AAA staying power

[dogeatdog1]

Since most AAA teams are done with tryouts or wrapping up their roster for the spring season I thought of a thread to dscuss if there are any AAA organizations that focus on Long term development of the same kids. It would be interesting to see if there is a program out there that picks a group of kids and trys to develop them rather than cutting the bottom 4-5 kids each year to try to improve. With all the talk about the 96 machine disbanding and in looking at the web sites from the Blades and Machine alumni it appears that the famed '88 class was trained by both these organizations. If we look at the 94 and 95 classes are there rosters of teams out there that look like they did when the kids were last year mites?

[observer]

I think long term development, with the same group of kids, is the goal of every local AAA organization.

Now comes reality.

The difference between a mite and a bantam player
Little, quick, athletic kids rule mite and squirt. Some grow and some don't.
Individual star as a mite but not a team player as a PW
dedication level of player
dedication level of family
coaching changes
families move
grass is greener syndrome where some parents are never happy with what they have. Always figure there's a better option. (Player movement is dangerous as your kid may be happy, having fun and developing but there's an invitation from another team or a new one forming and the parents move their child. Now he's not having fun, misses his friends, doesn't produce and clearly would have been better off staying with the original group)
Percieved, and real, superiority by some organizations over others
Number of hours
Which tournaments and number
practice to game ratio
number of players on team (Blades 95 roster shows 29 players, stupid)
game players vs. practice players
burn out
good practice coach
good game coach
play with friends

I've watched MN AAA from Mites through bantam and some teams have a similar core. There's always going to be some player movement. Some players fizzle and several rise to the top later. There were only a few teams and organizations when my son started and now there could be 30 teams at any one level so it's grown which is good.

The top high school players all worked on their game year around. Get your child involved with summer training, and a team, and they will leap over every kid that doesn't if they have the natural athleticism to do so.

[Yakunin]

Velocity Hockey formally the 92 Icemen and now has two very good squads with 96 & 99 Velocity teams is a great long term program. My son was a 92 Icemen for 4 years and it was the best development experience he ever had with that coaching staff.

[HockeyDad41]

I think long term development, with the same group of kids, is the goal of every local AAA organization.

Now comes reality.

The difference between a mite and a bantam player
Little, quick, athletic kids rule mite and squirt. Some grow and some don't.
Individual star as a mite but not a team player as a PW
dedication level of player
dedication level of family
coaching changes
families move
grass is greener syndrome where some parents are never happy with what they have. Always figure there's a better option. (Player movement is dangerous as your kid may be happy, having fun and developing but there's an invitation from another team or a new one forming and the parents move their child. Now he's not having fun, misses his friends, doesn't produce and clearly would have been better off staying with the original group)
Percieved, and real, superiority by some organizations over others
Number of hours
Which tournaments and number
practice to game ratio
number of players on team (Blades 95 roster shows 29 players, stupid)
game players vs. practice players
burn out
good practice coach
good game coach
play with friends

I've watched MN AAA from Mites through bantam and some teams have a similar core. There's always going to be some player movement. Some players fizzle and several rise to the top later. There were only a few teams and organizations when my son started and now there could be 30 teams at any one level so it's grown which is good.

The top high school players all worked on their game year around. Get your child involved with summer training, and a team, and they will leap over almost every kid that doesn't

Excellent analysis.

[DMom]

I have been against AAA training because of the effect on kids. I don't think it's fair to tell an 8 year old that if he works hard, he can make the NHL. He can't if his genetics won't have him grow over 5'9". Increasingly, NHL players have to be over 6' 2". Don Lucia was right about that. And yet, we, as parents, spend A LOT of money in the off-season, and, more importantly, Family time (vacation time, beautiful summer evenings, etc) at hockey rinks.

I have posted that at any given Pee Wee A game, the dominate player will NOT be a AAA player. However, the 96's I am aware of, who are playing Bantam A, have all played AAA, some of them since mites. I can't think of a 96 Bantam A who did not play AAA. That being said, we are not running our mite around to every program, looking for a tournament spot. He's ready to go this summer with a close by program with quality coaching, as a development player. He'll get the same coaching but we'll still get to go to the cabin and he'll get to play baseball without the stress the oldest has lived with. Will he be sad when the tournament jerseys are handed out? Yep, probably, but when we are sitting in the sun, enjoying tubing on the lake and spending quality time with his grandparents, we'll point out that he could be skating...I don't think we'll get a lot of argument. Will he be a first year Bantam A? probably not, will he be playing the same place as the oldest when he's 19? probably

[DMom]

I veered quite a bit off topic. I know that the 96 Blades of last year, had been together for many years, with some players leaving on their own. Whereas the Cyclone/Legacy had only five players make it through three seasons at the same birth year. Mr. McBain stuck to many of the original 96s for years.

