The Real 2009 MN Hockey State Champion? A vs. AA

[thinkb4engaging]

Think about this..........

Little Falls, Breck, Warroad and St Cloud (maybe more) would certainly win games in the AA Tourney. Maybe they could even win the AA tourney!

Breck beat Duluth East and Cretin DH in regular season. Warroad lost by a goal to Moorhead and also beat Roseau. St. Thomas did not even make the A tourney this year. They beat AA Cretin DH, Hill Murray and Moorhead this season.

Warroad, Little Falls, Breck and St. Cloud are ALL ranked (MY Hockey) higher that two(2) semi final teams in the AA Tourney (Moorhead and Cretin DH). In addition, they are ALL ranked higher than four(4) teams which are participating in the AA Tournament this year.

http://www.midwestyouthhockey.com/view_ ... &v=701&g=3

So who will the real state champion be this year????

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

If those schools want to play AA, have them move up. Winning a regular season game is a little different than winning in the post season.

[HockeyMN1]

Think about this..........

Little Falls, Breck, Warroad and St Cloud (maybe more) would certainly win games in the AA Tourney. Maybe they could even win the AA tourney!

Breck beat Duluth East and Cretin DH in regular season. Warroad lost by a goal to Moorhead and also beat Roseau. St. Thomas did not even make the A tourney this year. They beat AA Cretin DH, Hill Murray and Moorhead this season.

Warroad, Little Falls, Breck and St. Cloud are ALL ranked (MY Hockey) higher that two(2) semi final teams in the AA Tourney (Moorhead and Cretin DH). In addition, they are ALL ranked higher than four(4) teams which are participating in the AA Tournament this year.

http://www.midwestyouthhockey.com/view_ ... &v=701&g=3

So who will the real state champion be this year????

I completly disagree. AA teams are much deeper than A teams. If they think they can win, move up, but I don't think any of them would even have made the tourney this year, unless they were in Century's section, which they wouldn't be.

[Reidy09]

Breck is the only team that could give a class AA team a run for their money in the state tourney...let alone the state championship.

[defense]

Think about this..........

Little Falls, Breck, Warroad and St Cloud (maybe more) would certainly win games in the AA Tourney. Maybe they could even win the AA tourney!

Breck beat Duluth East and Cretin DH in regular season. Warroad lost by a goal to Moorhead and also beat Roseau. St. Thomas did not even make the A tourney this year. They beat AA Cretin DH, Hill Murray and Moorhead this season.

Warroad, Little Falls, Breck and St. Cloud are ALL ranked (MY Hockey) higher that two(2) semi final teams in the AA Tourney (Moorhead and Cretin DH). In addition, they are ALL ranked higher than four(4) teams which are participating in the AA Tournament this year.

http://www.midwestyouthhockey.com/view_ ... &v=701&g=3

So who will the real state champion be this year????

I completly disagree. AA teams are much deeper than A teams. If they think they can win, move up, but I don't think any of them would even have made the tourney this year, unless they were in Century's section, which they wouldn't be.

I'm sure you only meant the huge schools competing in AA...right???
Certainly not Roseau, Grand Rapids, .........
Obviously not ALL schools in AA are DEEP.....

[hipcheck]

Do we all consider the bantam and peewee champs to be true champs? Of course, since there are no divisions in the youth level. All teams compete for one title and there seems to be no complaining.

You would think there would be no descretion if the highschool league would run the high school tourney as they do in the youth program.

[starmvp]

Yes, Breck would do fine in Class AA, but what happens when all of their Juniors this year graduate next year? How good will they be then?

[deacon]

Do we all consider the bantam and peewee champs to be true champs? Of course, since there are no divisions in the youth level. All teams compete for one title and there seems to be no complaining.

You would think there would be no descretion if the highschool league would run the high school tourney as they do in the youth program.

ummm yes there would be. All the small schools would be very unhappy.

[HShockeywatcher]

Again, the "hockey's different" talk. The MSHSL runs the classes in hockey the same way it runs the classes in all other team sports.

As I've asked in other threads; would anyone complain if the opt up requirement was only 1 year for class A schools?

