Another Bantam Coaching Change

Fire and Ice · Post by **Fire and Ice** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:05 pm

Please understand that everyone of these coaches is trying to make the right decision for the success of there teams, that is why they are the best teams. I can name many programs that have numbers and all the items people whine about and still can't get it done.

If your kid is battling on the bubble it may cost him to show up at the clinic if he isnt doing very well.

You perceive this as an extended tryout for the benefit of the kids who can participate, but you should be looking at the situation that maybe your kid cuts himself during the clinic.

look at the complaint from both sides. You would need to impress someone all the time. It appears to most looking inside that some board member have bubble kids...is that true?

puckboy · Post by **puckboy** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:14 pm

Fire- you are correct. These non parent coaches put in lots of time and are truly dedicated. Kudos to all of them.

puckfan · Post by **puckfan** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:14 pm

F&I

seriously, the clinics are a "pre-tryout" skate and thus means before tryouts if I understand the English language.

I think these are designed for getting back on your skates BEFORE tryouts start.

Shouldn't everyone in the tryout process have the EXACT same opportunity to strut their stuff in association hockey? Is the association there for the select age group/team or whatever or is it there to provide a equal opportunity for the entire association?

Hey that's whats great about summer hockey, no board to deal with, do as you see fit.

gretzguy · Post by **gretzguy** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:19 pm

puckfan wrote:
Jake would pick his team properly regardless of running clinics or not. Remember no one wants to lose so you wouldn't intentionally take the wrong player...would you?
If you have bubble kids and the coach sees them for say 10 hours of tryouts and others for 10 hours of clinics and 10 hours of tryouts, do they get an even look?

A high end coach like Jake has done his homework. You can be sure he went to lots of Bantam B1 and Peewee A & B1 games last year. He knows who is coming. And if they are multisport athletes and can't do the camp, all the better.

The kids that are hurt are those that have never had the opportunity of having the benefit of being on the ice being taught by an A coach. For some reason OMG's board decided they never should. That's unfortunate. I commend Jake for feeling so strongly to take the time. It's in no way as much fun coaching the lower end than a well oiled Bantam A team. Good for Jake for being willing to take the time and obviously feel strongly about doing it. Would have been easy to just not care.

And for the couple families where the money is tight, I heard there was a grant from a large retailer available based on need.

Im_all_that · Post by **Im_all_that** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:47 pm

Chuck Norris Fan wrote:
puckboy wrote:fire and ice- im not taking a stand one way or another but why would OMGHA black ball him. It would be great to hear your reasoning or facts behind your statement. Lets get it out there
I think fire and ice is saying that OMGHA bantam A's will be black balled similar to what happen to Stillwater a few years ago. Weather that is right or wrong, is yet to be determined.

Aready happened. At last report OMG has now been uninvited from the Maroon and Gold scrimmage league which had been put together last year for higher end Bantam A teams. Another bad result of the board's decission.

Chuck Norris Fan · Post by **Chuck Norris Fan** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:48 pm

I am goin got say i have to agree with Fire here... there is no way a returning Non parent Bantam A coach doesn't know what is coming down the pipe to him. He knows what the A peewees had last year, and the B1's etc etc.. he knows the kids regardless of preseason camp or not.
2nd those coaches are going to pick the kids that give them the best chance to win... plain and simple they want to win and the best players give them that ability.

3rd - there is more here than the associations side of the story. I doubt that the association asked nicely for him to not do the preseason clinic and then he said I quit.

MaxSnatch · Post by **MaxSnatch** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:06 pm

puckboy wrote:Max- you can disagree with the boards decision- but didnt' he quit?

Nooooo - I disagree with the Boards decision to not allow all Bantam level players the opportunity to be on the ice with an A level coach in this "Camp".

Everyone gets their undies in a bundy trying to figure out if this is a tryout. Let the players learn from a great coach. Heck - most A Bantam coaches could write their A team on a piece of paper once registrations are done.....and most parents for that matter.

getontheline · Post by **getontheline** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:19 pm

I highly doubt jake likes losing. and with only a few returners it would turn out to be a tougher season for the team (not saying by any means they would be bad). Its' alot to go to practice everynight for a coach and it would be alot to work in the younger kids. I know the whole not being allowed in tryout clinic had alot to do with it but it could have been a lot harder year and one that might have not been as good as the previous one so it would be easy to get out of all the politics and not coach for this year.
Best of luck to the team. Hope they can get a good coach!!

Im_all_that · Post by **Im_all_that** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:31 pm

getontheline wrote:I highly doubt jake likes losing. and with only a few returners it would turn out to be a tougher season for the team (not saying by any means they would be bad). Its' alot to go to practice everynight for a coach and it would be alot to work in the younger kids. ...it could have been a lot harder year and one that might have not been as good as the previous one so it would be easy to get out of all the politics and not coach for this year.

Oh my, you figured it out. He tricked the board into changing the rules for coach participation in these camps, got them to draw a line in the sand, SOMEHOW got them to include the D3 coach in chief in the emergency meeting, cleverly got him to agree with the coach position, and THEN walked away so he wouldn't have to deal with a weak team this year. Genius!!!!!!!

Got to go, got aliens delivering JFK's killers to the grassy knoll in my back yard this aft.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:46 pm

Why did OMG specify that NON-parent coaches were excluded?

JoltDelivered · Post by **JoltDelivered** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:46 pm

First let me say this is one of my favorite times of year. It's usually the weeks leading up to assocaition tryouts that brings out the goofballs and whack jobs. It's always entertaining to watch. Everybody jockeying for position, trying to cook the system from all different angles just enough to tip it in their favor. Although it's a rare occasion that we see a large association hand down a sweeping change like this which actually causes people to quit and in such a public manner. For those of us not directly involved it just heightens the entertainment value that much more.

