Class A rankings (2-9-09)

warriors41 · Post by **warriors41** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:51 pm

1. Little Falls- They are undefeated, get over it people. If there schedule is gonna hurt them, we will see in the state tournament when all this stuff really counts.
2. Warroad- Playing very good hockey right now. Two strong scoring lines and a deep bench of defensemen. They have lost two games but didn;t get blown out, couldv'e won them both.
3. SCC- Good strong team- also seem to be on the op of their game.
4. STA- The fact is is that they have lost 4 games. A Bill Parcels quote has just popped into my head-"You're as good as you're record." This could also apply to Little Falls
5. Breck
6. Hermantown
And to be honest I don't really care after this point. These are the teams I think can win the state tourny

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:57 pm

hshckfan08, thank you for bringing something up that everyone can relate to. Don't know much about George Mason specifically, sorry.

Boise State, Utah [and Hawaii] all go out and dominate their lowly opponents every game. These teams didn't play the quality teams during the season that other teams did, which is why they didn't get as good of a bowl game. Boise State three seasons ago shows us that it is possible to have a bad schedule and still be a great team. Hawaii two seasons ago shows us you can dominate a bad schedule and not be a top caliber team. In either scenario, you don't get a high ranking because you have not proven yourself with the games you have played. You may be the top team, you may not be, but with the games played, you don't deserve the top mark.

I would also put TCU in that boat.

The strength of their schedule is also why USC couldn't recover from its 1 point, 1 loss season.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:03 pm

"You're as good as you're record."

Yeah, in a sport where all the players are professionals and on any given Sunday, etc, etc

Sleepy Eye wouldn't (in the foreseeable future) be able to compete with Centennial. Every team in the NBA, NHL, NFL, MBL can all compete in any given day.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:10 pm

dirtkiller_97,
I'm still really confused how thinking that a team isn't the top team means you don't respect them. Explain that one to me. Please

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:17 pm

scoreboard33,
"I think you have to account for how they have done against their schedule for in season rankings"
I AM! That's my whole thing. I would be totally fine with them at #1 if they were putting up conference scores like AHA or Breck. But they aren't. End of story.

While everyone is sitting here with the "The fact is is that they have lost 4 games." or "yeah they don't have a AA schedule like STA" comments, do you really think that anyone in the top 8 (or so) couldn't have a schedule similar to STA's? SCC, Warroad, Hermantown, Breck and a couple others all have the talent and respect to have top AA teams accept games with them. I know it's a proximity thing, but Alex is playing Moorhead...

Can we agree to disagree? Please?

P.S. Braham has 22 of their 26 games taken up by conference, tournaments and other misc commitments. They were playing great AAAA and AAA teams, but only 4 a year.

MNHockey75 · Post by **MNHockey75** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:38 am

SargeyWargey09 wrote:
MNHockey75 wrote:2/9

1. Little Falls 20-0
2. St. Thomas Academy 16-4-1
3. St. Cloud Cathedral 17-2-1
4. Warroad 20-2
5. Hermantown 19-2
6. Breck 17-3-1
7. South St. Paul 14-4-3
8. Mahtomedi 14-5-1
9. Thief River Falls 15-4-2
10. Virginia 17-5
11. International Falls 14-6-1
12. Hibbing 13-6-1
13. Duluth Marshall 12-7-1
14. Alexandria 17-3-1
15. Totino-Grace 14-6-2
haha this is a joke? 1. Warroad
2. STA
3. Little Falls
4.Hermantown
5.SCC
6.South Saint Paul
7. Breck
8. Thief River Falls
9. Mahtomedi
10.International Falls

No joke pal. Warroad and Hermantown ahead of Cathedral? Hmm...

deacon · Post by **deacon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:58 am

hshckfan08 wrote:
deacon wrote:
hshckfan08 wrote: So how do you explain Utah, Boise State, George Mason basketball
Ummmm.. Wasn't Utah undefeated this year and they still weren't the national champions? Thats why SOS matters. Same with Boise State. Those schools can go undefeated every year, but until they play better teams, it's not going to matter, they will not be national champions. George Mason is an outlier that got extremely hot at the right time, plain and simple.
Ummmm... The president of the United States of America felt like they could have been the national champions if the appropriate playoff system was in place. My point is that they beat a team that was considered to be the best team in the nation, despite their soft schedule. So the statement that schedule defines you is ridiculous.

