"Tonka Time!"

[mn man]

Great article in the Feb 2010 Minnesota Hockey Journal (comes with the USA Hockey mag) about Tonka HS Hockey and how they have become so successful.

Sorry, I could not find a link to it anywhere on the net, but here are some excerpts:

"Boys' varsity coach Brian Urick believes quality programming and effective coaching from Mites on up is key to combating what he calls the "pyramid", or burn out factor. 'Lots of kids drop out of hockey because they do not enjoy the game,' he says. 'We want to keep as many kids involved as possible, which does not happen when coaches focus on three or four of the team's best players. We want to make sure every kid gets better- don't worry about the wins and losses.' "

" 'Winning is a byproduct - it is not something we strive for as a first priority,' adds girls Varsity coach Eric Johnson. Coaching players to compete to win every day, he says, 'promotes long-term development and confidence in players, as opposed to the more near sighted 'coaches coaching for today's win' at the development of some players - while at the expense of others.' "

Now I do not know if this stuff is true throughout the entire Minnetonka youth program, but I have seen other programs where they do focus too much on winning at the youth level, and they risk losing kids that may be slow developers. If the high school coach wants to see a deep association and success at the top level, they should be stressing the need to play everyone at all levels in youth hockey. Who in the end cares about a youth PeeWee state championship (except the PeeWee coach and a few of the dads)?

There was a thread on here earlier asking where this Minnetonka HS team has come from all of a sudden. The comment was that they had not "won anything in the past". The fact is that they have been there all the time, they just have been patiently developing them for a year like this year that they are having at the HS level.

I think people have also noted on this forum the development these kids have enjoyed at EJ's Impact Hockey program. They are correct, this really is a great program.

[Goldfishdude]

I would be curious as to the thoughts if this Tonka team, with what, 6 D1 recruits, would be better than some D3 colleges in the area, or is the physical maturity of those kids too much for a team like Tonka to be able to compete??

[breakout]

I would be curious as to the thoughts if this Tonka team, with what, 6 D1 recruits, would be better than some D3 colleges in the area, or is the physical maturity of those kids too much for a team like Tonka to be able to compete??

The complexion of D3 hockey has changed over the last several years. Most D3 teams are heavy with kids that played Jr. and didn't get a D1 deal. That would mean your 16 thru 18 year olds would be playing against young men, many who have had Jr. experience and have competed in a faster and more physical environment with their playing time on the line every night.

[fanboy]

Tonka coaching team sounds like they have the right idea and the kids will benefit. It is good to see an article like the one referenced above. Kids should have positive role models who can instill confidence, leadership and teamwork. Kudos' to Tonka! I wish Duluth East, Mike Randolph, understood this principal. Everything's great until the kids reach varsity and then it's a train wreck....talk about working on few at the expense of the rest. That's just my opinion..

[russiawithlove]

I completely agree with you about the fact that coaches develop who they want to. Im sure that this happens to a lot of kids. One kid may be better at the beginning of the season but dont get playing time because the coach is working on developing another player. Meanwhile, over the coarse of the season, that weaker player gets better while the other player stays the same. Thus the coach accomplishes what he wants by developing the other player and basically disregarding the other player that was better at the beginning of the year. Also the player that is looking for playing time, if me messes up at all, he will never see the ice, while the developing player, if he messes up, will keep going out there. The player that was better at the beginning of the year has to get soooo much better than the player being developed to be able to get playing time.

[wingmaster]

I completely agree with you about the fact that coaches develop who they want to. Im sure that this happens to a lot of kids. One kid may be better at the beginning of the season but dont get playing time because the coach is working on developing another player. Meanwhile, over the coarse of the season, that weaker player gets better while the other player stays the same. Thus the coach accomplishes what he wants by developing the other player and basically disregarding the other player that was better at the beginning of the year. Also the player that is looking for playing time, if me messes up at all, he will never see the ice, while the developing player, if he messes up, will keep going out there. The player that was better at the beginning of the year has to get soooo much better than the player being developed to be able to get playing time.

