Holy Family Shot totals

[flatontheice]

Should a father be the one keeping the official score sheet for shots when his son the goalie?

[BodyShots]

I think all goalie father's keep track of their sons/daughters shots faced.

How about you GFD?

[blueblood]

When your dad is the team doctor for the MN Gophers (I mean Goofers), then YES!

BTW - I'm a goalie dad and I don't keep track of shots.

[Goldfishdude]

I think all goalie father's keep track of their sons/daughters shots faced.

How about you GFD?

Ha.... funny smartie pants..... My son would actually have to suit up and play a game for that to happen!!

If the parent is doing it for the right reason (like I did), like charting shot locations, how the saves were made (blocker, glove, leg pads, etc) and how the goals are scored to use as a teaching tool, then it's beneficial.

And when I did that, I usually conferred with the official scorers to verify any large discrepencies on what shot totals there were.

The mistake most BAD official scorers is that saves are credited any time a goalie touches the puck..... like a glove save when the puck was clearly over the top of the net, a blocker save when the puck is 3-feet wide of the net, or a save from a shot outside the blue-line when it can be clear as the INTENT of the shooter - was it just a dump in that hit the net, or was it a guy taking a shot on goal?

When I charted for both goalies, I had the other goalie's parents ask me about shots, and when I would tell them 25, they would question me, because of the very thought that their son was making all the touches on shots off/wide/over the net, they felt they were saves, and they weren't.

[Goldfishdude]

Should a father be the one keeping the official score sheet for shots when his son the goalie?

And to further question this flatman, what is a parent doing in the box for a HS game? It seems to me that the vast majority of the rinks I have seen games at this year have been county employees, or employees of the rinks. Don't recall too many parents.

[mulefarm]

Why would anyone care???

[SWPrez]

I tracked my kids shots through youth hockey. It was important for him to know what his save percentage was. Forwards have their goals and assists, defense have their takeouts, goalies have save percentage. When I told him I wasn't tracking summer AAA shots he began doing it, because it gave him a benchmark for his performance.

The other one we tracked was his rebound control stat. Worked like this:
1 for a save where he controlled the puck
2 for a save where he steered to the corner
3 for a rebound where positioning is maintained between puck and goal
4 for a rebound given to an unprotected side
5 for a goal

Better stat than save percentage as he would focus on how he was controlling the game through how he played and controlled the puck on a save.

Should dads track? If no one else is going to do it, absolutely. Stats give feedback and can be used to improve performance. Dads must also be honest about what is a shot and what isn't as has been posted on this thread.

[wblhockeyfan8]

Goldy tracks number of concussion I think!

Kidding of course GFD and son!

[Goldfishdude]

Goldy tracks number of concussion I think!

Kidding of course GFD and son!

Hey, Fan8!!! Because he can't remember too well, I have to remind him that slap shots to the helmet proves he can actually stop a shot. He gives it one last try tomorrow night!!! His first game back since Jan 21.

Needless to say, I won't be charting shots. I will be charting his medical records with the paramedics.

[hockeydad]

Should a father be the one keeping the official score sheet for shots when his son the goalie?

And to further question this flatman, what is a parent doing in the box for a HS game? It seems to me that the vast majority of the rinks I have seen games at this year have been county employees, or employees of the rinks. Don't recall too many parents.

You must not spend a lot of time in smaller schools. I've seen many places where the announcer, timer, scorer and both penalty boxes are manned by volunteer parents.

[PoniesDad45]

I think all goalie father's keep track of their sons/daughters shots faced.

How about you GFD?

Heh, when I first read it I thought he meant should a "Father" as in Catholic Priest, as in Holy Family.....keep the shots on goal tallly

I was thinking those guys are busy enough without this duty

[Goldfishdude]

I think all goalie father's keep track of their sons/daughters shots faced.

How about you GFD?

Heh, when I first read it I thought he meant should a "Father" as in Catholic Priest, as in Holy Family.....keep the shots on goal tallly

[BodyShots]

I think all goalie father's keep track of their sons/daughters shots faced.

How about you GFD?

Ha.... funny smartie pants..... My son would actually have to suit up and play a game for that to happen!!

