Mpls dissolves Partnership with St Louis Park

CoachCleats · Post by **CoachCleats** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:23 am

After only a few years of wedded bliss Mpls and St Louis Park are headed their separate ways.

Mpls has found a more attractive partner in Washburn? - seems odd given the partnership with Park was producing relatively competitive teams.

Mpls goes back to District 1 and Park is left to fend for themselves in District 3 - sounds like a bad deal for both.

Anyway, thats what I heard - anyone know why Mpls is leaving?

puckboy · Post by **puckboy** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:29 am

im not in the know but that would surprise me. Why wouldnt they just add washburn to the mix?

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:04 am

I've heard rumors that Washburn wants to start up their HS Hockey program again, maybe this is a way to get that moving by combining Washburn and SW players at the youth level first.

CoachCleats · Post by **CoachCleats** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:02 pm

That makes sense.

I had forgotten about Mpls High School Hockey! If that is their motivation then I applaud Mpls. I never understood why kids from the same City played for two different Associations.

Too bad for District 3 and really bad for the Orioles - Can they make it on their own

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:04 pm

CoachCleats wrote:That makes sense.

I had forgotten about Mpls High School Hockey! If that is their motivation then I applaud Mpls. I never understood why kids from the same City played for two different Associations.

Too bad for District 3 and really bad for the Orioles - Can they make it on their own

Is this official or is it rumor? Has there been any formal announcement?

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:16 pm

Didn't Washburn and Richfield just combine?

observer · Post by **observer** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:17 pm

Hey coach,

I think you got some bad information. The Minneapolis Southwest, St. Louis Park, co-op has been great for both shrinking associations and more importantly, the kids. All they're doing, from what I heard, is adding the Washburn and Richfield kids for the A and B1 level teams. Great move for all. Most everyone in St. Louis Park understands what a fabulous relationship this has been and how lucky their kids have been to experience the success they wouldn't have otherwise. Skating at the correct level. There's no way they would neglect all the smiling faces of their kids and go back to their 0-22 ways. They couldn't field A teams at either PeeWee or Bantam in the fall. And, their A level kids would not have A teams to skate on. Why would they choose to leave such a perfect situation? Ask any parent of a player that was on a Mpls-Park Storm A or B1 team if they just didn't complete their best year of youth hockey ever. Or, better yet, ask the player. Not going to happen.

mngopherfan · Post by **mngopherfan** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:23 pm

observer wrote:Hey coach,

I think you got some bad information. The Minneapolis Southwest, St. Louis Park, co-op has been great for both shrinking associations and more importantly, the kids. All they're doing, from what I heard, is adding the Washburn and Richfield kids for the A and B1 level teams. Great move for all. Most everyone in St. Louis Park understands what a fabulous relationship this has been and how lucky their kids have been to experience the success they wouldn't have otherwise. Skating at the correct level. There's no way they would neglect all the smiling faces of their kids and go back to their 0-22 ways. They couldn't field A teams at either PeeWee or Bantam in the fall. And, their A level kids would not have A teams to skate on. Why would they choose to leave such a perfect situation? Ask any parent of a player that was on a Mpls-Park Storm A or B1 team if they just didn't complete their best year of youth hockey ever. Or, better yet, ask the player. Not going to happen.

I heard hopkins name somewhere in this discussion too. Maybe Slp/Hopkins and MPLS teams play togetehr...?

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:29 pm

observer wrote:Hey coach,

I think you got some bad information. The Minneapolis Southwest, St. Louis Park, co-op has been great for both shrinking associations and more importantly, the kids. All they're doing, from what I heard, is adding the Washburn and Richfield kids for the A and B1 level teams. Great move for all. Most everyone in St. Louis Park understands what a fabulous relationship this has been and how lucky their kids have been to experience the success they wouldn't have otherwise. Skating at the correct level. There's no way they would neglect all the smiling faces of their kids and go back to their 0-22 ways. They couldn't field A teams at either PeeWee or Bantam in the fall. And, their A level kids would not have A teams to skate on. Why would they choose to leave such a perfect situation? Ask any parent of a player that was on a Mpls-Park Storm A or B1 team if they just didn't complete their best year of youth hockey ever. Or, better yet, ask the player. Not going to happen.

I've heard the same thing. Parents and players were generally pleased with how things are going. You'll never get EVERYONE to agree that all was peaches and cream, but from the outside, it appears that it was a success...on the ice, anyways..

Who else? · Post by **Who else?** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:32 pm

Think about it...

Minneapolis Park has very average teams at all levels. They are right around .500 in their games against District 3 opponents, but ironically these games don't count against them in their path to the post season.

They coast through their regular season and tournament in District 1. Depending on Regional pairings, they usually have an easy path to State (follow their journey this year).