Is this post serious? Is this a joke? The logic of the "president thought they could national champions if a playoff system was in place" is so laughable. I mean, you really can't be serious. First, since when is the president considered an authority when it comes to evaluating a football team? Second, if a playoff system was in place, how do you know they would have won the three games or whatever it would have been needed to win be crowned the national champion? Third, the team that was considered to be the best team in the nation wasn't Alabama, it was Florida. Florida beat Alabama. Many also thought that Oklahoma or Texas was better than Alabama at the time when Alabama played Utah. No one thought Alabama was the best team in the country before they played Utah. There too many hypothetical situations.

If your schedule doesn't define you, what does? Is it what you eat for breakfast? Whether you wear boxers or briefs? What kind of stick you use? Whether you use white or black tape? How often you sharpen your skates? The fact is, LF has a weak schedule. It's not their fault, but don't expect people not to bring it up when we're trying to discuss who is the best team. Keep posting for my enjoyment please, it is hilarious.

Edit: Utah finished 2nd in the AP poll, 4th in the USA Today Coaches poll, and finally, a 12-0 Utah finished 6th in the BCS behind five (5) 1 loss teams, a system that heavily weighs SOS. So yes, your schedule defines a team.

thewanderer103 · Post by **thewanderer103** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:49 am

theblandyman wrote:
SargeyWargey09 wrote:
haha this is a joke?

1. Warroad
2. STA
3. Little Falls
4.Hermantown
5.SCC
6.South Saint Paul
7. Breck
8. Thief River Falls
9. Mahtomedi
10.International Falls
You've got SCC behind two teams that they beat...think about it and try again...

Blandy, what are your rankings?

theblandyman · Post by **theblandyman** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:03 am

thewanderer103 wrote:
Blandy, what are your rankings?

1. Little Falls
2. St. Thomas
3. Breck
4. St. Cloud Cathedral
5. Warroad
6. Hermantown
7. South St. Paul
8. TRF
9. Alexandria
10. Mahtomedi

hshckfan08 · Post by **hshckfan08** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:54 am

The president reference was in response to you saying that they were undefeated and still werent national champions. You just pointed out the flaw in the BCS which everyone knows. If there was a playoff, despite their weak schedule they obviously could have competed and won the national championship. That is my point.

"No one thought Alabama was the best team in the country before they played Utah"
yup. Thats why they were ranked no. 1 in the nation longer than any other team in the country.

Back to the point, Utah beat a top 5 team in the nation with one of the worst schedules in the nation. Dont have such a narrow focus. Schedule helps, but in a playoff system like high school hockey, to say that Schedule defines you is ridiculous.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:54 pm

hshckfan08, you hit the nail right on the head. Your analogy was great, showing that college football needs a playoff system, just like we have in high school hockey (most sports), that teams like Little Falls who win out with a bad schedule wouldn't be ranked high but would have the chance to prove themselves in a playoff system, right?

Oh wait, that's not the conclusion you drew...you used Boise State and Utah, two teams who won out with weak schedules who were ranked 9th and 6th respectively in the last poll, to show that a team in high school hockey who wins out with a weak schedule should be #1.
Hmmm...

"to say that Schedule defines you is ridiculous"
You're missing the main point. It defines where you should be ranked and how good you have proven yourself to be. Utah proved with their schedule they were good enough to be #6. They then went on to beat the #4 team by 3 pt margin bigger than the national champs did. With a playoff system they could've proven themselves to be #1. Comparing scores, Little Falls might've been the #2 team in state last year, but in our flawed ranking system they were paired up with the #1 team right away.

cu@darink · Post by **cu@darink** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:19 pm

HShockeywatcher wrote:hshckfan08, you hit the nail right on the head. Your analogy was great, showing that college football needs a playoff system, just like we have in high school hockey (most sports), that teams like Little Falls who win out with a bad schedule wouldn't be ranked high but would have the chance to prove themselves in a playoff system, right?