Are you joking?

[mulefarm]

Let me get this straight. A coach doesn't play the best kids, instead he plays a kid that isn't as good, and hopes by the end of the season he is better. Or he is a good judge of talent and is able to put the best players on the ice so by the end of the season he has his best team come playoffs.

[gerryodrowski]

Tonka has success at the HS level and now everyone in Minnetonka youth hockey is taking a bow for being patient and de-emphasizing winning in order to promote long term development. What a load of bunk! This is nothing more than a case of talented players remaining together in high school. As impressive as this team has been this year, they haven't won anything yet.

[wingmaster]

[quote="gerryodrowski"]Tonka has success at the HS level and now everyone in Minnetonka youth hockey is taking a bow for being patient and de-emphasizing winning in order to promote long term development. What a load of bunk!

So there should be no credit given to their developement years? elementary my dear canuck.

[Gov78]

Tonka has success at the HS level and now everyone in Minnetonka youth hockey is taking a bow for being patient and de-emphasizing winning in order to promote long term development. What a load of bunk! This is nothing more than a case of talented players remaining together in high school. As impressive as this team has been this year, they haven't won anything yet.

Well they have won 20 games so far this season which is more than any other team in MN but that's not the point. Minnetonka has been able to keep more of their kids playing youth hockey as they age than nearly any other association in the state which was the point of the article as a consistant coaching approach and nearly equal ice time for teams at all levels keeps kids interested in playing.

Will it be a disapointment if Tonka doesn't win it all, yes probably, but more importantly is that the opportunities for the next group and the group after that are there. Just as important are the kids at the C level as it needs to be an experience that brings them back year after year.

No one is saying that Tonka has cornered the market on thier approach to youth hockey but the changes they've made the past few years with smaller teams, consistant coaching, equal playing time, and a focus on skills has made MYHA a better program than it was before these changes took place.

[Junior Samples]

With six D-1 recruits ... Minnetonka better be state champions. Anything less is a fraud.

[northwoods oldtimer]

I completely agree with you about the fact that coaches develop who they want to. Im sure that this happens to a lot of kids. One kid may be better at the beginning of the season but dont get playing time because the coach is working on developing another player. Meanwhile, over the coarse of the season, that weaker player gets better while the other player stays the same. Thus the coach accomplishes what he wants by developing the other player and basically disregarding the other player that was better at the beginning of the year. Also the player that is looking for playing time, if me messes up at all, he will never see the ice, while the developing player, if he messes up, will keep going out there. The player that was better at the beginning of the year has to get soooo much better than the player being developed to be able to get playing time.

I have seen a lot of that this winter at many levels

[Trout]

This is the same program that was getting slammed in the squirt A thread for not filling out a team with the full 15 players and not giving equal playing time. I am only putting this out there because of the comments about "win at all cost attitude".

The fact is if they were not trying to win and were trying to develop players they would have more kids playing on the A team even if they were at a slightly lower level and try to bring them along. This association is big enough to field a squirt A team of 15 skaters and 2 goalies! I know all the arguements about more puck time etc... but I am guessing they have B and C teams with 15 skaters and believe more kids should get the chance to experience the tougher competition and the best coaches the association has (which I a assuming are the A coaches!).

[gerryodrowski]

Tonka has success at the HS level and now everyone in Minnetonka youth hockey is taking a bow for being patient and de-emphasizing winning in order to promote long term development. What a load of bunk! This is nothing more than a case of talented players remaining together in high school. As impressive as this team has been this year, they haven't won anything yet.

Well they have won 20 games so far this season which is more than any other team in MN but that's not the point. Minnetonka has been able to keep more of their kids playing youth hockey as they age than nearly any other association in the state which was the point of the article as a consistant coaching approach and nearly equal ice time for teams at all levels keeps kids interested in playing.

Will it be a disapointment if Tonka doesn't win it all, yes probably, but more importantly is that the opportunities for the next group and the group after that are there. Just as important are the kids at the C level as it needs to be an experience that brings them back year after year.

