Another Way to Look at Peewee A teams Dec 25

[DMom]

Not fair D&C. His information is really good if you can get around the his distaste for a few mega programs from the SW suburbs.

There's more to life than just the top, but when you are near the top it is easy to ignore what happens across much of the state. Even so, ignoring those mega programs is akin to covering NBA basketball in the 1980s and avoiding Boston and Los Angeles.

Let's not lose focus of what's important here. How're those Eden Prairie moms looking this year?

The beauty of Fred's post is that he even knows what is going on for PeeWee teams no one else knows about. Our squirt team played and beat the second Edina team this year, and those parents were so clueless regarding who they were playing. Cluelessness can be forgiven, but the complete an utter lack of curiosity about any program that isn't one of the big three, is ridiculous. The same was true about playing, and beating, the 97 Blades. They stand around in shocked horror because they have just lost to 'no-names'. Probably the most fun I have ever had at youth sporting events.

The hockey world already knows more they we need to know about the teams in Eden Prairie, Edina and Wayzata. We all know the names of the superstars. We've saw their pictures in Let's Play Hockey. Quit whining because Fred gives equal time to other programs. If he gave attention to the big three, he'd be no different than LPH.

you had posten on the "other" about quitting AAA hockey... if you have to post about a 96' cyclone team beating a 97' team..then "yes" I would.

The post was not about beating them, take it that way if you want, it was about the way those parents responded. If you are heading into a game against kids who are a year older, you might set your expectations a little lower. It may have been only one or two bad apples, but that's all it takes to create an impression, which I believe was the point of my post. Thanks for the input.

[elliott70]

Wayzata school district, the boundaries of the Wayzata youth hockey program encompass much more than the City of Wayzata's population.

[iwearmysunglassesatnight]

[quote="southernhockey1"][quote="frederick61"]O-townClown:
You asked me why I referenced the Apple Valley game. I answered with what I saw on the ice, a smaller Edina team struggling when challenged physically. Would you rather I ignore what I saw? I won’t. It is my opinion. But it is not all as one sided as you claim.

However, I am more critical about Edina, Wayzata, and Eden Prairie because these large programs will not field two peewee A teams. To field under Minnesota Hockey rules (as I understand them) two peewee A teams means taking the top 30 of a 120 or more kids and dividing them equally between the two teams.

I am critical because large associations who want to field only one peewee A team give no credit to the kids in their programs. They believe that unless they have a single A team with the top kids on it, the association is somewhat less for it. I believe just the opposite, the association is better for doing it, the district they play in is better for them doing it and Minnesota Hockey is better overall.

But it goes beyond that. These large associations have arrogance about themselves because they believe they are the best. To prove it to themselves, they play each other over and over again in each other’s tourney. They invite other teams they think are good, but the other teams are scheduled in such a way that they become cannon fodder to feed the associations collective ego.

What large associations have to understand that kids are kids. They like to play hockey and they are growing. They are developing and their association's role should be to aid in their development.

A kids play improves as they grow, sometime weeks to weeks. But if association choses to cast the a small percentage of their kids in the highest level of excellence, they can lose the good players who develop in a manner outside their perceived level of excellence.

In a way, looking at Blaine, Elk River, Holy Angels, Anoka, Centennial, Cretin, Roseau and Hill Murray win the last eight AA high school tourneys speaks something about the failure of these associations. In that list there is no Edina, Eden Prairie or Wayzata. Where has all the talent gone?[/quote]

Most Populous Cities in MN 2007

Minneapolis 387,970
St. Paul 287,151
Rochester 97,191
Bloomington 85,832
Duluth 84,167
Brooklyn Park 71,048
Plymouth 70,455
Eagan 66,709
St. Cloud* 64,232
Coon Rapids 63,480
Burnsville 61,262
Eden Prairie 60,955
Maple Grove 58,420
Woodbury 54,091
Blaine 54,020
Lakeville 51,722
Minnetonka 51,657
Apple Valley 48,988
Edina 47,448


Fred,

If you take the 20,000 or so residents of Plymouth that live in the Robbinsdale Armstrong and Cooper school districts, Wayzata Youth Hockey is the same size or less than many of the associations you do not bash. (The actual population of Wayzata is 4,102) In fact, they are head to head with your hometown favorites-the Apple Valley Eagles.

Edina has less than Apple Valley as well.

Winning/successful youth hockey programs, regardless of size, breed jealousy of those that can't keep up. Fred, you fall in this category based on your last post.[/quote]

Southernhockey :

For the most part hockey associations go by the school district ( boundaries of their high school ). Not by the city limits. Therefore a city of Bloomngton is irrelavant to the hockey community. In that city, we have 1 school district, two high schools, thus two hockey associations. As you move farther from the center of the twin cities, school districts and city limits are much further seperated. You may consider editing your point to Fred.

[GoGophersGuy]

OC.

I agree with your out of state post, you can't stop it and there is no way to try.

I was commenting on players who are in Minnesota, who move to the associtaiton just for that purpose. I had heard of a family who bought a place in Edina, just so there kid could play youth hockey there.


The last post... The size doesnt matter when you are bringing in the best kids to play.

[frederick61]

Compare the numbers at the peewee level. Edina and Wayzata field nine peewee teams in D6 and D3. My point is why don’t these associations furnish the same nine teams, but designate two of the team’s peewee A. Of the 150 peewee kids on those 9 teams, why is it so important to have the top 17 on one team versus the top 34 on two teams? Does it offer more opportunity for the kids? Does it help D6 and D3 to have one team dominate the peewee level year in and year out. Does it make the other teams in the Districts better or does it discourage competition?