[InigoMontoya]

I think long term development, with the same group of kids, is the goal of every local AAA organization.

I'm not sure that's true any more. The longer established programs seem to try to work that way, and several newer programs have patterned their organizations after that model, but it seems that many of the newer "programs" are really just groups of individual teams wearing the same jersey.

[InigoMontoya]

Increasingly, NHL players have to be over 6' 2".

There has been a lot published about how the rules enforcement in the NHL has changed that trend. Schroeder is 5'9". Gerbe was a Hoby Baker finalist and was listed at 5'6" (I read an article that he may have actually been that tall with his skates on).

Don Lucia was right about that.

I rarely find that to be the case.

I have posted that at any given Pee Wee A game, the dominate player will NOT be a AAA player.

I disagree with that as well. Especially the fringe communities that have a few kids that play AAA, but most in the association do not.

He's ready to go this summer with a close by program with quality coaching

Will he be a first year Bantam A? probably not

Depends on which program you are lucky enough to live close by.

[observer]

Bummer, sell the cabin.

Also, and it's been stated here several times, buyer beware. The AAA organizations can be money machines which is one of the reasons you're seeing fat rosters. 15 game players plus 15 practice players? I like the idea of a few practice players, so there are always at least 15 skaters in attendance, but kids do want to play games and will be sad if all their hard work doesn't include at least a couple of off season tourneys.

[dogeatdog1]

Increasingly, NHL players have to be over 6' 2".

There has been a lot published about how the rules enforcement in the NHL has changed that trend. Schroeder is 5'9". Gerbe was a Hoby Baker finalist and was listed at 5'6" (I read an article that he may have actually been that tall with his skates on).

Don Lucia was right about that.

I rarely find that to be the case.

I have posted that at any given Pee Wee A game, the dominate player will NOT be a AAA player.

I disagree with that as well. Especially the fringe communities that have a few kids that play AAA, but most in the association do not.

He's ready to go this summer with a close by program with quality coaching

Will he be a first year Bantam A? probably not

Depends on which program you are lucky enough to live close by.

I agree with all your points .. what is wrong with me. Just looked at the Dalas stars roster for this year ( did it cause they beat up on the wild the other night) They have 16 rostered players under 6"2 and many listed at 6'0'(we all know that eveyone adds inches when your not 6' especially HD41 ....(sorry for the shot)

looking at the posts above it appears that three years is considered a long time to be on a team which is sad. My oldest has played for 4 years with the team that we are currently on with very few kids leaving. My younger son just left the team that he was on for his entire Mite through Squirt years. Very few kids have left that team too.. He hopes to play well at a higher level and I hope that he sticks with the same team for years.

[popeye]

Very Interesting dialogue. The top AAA teams retain players - it is the only way to stay on top. You can't expect to start from scratch every year and still compete. Some will continue to bring in "ringers" which doesn't speak well of the quality of development offered. But, if you want to be a top player floating in a lake all summer isn't going to make it happen. And, some kids do make their dreams come true. I watch them on tv all the time.

[InigoMontoya]

I agree with all your points .. what is wrong with me.

A moment of clarity. Don't fret, most don't agree with me for long.

It seems that the programs that keep kids for a while also have siblings. I won't claim to know the causal relationship there: do parents sign up the younger ones, too, when the older one stays, or does the older one stay after the younger ones are on board. Either way, that's either good development throughout the entire program, or a good marketing scheme.

There is a 'con' involved with AAA teams or programs keeping all the same kids from mites on up: what happens to the kids that don't skate in the summer as a mite? It's tough to drag a nine year old to four different rinks over MEA weekend, wondering the whole time, "Did I wait too late?" Too late at nine; that's a tough one.

[sorno82]

The recipe for success is simple :
Hard Work
Passion
Great Coaching
Great Athlete
No major injury or illness.

You cannot plan your kids success since you cannot control all the elements. It is never too late-plenty of examples of kids who specialized later who were successful. Prior to puberty, be smart and let the kid drive his development with minor direction from the parent. After puberty, just support your kid.

