Four X Stanley Cup winner and Hill-Murray grad, Dave Langevin, revamped the D which previously had been considered a Hornet weakness.

ok - now I'm with ya (and of course, though an STA transfer, Lee was also an Edina squirt and pee wee)

[h-m fan]

I think Hill had a much more difficult path back in 2008 with Roseau being on a 41 game winning streak and Edina having their 1st line of Budish, Lee, and Everson.

I think you're wrong.

Edina beat:

* Holy Angels
* Jefferson
* Roseau
* Apple Valley
* Minnetonka

Hill-Murray is rarely tested in sections. Minnetonka was considered pretty much unbeatable through January.

It is an oddity that no team has won Schwan Cup and the state title in the same year. (I think that's right.)

If you think that Hill is rarely tested in sections, you clearly haven't been watching the section games at the colliseum for the past 30+ years.

[selloutcrowd99]

If you think that Hill is rarely tested in sections, you clearly haven't been watching the section games at the colliseum for the past 30+ years.

Sorry, you're wrong. In recent years (yes I don't care about 30+ years ago), Hill pretty much has had a cakewalk to sections. Ask Burnsville, Jefferson, Eden Prairie, or Wayzata if they'd like to be in Hills spot for sections and it would be a yes for every single team. They had to beat White Bear Lake to go to state, and sorry but they were just not very good this year.

[sachishi4]

thats one year...

[h-m fan]

If you think that Hill is rarely tested in sections, you clearly haven't been watching the section games at the colliseum for the past 30+ years.

Sorry, you're wrong. In recent years (yes I don't care about 30+ years ago), Hill pretty much has had a cakewalk to sections. Ask Burnsville, Jefferson, Eden Prairie, or Wayzata if they'd like to be in Hills spot for sections and it would be a yes for every single team. They had to beat White Bear Lake to go to state, and sorry but they were just not very good this year.

Again, you must not have been paying attention. Yes they had a "cakewalk" this year. But you implied that this is a recurring things when you said in recent years(plural). Last year Hill took two overtime wins to get to state. 2 years ago, when they won it all, it took a scrappy 2-1 victory over WBL to propel them to state. 3 years ago same story. 4 years ago they took multiple OTs to get past WBL again. There is always going to be that stacked section every year. But that same section might be considered a weaker section the next year. When it was Hill, WBL, and centennial everyone was saying how they needed to break that section up because people considered those 3 teams to be teams that should be at the X annually. Now people are saying that the sections should be broken up again. Yes, Section 4 wasn't the strongest section this year, but who is to say that it wont be considered too strong again in a couple years? maybe even next year.... You can change sections all you want but it is impossible to keep the best teams each year out of the same sections. impossible. It's still the greatest hockey event year in and year out, and I say dont touch it.

[WBLHockeyfan04]

If you think that Hill is rarely tested in sections, you clearly haven't been watching the section games at the colliseum for the past 30+ years.

Sorry, you're wrong. In recent years (yes I don't care about 30+ years ago), Hill pretty much has had a cakewalk to sections. Ask Burnsville, Jefferson, Eden Prairie, or Wayzata if they'd like to be in Hills spot for sections and it would be a yes for every single team. They had to beat White Bear Lake to go to state, and sorry but they were just not very good this year.

'
Yeah, WBL wasn't as evenly matched with them this year. But they only beat WBL 2-1 in '08. (Hill's championship year) And since their run of consecutive state appearances that began in 06. These are the scores of all their games against WBL in sections.

'06 Hill-5 WBL-4 2OT's (One of the best games I've ever witnessed)
'07 Hill-3 WBL-1 (WBL outshot them 27-12)
'08 Hill-2 WBL-1
'09 Hill-5 WBL-4 OT (WBL was the better team in this game)
'10 Hill-5 WBL-1

Other than this year. I wouldn't say that path is too easy to state. Maybe you should catch one of their section games one of these years before you start saying it's a cakewalk.

Oh, and back in 03, 04, and 05 you can make the argument that there wasn't a stronger section. Since Centennial left after '06, it hasn't been as strong. But I expect WBL to be stronger next year, and have another great matchup with Hill. Hopefully finally ending the Pioneers run.

[selloutcrowd99]

Ok, It may not be a cakewalk but when you compare it to sections 2 and 6, it does seem like it. That is all I'm saying. I am not discrediting Hill-Murray in any way, they deserved to be at state this year, as well as the other years. Last year, it wasn't a cakewalk but the section was still weak because Hill wasn't as good due to all of the talent they lost halfway through the season. If you aren't a Hill fan (or WBL), put yourself in some other teams shoes...

[h-m fan]

If you think that Hill is rarely tested in sections, you clearly haven't been watching the section games at the colliseum for the past 30+ years.

Sorry, you're wrong. In recent years (yes I don't care about 30+ years ago), Hill pretty much has had a cakewalk to sections. Ask Burnsville, Jefferson, Eden Prairie, or Wayzata if they'd like to be in Hills spot for sections and it would be a yes for every single team. They had to beat White Bear Lake to go to state, and sorry but they were just not very good this year.

'
Yeah, WBL wasn't as evenly matched with them this year. But they only beat WBL 2-1 in '08. (Hill's championship year) And since their run of consecutive state appearances that began in 06. These are the scores of all their games against WBL in sections.