There is an example of what dominance does when it discourages competition at the high school level. The Classic Lake was conceived as better way 10-15 years ago. Next year the Classic Lake dies because the high schools are leaving. They can’t compete with those left. That leaves Edina without a conference to play in. Every attempt will be made to coerce the Lake to split because Chaska/Chanhassen is adding a high school. But whatever conference or group of high schools finally agrees to let the Hornets in, it will be with great reluctance.

A single peewee A team holding back 135 kids so that 17 can achieve excellence for one year of their careers at the age of 11-12 serves no purpose. It is like having the Hoover Dam (a single peewee A team) holding back Lake Meade (eight other teams full of kids) and generating no power. That is my only problem with the large associations; their team's play on the ice rink will be what it will be.

By the way, Apple Valley has two associations, Apple Valley and Eastview. There is no city or town called Eastview in D6.

[Toomuchtoosoon]

There is no doubt that Wayzata and Edina should go with two "A"teams at most every level. Looking through the Wayzata website, it looks like their Bantam Blue and Squirt Blue teams are undefeated, with some lopsided scores in there. The Bantam A team had to pick from a group of kids that won the PW A championship two years ago, along with the PW B champion and runner up. Bantam Blue is unbeaten, with the only blemish coming from Wayzata Gold, kids that is made up ofskaters 31-60. The squirts are split evenly, and are 5 for 5 on tourneys.

They should just go A1 and A2 if the hangup is two even A teams. Minn Hockey nor the districts should stand in the way. The A2 may get throttled early, but they will get better and be competitive by the end of the year.

I think it is a shame that these kids are a part of so many blow-outs. They need to compete in order to develop and have fun. Blowouts lead to bad habits and sloppy play.

It is also interesting that edina white and green played a close game. There is nothing like having motivation to bring the best out of the kids.

A1 and A2 is a start. Hopefully it will eventually lead to two A1s.

[puckboy]

Rochester has gone A1 A2 in the past. It can and should be done by by the large associations.

[O-townClown]

Compare the numbers at the peewee level. Edina and Wayzata field nine peewee teams in D6 and D3. My point is why don’t these associations furnish the same nine teams, but designate two of the team’s peewee A. Of the 150 peewee kids on those 9 teams, why is it so important to have the top 17 on one team versus the top 34 on two teams? Does it offer more opportunity for the kids? Does it help D6 and D3 to have one team dominate the peewee level year in and year out. Does it make the other teams in the Districts better or does it discourage competition?

A single peewee A team holding back 135 kids so that 17 can achieve excellence for one year of their careers at the age of 11-12 serves no purpose. It is like having the Hoover Dam (a single peewee A team) holding back Lake Meade (eight other teams full of kids) and generating no power. That is my only problem with the large associations; their team's play on the ice rink will be what it will be.

I dunno Fred. Why is it necessary to pull back the strong programs in order to give the average ones a fighting chance? Shouldn't those communities try to grow in order to be another Edina? Centennial couldn't field a credible team when I played...today they are a power.

Braemar has three sheets and a private concern operates two more within Edina's border. Add in 13 outdoor facilities, most or all with attended warming houses, and you have a program worthy of envy - not scorn. And to appease others the answer is to dilute the youth teams? I don't agree. (Neither do scores of others who think gerrymandered elite all-star teams are the answer.)

You say kids in Lake Mead are held back. Are they? From my experience there is no question you cannot hold back kids. As a first year Pee Wee, not one player in my birthyear made a travel team (A and B were fielded) in West Edina. Including the kid that went on to score 150+ points in the WCHA. My Bantam team saw three players go on to be drafted. (NHL, not the military.) Bantam B team. In truth, I don't think any would have made the A team if two were fielded, so it's plausible they benefitted from having better players on their team to help them grow.

It is fine for us to disagree. Like everyone, I have tremendous respect for your passion. I have respect for all kids playing the game. (My son's team recently got pasted 10-2 and 14-3 on a Saturday, so I know what it is like on both sides.) What's missing seems to be respect on your part directed to the large associations. Something must be right for that many kids in Wayzata and Edina to still be playing highly organized hockey at age 12. Finally, I'd hate to see any policies that have the effect of discouraging participation. If Edina had just 6 PW teams it would still be the same 17 kids.

[southernhockey1]

[quote="O-townClown"][quote="frederick61"]Compare the numbers at the peewee level. Edina and Wayzata field nine peewee teams in D6 and D3. My point is why don’t these associations furnish the same nine teams, but designate two of the team’s peewee A. Of the 150 peewee kids on those 9 teams, why is it so important to have the top 17 on one team versus the top 34 on two teams? Does it offer more opportunity for the kids? Does it help D6 and D3 to have one team dominate the peewee level year in and year out. Does it make the other teams in the Districts better or does it discourage competition?

A single peewee A team holding back 135 kids so that 17 can achieve excellence for one year of their careers at the age of 11-12 serves no purpose. It is like having the Hoover Dam (a single peewee A team) holding back Lake Meade (eight other teams full of kids) and generating no power. That is my only problem with the large associations; their team's play on the ice rink will be what it will be.
[/quote]

I dunno Fred. Why is it necessary to pull back the strong programs in order to give the average ones a fighting chance? Shouldn't those communities try to grow in order to be another Edina? Centennial couldn't field a credible team when I played...today they are a power.

