I'm sure this has been discussed on the bored previously but, I for one would think going to a delayed offsides starting at PeeWee would make sense. Besides helping the flow of the game, a key issue this would address is the game time limits. For our PeeWee B games, more than 1/2 the games are not finished in the 60 minute limit. Assuming a few less stopages of play using delayed offsides would help that issue.
It's not reasonable to expect lengthening the game time to 65 minutes.
Thoughts?
Delayed Offsides
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Re: Delayed Offsides
We play 3 periods of 17 minute stop time for pee-wees & bantams (A & B). With a resurface after the second period.Garth wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed on the bored previously but, I for one would think going to a delayed offsides starting at PeeWee would make sense. Besides helping the flow of the game, a key issue this would address is the game time limits. For our PeeWee B games, more than 1/2 the games are not finished in the 60 minute limit. Assuming a few less stopages of play using delayed offsides would help that issue.
It's not reasonable to expect lengthening the game time to 65 minutes.
Thoughts?
Girls 12 & 14 & squirts play 15 minute stop time.
But I know what you are saying.
It is on the table at USA Hockey at thier summer meeting - rule changes.
So it may be changed. I don't think it will but one never knows.
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inthestands
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The claim is that it is too easy for kids to just dump the puck back in and doesn't teach them puck control.
The problem with that position is that most of the off sides are just off by a fraction of a second where a kid is trying to make a play, miss times it as someone is almost back out of the zone, and we have to stop the game for it....Dumb!
We should have delayed off sides. The flow would be much better and the games would be able to be finished. We might even be able to lengthen the periods by a minute or 2. The kids would get more playing time and that would make them better players rather than waiting for the ref to retrieve the puck and drop it again. A waste of ice time.
The problem with that position is that most of the off sides are just off by a fraction of a second where a kid is trying to make a play, miss times it as someone is almost back out of the zone, and we have to stop the game for it....Dumb!
We should have delayed off sides. The flow would be much better and the games would be able to be finished. We might even be able to lengthen the periods by a minute or 2. The kids would get more playing time and that would make them better players rather than waiting for the ref to retrieve the puck and drop it again. A waste of ice time.
Offsides is called so that no offensive player beats the puck into the zone allowing an advantage to that team. Delayed offsides/touchup rule has the same results only the game flows so much more. Kids still have to learn puck control in order for offsides not to be called.......as skaters get older, guess what, they HAVE to dump the puck because of the physical play of the game, ie kids can't skate the puck from end to end, on the whole, no matter how good they are.........
Elliott:
Would VERY MUCH like to see this rule changed if at all possible.
Thank you so much for all your efforts on behalf of us rebels!!
Elliott:
Would VERY MUCH like to see this rule changed if at all possible.
Thank you so much for all your efforts on behalf of us rebels!!
The best way to make the change is to get a largte number of people to email or write to the chair and members of the rules committee at USAH.nahc wrote:Offsides is called so that no offensive player beats the puck into the zone allowing an advantage to that team. Delayed offsides/touchup rule has the same results only the game flows so much more. Kids still have to learn puck control in order for offsides not to be called.......as skaters get older, guess what, they HAVE to dump the puck because of the physical play of the game, ie kids can't skate the puck from end to end, on the whole, no matter how good they are.........
Elliott:
Would VERY MUCH like to see this rule changed if at all possible.
Thank you so much for all your efforts on behalf of us rebels!!
It can be found at USAH web page.
MH has no control over this. We managed to get it changed for Jr Gold but only a provisional change until this summer's meeting.
this is ridiculous u guys want to have delayed offsides?
How is that developing skill by just throwing the puck to the other team carelessly. you can wait for high school for delayed offsides. In youth hockey ur supposed to develop skill for high school hockey. This would decrease the skill of Minnesota youth hockey players if we had delayed offsides
How is that developing skill by just throwing the puck to the other team carelessly. you can wait for high school for delayed offsides. In youth hockey ur supposed to develop skill for high school hockey. This would decrease the skill of Minnesota youth hockey players if we had delayed offsides
Re: Delayed Offsides
When delayed offsides was allowed, a lot of times you could just stop a breakout at neutral, throw it in the zone, tag up and go....untill the other team tried to skate it out then it would go again.Garth wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed on the bored previously but, I for one would think going to a delayed offsides starting at PeeWee would make sense. Besides helping the flow of the game, a key issue this would address is the game time limits. For our PeeWee B games, more than 1/2 the games are not finished in the 60 minute limit. Assuming a few less stopages of play using delayed offsides would help that issue.
It's not reasonable to expect lengthening the game time to 65 minutes.
Thoughts?
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Marty McSorely
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- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:01 am
Idea
I like the idea but it would the ref's be able to keep up with it? Some places they have a hard enough time making the call now!