[masterB]

Yes, Breck would do fine in Class AA, but what happens when all of their Juniors this year graduate next year? How good will they be then?

when all their juniors graduate? simple, their current freshman, sophomores, incoming highschool players will step up. just like any other team. what will Edina do when their star seniors leave this year? how good will they be next year? i'm gonna guess pretty good. this is the same issue every program has, don't see it being unique to Breck. that being said, i think Breck is the only A team in the tourney, along w/ St. Thomas Academy (not in tourney) that would be able to compete in the AA tournament. too much depth overall on the top AA teams.

[starmvp]

Yes, Breck would do fine in Class AA, but what happens when all of their Juniors this year graduate next year? How good will they be then?

when all their juniors graduate? simple, their current freshman, sophomores, incoming highschool players will step up. just like any other team. what will Edina do when their star seniors leave this year? how good will they be next year? i'm gonna guess pretty good. this is the same issue every program has, don't see it being unique to Breck. that being said, i think Breck is the only A team in the tourney, along w/ St. Thomas Academy (not in tourney) that would be able to compete in the AA tournament. too much depth overall on the top AA teams.

I don't see enough great freshmen and sophomores after watching today.

[hipcheck]

Must be a lot of small schools unhappy in the youth level. Such is life.

[masterB]

Yes, Breck would do fine in Class AA, but what happens when all of their Juniors this year graduate next year? How good will they be then?

when all their juniors graduate? simple, their current freshman, sophomores, incoming highschool players will step up. just like any other team. what will Edina do when their star seniors leave this year? how good will they be next year? i'm gonna guess pretty good. this is the same issue every program has, don't see it being unique to Breck. that being said, i think Breck is the only A team in the tourney, along w/ St. Thomas Academy (not in tourney) that would be able to compete in the AA tournament. too much depth overall on the top AA teams.

I don't see enough great freshmen and sophomores after watching today.

starmvp, you don't get it. Breck is a private school, every year their are additional new transfers and additions that come to higshchool there. that is the way its always been. there are many, many kids in the metro area that would like to attend highschool there, for both the academic and athletic opportunities. the same things about depth were said after Blake Wheeler and the rest of his class graduated in '04. they are right back in the championship game.

[defense]

Must be a lot of small schools unhappy in the youth level. Such is life.

ahhh, ta heck with it....they should go back to single class tournement.

Youth hockey works out just fine..especially now since they let 3
teams into regions. They need to go back to one class, eight sections, but, 16 subsections. Then hold the section tourney at bigger arenas...National Hockey Center, DECC, Mariucci, State Fair rink, Mankato, Little Ralph, heck, even Grand Forks' Ralph(they play football playoffs in the Alerus and FargoDome........ This way the section tourney will be more exciting and it should create some excitement within a program ..... such as what is being done with having two state tournements....... And obviously, ONE state tournement in St. Paul every March would be awesome.....

[starmvp]

when all their juniors graduate? simple, their current freshman, sophomores, incoming highschool players will step up. just like any other team. what will Edina do when their star seniors leave this year? how good will they be next year? i'm gonna guess pretty good. this is the same issue every program has, don't see it being unique to Breck. that being said, i think Breck is the only A team in the tourney, along w/ St. Thomas Academy (not in tourney) that would be able to compete in the AA tournament. too much depth overall on the top AA teams.

I don't see enough great freshmen and sophomores after watching today.

starmvp, you don't get it. Breck is a private school, every year their are additional new transfers and additions that come to higshchool there. that is the way its always been. there are many, many kids in the metro area that would like to attend highschool there, for both the academic and athletic opportunities. the same things about depth were said after Blake Wheeler and the rest of his class graduated in '04. they are right back in the championship game.

I am not talking about six years from now I am just saying they will have a gap after the Juniors this year graduate next year. Everyone I have talked to say the same thing, they have some good freshmen but not enough, no great sophomores, and I haven't heard much about younger classes.