Braemar has three sheets and a private concern operates two more within Edina's border. Add in 13 outdoor facilities, most or all with attended warming houses, and you have a program worthy of envy - not scorn. And to appease others the answer is to dilute the youth teams? I don't agree. (Neither do scores of others who think gerrymandered elite all-star teams are the answer.)

You say kids in Lake Mead are held back. Are they? From my experience there is no question you cannot hold back kids. As a first year Pee Wee, not [b]one[/b] player in my birthyear made a travel team (A and B were fielded) in West Edina. Including the kid that went on to score 150+ points in the WCHA. My Bantam team saw [u]three players [/u]go on to be drafted. (NHL, not the military.) Bantam [b]B[/b] team. In truth, I don't think any would have made the A team if two were fielded, so it's plausible they benefitted from having better players on their team to help them grow.

It is fine for us to disagree. Like everyone, I have tremendous respect for your passion. I have respect for all kids playing the game. (My son's team recently got pasted 10-2 and 14-3 on a Saturday, so I know what it is like on both sides.) What's missing seems to be respect on your part directed to the large associations. Something must be right for that many kids in Wayzata and Edina to still be playing highly organized hockey at age 12. Finally, I'd hate to see any policies that have the effect of discouraging participation. If Edina had just 6 PW teams it would still be the same 17 kids.[/quote]

OTown,

Your recent post is right on the money. Well done!

[frederick61]

Otown wrote: “…Braemar has three sheets and a private concern operates two more within Edina's border. Add in 13 outdoor facilities, most or all with attended warming houses, and you have a program worthy of envy - not scorn. And to appease others the answer is to dilute the youth teams? I don't agree. (Neither do scores of others who think gerrymandered elite all-star teams are the answer.)”

How does having 34 out of 150 kids at the age of 11-12 playing peewee A versus 17 kids out of 150 kids “dilute the youth teams”? I would bet by the end of the season with two equally balanced A teams, one would have difficulty in picking the top 17 players, there would be more. That would “enrich” the large association’s youth hockey teams and bring up the skill levels of all 150 kids. But the association may not make the state peewee A tourney every year. Then “picking the top 17” has not insured making the state tourney every year either.

[GoGophersGuy]

OTown is from Edina?
Fred is from ?????

Just helps me figure out your views.

[elliott70]

OTown is from Edina?
Originally, now lives in Florida

Fred is from ?????
Originally from up north, Eveleth way.
Now lives in the metro area.
Just helps me figure out your views.

[Zgoal557]

About 2,756 people people live in Roseau. Where do they fit in?

[elliott70]

About 2,756 people people live in Roseau. Where do they fit in?

Memorial Arena

unless the game is in Warroad.

[Zgoal557]

That was good...

I once asked a Roseau Dad where they get their kids. He told me 90% of his son's class played hockey. (boys and girls) They seem to be doing well at the Peewee A level. Rink Rats still have a shot at playing with the big schools.

[Sneakyfast99]

Merry Christmas to all!

If the Peewee A season starts around November 1, then after this coming week of tournaments, the season is more then half over and winding down to district and regional tournaments leading to the state tourney March 20-22 at the New Hope Arena in suburban Minneapolis. The districts tourneys start the third week of February. If you count this week that means there are 8 weeks of regular season left.

This week I have added the potential state tourney draw. To do that each regional seed has to be predicted. Unlike last year when the winner the red or blue pool in a region played the other pool runner-up, it is my understanding that there is another game added. The #1 seed will be determined by having the two pool winners play each other. The loser of that game plays the winner of the runner-up game played by the second place finishers of each pool. The winner of this third game gets the #2 seed.

At the end of each regional, I have added the two best teams and their seeds. At the end of the write-up, I have seeded the teams as the Minnesota Hockey will do into the state tourney and show the draw.

North Regional
The North districts this year are D11 (2 seeds), D12 (3 seeds) and D16 (3seeds).

N1-District 11
This week was different for Cloquet as they ended up in the Grand Rapids Star of the North tourney beating D5 Sartell in the opening game, beat fellow D11 team Superior Wisconsin and won the championship beating D8 Rochester 4-3. This week the Lumberjacks play Superior and Duluth Lakers and then play in the Bemidji tourney. The Lumberjacks draw Warroad, Park Rapids and Fort Francis.

The Duluth Lakers are proudly sitting on top of the D11 league this week after beating Superior 5-4. They played in the Hudson Wisconsin tourney last week beating Antigo Red Robins (Wisconsin) 9-0, beating Southwest Wisconsin Eagles 5-2, beating D2 contender Forest Lake 4-3, but ended up second losing to D8 contender Hudson 5-2. This week they scrimmage Hermantown and Brainerd.

Hermantown tied Virginia 3-3 this week. Duluth East is winless in D11 losing their first 4 games. That does not bode well for the Hounds when play in the Edina tourney on January 1, 2009. They draw Edina, Elk River and Lakeville South in that order in pool play Jan 1-3.

Cloquet keeps the #1 seed because they took the Star of the North title and are the “Star” of the North (east). They are also unbeaten in D11 play, but the #2 seed this week goes to the other unbeaten D11 team, the Duluth Lakers.

N2-District 12
Roseville was the D12 measuring stick this week. Against Apple Valley, Hibbing had the closest game losing 4-3, Grand Rapids and Virginia were beaten by identical scores 5-2 and Eveleth was soundly beaten. Roseville opened their tour by soundly beating International Falls. The Rams then beat Hibbing 5-4, Virginia 3-0 and Eveleth.