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muckandgrind
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3GoonsWest
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I completely agree that there should be delayed offsides....at the very least at the Bantam level. I can't think of any valid reason against it.[quote]
I can. How about having defensemen that can control the puck and find an out. Delayed offsides creates lazy defensemen with no hands at the youth level.
I can. How about having defensemen that can control the puck and find an out. Delayed offsides creates lazy defensemen with no hands at the youth level.
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muckandgrind
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3GoonsWest wrote:I completely agree that there should be delayed offsides....at the very least at the Bantam level. I can't think of any valid reason against it.Completely disagree. Delayed offsides creates for more of a flow in the game that would otherwise be continually interrupted with blown whistles and face-offs. We see delayed offsides in use during offseason AAA hockey tournaments and don't see blueliners become "lazy" as you claim.
I can. How about having defensemen that can control the puck and find an out. Delayed offsides creates lazy defensemen with no hands at the youth level.
I suppose, based on your rationale, you would advocate getting rid of delayed OS in HS, College and Pro levels as well, huh?
Remember a key part of my original point, short of moving our chunk of the metro area up to district 16, we have a stinking one hour to get in a game. It drives one crazy to see all the stopages of play. Blown whisle, ref retrieves the puck, line changes, the refs make sure that everyone is lined up perfectly, finally drop the puck.
If we could add a minute or two a period to the game clock or at least get in our measly 12 minutes a period, that would be a plus.
Hey, I'm all for the defensemen learning how to handle the puck with the pressure to hold on until everyone is back, but you have to be realistic to the game time limitations.
If we could add a minute or two a period to the game clock or at least get in our measly 12 minutes a period, that would be a plus.
Hey, I'm all for the defensemen learning how to handle the puck with the pressure to hold on until everyone is back, but you have to be realistic to the game time limitations.
I just had this discussion at a mite practice this weekend. They are just beginning to call offsides and one of the moms complained to me about how many times the coaches called it in a scrimmage last week. I told her to get used to it because it my experience it won't go away as her child ages. (and I told her the 8 year olds need to learn it for squirts)There are always one or two kids on a team that are good for a couple of offsides a game, no matter how often they are taught it. For that reason alone I think it's a good rule because it forces kids to learn to know where everyone else is on the ice. It isn't so bad, because as was mentioned on another thread, the refs rarely call an intentional off-sides.
As a spectator I prefer tag up offsides, the kids and the refs seem to get a handle on it pretty quickly by the end of April (most offseason leagues use it) so I don't really think that would be a problem in changing it, and I have to admit to some nerves when it's my Defensive son handling the puck, but I can certainly see the development side of the argument.
As a spectator I prefer tag up offsides, the kids and the refs seem to get a handle on it pretty quickly by the end of April (most offseason leagues use it) so I don't really think that would be a problem in changing it, and I have to admit to some nerves when it's my Defensive son handling the puck, but I can certainly see the development side of the argument.
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3GoonsWest
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M&G -Nope, I completely agree that at the HS level and above D.O. improves the flow and speed of the game. I could also see it being a good thing for improving the speed and flow at the bantam level, but if a squirt team is constantly running out of time, the practice plan for that coach just got easier. Comparing AAA to association hockey, for the most part, is like comparing apples to oranges. The majority of the associations in the state, unfortunately, don't have entire teams comprised of AAA players. AAA games should be higher caliber and speed, that's why there are no elite "B" leagues in the summer. The younger levels need to learn the game. I also don't think the nature of the game should be changed because of an easy administrative (scheduling) fix. Correct the problem instead of re-arranging the symptoms.
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spin-o-rama
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Garth, is the concern getting the clock down to zero before the hour is up? Then just have a running clock. You can play a 60 minute game in the hour block. I don't think that is the solution you want.
The NFL wanted to keep the games from lasting so long, so they changed the rules to keep the clock running more. The real problem was the increased commercial breaks and duration. The change didn't result in more football. You now get fewer plays per 60 minute game.
I think delayed offsides is akin to the NFL solution. Sure it will keep the clock moving, but more "real" hockey is not being played. How many scoring chances are there when a team has the puck in their own zone and the opposing team is not allowed to touch the puck? Uncontested breakouts are fine for practice, but don't qualify as game action.
Maybe the 36 game minutes can be played in a 1 hour block with delayed offsides, but how much more "real" hockey will be realized?
The NFL wanted to keep the games from lasting so long, so they changed the rules to keep the clock running more. The real problem was the increased commercial breaks and duration. The change didn't result in more football. You now get fewer plays per 60 minute game.
I think delayed offsides is akin to the NFL solution. Sure it will keep the clock moving, but more "real" hockey is not being played. How many scoring chances are there when a team has the puck in their own zone and the opposing team is not allowed to touch the puck? Uncontested breakouts are fine for practice, but don't qualify as game action.