'06 Hill-5 WBL-4 2OT's (One of the best games I've ever witnessed)
'07 Hill-3 WBL-1 (WBL outshot them 27-12)
'08 Hill-2 WBL-1
'09 Hill-5 WBL-4 OT (WBL was the better team in this game)
'10 Hill-5 WBL-1

Other than this year. I wouldn't say that path is too easy to state. Maybe you should catch one of their section games one of these years before you start saying it's a cakewalk.

Oh, and back in 03, 04, and 05 you can make the argument that there wasn't a stronger section. Since Centennial left after '06, it hasn't been as strong. But I expect WBL to be stronger next year, and have another great matchup with Hill. Hopefully finally ending the Pioneers run.

WBLHF.... you're the man.

[WBLHockeyfan04]

Ok, It may not be a cakewalk but when you compare it to sections 2 and 6, it does seem like it. That is all I'm saying. I am not discrediting Hill-Murray in any way, they deserved to be at state this year, as well as the other years. Last year, it wasn't a cakewalk but the section was still weak because Hill wasn't as good due to all of the talent they lost halfway through the season. If you aren't a Hill fan (or WBL), put yourself in some other teams shoes...

I understand what you're saying. But every three years it seems like one or two sections are much deeper than the other sections. That currently is the case with 2AA and 6AA. 6AA should be pretty strong again next year, with Eden Prairie and Wayzata being two of the top teams in the state. I can see 3AA with Apple Valley and Eagan being pretty strong over the next couple years, and I'm sure some other sections will be stronger too. Plus, a realignment usually occurs every 2 or 3 years. So I think 2AA and 6AA will start to tail off a bit.

[selloutcrowd99]

Ok, It may not be a cakewalk but when you compare it to sections 2 and 6, it does seem like it. That is all I'm saying. I am not discrediting Hill-Murray in any way, they deserved to be at state this year, as well as the other years. Last year, it wasn't a cakewalk but the section was still weak because Hill wasn't as good due to all of the talent they lost halfway through the season. If you aren't a Hill fan (or WBL), put yourself in some other teams shoes...

I understand what you're saying. But every three years it seems like one or two sections are much deeper than the other sections. That currently is the case with 2AA and 6AA. 6AA should be pretty strong again next year, with Eden Prairie and Wayzata being two of the top teams in the state. I can see 3AA with Apple Valley and Eagan being pretty strong over the next couple years, and I'm sure some other sections will be stronger too. Plus, a realignment usually occurs every 2 or 3 years. So I think 2AA and 6AA will start to tail off a bit.

Let's face it- Nothing will ever be fair!

[h-m fan]

Ok, It may not be a cakewalk but when you compare it to sections 2 and 6, it does seem like it. That is all I'm saying. I am not discrediting Hill-Murray in any way, they deserved to be at state this year, as well as the other years. Last year, it wasn't a cakewalk but the section was still weak because Hill wasn't as good due to all of the talent they lost halfway through the season. If you aren't a Hill fan (or WBL), put yourself in some other teams shoes...

I understand what you're saying. But every three years it seems like one or two sections are much deeper than the other sections. That currently is the case with 2AA and 6AA. 6AA should be pretty strong again next year, with Eden Prairie and Wayzata being two of the top teams in the state. I can see 3AA with Apple Valley and Eagan being pretty strong over the next couple years, and I'm sure some other sections will be stronger too. Plus, a realignment usually occurs every 2 or 3 years. So I think 2AA and 6AA will start to tail off a bit.

Let's face it- Nothing will ever be fair!

It really depends on what your definition of fair is. If you want the teams that you think are the "best" and should get an easy ride to the state championship then you are right.... nothing in this sport will ever be fair. My definition of fair is that every team has a chance. Whether it is a team who has lost one game all year or a team thats won one game all year, everyone has a shot of getting to the X. Everyone gets a chance every year in one big tournament that coincidentally moves to the X once the field is stripped down to 8 teams. So in my opinion everyone has the same shot at getting to the state tournament and no one has it easy. Some have it tougher than others, but no one has it easy. You need to beat the best to be the best. Thats fair. And that is why I will always love hs hockey above all other sports. That is until people who want drastic change get their way....

[ilbok]

Minneapolis suburbs love to overestimate the relative strength of their teams.

Minnetonka was considered a class to itself all year until being dominated and barely escaping Hill-Murray in four overtimes. Edina benefited from a generous seeding in not facing the Pioneers.

Last year, Edina was knocked out in the quarterfinals while Eden Prairie only advanced past Hill-Murray's JV team on a bogus overtime goal.

In years prior, Hill's section was widely considered the toughest when White Bear Lake, Centennial, Roseville, et al had ranked teams.

Hill-Murray had a tougher time with its section than it did with Edina in the 2008 state championship, and Centennial barely squeaked past Hill on its way to shutting out the 2004 tournament field.

The same has held true for many of Hill's tournament teams, including the last single class champions who had to face Minnesota's top ranked teams in sections before tearing through the 1991 state tournament competition.

Despite Hill-Murray's tough sections and the only schedule in Minnesota comprised completely of historical state tournament participants, you don't hear the Pioneers whining like those Minneapolis suburbs.