Mahtomedi Zephyrs(19-6-2) @ St Thomas Cadets(21-4-2) 3-6-09

[HShockeywatcher]

"As if a win would have motivated St. Thomas to make the jump to AA where they actually do belong."

It's funny. The opting up comments don't really make sense to begin with. Many, many people who are respected by many on this board have posted about it. Many others have discussed with me in PMs how they would like to see them in AA but at the same time don't think they "need" to be there. Even after they lose to a public school, it's another excuse.

What's even worse is now the loser of the section final is getting more attention than the winner. Sure, it's cool for me to see St Thomas go to state in sports. But they lost. I've congratulated Mahtomedi and I'm moved on...to the state tournament. The attention should be on Mahtomedi, all the upsets they made to get there and how well they could do next week.

Good luck Mahtomedi. This will be a great rivalry for at least the next two years.

[HShockeywatcher]

"it is more like nobody likes a winner when they are bought, stolen, or otherwise put together in a manner that most see as being not exactly straight up"

Since this thread has turned into what every (most) thread containing St Thomas (some that don't) turn into, I pose one question;
How is a private school, any private school, supposed to get students?

If the answer you give isn't "recruiting," you live in a fantasy world.

[shins]

I think a lot of the arguments about this stem from the idea of why did they split the state into two classes.... I believe class A is about giving schools with a smaller base the chance to compete at state (just like in every other sport).

The numbers for private schools are definitely small and put them in the class A range, but in a way it is comparing apples to oranges. If you look at the caliber of kid (athletically and academically) they are going to be your "high flyers", mainly due to parental support.

Take a look at some of the public schools with similar enrollments.... what % of those kids in those schools are involved in extracurriculars?? I know that my school has around 30%. I would assume that most private schools are more in the 80-90% range. You have fewer kids (or equal numbers), but those kids you have are high end kids who are involved.

[wbmd]

http://mbhsh.stats.pointstreak.com/boxs ... eid=944237

[oldmansundays123]

The better team lost. Just a simple case of kids being kids. Any team can beat any other on any given night, especially with a hot goalie. Upset's have been happening since the beginning of time. 7 out of 10 times STA wins. The Z's don't have near the talent that STA does. The goalie played well for Maht., but overall they had no business winning. Congrats to the Z's none the less.
This year's tourney took a turn for the worst as far as i'm concerned. I for one want to see the best talent and the most talented teams compete. I could care less if there Private or not. Alot of jealosy amounst the posters regarding Private schools. That's obvious. Nobody likes a winner.

And some people like to win at all costs.. even if it means playing down

They're not playing down, they're playing where they are assigned to play. This is a fact.

What about Roseau, are they playing where they are assigned to play? players should play the best competition possible instead of staying down just to win championships

[GopherPuck15]

Mahtomedi goalie needs to be on his A game or it is over for the Zephs.

Hint: stay a little closer to your net and do not throw break-out passes to the Cadet forwards.

I'd say he was.:p

[DotaDangler]

And some people like to win at all costs.. even if it means playing down

They're not playing down, they're playing where they are assigned to play. This is a fact.

What about Roseau, are they playing where they are assigned to play? players should play the best competition possible instead of staying down just to win championships

I don't think a Roseau STA comparison really works since they are polar opposites. People just need to quit whining about it. People say class A doesnt even matter and its a JV tourney, then they complain about STA being trophy chasers in it?

[captaincrunch]

Way to go zephyrs! its great to see a different team from the classic suburban conference going to state besides HM and STA! and good to see the boys from district 2 playing in the state tournament! good luck

[deacon]

And some people like to win at all costs.. even if it means playing down

They're not playing down, they're playing where they are assigned to play. This is a fact.

What about Roseau, are they playing where they are assigned to play? players should play the best competition possible instead of staying down just to win championships

No, they're not. They are playing up, that is an option that they exercised. It's not like STA was assigned to Class AA and then moved to Class A because they were struggling and not being competitive. And since what happened a couple days ago, it seems like Class A is the best competition right now for STA and where they belong. The comparison you made is terrible.

[HockeyMN1]

Nice job Mahtomedi, always nice to see STA lose. The only negative is that now the Vanelli boys will have even more justification for staying down in Class A.

As if a win would have motivated St. Thomas to make the jump to AA where they actually do belong.

MSHSL should force EVERY private to be in AA. No matter the size, if you are private and have players from all over, you should be forced to play in AA.

[wbmd]

Nice job Mahtomedi, always nice to see STA lose. The only negative is that now the Vanelli boys will have even more justification for staying down in Class A.

As if a win would have motivated St. Thomas to make the jump to AA where they actually do belong.

MSHSL should force EVERY private to be in AA. No matter the size, if you are private and have players from all over, you should be forced to play in AA.

Agreed.

[nipeshow18]

As much as I hate private schools, it is not exactly fair for all to have to play AA. Some schools are more appealing, and some kids go there because their parents are alumni, or another family member is an alum and have had positive things to say about it. There are so many underlying variables as to why kids choose private schools that it is not right to say every hockey player goes there to just play hockey.

With that said, there have been years (like last year) where STA being in AA would have made for an even better state tournament if they got there, but not every year do they field a team capable of competing in AA. For now, it is best for them to be in class A. Take it for what its worth, I am a public school grad that loves to see public schools succeed over a private school, but I am able to see both sides of the argument.