If the parent is doing it for the right reason (like I did), like charting shot locations, how the saves were made (blocker, glove, leg pads, etc) and how the goals are scored to use as a teaching tool, then it's beneficial.

And when I did that, I usually conferred with the official scorers to verify any large discrepencies on what shot totals there were.

The mistake most BAD official scorers is that saves are credited any time a goalie touches the puck..... like a glove save when the puck was clearly over the top of the net, a blocker save when the puck is 3-feet wide of the net, or a save from a shot outside the blue-line when it can be clear as the INTENT of the shooter - was it just a dump in that hit the net, or was it a guy taking a shot on goal?

When I charted for both goalies, I had the other goalie's parents ask me about shots, and when I would tell them 25, they would question me, because of the very thought that their son was making all the touches on shots off/wide/over the net, they felt they were saves, and they weren't.

I was always under the impression that any shot on net should be considered a goal or save, regardless of where it was taken from. If they are not considered saves, then I'm sure Mr. Frazee would like to wipe away from his GAA, those 180 foot goals he gave up.

[Goldfishdude]

Just like on-ice officials with judgement calls, the guy in the box is the "official" scorer, and it's his judgement. I always predicated it on the intent.

If a breakaway, and the goalie poke checks the puckhandler is that a shot on goal? No shot was attempted.... the goalie was far out of the crease??? Shot??

Guy standing at right post. D-man whips a pass, hits the guy's stick by the post, but goalie quickly poke checks at the same time it hits the tape, knocking the puck away?? Shot??

In reference to Frazee's 1-mile goal against. It was a goal, so it's counted as such, but again, if it's a bouncing puck that requires a traditional save, a good scorer rules a shot, but if a PK and someone just blindly throws the puck out of the zone and the goalie just stops the puck to throw to his d-man, most guys shouldn't count that. (unless my son is in nets)

One of the definitions I saw was " a scoring attempt" which reflects intent. This is the Wikipedia definition.

"A count of how many shots are taken by a team is kept and this is often used as rough guide to which team is being more aggressive and dominant. A scoring attempt in hockey (as opposed to soccer) is officially counted as a shot only when it is directed on goal, resulting in a goal or requiring the goaltender to make a save. This is called a shot on goal."

My interpretation has always been when a player is clearing the zone as a dump in for a line change or a PK should not constitiute intent on a scoring attempt.

[SWPrez]

Just like on-ice officials with judgement calls, the guy in the box is the "official" scorer, and it's his judgement. I always predicated it on the intent.

If a breakaway, and the goalie poke checks the puckhandler is that a shot on goal? No shot was attempted.... the goalie was far out of the crease??? Shot??

Guy standing at right post. D-man whips a pass, hits the guy's stick by the post, but goalie quickly poke checks at the same time it hits the tape, knocking the puck away?? Shot??

In reference to Frazee's 1-mile goal against. It was a goal, so it's counted as such, but again, if it's a bouncing puck that requires a traditional save, a good scorer rules a shot, but if a PK and someone just blindly throws the puck out of the zone and the goalie just stops the puck to throw to his d-man, most guys shouldn't count that. (unless my son is in nets)

One of the definitions I saw was " a scoring attempt" which reflects intent. This is the Wikipedia definition.

"A count of how many shots are taken by a team is kept and this is often used as rough guide to which team is being more aggressive and dominant. A scoring attempt in hockey (as opposed to soccer) is officially counted as a shot only when it is directed on goal, resulting in a goal or requiring the goaltender to make a save. This is called a shot on goal."

My interpretation has always been when a player is clearing the zone as a dump in for a line change or a PK should not constitiute intent on a scoring attempt.

Shot rule is simple - if the puck was shot by an opponent and would have gone in the net...it should be scored a shot. This includes icings on net, dump ins, etc. Yep, so even the light shots should be recorded.

A goalie poke checking an opponent is not a shot as the puck would not have entered the net at the time of the play.

I once had a goalie coach say the best stat for a goalie would be one that records the percentage of all shots to those that score - both on net and wide. His reasoning was that a quality goalie will normally take away all angle for a shooter and a quality shooter will shoot the puck not into the goalie, but to the side of a goalie - resulting in the shot going wide. That shot is never recorded because it went wide....but against a poorer goaltender that didn't play angles well, that puck is in the net.

