Class A Rankings for 12-20-09

[HShockeywatcher]

After a week filled with many games between teams in the rankings with each other and teams ranked and various AA teams, the rankings this week and the next two will be very loose.

1. St Thomas Academy (4-1)
Despite what those who run the BCS will tell you, losing to a team better than you shouldn't make you move down. With a head to head win against, probably, the only other Class A team in their league, St Thomas controls their own destiny. Must do well at Schwan's with Breck also playing a good tournament.
-This week: off

2. Breck (4-1)
Three of their four wins this season against top Class A teams. Play a good Scwhan's Cup after Christmas. Despite head to head loss, good performance there with bad St Thomas performance can move them up.
-This week: off

3. Warroad (5-1)
Continuing to win is what the Warriors do. Home game against the Prowlers this week will do a lot for both the Class A standings but also 8A standings.
-This week: TRF (Tues, 7:30pm)

4. Thief River Falls (6-1)
Continue winning against a pretty good Bemidji team and an improving Int Falls team. How legit are they? We shall find out this week.
-This week: @Warroad (Tues, 7:30pm)

5. Mahtomedi (4-2)
Lost to undefeated Hill Murray by 1 goal. Will clash with two other good Class A teams in the Schwan's Silver Cup.
-This week: off

6. Virginia (6-2-1)
After two losses and a tie against good competition, they have won their last four, three against good competition. This week will be a great test for both they and their opponent.
-This week: @Hermantown (Tues, 7:30pm)

7. Hermantown (4-1)
Haven't lost much, undefeated against Class A teams, but haven't played much competition yet. Their game this week and three after Christmas before 2010 will either move them up a few notches or down.
-This week: Virginia (Tues, 7:30pm)

8. Sartell (4-1-1)
No real impressive wins, but only loss in first game to good Class A opponent. Play team who upset the team their one loss is to this week. Play good Class A teams in Bronze Cup.
-This week: @Rogers (Tues, 7pm)

9. Blake (5-2)
No terrible losses, both to good competition, no impressive wins. Play in Silver Cup. Need wins in Schwan Cup with only three good opponents rest of season.
-This week: off

10. St Cloud Cathedral (3-1)
Yes, upsets happen, but not usually by 3 goals to teams under .500; will move back up if others lose and they continue to win in their good schedule.
-This week: @Sauk Rapids (Tues, 7pm)

11. Alexandria (3-1-1)
Interesting upset to Wilmar and only 5 games under their belt so far. Off this week with three competitive games in Roseau after Christmas.
-This week: off

12. Wilmar (5-1)
Decent Class A schedule thus far, only one loss.
-This week: off

13. Duluth Denfeld (3-3)
Started off 3-0 and have since lost to three good teams. Hopefully for them the winning picks up this week.
-This week: Proctor (Mon, 7:30pm), @Superior (Tues, 7:30pm)

14. South St Paul (3-3)
All losses to good teams, but still losses. Expect them to be much higher by end of season.
-This week: St Paul Como Park (Tues, 7:30pm)

15. Duluth Marshall (4-3)
Next 8 games should all be competitive. Expect them to move up as well as season moves on.
-This week: off

16. International Falls (4-3)
Close losses to bad teams. Many teams wanting to get on rankings; Broncos lose a few more and they will fall off.
-This week: @Bemidji (Tues, 7:30pm)

17. Holy Family Catholic (6-1)
Really not much of a schedule. Off this week then play in Bronze Cup; either prove they are an up and coming team or have no business being ranked.
-This week: off

18. Spring Lake Park (8-0)
Haven't played anyone good yet. Could easily be 14-0 when they play Benilde on Jan 9. Watch them closely as they are in section 4A, probably end up with 4th seed, unless they can beat Mahtomedi on the 21st game of the year.
This week: @Simley (Tues, 7:30pm)

19. Duluth Central (5-0)
Have not beating anyone tough. Play Cloquet this week.
-This week: CEC (Tues, 7:30pm)

20. Orono (3-2)
Tough call for me between the Spartans and Providence. Neither have proven much, while Orono has close loss to Warroad.
-This week: @St Michael (Tues, 7pm)

WOW, this week was tough. There is no science for anyone. Teams in the low teens are probably comparable to the top teams. It is nice to see new faces and teams playing well. The Holiday season games will help show where teams should be. Expect not much to change next week with a lot of changes the following week.

Comments/suggestions/complaints; all welcome. Thanks!

[4AAhockeystud]

I like most of your rankings you got here you always have good ones.

But one question. Wheres faribault i saw they were 10th in class A in lets play hockey this week and you didnt have them.

[HShockeywatcher]

LPH had them at #10 when they were (5-0); they are now 6-2. The teams #10-30 in Class A are all very jumbled at the moment. Fairbault could travel to Roseau and prove themselves, or show they don't deserve any thought.