With that said, can we be clear about something? With the way year-round hockey is in this state, tryouts are 365 days a year. Some choose to participate all 365 and some don't, for whatever reason. You can't get way from it nowadays. Heck in the association where my kids play the non-parent head A coaches at each level (squirt - bantam) run a 3 month summer skating program, a 2 week fall camp warm-up and and a 3 week tryout process. I wonder what the OMG executive board would think about that?

And no matter how many rule changes you make about who can be where and when, you will never, ever stop a coach from watching a future prospect. Coaches are constantly asking about players, watching them in summer games, watching them in the winter when they play at lower levels and watching them in clinics and tryouts. And make no bones about it, every player is at the mercy of that head coach when it comes to cut time. There is very little a board member can do to influence the process in that meeting room whether it be through policy change or something else. But it's nice to see there are still boards out there chasing the dream of completely fair tryouts.

So if you choose to hold your child out of most, some or all of the non-tryout activities then you have made a clear decison to restrict visibility and exposure to your child, the player. I'm ok with that and sometimes hold my own kids out of non tryout activities for various reasons. But there are consequneces to doing that and it sounds like the OMG executive board has tried to eliminate those consequences. I doubt they have and in reality all they probably did is cause a coach to quit.

Although remember, not all change is bad. This coaching change could work out for the best for OMG and the coach who quit.

Bronc · Post by **Bronc** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:09 pm

" in reality all they probably did is cause a coach to quit."

Not wanting your players to have maximum exposure to your top coach in the association(?) Most parents and players are trying to figure out how to get more exposure (hire the coaches to run clinics, be on summer teams they coach, etc).

Sounds like the board (or should I say executive board) had an ax to grind with a quality coach. Then you throw in a few parents (a reason they only picked on the non parent coaches?) living vicariously thru junior and when they run into a strong coach with plenty of options, enough is enough. Good for him not putting up with it anymore.

Unfortunate to see a large association act so small.

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:56 pm

If you are against the actions of an association board, then threaten to quit if not changed back to the way you like it be prepared to have your actions called.
There is not enough information from both sides to offer a true opinion. There was a part of their minutes that they had contacted the High school coaches to run the camp. Would also have been better if you keep one group of coaches participating you keep all from parent and non parent coaches from participating.

If you play poker be prepared to be called.

northwoods oldtimer · Post by **northwoods oldtimer** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:59 pm

osseohockey wrote:This is crazy. I have been surfing this forum for years and this is the first topic that got me riled up enough to sign in and post a reply. My kid played for Jake back when he was the Osseo Bantam A coach before they merged with MG. We didn't have much talent or big numbers like MG, but Jake got the most out of those kids and made us respectable. Jake was the best thing that ever happened to my son, both on and off the ice.

To think that they ran such a great teacher out of our Assn for such a trivial matter is beyond comprehension. This reminds me of the Stillwater thing a few years ago. Good luck scheduling any games against top quality competition.

I feel bad for the kids. Why do parents always have to spoil it for the kids?

Osseohockey you are indeed correct when Fleming was just coaching the Osseo kids they were always tough despite not having a whole lot of depth. I saw them up in Grand Rapids a couple of years at Bantam level and came away very impressed with the job the coach was doing. These knuckleheads lost a very good coaching asset.

Fire and Ice · Post by **Fire and Ice** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:10 pm

Give the Maple Grove board credit...they made a decision, even if it was a bad one

wannagototherink · Post by **wannagototherink** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:26 pm

Fire and Ice wrote:Give the Maple Grove board credit...they made a decision, even if it was a bad one

One mans trash is another mans treasure...Sounds like Elk River just signed themselves up for an elite bantam A coach.

I would look for the Elks to become pretty formidable in the near future.

Good for you Jake!!!!

mghockey18 · Post by **mghockey18** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:06 pm

Whoever picks up Flemming is going to see a change in their player developement from bantams to high school

RUKidding · Post by **RUKidding** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:23 am

There will be two board members that will go down in the history of this association. Fantastic job !

Congrats Elk River ...

mghockey18 · Post by **mghockey18** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:55 am

Flemming to take over as ER Varsity once Sars retires?

D10RoXyourSoX · Post by **D10RoXyourSoX** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:12 am

Unfortunate, very unfortunate for the kids and program. Jake Fleming is a good guy that stood by his beliefs and the board the same.

The slight mis-step on the board may be regarding the language IMO. Please correct me if I am wrong but the rule states "Non-Parent Coaches" so parent coached teams can have the coach on the ice for pre-tryout camps. To me this is a slippery slope.

Good luck JF & OMG, tough pill to swallow.

Reality Check · Post by **Reality Check** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:21 am

mghockey18 wrote:Flemming to take over as ER Varsity once Sars retires?

Retires? You mean dies?

LesHabs · Post by **LesHabs** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:51 am

I wasn't aware that there was an opening at ER at this late stage. Did this just magically happen given Jake was now available

BlackTape · Post by **BlackTape** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:55 am

LesHabs wrote:I wasn't aware that there was an opening at ER at this late stage. Did this just magically happen given Jake was now available

They must have eh?

Im_all_that · Post by **Im_all_that** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:18 pm

LesHabs wrote:I wasn't aware that there was an opening at ER at this late stage. Did this just magically happen given Jake was now available

There was a parent in place with the understanding if a solid non-parent came along. SCORE !!!

Now instead of the Maroon and Gold league and high end tournaments that Jake had set up, OMG Bantam As get to go to New Ulm in early December. You two guys did a heck of a job messing it up for the kids. How has the rest of your board not held you accountable for your rogue actions?!?

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:49 pm

Be careful about degrading anything New Ulm Bantam for fear of awakening the OreoSlapper.