This is the speculation part:
If Southwest wasn't giving SLP the talent or 'intangibles' they were looking for, it doesn't surprise me that they (SLP) are looking for a new partnership, but trying to stay in District 1.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:43 pm

Who else? wrote:Think about it...

Minneapolis Park has very average teams at all levels. They are right around .500 in their games against District 3 opponents, but ironically these games don't count against them in their path to the post season.

They coast through their regular season and tournament in District 1. Depending on Regional pairings, they usually have an easy path to State (follow their journey this year).

This is the speculation part:
If Southwest wasn't giving SLP the talent or 'intangibles' they were looking for, it doesn't surprise me that they (SLP) are looking for a new partnership, but trying to stay in District 1.

Your forgetting their wins against Burnsville, Rochester Red, Woodbury, Roseville, and Stillwater. Compared to where they were before as individual associations, I would say they improved tremendously in a short period by pooling their numbers together.

SWPrez · Post by **SWPrez** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:45 pm

Wow,

This is news to me and virtually all SWHA and SLPHA families. Coach Cleats, would be helpful if you could expand on who has stated SWHA is pulling the plug on the MPLS Park Storm?

I can assure you that I have attended all of the Southwest Hockey Association board meetings (not to mention presided over) and Southwest pulling out of the Storm has never been discussed. We love our co-op with Saint Louis Park.

Youth hockey is always full of great rumors. Perhaps you can expand on where this came from???

Who else? · Post by **Who else?** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:54 pm

Muck,
Exactly my point... they have gotten much stronger in a short period of time.

Has the recipe for success been:
a) a miraculous change in their development
b) Co-op talent
c) Playing in a very weak district.
d) both b and c.

I only pointed out the D3 games because D3 teams must list the W-L-T in their standings while the results don't impact Mpls Pk in District 1.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:55 pm

Thanks, SWPres, I guess we could chalk this one up to one bad rumour....

CoachCleats · Post by **CoachCleats** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:42 pm

SWPrez

Thanks for setting the Record straight

If SLPHA does not to agree to the expansion of the Coop SW will partner with whom in ’09-10?

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:45 pm

CoachCleats wrote:SWPrez

Thanks for setting the Record straight

If SLPHA does not to agree to the expansion of the Coop SW will partner with whom in ’09-10?

Who is proposing an expansion to the co-op? Is there an official proposal that has been put forward?

Chuck Norris Fan · Post by **Chuck Norris Fan** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:47 pm

observer wrote:Hey coach,

The Minneapolis Southwest, St. Louis Park, co-op has been great for both shrinking associations and more importantly, the kids. All they're doing, from what I heard, is adding the Washburn and Richfield kids for the A and B1 level teams. Great move for all.

Oh ya perfect and lets add Hopkins too.... What a crock of $*%@.... then lets have Princeton, Sauk Rapids, St. Francis, Chisago Lakes, Pine City, Mora and Spring Lake Park join for A teams. They don't have enough kids to field an A team but together they might.

If this is the route we are going we might as well all finally admit it... we are ready for real AAA hockey, not this fake crap we see in the spring and summer. But actual sponser based AAA teams all winter long. Then maybe we can send some MN teams to nationals besides Shattuck (mostly non MN kids) and show some people what MN hockey is all about.

You think that small associations are frustrated by the Large ones having so many kids, well I can imagine the big boys are getting frustrated by the lack of boundaries some teams are playing with....

for that matter I heard Champlain and Blaine were going to combine to try and compete with the Rochester and St. Clouds of the world..... this is all Bull Honkey!!!!!!!!!!!

hokeyhockeyguy · Post by **hokeyhockeyguy** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:30 pm

The Mpls Park Co-op has been a tremendous success from my knowledge. Their Bantam A team beat top 10 talent all year and lost a close game to Duluth East in the State Tourney (won't go into the cause of that... aka the penalty shot award)... Their PeeWee A team lost in OT to Woodbury in the State Semi's and then lost 6-4 with an empty netter against Edina in the Third Place teams. Both teams finished 3rd in D3 behind Wayzata and OMG. The PeeWee and Bantam B1 teams lost in OT in State... the PeeWees twice I believe. The program has given Mpls SW and SLP's top talent with a place to play as opposed to needing to get to Edina (which is not very far away) and the Fire etc... It has also allowed the lower levels B2's and C teams an opportunity to be competitive at their levels. Not sure how this is a bad thing.

Washburn and Richfield will help Mpls Park keep up its success and help keep the program competitive and its elite players from jumping ship. It's a no brainer for the kids and hockey development... not sure why the animosity is there... the numbers at these programs do not approach EP or Wayzata or what not based on the co-ops...