Grand Rapids played in a second tourney in row. They played in their own Star of the North tourney. They beat D3 Hopkins 3-1 in the opening round and then lost to Rochester 2-0 and Superior 3-2 (in OT).

The Thunderhawks are under 500 so far this season and usually come to play at playoff time. Last year, they “mucked about” for most the season and finished second in the state tourney in March. It will be interesting to see how they fair in the coming weeks. But today, they are fortunate that there are only two other strong teams in D12 and with D12 having three seeds to pass out they are assured of a slot if the Thunderhawks have a decent district playoff.

Grand Rapids will finish their third December tourney by playing in the Bemidji tourney. The Rapids draw LOW, Keweenaw (Michigan), and Hastings. Virginia is in the Bemidji tourney. The Blue Devils (another nickname I really like) draw Crookston, St. Cloud and St. Vital.

For the third week in a row, the seeds in D12 remain unchanged; Virginia is the #1 seed, Hibbing #2 seed and the Thunderhawks #3 seed.

N3-District 16
It has been said by more then one person, that the Bemidji tourney is well run. It is one that I would like to see, but it means giving up the two Twin Cities tourneys I like to see. But to those “up north” it is worthwhile to watch and it is free.

This year, the tourney has drawn four teams from Canada, North Dakota, Wisconsin, and Michigan and matched them to four teams from D16 (one in each of four pools). Then eight Minnesota teams from different districts added to complete the four divisions. The divisions are North (Bemidji, Grand Forks, Armstrong and Superior), South (Crookston, Virginia, St. Vital, and St. Cloud), East (Warroad, Cloquet, Park Rapids in their first peewee A tourney appearance, and Fort Francis), and West (LOW, Grand Rapids, Keweenaw, and Hastings). Keweenaw Michigan won last year.

The tourney formats guarantees each team 5 games. The division play establishes seeds 1-4. Then all the like seeds (all the #1’s) play a four team bracket play for first, second, third and fourth.

Roseau beat East Grand Forks last week 5-1 and Bemidji 8-4 in D16 league play. The Rams take a swing through Moorhead play the Spuds, the Fargo Raiders and the Fargo Flyers. They stop in East Grand Forks to give the Green Wave a return match on Monday.

Bemidji still looks strong and may emerge as a challenger. The seeds are unchanged this week with Roseau #1 and EGF #2. Bemidji takes the #3 seed.

The projected North Regional Tourney draw is shown below.
North Red Division: D16-#1 Roseau, D12-#2 Hibbing, D11-#2 Hermantown, D16-#3 Bemidji.
North Blue Division: D12-#1 Virginia, D16-#2 East Grand Forks, D11-#1 Cloquet, D12-#3 Grand Rapids.

North Regional seeds: #1 Roseau and #2 Cloquet. At this point in the season, these two teams are clear favorites. Duluth Lakers and EGF are the challengers.

South Regional
The South districts this year are D1 (3 seeds), D4 (2 seeds) and D5 (3 seeds). D1 has split their peewee A teams between D3 and D2 for regular season play.

S1-District 1
The story this week could have been winless D1 team takes the top spot in D3 league play. It didn’t happen. The D1 winless team, Mpls Park, ran into a tough Orono team losing 3-0. A win in that game would have given the Storm the top spot at the Christmas break in D3 reguardless of the outcome of their game with Wayzata (a 9-2 loss).

Highland played Moundsview in a D2 game last week and have the rest of the week off. The Irondale Knights tied Washburn 4-4 in a D1 game and lost to White Bear Lake 9-0 in a D2 game. They play St. Francis on the weekend and play in the Albert Lea tourney over the New Year’s weekend.

With the D1 teams taking the holiday break, there is little action in D1. This week, the seeds remain unchanged with Mpls Park the #1 seed. Highland is #2 and Washburn takes #3.

S2-District 4
New Prague beat Owatonna 6-3 in a key D4 match-up handing the Huskies their second league loss. The Trojans went on to beat St. Peter in a second league game and then beat Hastings and Kennedy by identical 3-1 scores to sweep the four games this week. The Kennedy win avenges an earlier season loss to the Eagles. The wins bring the Trojan’s season record to 18-2-1. They have two games scheduled this week.

Owatonna did let any (snow covered) grass grow under their snowshoes and took second in the New Ulm tourney on the weekend, beating MALM 5-3 and Chisago Lakes 5-4 before losing to Shakopee 7-3. Owatonna plays St. Peter this week in D4 action.

Mankato lost to Hastings 4-3 and beat Marshall in D4 play last week. The Mavericks play Waseca in another D4 game on the weekend. Luverne played Faribault last week after a two plus weeks off of league play. Faribault lost to D8 Lakeville South 8-2 last week.

Luverne continues to set the standard thus far in league play with 10 of their 14 games (not counting the Faribault game) having been played. Their 24 points lead the league, but Owatonna, Mankato and New Prague are all starting to close the gap. Sitting outside these four teams are Albert Lea and Faribault, but can either make a second half charge to catch the top four?

The Trojans remain the #1 seed this week; with Luverne #2 seed and Mankato #3 seed to playoff with the D1 #3 seed for a regional ticket.