Top 3 are really only teams set in my mind. Beyond that, the next teams are tough. There are teams like Hibbing, who I didn't rank, who are 3-5 with 3 quality wins then played 5 solid teams, three AA and Warroad.

Thanks for the compliment.

[MNHockey75]

1. St. Thomas Academy 4-1
2. Breck 4-1
3. Hermantown 4-1
4. Warroad 5-1
5. Mahtomedi 4-2
6. Thief River Falls 6-1
7. Virginia 6-2-1
8. St. Cloud Cathedral 4-2
9. Duluth Denfeld 3-3
10. South St. Paul 3-3
11. Duluth Marshall 4-3
12. Blake 5-2
13. Sartell 4-1-1
14. Mound-Westonka 4-3
15. Rogers 2-3
16. Faribault 6-2
17. Hibbing 3-5
18. International Falls 4-3
19. Willmar 5-1
20. Alexandria 3-1-1

This early in the season you have to rank according to head to head matchups. Reason being, a lot of these teams just haven't played good competition. After the Christmas break you can let go of the Hibbing win over IFalls, the Mound wins over Rogers, Faribault, and Hibbing, the Willmar win over Alex and look at the whole picture a little more. The TRF/Warroad and Virginia/Hermantown games this week will say a lot.

[karl(east)]

WOW, this week was tough.

Similar story in AA.

[starmvp]

We will get a very good idea of the rankings after the holidays.

[PowerForward25]

We will get a very good idea of the rankings after the holidays.

That's why we all love holiday tournaments. Sort out the contenders and pretenders.

[HShockeywatcher]

Apparently Duluth Marshall wasn't totally upset at home; they won as expected. Don't think the win moves them up at all this week.

[hockeysnipes]

We will get a very good idea of the rankings after the holidays.

agreed.

[defense]

Obviously TRF is pretty "legit" if you have them at #4.

[HShockeywatcher]

defense;
1. They are where they are as a result of having 6 wins with their schedule. There are a couple teams I personally think are better teams, but have losses with the teams they've played, I can't justify putting them higher yet.
2. By "legit" I mean possible contender. If Warroad hands it to them, they probably are not, they will then drop a few notches after the holidays.

I wish there was a way Breck or STA would end up playing Warroad or TRF.

[warriors41]

defense;
1. They are where they are as a result of having 6 wins with their schedule. There are a couple teams I personally think are better teams, but have losses with the teams they've played, I can't justify putting them higher yet.
2. By "legit" I mean possible contender. If Warroad hands it to them, they probably are not, they will then drop a few notches after the holidays.

I wish there was a way Breck or STA would end up playing Warroad or TRF.

Breck or STA playing Warroad would not be pretty. This is coming from a Warroad fan. They are not as deep as last year and their defense isn't as good. The only way they could beat Breck or STA is in a shootout. They will go as far as Nelson and Hebel can take them.

On the other side, the year is young. Hopefully, the younger defensemen will develop in time for sections. Also, there are some who were swtiched to defense and are still learning the position. They have time to get better but I don't see them competing with Breck or STA at state. It's a two horse race.

[wtbearlk1111]

How about Fairbault only loss to a Ranked AA team Tartan?

[HShockeywatcher]

Not sure who's ranked Tartan, but Fairbault also lost to Mound-Westonka.

Question:
Considering STA apparently dominated Breck in their first game of the season, which was an away game and Breck's third game of the season and luckily came away with a win; if STA beats all the Class A teams they play this year, is there anything they can do to drop below #1 in Class A?

[warriors41]

Not sure who's ranked Tartan, but Fairbault also lost to Mound-Westonka.

Question:
Considering STA apparently dominated Breck in their first game of the season, which was an away game and Breck's third game of the season and luckily came away with a win; if STA beats all the Class A teams they play this year, is there anything they can do to drop below #1 in Class A?

I don't think the coaches polls would have them below #1. But if Breck plays well down the road like they are capable and beats some of the better AA teams there will be a debate. And if Breck beats a AA team that STA loses to (I don't know their schedules so I'm not sure if this is possible) than Breck could leap frog them.

The thing I hear about the Breck-STA game is that if you look at the numbers it is clear that STA dominated Breck. However, in last years championship game against Warroad, Breck was outshot by like 15 shots I think. They also only won about half as many faceoffs as Warroad but they still beat them handily. They are a team that doesn't have to outshoot teams. That said, I'm not sure how close the play was between the two teams.

[RBKhockey77]

No respect for spring lake park? Its fair to say that they haven't played fantastic teams but despite losing their top two scorers from last year they are averaging 7 goals a game. I believe mound westonka hasn't broken 2 goals a game yet this year?