Oh wait, that's not the conclusion you drew...you used Boise State and Utah, two teams who won out with weak schedules who were ranked 9th and 6th respectively in the last poll, to show that a team in high school hockey who wins out with a weak schedule should be #1.
Hmmm...

"to say that Schedule defines you is ridiculous"
You're missing the main point. It defines where you should be ranked and how good you have proven yourself to be. Utah proved with their schedule they were good enough to be #6. They then went on to beat the #4 team by 3 pt margin bigger than the national champs did. With a playoff system they could've proven themselves to be #1. Comparing scores, Little Falls might've been the #2 team in state last year, but in our flawed ranking system they were paired up with the #1 team right away.

It's the PC bs of only ranking 4 that's flawed. H.S. League doesn't want to offend # 8 so they don't rank the last 4. This is what makes the rankings now and at the end of the season important. Guaranteed if LF lost a game or loses one they will not be seeded again.

hshckfan08 · Post by **hshckfan08** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:02 pm

HShockeywatcher wrote:hshckfan08, you hit the nail right on the head. Your analogy was great, showing that college football needs a playoff system, just like we have in high school hockey (most sports), that teams like Little Falls who win out with a bad schedule wouldn't be ranked high but would have the chance to prove themselves in a playoff system, right?

Oh wait, that's not the conclusion you drew...you used Boise State and Utah, two teams who won out with weak schedules who were ranked 9th and 6th respectively in the last poll, to show that a team in high school hockey who wins out with a weak schedule should be #1.
Hmmm...

"to say that Schedule defines you is ridiculous"
You're missing the main point. It defines where you should be ranked and how good you have proven yourself to be. Utah proved with their schedule they were good enough to be #6. They then went on to beat the #4 team by 3 pt margin bigger than the national champs did. With a playoff system they could've proven themselves to be #1. Comparing scores, Little Falls might've been the #2 team in state last year, but in our flawed ranking system they were paired up with the #1 team right away.

Hockeywatcher,try sylvan to learn how to read and comprehend.
I never mentioned Little Falls, ever, in this thread, once. Schedule doesn't define you. You are the most absurdly unintelligent person i have ever had a conversation with. Get a frickin life and quit trying to bring up Little Fall's weak schedule.

scoreboard33 · Post by **scoreboard33** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:20 pm

HShockeywatcher wrote:scoreboard33,
"I think you have to account for how they have done against their schedule for in season rankings"
I AM! That's my whole thing. I would be totally fine with them at #1 if they were putting up conference scores like AHA or Breck. But they aren't. End of story.

While everyone is sitting here with the "The fact is is that they have lost 4 games." or "yeah they don't have a AA schedule like STA" comments, do you really think that anyone in the top 8 (or so) couldn't have a schedule similar to STA's? SCC, Warroad, Hermantown, Breck and a couple others all have the talent and respect to have top AA teams accept games with them. I know it's a proximity thing, but Alex is playing Moorhead...

Can we agree to disagree? Please?

P.S. Braham has 22 of their 26 games taken up by conference, tournaments and other misc commitments. They were playing great AAAA and AAA teams, but only 4 a year.

The point I was making is you give too much rating to point spread and not enough to Wins vs. losses, the difference between a win and a loss is a lot bigger than winning by 1 versus winning by 2 or 3.

I'm pretty sure one of the tournaments you counted was a tournament against AAA and AAAA and top out state teams, changing the total to 7 and while Braham didn't play two much of an amazing schedule, they didn't pick on the lowly cellar dwellars, they played fairly solid AA teams.

deacon · Post by **deacon** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:24 pm

hshckfan08 wrote:The president reference was in response to you saying that they were undefeated and still werent national champions. You just pointed out the flaw in the BCS which everyone knows. If there was a playoff, despite their weak schedule they obviously could have competed and won the national championship. That is my point.

"No one thought Alabama was the best team in the country before they played Utah"
yup. Thats why they were ranked no. 1 in the nation longer than any other team in the country.