S3-District 5
MALM beat Mound Westonka 5-3 giving the White Hawks their fourth league loss. The White Hawks then lost to Orono 4-0, tied Crow River 6-6 and played Litchfield to end the a tough week. That loss and tie put the White Hawks back in the pack and leaves Buffalo and Crow River in tie for first with MALM a single point behind.

Buffalo got back in D5 action after the Moorhead tourney by beating Litchfield 7-1 and playing Champlin Park. This week the Bison have off to prepare for MALM and Crow River on the New Year’s weekend. Crow River beat River Lakes 9-1 this week and plays Hutchinson this week. After beating Mound Westonka, MALM took Consolation in the New Ulm tourney by beating New Ulm 8-2 and Hutchinson 5-2 after losing the opener to Owatonna. The Stars have two more D5 games on tap playing STMA and Sartell this week.

Sartell played in the Grand Rapids tourney and was soundly beaten by D11 powerhouse Cloquet, lost to a though Orono team 5-2 and to D3 Hopkins 4-3. The Sabres are struggling. The #1 seed remains unchanged this week, Buffalo. MALM moves into the #2 seed and #3 seeds goes to Crow River. In D5, the regular season Champion gets the #1 seed and does not play in the playoffs.

The projected South Regional Tourney draw is shown below.
South Red Division: D1-#1 Mpls Park, D4-#2 Luverne, D5-#2 MALM, D5-#3 Crow River
South Blue Division: D4-#1 New Prague, D1-#2 Highland, D5-#1 Buffalo, D1-#3 Mankato or Washburn.

South Regional seeds: #1 New Prague and #2 Mpls Park. New Prague looks solid and continues to play well. Mpls Park has been tough and then lost to teams they should have played tougher including Highland. Teams to watch in the coming two months are MALM and Crow River. At this point the #2 seed is wide open, but New Prague continues to impress.

East Regional
The East districts this year are D2 (3 seeds), D6 (2 seeds) and D8 (3 seeds)

E1-District 2
District standings always look sort of weird this time of the year. But D2 looks the weirdest. The forfeits have been resolved. But there is no resolution elsewhere. Roseville came off a successful week. The Rams won five games in a row, four on a trip through D12 beating Hibbing, International Falls, Virginia and Eveleth. Before leaving, they beat Mahtomedi 4-2 in a D2 game. Unfortunately they tried to sneak in a sixth game in seven days against D2 North St. Paul and tied them 4-4.

The Rams are off this Christmas week. White Bear Lake beat Irondale in league play. They also have the week off as they prepare to play in the Edina tourney on New Years day. The Bears draw the three C’s, Chaska, Centennial and the Colorado Thunderbirds, in pool play.

Forest Lake sits in second place in D2 within striking distance of the Bears. The Lakers and Bears play a similar D2 schedule the rest of the season and meet near the end of the season in a February game that could decide the D2 championship. The Lakers played in the Hudson Tourney over the weekend beating Eau Claire the reigning Wisconsin state peewee A champ from last year before losing to the Duluth Lakers.

Moundsview has an opportunity to step up and prove the strength of their team this week in the Bloomington tourney starting the day after Christmas. They draw Kennedy, Jefferson and Inver Grove Heights in pool play. Stillwater and Moundsview have identical league records. The Ponies have been playing well. They beat Rosemount last week 3-1 and play Woodbury this week before playing in the Edina Tourney January 1 drawing Wayzata, Eden Prairie and Eagan. This draw almost matches the one the Ponies drew in the Eden Prairie Thanksgiving tourney (Wayzata, Eagan and Centennial).

Forest Lake still has the #1 seed this week. Despite struggling in games outside D2, their two wins knocking off two of the D2 top teams a week ago remains impressive. White Bear Lake takes the #2 seed and Stillwater takes the #3 seed. But one could ask why not Moundsview, Roseville or North St. Paul. Well, that’s next week. It is a balanced league.

E2-District 6

Burnsville was the only unbeaten team in D6 as last week started. Eden Prairie beat the Blaze 4-3 putting a big one in the Blaze’s lost column. The Blaze came back to beat Chaska 4-2 in tough up and down game that saw Chaska leading 2-1 into the third period. Then the Blaze forwards went to work and a center found the upper right hand corner by the barest of margins from the dead center slot. The Blaze worked a good full sheet passing game to score the third with the defenseman that started the breakout deep in the Blaze zone ending up scoring an easy goal off a sharp pass to the weak side a few seconds later.

When the dust had cleared from all the D6 games last week, three teams sat on top with one loss each, Edina, Eden Prairie and Burnsville. Eastview with two losses was starting to falter. One of the reasons was a 6-3 loss to Minnetonka, a team that looked to have found its stride and was starting to string some D6 wins together. But then the Skippers caught Chaska coming off the Burnsville loss and were beaten 4-3.

The top three teams are taking different routes this week. Edina and Eden Prairie play in the Edina tourney, Burnsville plays in the Bloomington Tourney. Edina beat Apple Valley 8-1 and Jefferson 5-1 in D6 play. This week they have a return match with Wayzata as a tune-up for their tourney. Eden Prairie has a scrimmage coming up with Colorado Arvada next week before the Edina Tourney. Eastview beat Jefferson 5-2 last week. The Lightening have a game with rival Apple Valley this week. Both Eastview and Apple Valley associations are mostly in Apple Valley and they share the same two arenas. Eastview has a chance to “right themselves” playing D6 rivals Prior Lake and Minnetonka and Littleton Colorado in pool play in Bloomington.