[dabears344]

Didn't Orono lose to Breck 13- 1. I know Breck is really good but a true top 20 team shouldn't have that kind of a loss.

[bluedevils]

No respect for spring lake park? Its fair to say that they haven't played fantastic teams but despite losing their top two scorers from last year they are averaging 7 goals a game. I believe mound westonka hasn't broken 2 goals a game yet this year?

They don't have to score more than 2 with a solid goalie. They did score 3 goals against Virginia... Virginia out played them, but couldn't put the puck in the net.

[northwoods oldtimer]

but I don't see them competing with Breck or STA at state. It's a two horse race.

Warriors need to put Tommy Astrup on the Varsity blueline. Add Hermantown to the list as well who can compete. However the cup cake schedule might just cost them in March.

[mnhockeyfan77]

No respect for spring lake park? Its fair to say that they haven't played fantastic teams but despite losing their top two scorers from last year they are averaging 7 goals a game. I believe mound westonka hasn't broken 2 goals a game yet this year?

They don't have to score more than 2 with a solid goalie. They did score 3 goals against Virginia... Virginia out played them, but couldn't put the puck in the net.

ive been to a couple slp games, they look good but havent played anymore than a bantam team, como? chisago? and st bernards were all jokes even the other teams, compete with bsm and ill say you guys deserve to be in top 10, dont even have to beat bsm, make it a 3-1 4-2 game or something with the shots not being 50-10 and you guys will get hype. you have all around depth but nowhere near the spark you had last year

[Tavern]

Well Warroad beat TRF last night, 2-1. Warroad seemed to do almost everything they could in the 2nd period to lose the game and at times in the 3rd. If Warroad wants a shot at another state title they need to start playing hockey and quit taking stupid penalties. The first line can play with anyone in the state, but the D really need to step up. The 2nd and 3rd lines are doing what they need to do so far.

Also, the Orono/Warroad game was not close. Warroad won 5-2 but the game was much more lopsided than that. Combine that with their loss to Breck and i don't think they deserve a top 20 bid.

[fivehole628]

After a week filled with many games between teams in the rankings with each other and teams ranked and various AA teams, the rankings this week and the next two will be very loose.

1. St Thomas Academy (4-1)
Despite what those who run the BCS will tell you, losing to a team better than you shouldn't make you move down. With a head to head win against, probably, the only other Class A team in their league, St Thomas controls their own destiny. Must do well at Schwan's with Breck also playing a good tournament.
-This week: off

2. Breck (4-1)
Three of their four wins this season against top Class A teams. Play a good Scwhan's Cup after Christmas. Despite head to head loss, good performance there with bad St Thomas performance can move them up.
-This week: off

3. Warroad (5-1)
Continuing to win is what the Warriors do. Home game against the Prowlers this week will do a lot for both the Class A standings but also 8A standings.
-This week: TRF (Tues, 7:30pm)

4. Thief River Falls (6-1)
Continue winning against a pretty good Bemidji team and an improving Int Falls team. How legit are they? We shall find out this week.
-This week: @Warroad (Tues, 7:30pm)

5. Mahtomedi (4-2)
Lost to undefeated Hill Murray by 1 goal. Will clash with two other good Class A teams in the Schwan's Silver Cup.
-This week: off

6. Virginia (6-2-1)
After two losses and a tie against good competition, they have won their last four, three against good competition. This week will be a great test for both they and their opponent.
-This week: @Hermantown (Tues, 7:30pm)

7. Hermantown (4-1)
Haven't lost much, undefeated against Class A teams, but haven't played much competition yet. Their game this week and three after Christmas before 2010 will either move them up a few notches or down.
-This week: Virginia (Tues, 7:30pm)

8. Sartell (4-1-1)
No real impressive wins, but only loss in first game to good Class A opponent. Play team who upset the team their one loss is to this week. Play good Class A teams in Bronze Cup.
-This week: @Rogers (Tues, 7pm)

9. Blake (5-2)
No terrible losses, both to good competition, no impressive wins. Play in Silver Cup. Need wins in Schwan Cup with only three good opponents rest of season.
-This week: off

10. St Cloud Cathedral (3-1)
Yes, upsets happen, but not usually by 3 goals to teams under .500; will move back up if others lose and they continue to win in their good schedule.
-This week: @Sauk Rapids (Tues, 7pm)

11. Alexandria (3-1-1)
Interesting upset to Wilmar and only 5 games under their belt so far. Off this week with three competitive games in Roseau after Christmas.
-This week: off

12. Wilmar (5-1)
Decent Class A schedule thus far, only one loss.
-This week: off

13. Duluth Denfeld (3-3)
Started off 3-0 and have since lost to three good teams. Hopefully for them the winning picks up this week.
-This week: Proctor (Mon, 7:30pm), @Superior (Tues, 7:30pm)