[masterB]

I am not talking about six years from now I am just saying they will have a gap after the Juniors this year graduate next year. Everyone I have talked to say the same thing, they have some good freshmen but not enough, no great sophomores, and I haven't heard much about younger classes.[/quote]


you'll never hear about their younger classes. they don't play youth hockey. just like you don't hear about holy angels' "younger classes". you won't have to worry about every 6 years. in the 5 year period from their last championship in '04 they have been competitive at or near the top of the A rankings. you have no idea what your talking about. obviously you won't hear much about the freshman because they are either on JV or on the 4th line. yes, they have a JV team and alot of these freshman, along with numerous new highschool entrants will fill in holes on the varsity. nearly everyone on the Breck team came to breck during highschool as either incoming freshman or sophomores. guess what, this will not stop. in two years, there will be great players on Brecks team who are not currently enrolled there. fact.

[starmvp]

Hopefully you are right, I love watching Orono, Mound, and Blake in their section. Hopefully competition continues stays strong between those teams.

[Gopher Blog]

There is a distinct difference in depth and speed in the Class A and Class AA games. It was like night and day from Wednesday to Thursday. The quality of play in AA was much better.

A team like Little Frauds would get trounced by the Class AA schools in the tourney (other than maybe Rochester).

[grindiangrad-80]

I agree with you most of the time Gopherblog, but this time .......
Lotta single a teams have pumped out the best players this country has ever seen.
I,m not sayin, Im just sayin.

[mghockey18]

After watching both A and AA tonight, there is a huge difference in pace. The AA games were MUCH faster, especially the EP Blaine game.

[masterB]

After watching both A and AA tonight, there is a huge difference in pace. The AA games were MUCH faster, especially the EP Blaine game.

Breck beat both Duluth East and CDH this year. I don't think it was a lack of pace that accomplished that feat.

[freakforhockey]

The way I would put it, is that the best A teams are better than all but the very best AA programs. Teams like Breck and St. Thomas get in trouble when they start playing Edina, Jefferson, Eden Prairie, Centennial, and Holy Angels. Unless it's a very off year for any of these teams, St. Thomas and Breck will lose to them every time. They just are too deep.

That is why St. Thomas and Breck should not opt up and they shouldn't be in the Schwan's Gold Division either.

[masterB]

The way I would put it, is that the best A teams are better than all but the very best AA programs. Teams like Breck and St. Thomas get in trouble when they start playing Edina, Jefferson, Eden Prairie, Centennial, and Holy Angels. Unless it's a very off year for any of these teams, St. Thomas and Breck will lose to them every time. They just are too deep.

That is why St. Thomas and Breck should not opt up and they shouldn't be in the Schwan's Gold Division either.

your argument makes no sense. obviously, EVERY team in the state, regardless of class would have trouble with Edina, Jefferson, EP and HA unless its a very off year for any of these teams. whats the point of this? so Hopkins, Mtka, Wayzata, Chaska, Eagan, Richfield, etc, etc would all have trouble with them. the fact of the matter is, Breck and STA have beaten nearly half the teams representing AA in the state tourney this year. that in my book would qualify them to be able to compete with AA teams in terms of talent and depth. unless a win doesn't mean anything these days. so you are saying, unless Breck and STA were better than Edina and EP they shouldn't even consider stepping up to compete in AA. well in that case, Hopkins, Chaska, Bloomington Kennedy, since they will never be able to compete with Edina should probably just step down from AA competition and play their own little house league.

[Cobber]

Maybe the frozen four champion should play the division III champion or the bantam A state champion should play the bantam B state champion then we would find out the true champions.

[publicschoolpride]

How about this...

Same exact sections, 16 team tournament.

Seed the top 8 regardless of what class the section is. I.E. a powerhouse team from an A section could be seeded above the Section 1AA rep.

This gives us the chance for exciting upsets in the first round. Most likely the bigger schools are going to win a lot of these games, but then the A teams still are battling it out in the consolation bracket maybe with a few weaker AA teams that lost. I think if I were a fan/coach/player of a A team I'd rather win the consolation championship of a 16 team field with all the best teams than a A state championship so the consolation bracket would actually be watched (televised!).

You also don't have to worry about the logistical nightmare of A teams opting up and down because everything would remain the same (after probably sending the current opted up teams down).

Can A egos take this type of system? I think it's worth it to have a shot at a 'real' state championship.