All the action this week will be in Bloomington as their tourney kicks off on December 26th. Burnsville will be matched in pool play with Osseo/Maple Grove, Woodbury and D6 rival Apple Valley.

In the Edina tourney, that would be the “death pool”, with only one most likely advancing. But in Bloomington, the pool only sets up the seeds for a 14 team single elimination bracket play tourney as each team in pool play can end up with 0-52 points for seeding by the end of their three games using silver stick scoring.

All teams advance to bracket play. Besides Burnsville and Apple Valley, the tourney has D6 teams Prior Lake, Eastview, Minnetonka, Jefferson, and Kennedy. There is one out of state team from Littleton, Colorado playing. Add to that the four D8 teams currently at the top of the D8 standings, Woodbury, Lakeville North, Inver Grove Heights and Rosemount. Moundsview is the sole D2 rep.

In addition to Peewee A tourney, there are Peewee B, Bantam A and Bantam B tourneys being played at the same time in the same arena at Bloomington. The arena has three sheets of ice, small, medium and large (Olympic size). So teams get tested.

Shakopee won their second tourney in a row, beating Hutchinson 7-3, North Metro 8-4 and Owatonna 7-3 to win the New Ulm title. Prior Lake had their 3 game D6 win streak stopped. After beating Chaska 5-3 early in the week, they lost to Kennedy 4-2.

If the D6 seeds playoff seeds were handed out today, the order would be Edina, Eden Prairie, Burnsville, Eastview and essentially a seven team tie for the vital 5th seed to avoid the single elimination tourney. But that’s the D6 playoff seeds, the seeds projected here are who wins the playoffs. That is difficult this week with Eden Prairie beating Burnsville.

But based on Edina’s performance against Apple Valley this week, the answer is clear. The D6 seeds this week go to Burnsville as the #1 seed and Eden Prairie as the #2 seed.

E3-District 8
How the Bloomington tourney could luck out and get the top four teams in D8 is amazingly lucky. Woodbury and Lakeville North remain on top of the D8 standings, but Inver Grove Heights run has put them in third followed by Rosemount.

Woodbury and Lakeville North fought it out on Sunday with Woodbury wining 1-0 in a good game especially the first period. This win came one day after the Royals beat Wayzata 4-1. Woodbury beat Cottage Grove earlier in the week to make last week a good one. The Royals play Burnsville, Osseo/Maple Grove and Apple Valley in pool play at Bloomington. Lakeville North beat Red Wing 5-0 before losing to Woodbury. They play Rosemount, Inver Grove Heights and Kennedy in the Bloomington tourney.

Inver Grove Heights beat Sibley 8-3, Northfield and Red Wing in D8 play last week. They draw Jefferson, Lakeville North and Moundsview in pool play. Rosemount had a tougher week. Besides losing to Stillwater 3-1, they tied Farmington in D8 play. Cottage Grove didn’t fair much better, losing to Woodbury, beating Eagan 3-1 and losing to Sibley in D8 play.

This week the #1 seed goes to Woodbury and the #2 seed to Lakeville North. Last week, out of courtesy, Inver Grove Heights took the #3 seed. Last week, they earned it.

The projected East Regional Tourney draw is shown below.
East Red Division: D6-#1 Burnsville, D8-#2 Lakeville North, D2-#2 White Bear Lake, D8-#3 Inver Grove Heights
East Blue Division: D8-#1 Woodbury, D6-#2 Eden Prairie, D2-#1 Forest Lake, D2-#3 Stillwater.

East Regional seeds: #1 Burnsville, #2 Eden Prairie. Woodbury could challenge but the D8 teams will be tested this week at Bloomington. White Bear Lake had a good tourney in the Spirit of Duluth, but can they repeat with a good showing in Edina?

West Regional
The West districts this year are D3 (2 seeds), D10 (3 seeds) and D15 (3 seeds)

W1-District 3
The dominant two teams in D3 this year are Wayzata and Osseo/Maple Grove. Both teams were 6-0 in D3 play entering a key match-up against each other last week. Fitting the game ended in a 2-2 tie and resolved nothing. The Trojans beat Mpls Park 8-2 before and lost to Woodbury 4-1 before playing Osseo/Maple Grove. Wayzata plays Edina on neutral ice this week (St. Louis Park arena) in a warm-up to the Edina tourney on New Years weekend. But it would not be surprising if both Edina and Wayzata set up a scrimmage with the Colorado Thunder over the holidays.

Osseo/Maple Grove are in the Bloomington tourney this week and draw Burnsville, Woodbury and Apple Valley in pool play. OMG has a 20-3-1 record and won 9 straight before the Wayzata tie. They beat Armstrong 6-0 last week.

Orono has a scrimmage with one of the Colorado teams in town over the holiday (there are at least three, the Thunderbirds, Littleton and Averado). The Spartans took Consolation Championship at Grand Rapids losing to Superior 3-2 in the opening round, then beating Sartell 5-2 and Coon Rapids 4-0. Orono’s problem will be how to get a seed in a district where the D3 has only two seeds and two tough teams. They will have break up the Wayzata/OMG duo to advance.

Armstrong is in the same situation. They have been playing well and are in the Bemidji tourney this week playing Bemidji, Grand Forks and Superior in the opening round. Hopkins and North Metro continues to struggle going winless in D3 play.

The top two teams in D3 this week are unchanged, Wayzata #1 and Osseo/Maple Grove #2.