My youngest will only play hockey in the offseason if the neighbor kids are with him, my oldest (PeeWee) has put off AAA until this year (though he did skate in camps in the offseason). He was "recruited" for a mid-level team and can't wait for it to start. It is a marathon and not a sprint.

[observer]

For most it also gets harder to get on a team as your player grows older. Established teams are only looking to change a couple of pieces. At the older ages there are tryouts with 30 skaters where only 1 or 2 are selected. It frustrates parents but hey, the team only needs 1 or 2 as they're in their 4th or 5th year. It also means if there are 8 decent AAA teams in the metro, at your childs age level, a lot of the top 100 kids are already on a team. At Squirts the top 100 doesn't mean much but at bantam the top 100 is pretty well defined.

[observer]

Ultimately, the coaching is everything.

Good organizer
Good communicater
Good assistant coaches
Innovative drill meister
Good game coach

AAA programs also have managers that help with organizing and communication.

[muckandgrind]

Playing AAA in the summer isn't a "must do"...but, conversely, if your kids want to play at the "A" level for their association, you cannot simply put the skates away for the whole summer and pull them out again for warm-ups. If you do, they'll get left behind by the kids that DO skate in the summer.

At the very least, kids need to get in some sort of skating, whether at a clinic, camp or get their ice some other way.

[drop the puck]

I agree with all your points .. what is wrong with me. Just looked at the Dalas stars roster for this year ( did it cause they beat up on the wild the other night) They have 16 rostered players under 6"2 and many listed at 6'0'(we all know that eveyone adds inches when your not 6' especially HD41 ....(sorry for the shot)

What is your point. The STARS are a not much of a factor in 2010.

[drop the puck]

Playing AAA in the summer isn't a "must do"...but, conversely, if your kids want to play at the "A" level for their association, you cannot simply put the skates away for the whole summer and pull them out again for warm-ups. If you do, they'll get left behind by the kids that DO skate in the summer.

At the very least, kids need to get in some sort of skating, whether at a clinic, camp or get their ice some other way.

You are correct.

[dogeatdog1]

What is your point. The STARS are a not much of a factor in 2010.

Just pulled a random roster from the NHL ...DMOM noted that you gots to be 6'2 or bigger to even have a shot.. besides I like stephane Robidas #3 Defense at about 5"10 190... hits like a Mac Truck.. check out the video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piqsmIAId6E

[DMom]

And there's a pretty neat graphic here: http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/maga ... y/timeline

that charts the results of this data in all four major professional sports.

NHL players have gone from an average of 5-foot-9 and 172 pounds in 1920 to 5-foot-11, 180 by 1955, 6-foot and 190 in 1980 and then, finally, up to the 6-foot-1, 205 pounds hockey players have averaged the last 15 years or so.

Here's a question to ponder: Just how big can the average NHLer get? Have we hit the limit?


source: fromtherink.com

[DMom]

I didn't really mean to head this thread off in the wrong direction, we're supposed to be talking about how many teams keep their roster from season to season. Although are you assuming that is a good thing? We are to assume that because a team has the same roster as the year before, it's because the kids are being developed and are good enough to stay? I know it says that the kids and parents must enjoy it, because they keep returning. My other child has played on the same team for four years and is going back again and they only lose one or two kids a year.

One kudo to the Blades, they post their rosters. For so many teams, it's top secret and no one knows until the first practice which kids are really going to be there.

[muckandgrind]

One kudo to the Blades, they post their rosters. For so many teams, it's top secret and no one knows until the first practice which kids are really going to be there.

The Icemen post their rosters as well.

[InigoMontoya]

A big reason some AAA teams don't post rosters is that some other AAA teams use those rosters as a cold calling list.

[InigoMontoya]

Here's a question to ponder: Just how big can the average NHLer get? Have we hit the limit?

have averaged the last 15 years or so.

I think you may answer your own question. I saw that, as well, and I believe all the growth they speak of is prior to the rule enforcement change. That said, I'd still hope my kid would be 6'2" rather than 5'8" - plenty of studies in the business world that show pay scales trend with height. With that said...you don't have to leave the backyard to see Clutterbuck lead the NHL in hits at 5'10" - you can't hit what you can't catch.

[Yakunin]

Velocity Hockey has there 96 and 99 team on there website as well.