No one is saying that Tonka has cornered the market on thier approach to youth hockey but the changes they've made the past few years with smaller teams, consistant coaching, equal playing time, and a focus on skills has made MYHA a better program than it was before these changes took place.

Do you have first-hand knowledge of these changes or are you repeating what you've read?

[PoniesDad45]

They are definitely doing something right in Minnetonka. Every single time we have run into a team of theirs, at any level they are rock solid. Those kids are taught to play hockey the right way, you can see it top to bottom.

Their U16 team is undefeated and looks better than any JV team and some Varsity teams I've seen this year. They are loaded with talent for a very good reason, tons of well coached kids.

[Gov78]

Tonka has success at the HS level and now everyone in Minnetonka youth hockey is taking a bow for being patient and de-emphasizing winning in order to promote long term development. What a load of bunk! This is nothing more than a case of talented players remaining together in high school. As impressive as this team has been this year, they haven't won anything yet.

Well they have won 20 games so far this season which is more than any other team in MN but that's not the point. Minnetonka has been able to keep more of their kids playing youth hockey as they age than nearly any other association in the state which was the point of the article as a consistant coaching approach and nearly equal ice time for teams at all levels keeps kids interested in playing.

Will it be a disapointment if Tonka doesn't win it all, yes probably, but more importantly is that the opportunities for the next group and the group after that are there. Just as important are the kids at the C level as it needs to be an experience that brings them back year after year.

No one is saying that Tonka has cornered the market on thier approach to youth hockey but the changes they've made the past few years with smaller teams, consistant coaching, equal playing time, and a focus on skills has made MYHA a better program than it was before these changes took place.

Do you have first-hand knowledge of these changes or are you repeating what you've read?

First hand as parent of C level player and former board member. My kid will never skate above B2 and will never play HS hockey but every year he wants to sign up and play.

[Gov78]

This is the same program that was getting slammed in the squirt A thread for not filling out a team with the full 15 players and not giving equal playing time. I am only putting this out there because of the comments about "win at all cost attitude".

The fact is if they were not trying to win and were trying to develop players they would have more kids playing on the A team even if they were at a slightly lower level and try to bring them along. This association is big enough to field a squirt A team of 15 skaters and 2 goalies! I know all the arguements about more puck time etc... but I am guessing they have B and C teams with 15 skaters and believe more kids should get the chance to experience the tougher competition and the best coaches the association has (which I a assuming are the A coaches!).

You'd guess wrong as for the most part unless the numbers just don't work every non-A team has 12-13 skaters. I can't speak to the SQ A topic and not having 15 as D6 makes every A team have 15 unless they can't support a full team B team because of numbers.

[blueblood]

Trout -

You didn't believe me on the squirt a topic about player numbers last month. Do you believe gov78?

Like I said before, what works for Tonka may not work in other associations.

[pineline]

This is the current situation in the youth program. It was not in play when the jrs. and srs. were playing in the youth association. I'm pretty sure that it also didn't come into play with the Soph's and Frosh either.

[sinbin]

I think that keeping the kids in the program is a major factor (one of several important ones). It helps when your program can keep its kids up through the HS level and not serve as a feeder program for the private schools, where they can pluck the cream of the crop (sorry for the mixed metaphor). I also think that the kids themselves should get a smidgen of credit for the hard work they put in when no one is watching.

In general, the more kids you can keep in the program when younger (developing a broad base), the higher you can build your pyramid. Look at the short-sightedness of youth basketball, where the tallest kid is cut in 5th grade because he has two left feet and can't dribble. Don't you want to develop him, too, so he transforms into a 6'7" stud (or at least servicable) in HS?

We all know that kids develop at different rates and that several Bantam C players will make HS varsity, so keep giving kids chances as long as they're deserved, hold them accountable for working hard, reward them for working hard and reap the benefits of your long-sighted vision. A little talent doesn't hurt, either.