W2-District 10
D10 has split into two divisions, Blue and Green, this year. The top eight teams in points play in a double elimination tourney for the three D10 seeds this year. The Blue Division remains balanced with seven teams separated by 5 points. Centennial, Blaine and Andover seem to be the Blue Division teams poised to make a run.

Andover remains unbeaten in D10 play. Last week, they tied Spring Lake Park 3-3 in D10 play. This week they cross over and play Green Division leader, Elk River and Cambridge/Isanti/North Branch (CINB). In mid-January, the Huskies league schedule gets hectic as they play 9 D10 games in three weeks to end regular season play.

Centennial tied Blaine last week 3-3 and played St. Cloud. This week they play three league games, Anoka, St. Francis and Princeton as a tune-up for the Edina tourney. At Edina, they open against the Colorado Thunderbirds and then play White Bear Lake and Chaska. Blaine has a quiet holiday, playing one D10 game with Chisago Lakes.

In the Green Division, Elk River is now solidly on top and headed for the #1 seed in the D10 playoffs. St. Cloud remains their closest contender in the Green Division and also for the #1 seed based on their point totals. The Elks beat Anoka 5-1 and CINB 8-1 last week. This week they play Sauk Rapids and Andover as a tune-up for the Edina Tourney. The Elks draw Lakeville South, Edina and Duluth East in pool play.

Besides losing to Elk River, CINB lost 4-1 to Champlin Park to fall to 3-3 in Green Division play. St. Cloud heads to Bemidji this week. In pool play they draw St. Vital, Crookston and Virginia.


Champlin Park has two D10 games this week, Rogers and Anoka. Wins in these games would really solidify their D10 playoff hopes. The Green Division seems likely to take two D10 playoff seeds. CINB could be a third. That leaves seven Blue teams to fight it out for the other six playoff seeds. If Centennial, Blaine and Andover make a run in the Blue Division, that leaves Coon Rapids, Spring Lake Park, Champlin Park and Anoka to battle it out for the last 3 seeds.

After Jan 11, Elk River will have five D10 games, Centennial will have seven D10 games left to play and Blaine will have 10 games left to play.

For the third week in a row, the seeds are unchanged in D10. The #1 seed goes to Elk River with Blaine taking the #2 seed and Centennial the #3 seed. Elk River and Centennial can make their own statement with a good appearance in the Edina tourney. Blaine stays home for the Christmas season playing D10 games. Then they play in the Brainerd Tourney later in January.



W3-District 15
The regular league play is starting to shake itself out. Alexandria, Brainerd and Moorhead are on top and have separated from the others. Brainerd beat Detroit Lakes 6-0 and tied St. Cloud 3-3 this past week. They make a weekend trip into D11 playing Hermantown and the Duluth Lakers. They have a key D15 match-up the following week with Alexandria.

Alexandria played Moorhead last week in league play and are off this week. Moorhead played Crookston besides Alex this week and will be playing Roseau and Fergus Falls on the weekend.

Park Rapids will be playing in their first tourney as peewee A’s this year. They draw Warroad, Cloquet and Fort Francis in pool play. It would be nice to see the Panthers win a few games, but it is tough playing your first season at the A level.

Pequot Lakes is in the same boat. They have tied Park Rapids in their only meeting this year 5-5 and were beaten by Detroit Lakes 9-2. Fergus Falls has been struggling. They play Moorhead in a D15 game this week that could determine where they end up in the D15 playoffs seeds. Detroit Lakes heads for the Crookston Tourney on New Years weekend. The Lakers continue to work hard to improve themselves and could be a surprise in the D15 playoffs.

Brainerd has clearly entrenched themselves as #1 in D15. Alex (#2) and Moorhead (#3) will have to take it away from them.

The projected South Regional Tourney draw is shown below.
West Red Division: D10-#1 Elk River, D15-#2 Alexandria, D3-#2 Osseo/Maple Grove, D10-#3 Centennial
W Blue Division: D15-#1 Brainerd, D10-#2 Blaine, D3-#1 Wayzata, D15-#3 Moorhead.

West Regional seeds: #1 Osseo/Maple Grove, #2 Elk River. Wayzata lost to Woodbury and tied OMG. Their play at Edina could re-establish their rep as the #1 team in the state. But this week, they don’t get out of a tough West regional tourney.

2009 Peewee A State Tournament Quarterfinal Pairings:
S1: New Prague
N2: Cloquet

W1: Osseo/Maple Grove
E2: Eden Prairie

N1: Roseau
S2: Mpls Park

E1: Burnsville
W2: Elk River

Again, Merry Christmas!

Fred-I believe for district 10 its the top 4 teams of each division (blue and green) that will advance to the district tournament, Not top 8 between the two. Thats what I'm told by our district contact.

[Hattrick81]

"I would bet by the end of the season with two equally balanced A teams, one would have difficulty in picking the top 17 players, there would be more."

One could argue that you might have difficulty picking the top 17 because the top 17 are playing "down" with numbers 18-30 who should probably be playing B hockey. The top 17 could regress. THIS IS A VERY REAL POSSIBILITY. Should #1 be on a team with #30? I don't see how that helps #1. You can't just assume that playing A hockey will only be a benefit for skaters 18-30. There's something to be said for kids who barely miss an A team as #18 through whatever # you come up with. Many times these kids dominate at the B level and it makes them better players in the long run as they learn valuable skills and gain confidence.

Hockey at this age is always about development yet you still need to keep the interests of the top players in mind, not just the kids who want to play on an A team but "can't" because there's only one A team in the association.