Back to the point, Utah beat a top 5 team in the nation with one of the worst schedules in the nation. Dont have such a narrow focus. Schedule helps, but in a playoff system like high school hockey, to say that Schedule defines you is ridiculous.

When talking about rankings and where teams should be ranked, the schedule of the teams that we are ranking is all we have to go by. The glorious playoff system does us no good since it doesn't start for another month.

hshckfan08 · Post by **hshckfan08** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:30 pm

deacon wrote:
hshckfan08 wrote:The president reference was in response to you saying that they were undefeated and still werent national champions. You just pointed out the flaw in the BCS which everyone knows. If there was a playoff, despite their weak schedule they obviously could have competed and won the national championship. That is my point.

"No one thought Alabama was the best team in the country before they played Utah"
yup. Thats why they were ranked no. 1 in the nation longer than any other team in the country.

Back to the point, Utah beat a top 5 team in the nation with one of the worst schedules in the nation. Dont have such a narrow focus. Schedule helps, but in a playoff system like high school hockey, to say that Schedule defines you is ridiculous.
When talking about rankings and where teams should be ranked, the schedule of the teams that we are ranking is all we have to go by. The glorious playoff system does us no good since it doesn't start for another month.

I'm not talking about rankings. Maybe you should join hockeywatcher at sylvan. Schedule doesnt define you. Comprende?

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:37 pm

Other than head to head games, everything else becomes subjective.
And head to head looses its appeal after time, especially when Team A beats Team B and loses to Team C after Team B beats Team C.

Winning is what is important.
How you win and against whom is secondary.

How you lose, not so much.

But unless you are throwing a computer caluclation at it, it is subjective.
And that is a folly because all the computer knows is the numbers that you input.

SUBJECTIVE -
No one can convince St Cloud Cathedral is better than Warroad.
Immediately after the game, yes.
But not today.

Stealth · Post by **Stealth** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:44 pm

This weeks USHSHO "A" Rankings.
RANK TEAM ................................................ W L T >4 GmPerf Sched
1,St Thomas Academy,MN,_______________ 16-4-1, - 3 - 1.6, - 11.6,
2,Warroad,MN,_________________________ 20-2-0, - 3 - 2.4, - 10.7,
3,Hermantown,MN,______________________ 19-2-0, - 5 - 2.4, - 10.6,
4,Breck,MN,____________________________ 17-3-1, - 6 - 2.0, - 10.6
5,Little Falls,MN,________________________ 20-0-0, - 6 - 2.8, - 9.8,
6,St Cloud Cathedral,MN,_________________ 18-2-1,- 6 - 1.9, - 10.5,

Elvis · Post by **Elvis** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:45 pm

Won't Little Falls have to beat Alex just to get to the state tournament again? They'll have a tough game or two in Sections, but I think they're the #1 team until somebody beats them. It's very possible that they get the #1 seed if they make it to State, and will get a good chance to prove themselves against one of the unseeded teams. Could be seeded like this:

Little Falls
Warroad
St. Thomas/SSP
Breck

Leaving some tough teams yet to play: Lourdes/Red Wing/New Prague/Albert Lea, Hermantown/SCC/Denfeld, Hibbing/Marshall/Virginia/I Falls.

The 3A team may be overmatched by whoever they play, but anything can happen. This will turn out to be a great tournament, and we'll see who the best team really is. Until Little Falls loses though, they have to be 1st in the rankings.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:47 pm

Elvis wrote:Won't Little Falls have to beat Alex just to get to the state tournament again? They'll have a tough game or two in Sections, but I think they're the #1 team until somebody beats them. It's very possible that they get the #1 seed if they make it to State, and will get a good chance to prove themselves against one of the unseeded teams. Could be seeded like this:

Little Falls
Warroad
St. Thomas/SSP
Breck

Leaving some tough teams yet to play: Lourdes/Red Wing/New Prague/Albert Lea, Hermantown/SCC/Denfeld, Hibbing/Marshall/Virginia/I Falls.

The 3A team may be overmatched by whoever they play, but anything can happen. This will turn out to be a great tournament, and we'll see who the best team really is. Until Little Falls loses though, they have to be 1st in the rankings.

See, Elvis has it right, subjective....

this is what he thinks....