[HShockeywatcher]

How bout this:
MSHSL should force EVERY school, no matter the size, if you have players from all over, to be in AA.

[HShockeywatcher]

Would you public school supporters be fine if the opt up requirement were only 1 year instead of 2?

I would still disagree with opting up in principal, but if this were the case, I'm guessing the AA tourney would get that much better every year.

[johnnyquest]

It isn't about programs opting up to AA if they have players from "all over" on their team. There are plenty of AA teams that struggle year in and year out - why should these schools have to compete against programs that are comprised of players from multiple youth associations?

The "amalgamated" (I had to look that word up) teams, and any team with one or more players from outside their school district, should compete exclusively amongst themselves. They are permitted to follow a different set of guidelines than the public schools are (whose players all reside within the district).

It isn't really a public school / private school issue as much as it is a "our players all come from within these borders" and "your players come from anywhere and everywhere" issue.

[HShockeywatcher]

johnnyquest,

you aren't really naive enough to believe that all the students in public schools reside within the boundaries of their school's district, are you?

[johnnyquest]

hshw,

read the post again, specifically the last sentence in the 2nd paragraph

[HShockeywatcher]

My apologies, I read the sentence as it was written, not as you meant to write it; "They are permitted to follow a different set of guidelines than the public schools whose players all reside within the district."

Even written as you meant, there is still open enrollment which any schools are allowed to take advantage of...

[johnnyquest]

hshw,
my bad - poor use of the (. . . . )

[Mistah Hockey]

hahaha congrats zephs, nobody likes STA at state and nobody likes them in A...so again congrats zephs, ill be cheerin for ya at state.

[titanzdman]

21 goals between these two teams in their two meetings this year. 8-5 at St Thomas and 4-4 in Stillwater. As a St Thomas fan I can tell you this is the one section opponent St Thomas should most prefer not play.

Not a good night for sta. They played a little flat imo. Isaacson seemed kinda flat in this game. He seemed tired. He seemed kinda tired all year long. He and his teamates just didn't seem hungry. AJReid played hard. Mahtomedi goalie Wohlers played really well while altrichter seemed to have trouble controlling the puck. Of the 2 gopher boyz marshall was the better of the two that night. Idk maybe isaacson is injured or something. The zeffs sure played hard. Titanz need to learn to play that way in sections lol. Good luck zeffs

[titanzdman]

21 goals between these two teams in their two meetings this year. 8-5 at St Thomas and 4-4 in Stillwater. As a St Thomas fan I can tell you this is the one section opponent St Thomas should most prefer not play.

Not a good night for sta. They played a little flat imo. Isaacson seemed kinda flat in this game. He seemed tired. He seemed kinda tired all year long. He and his teamates just didn't seem hungry. AJReid played hard. Mahtomedi goalie Wohlers played really well while altrichter seemed to have trouble controlling the puck. Of the 2 gopher boyz marshall was the better of the two that night. Idk maybe isaacson is injured or something. The zeffs sure played hard. Titanz need to learn to play that way in sections lol. Good luck zeffs

[adamp1914]

You have to be kidding me...

"wah wah wah STA stays class A so they can win they should be AA wah wah"

Then they lose... And people are still trying to argue this? Jeez... get over it. There's absolutely no reason at all for them to be AA. They've been good for like what, 4 our of the last 6 years and that's it? So what? That's not enough proven dominance to move up.

"wah but they recruit from all over"

Which competitive school doesn't? and actually, most of the kids that go to St. Thomas or Cretin get fed to those schools through the Highland youth programs.

God.. If Mahtomedi pulls some more upsets and wins state, then next year they win again, people are going to start crying about them too. You idiots need to realize something. Kids graduate. 4 years of being extremely competitive doesn't mean that a team will continue to dominate a class indefinitely. It's not like they are always going to have better players than other schools.

[DotaDangler]

You have to be kidding me...

"wah wah wah STA stays class A so they can win they should be AA wah wah"

Then they lose... And people are still trying to argue this? Jeez... get over it. There's absolutely no reason at all for them to be AA. They've been good for like what, 4 our of the last 6 years and that's it? So what? That's not enough proven dominance to move up.

"wah but they recruit from all over"

Which competitive school doesn't? and actually, most of the kids that go to St. Thomas or Cretin get fed to those schools through the Highland youth programs.

God.. If Mahtomedi pulls some more upsets and wins state, then next year they win again, people are going to start crying about them too. You idiots need to realize something. Kids graduate. 4 years of being extremely competitive doesn't mean that a team will continue to dominate a class indefinitely. It's not like they are always going to have better players than other schools.

Amen

[deacon]

You have to be kidding me...

"wah wah wah STA stays class A so they can win they should be AA wah wah"

Then they lose... And people are still trying to argue this? Jeez... get over it. There's absolutely no reason at all for them to be AA. They've been good for like what, 4 our of the last 6 years and that's it? So what? That's not enough proven dominance to move up.

"wah but they recruit from all over"

Which competitive school doesn't? and actually, most of the kids that go to St. Thomas or Cretin get fed to those schools through the Highland youth programs.

God.. If Mahtomedi pulls some more upsets and wins state, then next year they win again, people are going to start crying about them too. You idiots need to realize something. Kids graduate. 4 years of being extremely competitive doesn't mean that a team will continue to dominate a class indefinitely. It's not like they are always going to have better players than other schools.

This man speaks the truth.