14. South St Paul (3-3)
All losses to good teams, but still losses. Expect them to be much higher by end of season.
-This week: St Paul Como Park (Tues, 7:30pm)

15. Duluth Marshall (4-3)
Next 8 games should all be competitive. Expect them to move up as well as season moves on.
-This week: off

16. International Falls (4-3)
Close losses to bad teams. Many teams wanting to get on rankings; Broncos lose a few more and they will fall off.
-This week: @Bemidji (Tues, 7:30pm)

17. Holy Family Catholic (6-1)
Really not much of a schedule. Off this week then play in Bronze Cup; either prove they are an up and coming team or have no business being ranked.
-This week: off

18. Spring Lake Park (8-0)
Haven't played anyone good yet. Could easily be 14-0 when they play Benilde on Jan 9. Watch them closely as they are in section 4A, probably end up with 4th seed, unless they can beat Mahtomedi on the 21st game of the year.
This week: @Simley (Tues, 7:30pm)

19. Duluth Central (5-0)
Have not beating anyone tough. Play Cloquet this week.
-This week: CEC (Tues, 7:30pm)

20. Orono (3-2)
Tough call for me between the Spartans and Providence. Neither have proven much, while Orono has close loss to Warroad.
-This week: @St Michael (Tues, 7pm)

WOW, this week was tough. There is no science for anyone. Teams in the low teens are probably comparable to the top teams. It is nice to see new faces and teams playing well. The Holiday season games will help show where teams should be. Expect not much to change next week with a lot of changes the following week.

Comments/suggestions/complaints; all welcome. Thanks!

Orono?? Didn't they lose 13-1 to Breck?? I'm sorry but you don't deserve to be in the top 20 if you lose that bad to ANY team... And why is Willmar #12?

[HShockeywatcher]

Orono's two losses are to #3 Warroad by three goals and to #2 Breck away. Yes, they got killed. Mahtomedi (#5 remind you) lost to Breck at home by 6; opps they must be too high. No, Breck is just that good.

Additionally, one big thing to keep in mind is that most times when better teams play worse teams, after the result of the game is known, both teams start doing things with their lineups and play to be able to try new things out and give other players a shot. The score after the 1st was 6-0. If Breck had ran their first/second line the whole game like they did the first period, the score could have easily been MUCH worse. I don't know the specifics, but Breck probably used a passing rule of some sort, both teams probably game their 3rd/4th liners a good amount of ice time, etc.
75% of Holy Angels' conference games they could probably win by a much bigger margin than they do. But it's because of these things they don't.

Wilmar is where they are because they're 5-1, giving the team ahead of them their only loss of the season, and doing well right now. Right now the rankings are based on a max of 8 games per team and most teams have played 1 or 2 decent teams. So one good win will get you noticed. The next two rankings will weed teams, like Central, out as they lose to teams they shouldn't if they want to be ranked.

Happy Holidays to all

[defense]

Orono's two losses are to #3 Warroad by three goals and to #2 Breck away. Yes, they got killed. Mahtomedi (#5 remind you) lost to Breck at home by 6; opps they must be too high. No, Breck is just that good.

Additionally, one big thing to keep in mind is that most times when better teams play worse teams, after the result of the game is known, both teams start doing things with their lineups and play to be able to try new things out and give other players a shot. The score after the 1st was 6-0. If Breck had ran their first/second line the whole game like they did the first period, the score could have easily been MUCH worse. I don't know the specifics, but Breck probably used a passing rule of some sort, both teams probably game their 3rd/4th liners a good amount of ice time, etc.
75% of Holy Angels' conference games they could probably win by a much bigger margin than they do. But it's because of these things they don't.

Wilmar is where they are because they're 5-1, giving the team ahead of them their only loss of the season, and doing well right now. Right now the rankings are based on a max of 8 games per team and most teams have played 1 or 2 decent teams. So one good win will get you noticed. The next two rankings will weed teams, like Central, out as they lose to teams they shouldn't if they want to be ranked.

Happy Holidays to all

So you mean that a 1-5 team who had a win against Willmar would get them in the top 20. I mean Willmar is in the top 20 so you have to consider them a solid team........

[HShockeywatcher]

If a 1-5 team had beaten Wilmar, with Wilmar's schedule, Wilmar would not be as high as they are. The team that beat Wilmar, however, was 2-1 after the game (is 3-2) now, beat them by 2 goals and was an away game for Wilmar. Wilmar plays Sartel twice, Alex again, Tech twice, Brainerd and Detroit Lakes each once. We will see over the next month where they should be. Right now they are probably the top team in 6A, or at least the team to beat.

Hope I answered your question.