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:53 pm

scoreboard33,
what if you are the 11th best team and in 20 games you have played the teams 1-10 and 11-21 (yeah, not practical, I know) and you are 10-10? You are losing to the teams better than you and beating the teams worse than you. Elk River isn't that exactly, but close. They play 7 of the top 10 teams and competed with all of them, which means they shouldn't be as high as them. But who's to say they aren't right below them?

Braham's 2005-2006 schedule:
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/teamsch ... 1&tid=2834
They played in the Bethel tournament, Mpls Henry, DeLaSalle and at the Pepsi Shootout. Outside of those 6 games (so I was off by 2) all the teams on their schedule are currently on their schedule.
Only AAAA teams were Mpls South and EP. De was AA at the time.
I have all the respect in the world for what they did when they had the Dahlman brother, I think more hockey teams should do it, but they simply didn't play many top teams. That being said, the ones they did play they did well against, including out of state teams like Compton.

southernmnscout · Post by **southernmnscout** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:03 pm

HShockeywatcher wrote:scoreboard33,
what if you are the 11th best team and in 20 games you have played the teams 1-10 and 11-21 (yeah, not practical, I know) and you are 10-10? You are losing to the teams better than you and beating the teams worse than you. Elk River isn't that exactly, but close. They play 7 of the top 10 teams and competed with all of them, which means they shouldn't be as high as them. But who's to say they aren't right below them?

Braham's 2005-2006 schedule:
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/teamsch ... 1&tid=2834
They played in the Bethel tournament, Mpls Henry, DeLaSalle and at the Pepsi Shootout. Outside of those 6 games (so I was off by 2) all the teams on their schedule are currently on their schedule.
Only AAAA teams were Mpls South and EP. De was AA at the time.
I have all the respect in the world for what they did when they had the Dahlman brother, I think more hockey teams should do it, but they simply didn't play many top teams. That being said, the ones they did play they did well against, including out of state teams like Compton.

Why are you even talking about Basketball or anything else for that matter? How many times have you said "end of story" only to see you continue to post the same thing over and over? No one will let it go if you keep adding your two cents non-stop!

LET IT GO!!!!!!

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:59 pm

why didn't you make a rude post targeted toward hshckfan08 about football? They're called analogies. He made a comment, I responded. Respectful discussion between two posters. I know it's a foreign concept for many, but that's what it is.

power92 · Post by **power92** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:08 pm

southernmnscout wrote:
HShockeywatcher wrote:scoreboard33,
what if you are the 11th best team and in 20 games you have played the teams 1-10 and 11-21 (yeah, not practical, I know) and you are 10-10? You are losing to the teams better than you and beating the teams worse than you. Elk River isn't that exactly, but close. They play 7 of the top 10 teams and competed with all of them, which means they shouldn't be as high as them. But who's to say they aren't right below them?

Braham's 2005-2006 schedule:
http://www.minnesota-scores.net/teamsch ... 1&tid=2834
They played in the Bethel tournament, Mpls Henry, DeLaSalle and at the Pepsi Shootout. Outside of those 6 games (so I was off by 2) all the teams on their schedule are currently on their schedule.
Only AAAA teams were Mpls South and EP. De was AA at the time.
I have all the respect in the world for what they did when they had the Dahlman brother, I think more hockey teams should do it, but they simply didn't play many top teams. That being said, the ones they did play they did well against, including out of state teams like Compton.

Why are you even talking about Basketball or anything else for that matter? How many times have you said "end of story" only to see you continue to post the same thing over and over? No one will let it go if you keep adding your two cents non-stop!

LET IT GO!!!!!!

Take a deep breath......and just ignore her. A bunch of us did this last year and it seemed work. Otherwise you will go CRAZY!!!!!

Weak Crotcher rebuttle to follow...........

theblandyman · Post by **theblandyman** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:59 pm

power92 wrote: Take a deep breath......and just ignore her. A bunch of us did this last year and it seemed work. Otherwise you will go CRAZY!!!!!
Weak Crotcher rebuttle to follow...........

hahaha...so true. Don't bother reading her comments, they are all equally stupid.