Maybe the 36 game minutes can be played in a 1 hour block with delayed offsides, but how much more "real" hockey will be realized?
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muckandgrind
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That's all I'm saying. I'm alright with keeping the rule the way it is at the lower levels, even the Bantam lower levels...but, IMO, the Bantam A level should have the delayed offsides rule.3GoonsWest wrote:M&G -Nope, I completely agree that at the HS level and above D.O. improves the flow and speed of the game. I could also see it being a good thing for improving the speed and flow at the bantam level, but if a squirt team is constantly running out of time, the practice plan for that coach just got easier. Comparing AAA to association hockey, for the most part, is like comparing apples to oranges. The majority of the associations in the state, unfortunately, don't have entire teams comprised of AAA players. AAA games should be higher caliber and speed, that's why there are no elite "B" leagues in the summer. The younger levels need to learn the game. I also don't think the nature of the game should be changed because of an easy administrative (scheduling) fix. Correct the problem instead of re-arranging the symptoms.
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3GoonsWest
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3 G W
The reason you don't hear "control the puck" higher than squirt level is that you can't stickhandle for more than a second or two without the need to give up the puck. MANY times the best play is to dump the puck into the offensive zone and send in the forecheckers. No matter how good the team is, a player or two will cough up the puck and provide a scoring opportunity. Let the game flow.........touch up/delayed offsides is something that needs to be implemented at all levels above squirts.....
The reason you don't hear "control the puck" higher than squirt level is that you can't stickhandle for more than a second or two without the need to give up the puck. MANY times the best play is to dump the puck into the offensive zone and send in the forecheckers. No matter how good the team is, a player or two will cough up the puck and provide a scoring opportunity. Let the game flow.........touch up/delayed offsides is something that needs to be implemented at all levels above squirts.....
The concern is getting more hockey in during the 60 minutes and helping the flow of the game. I don't think delayed offsides is drastically changing the nature of the game being that is where the players are eventually heading (high school) anyway.spin-o-rama wrote:Garth, is the concern getting the clock down to zero before the hour is up? Then just have a running clock. You can play a 60 minute game in the hour block. I don't think that is the solution you want.
The NFL wanted to keep the games from lasting so long, so they changed the rules to keep the clock running more. The real problem was the increased commercial breaks and duration. The change didn't result in more football. You now get fewer plays per 60 minute game.
I think delayed offsides is akin to the NFL solution. Sure it will keep the clock moving, but more "real" hockey is not being played. How many scoring chances are there when a team has the puck in their own zone and the opposing team is not allowed to touch the puck? Uncontested breakouts are fine for practice, but don't qualify as game action.
Maybe the 36 game minutes can be played in a 1 hour block with delayed offsides, but how much more "real" hockey will be realized?
Elliot -- most cases the players aren't intentionally going off-sides; they still can and should be coached to try to retain possession so they don't have to give the puck up.
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rogershockey
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I think a key here in youth hockey is that there would be a difference between playing delayed off sides vs the tag up rule.
I'd love to see the delayed offsides implemented. That means that if the puck crosses the blue line, but is never touched by the offensive, off sides player, and is then cleared from the Zone by the defensive player, there would be no stoppage. So if the puck comes into the zone by 2 inches, but is right on the defending teams stick and is promptly carried out of the zone, then play continues. I don't think teams would be dumping it in, if they couldn't touch the puck again until it cleared the zone. You'd be giving possesion and control to the other team with no chance of creating a scoring chance.
This is much different than the tag up style of play, where teams dump the puck in and then try and create a turnover to create their scoring chances.
I'd love to see the delayed offsides implemented. That means that if the puck crosses the blue line, but is never touched by the offensive, off sides player, and is then cleared from the Zone by the defensive player, there would be no stoppage. So if the puck comes into the zone by 2 inches, but is right on the defending teams stick and is promptly carried out of the zone, then play continues. I don't think teams would be dumping it in, if they couldn't touch the puck again until it cleared the zone. You'd be giving possesion and control to the other team with no chance of creating a scoring chance.
This is much different than the tag up style of play, where teams dump the puck in and then try and create a turnover to create their scoring chances.
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mplsparkpride7
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Dumbest post ever.ls stars9 wrote:this is ridiculous u guys want to have delayed offsides?
How is that developing skill by just throwing the puck to the other team carelessly. you can wait for high school for delayed offsides. In youth hockey ur supposed to develop skill for high school hockey. This would decrease the skill of Minnesota youth hockey players if we had delayed offsides
Dump and chase is a skill, teams that employ it can be very successfull, Roseau won a state tournament in 2007 using it. It may not be pretty but it can be very effective. A worse form of hockey is where you continually turn the puck over at the blueline because the team just traps you in the neutral zone. Eventually you run into good enough coaching and good enough skills that you can no longer just carry or pass your way into the offensive zone, no matter what your USA handbook tells you.