[muckandgrind]

"I would bet by the end of the season with two equally balanced A teams, one would have difficulty in picking the top 17 players, there would be more."

One could argue that you might have difficulty picking the top 17 because the top 17 are playing "down" with numbers 18-30 who should probably be playing B hockey. The top 17 could regress. THIS IS A VERY REAL POSSIBILITY. Should #1 be on a team with #30? I don't see how that helps #1. You can't just assume that playing A hockey will only be a benefit for skaters 18-30. There's something to be said for kids who barely miss an A team as #18 through whatever # you come up with. Many times these kids dominate at the B level and it makes them better players in the long run as they learn valuable skills and gain confidence.

Hockey at this age is always about development yet you still need to keep the interests of the top players in mind, not just the kids who want to play on an A team but "can't" because there's only one A team in the association.

It depends on the size of the association. Are you telling me that players #18-30 in Wayzata couldn't make the A team for most other associations? When you have over 175 players trying out for a team, #18 - 30 are going to be good players and would not slow the growth of players #1 - 17. In fact, I think the growth of the top players would be accelerated knowing that they won't just walk over opponents like they are used to, they are going to have to work harder.

I'm not saying that all associations should be running two A teams, only the largest should be....because like I just said, when you have 175 players trying out, there are at least 25-30 "A" calibre players to be found in that group.

[Bronc]

O-townClown:
You asked me why I referenced the Apple Valley game. I answered with what I saw on the ice, a smaller Edina team struggling when challenged physically. Would you rather I ignore what I saw? I won’t. It is my opinion. But it is not all as one sided as you claim.

However, I am more critical about Edina, Wayzata, and Eden Prairie because these large programs will not field two peewee A teams. To field under Minnesota Hockey rules (as I understand them) two peewee A teams means taking the top 30 of a 120 or more kids and dividing them equally between the two teams.

I am critical because large associations who want to field only one peewee A team give no credit to the kids in their programs. They believe that unless they have a single A team with the top kids on it, the association is somewhat less for it. I believe just the opposite, the association is better for doing it, the district they play in is better for them doing it and Minnesota Hockey is better overall.

But it goes beyond that. These large associations have arrogance about themselves because they believe they are the best. To prove it to themselves, they play each other over and over again in each other’s tourney. They invite other teams they think are good, but the other teams are scheduled in such a way that they become cannon fodder to feed the associations collective ego.

What large associations have to understand that kids are kids. They like to play hockey and they are growing. They are developing and their association's role should be to aid in their development.

A kids play improves as they grow, sometime weeks to weeks. But if association choses to cast the a small percentage of their kids in the highest level of excellence, they can lose the good players who develop in a manner outside their perceived level of excellence.

In a way, looking at Blaine, Elk River, Holy Angels, Anoka, Centennial, Cretin, Roseau and Hill Murray win the last eight AA high school tourneys speaks something about the failure of these associations. In that list there is no Edina, Eden Prairie or Wayzata. Where has all the talent gone?

Most Populous Cities in MN 2007

Minneapolis 387,970
St. Paul 287,151
Rochester 97,191
Bloomington 85,832
Duluth 84,167
Brooklyn Park 71,048
Plymouth 70,455
Eagan 66,709
St. Cloud* 64,232
Coon Rapids 63,480
Burnsville 61,262
Eden Prairie 60,955
Maple Grove 58,420
Woodbury 54,091
Blaine 54,020
Lakeville 51,722
Minnetonka 51,657
Apple Valley 48,988
Edina 47,448


Fred,

If you take the 20,000 or so residents of Plymouth that live in the Robbinsdale Armstrong and Cooper school districts, Wayzata Youth Hockey is the same size or less than many of the associations you do not bash. (The actual population of Wayzata is 4,102) In fact, they are head to head with your hometown favorites-the Apple Valley Eagles.

Edina has less than Apple Valley as well.

Winning/successful youth hockey programs, regardless of size, breed jealousy of those that can't keep up. Fred, you fall in this category based on your last post.

Southernhockey :

For the most part hockey associations go by the school district ( boundaries of their high school ). Not by the city limits. Therefore a city of Bloomngton is irrelavant to the hockey community. In that city, we have 1 school district, two high schools, thus two hockey associations. As you move farther from the center of the twin cities, school districts and city limits are much further seperated. You may consider editing your point to Fred.

It is about the number of kids in the association not the population in the town.

[Zgoal557]

About 2,756 people people live in Roseau. Where do they fit in?

My first thread to pump myself or what.

[watchdog]

zgoal just for get what i said its not that big of a deal. sometimes i see things i just get the erge to jump at for one reason or another. im sure the boy is a great player and i hope he makes it to the big show!!!!!

[Zgoal557]

Forgotten. I'm just sorry I have not seen Roseau play. I admire a town the size of Roseau going toe to toe with the big dogs in the state.

About Hibbing #16? I think he could be a factor in upsetting Grand Rapids or Virginia in District 12. But....both towns have two hot goalies.

[Hockeyguy_27]

Interesting topic, perhaps, in their infinite wisdom, the powers to be will mandate different classes for associations based upon size. This way everyone can win a trophy. I'm sure there is some money in the Stimulus package set aside for this very reason

[Zgoal557]

Napolean once said, "Give them a medal and they will die for you." I sure hope I'm not teaching the kids under my wing this lesson.

You work hard, play hard and measure your team's success by their competition. Win or lose.