Obviously, no one records all shots - wide and on net...but food for thought.

[blueblood]

Agree with SWPrez. A shot is a shot, no matter where it came from.

GFD - would you want your son to stop the puck, no matter where a player was on the rink, if he had to?

[keepmeoutofit]

to "flatontheice" i dont think they should. but they often do. At least in the A schools that we see. A parent tracking shots to help his goalie get some feedback is a good thing. A parent doing the official tracking is inappropriate. Most would say they do it to make sure shots are counted "correctly". but the truth is many goalie parents see a lot more saves than they should. I'd also like to see the friends of the goalie parents stay away from the scoring sheet.
saw a few goalie parents in the scoring box during elite II that lost save #s when junior got scorched

[pipes3030]

I agree with GFD. I have an NHL rulebook which clearly defines a shot on goal as a shot taken with the intent to score (not icings that happen to find the net). I know that high school isn't the NHL, but that is how they count them in the show.

[HShockeywatcher]

Obviously, no one records all shots - wide and on net...but food for thought.

Experience would tell me different. I have often seen goalies make saves above or to the side of the net that get counted as shots. Pretty dumb.

I also often wonder why the goalie bothers to make those saves. I would think there would be more that could go wrong with trying to save a wide/high shot than just letting it go.

[pipes3030]

Obviously, no one records all shots - wide and on net...but food for thought.

Experience would tell me different. I have often seen goalies make saves above or to the side of the net that get counted as shots. Pretty dumb.

I also often wonder why the goalie bothers to make those saves. I would think there would be more that could go wrong with trying to save a wide/high shot than just letting it go.

I'm pretty sure it would be natural instinct. They see the puck coming within reach and they want to catch/stop it.

[nine mile]

So if a player did not intend to take a shot on goal and it went into the net ,it would not count as a goal ?

[HShockeywatcher]

So if a player did not intend to take a shot on goal and it went into the net ,it would not count as a goal ?

You'd get the goal, but it wouldn't count as a shot on goal, right? Right?

Like if you shoot it from the side at an angle that it would simply go by but the goalie deflects it in, you get an assist, no shot on goal, but a goal is scored.

[EREmpireStrikesBack]

So if a player did not intend to take a shot on goal and it went into the net ,it would not count as a goal ?

You'd get the goal, but it wouldn't count as a shot on goal, right? Right?

Like if you shoot it from the side at an angle that it would simply go by but the goalie deflects it in, you get an assist, no shot on goal, but a goal is scored.

He's starting to catch on!

[Goldfishdude]

Agree with SWPrez. A shot is a shot, no matter where it came from.

GFD - would you want your son to stop the puck, no matter where a player was on the rink, if he had to?

Bloodman.... well, of course, but if he has seven of those dump-ins out of 20 shots and gives up one goal, am I going to rate his performance on stopping 19 of 20 shots or 14 of 15?? A good judge is 14 of 15.

More importantly, to find a more accurate sheet, such as drawing a triangle from face off-circle to face-off circle to the goal posts, and any quality shot from that area is considered a scoring chance. If you watch a Gophs or Wild game, you will see the period breakdown of shots and scoring chances... For example 12 SOG for the period with 4 scoring chances, and 2 goals... which means that the goalie only really made 2 quality saves. Not too good. A shot from outside the circles or blue line really shouldn't go in, but again, up to the judgement of the official scorer to deem that shot a scoring chance.

I have seen many games with 22 SOG and 6 scoring chances, two goals, so it makes the goalie look like he was pretty good stopping 20 of 22 shots.

I have also seen 18 shots, 2 goals with 12 scoring chances - most everything within that triangle.

So, in judging the two goalies, the goalie that stopped 16 of 18 shots with 12 scoring chances had the better game than the 20 of 22 with 6 scoring chances.

We have talked about the Simley goalie where he faces 50 shots a game and gives up 7 goals. His save percentage is less than the ideal 90%, but I sure would like to see how many scoring chances on secobd and third shots off rebounds. If he faces 35 scoring chances vs H-M and gives up 7 goals, I'd day he had a pretty darn good game.