In case people haven't noticed... Mpls and St. Paul hockey teams have vanished by the boatload the last decade... its sad but you can't be surprised that hockey players want to play on competitive teams.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:50 pm

hokeyhockeyguy wrote:The Mpls Park Co-op has been a tremendous success from my knowledge. Their Bantam A team beat top 10 talent all year and lost a close game to Duluth East in the State Tourney (won't go into the cause of that... aka the penalty shot award)... Their PeeWee A team lost in OT to Woodbury in the State Semi's and then lost 6-4 with an empty netter against Edina in the Third Place teams. Both teams finished 3rd in D3 behind Wayzata and OMG. The PeeWee and Bantam B1 teams lost in OT in State... the PeeWees twice I believe. The program has given Mpls SW and SLP's top talent with a place to play as opposed to needing to get to Edina (which is not very far away) and the Fire etc... It has also allowed the lower levels B2's and C teams an opportunity to be competitive at their levels. Not sure how this is a bad thing.

Washburn and Richfield will help Mpls Park keep up its success and help keep the program competitive and its elite players from jumping ship. It's a no brainer for the kids and hockey development... not sure why the animosity is there... the numbers at these programs do not approach EP or Wayzata or what not based on the co-ops...

In case people haven't noticed... Mpls and St. Paul hockey teams have vanished by the boatload the last decade... its sad but you can't be surprised that hockey players want to play on competitive teams.

So, is there a proposal to merge Richfield and Washburn with Mpls Park, or is this all just rumor?

observer · Post by **observer** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:03 pm

CNF,

Osseo merged with Maple Grove and now has 7 bantam teams and 10 PeeWee teams. That's the competition.

North Metro is a merger of 4 or 5 different communities.

Mpls-Park wants to develop players capable of playing varsity on the high school teams within their borders.

Who else? · Post by **Who else?** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:45 pm

Hockeyguy -
That's the only reason I posted. To say their teams made it to state, competed in state, or lost in state means very little when the road to get there was not very challenging.
I personally don't care if Mpls Pk expands... good for them.
To say they have been anything other than 'above average' the last few years is laughable.
YES they did make it to state! They should have if you look at their schedule. They were also a combined 1-8 at state.
Everyone had their moments against top 10 teams and everyone in D3 finished behind Wayzata and OMG... what's your point?

hokeyhockeyguy · Post by **hokeyhockeyguy** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:51 pm

Who else...

You said they are average at all levels... if you think what they did this year was "average" then there's no reason to expend any further energy thinking about your points.

I'll cede your point that their road to State wasn't as challenging as the regionals... but to imply that Mpls Park teams wouldn't have been to state if they had been in the other regions... well they're performance at the State Tourney shows that is far from certain... though in your world you probably just know it to be true eh?

I did notice how you said "average" the past few years... a slight change to your earlier post where you left out the "past few years part"... I'll take that as a recognition that they were not "average" this year. Thanks for that.

Who else? · Post by **Who else?** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:57 pm

hokey -
So we agree that any co-op or average team can win district 1. Regionals you can look over again at all levels.
So, understanding that it would not be very challenging for most average teams to get to state (taking the same path as Mpls Pk), an association can't do much worse than 1-8 in 9 games.
You can call them as close as you want.

icedad · Post by **icedad** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:07 pm

observer wrote:Osseo merged with Maple Grove and now has 7 bantam teams and 10 PeeWee teams. That's the competition.

For the record, Osseo did not merge with Maple Grove. It has always been Osseo/Maple Grove Hockey Association. Our Mites, Supermites, Girls, and Junior Gold have always skated together because of numbers. This is the same reason Squirts, Peewees, and Bantams skated together this year. But again, we've always been one association.

hokeyhockeyguy · Post by **hokeyhockeyguy** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:03 pm

[quote="Who else?"]hokey -
So we agree that any co-op or average team can win district 1. Regionals you can look over again at all levels.
So, understanding that it would not be very challenging for most average teams to get to state (taking the same path as Mpls Pk), an association can't do much worse than 1-8 in 9 games.
You can call them as close as you want.[/quote]

Any co-op team can win district 1? How am I supposed to know that? I already told you I agree that its a very weak district... obviously not as weak as Districts 4 and 5 though since D1 teams walked out of regionals in high numbers... don't bite my head off though "who else"... I already told you I cede your point about the regionals being easy this year for Mpls Park....

Your stubborn hold on the "1-8" State record obviously shows that Mpls Park did not dominate at State this year. But the record woefully distorts the fact that all 4 teams were deserved of being there. Which team, "Who else," did not belong with the competition there? Please enlighten us with some specifics rather than generalities.

My point remains poignant! Separate, Mpls SW and SLP would have been average... together, they put together teams that competed with the best teams in the state... and in many cases beat the best teams. That's it!

Co-ops do not = bad by definition.

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