Public Schools

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:42 pm

Turning this from a hockey thread to an education thread, hmmm...

a1puck,
one big reason for that is only having two options. That is the issue with many polls in society, having only certain options when you don't want to pick one of those.

MedleyWR, two comments to your post.
1. MN's "great" education, in my opinion, is a little misleading. MN is at the top of all the scales of the US's education every year (top 3), but this is a relative comparison. There are Mpls schools (probably St Paul and other surrounding areas too) that graduate about 1/3 of their starting freshman every year. So while Albert Lea, Bemidji and Edina (random examples) may be graduating 90+%, the state on a whole is not very high. With MN being as low as it is, but so high relatively, is a sad reality about the country as a whole.

2. I have never liked the school vouchers idea. Here's my explanation: You take all your inner city kids at Mpls and StP schools who "want a better" education and they move to Wayzata, Edina, Minnetonka, Mahtomedi, etc, etc. Well, what does this do? Two things. a. overloading suburban schools, some that may already be overloaded. b. brings down education down even further. My solution in a nut shell: Find some way to improve the worst of our education systems.

I find it interesting on a hockey forum where most people criticize those who leave failing teams for better opportunities someone would actually suggest that as a good idea. Unlike hockey, education is (or should be) about giving everyone an equal opportunity. If we leave the failing programs we hurt them even more and help the succeeding ones even more.

SPUDNUT · Post by **SPUDNUT** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:15 pm

scorinallnight wrote:Do you think that every player should stay in their hometown to play on their public school team?

My son & his family just moved to Moorhead from Inver Grove Heights. Using your logic, if their boys wanna play hockey, they gotta bus 'em to Simley (God forbid) ?

buzzershot · Post by **buzzershot** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:51 am

Chances are most kids who are attending private schools are there because their parents see a better opportunity for their kid at the private school in the sport they excel in or for that prep school education that looks great on a college ap. The choice is always to benifit the kid not to screw the town the live in.

Goldy Gopher · Post by **Goldy Gopher** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:33 pm

If you're going to a college that's good enough to care where you went to high school, you're going to need to do a lot more than just go to a private school to get in.

No colleges really care where you go to high school. It's what you do while you're in high school that they care about and look at.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:24 pm

"No colleges really care where you go to high school. It's what you do while you're in high school that they care about and look at."

Yes and no. Colleges (like their sports teams) weigh what you did with where you did it. I'm not implying any type of school is better than another, just that saying no colleges care where you went to high school isn't quite right.

Slap Shot · Post by **Slap Shot** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:38 pm

jancze5 wrote:Have any you guys who come on here and want to "private bash" in regards to sports, ever considered that parents send their kids to private schools for reasons other than the chance they will play Varsity Hockey there?

Given the type of quality education you can get at schools such as Edina, Wayzata, EP, Minnetonka and the like, no.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:55 pm

Slap shot, not everyone lives at those places. And even though they are better communities and have overall better education, they won't have the same class sizes you will get from a lot of private schools.

One reason lots of parents will send one of their children to a certain private school is to help with learning disabilities. For many, the class sizes are a big enough issue they are willing to pay for it. That, if you are unaware, is a serious problem in many of our public schools.

Slap Shot · Post by **Slap Shot** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:18 pm

HShockeywatcher wrote:Slap shot, not everyone lives at those places.

Yes, which is why 'those places' don't apply to my comment.

And while I buy the smaller class size and learning disability angle for some of these kids, there are a good number of kids going for the state tournament berth as much as for the education if not more.

However my comment was mostly tongue-in-cheek - I don't begrudge anyone going after a solid education and one need only look at the Hopkins' starting basketball lineup to see that it's not just the private schools getting their pick of the litter.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:54 pm

While I won't bring this further, you don't really think private schools fill their seats with only "kids going for the state tournament berth"? They just happen to be a part of it. Additionally, the state berth isn't it at some places. One thing with a lot of schools, like Marshall, is having a rink on campus. Just another angle.

Your second comment is what so many people need to understand. If you live in Fridley and are good at football, who wouldn't go to TG if they could? Good at baseball and live in St Paul, go to Cretin? Etc. etc. Hopkins is a great example.

Hockeyguy_27 · Post by **Hockeyguy_27** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:22 pm

elliott70 wrote:Just let the kids play.

I went to a public a school, my kids went to a public school, my grand-kids are going to public schools, I cheer for a public school....

...but I don't care where another kid wants to go to school.

Open enrollment and kids moving around has always happened and it always will. Some years the private schools will be better, some years the Roseau's of the world will be better, and lots of times the Edina's of the world will be the best. Big deal.... just do your best with what you have...
five years after the kids graduate you (and me) will remember and talk about the good times, the almost upset of Moorhead, making it to section finals....

...take care of your own house, the neighborhood will be just fine.

Truer words have not been spoken! I'm a former public school guy and think it is great people have a choice of where to send their kids. Have some rules been broken, probably, but if the Democrats here got their way and passed their "Screw Private School Stimulus Package" thereby aboloshing private schools and forcing them to play in their own state tournament, high school hockey would suffer and no future high school players would know what it felt like to beat Hill Murray! and not too many things feel better than this

Post by **karl(east)** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:52 pm

Hockeyguy_27 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:Just let the kids play.

I went to a public a school, my kids went to a public school, my grand-kids are going to public schools, I cheer for a public school....

...but I don't care where another kid wants to go to school.

Open enrollment and kids moving around has always happened and it always will. Some years the private schools will be better, some years the Roseau's of the world will be better, and lots of times the Edina's of the world will be the best. Big deal.... just do your best with what you have...
five years after the kids graduate you (and me) will remember and talk about the good times, the almost upset of Moorhead, making it to section finals....

...take care of your own house, the neighborhood will be just fine.
Truer words have not been spoken! I'm a former public school guy and think it is great people have a choice of where to send their kids. Have some rules been broken, probably, but if the Democrats here got their way and passed their "Screw Private School Stimulus Package" thereby aboloshing private schools and forcing them to play in their own state tournament, high school hockey would suffer and no future high school players would know what it felt like to beat Hill Murray! and not too many things feel better than this

The suggestion that such a stance would be taken by a political party is more than a bit ridicuolus.

Let's keep politics off the bored.

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:22 pm

Hockeyguy_27 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:Just let the kids play.

I went to a public a school, my kids went to a public school, my grand-kids are going to public schools, I cheer for a public school....

...but I don't care where another kid wants to go to school.

Open enrollment and kids moving around has always happened and it always will. Some years the private schools will be better, some years the Roseau's of the world will be better, and lots of times the Edina's of the world will be the best. Big deal.... just do your best with what you have...
five years after the kids graduate you (and me) will remember and talk about the good times, the almost upset of Moorhead, making it to section finals....

...take care of your own house, the neighborhood will be just fine.
Truer words have not been spoken! I'm a former public school guy and think it is great people have a choice of where to send their kids. Have some rules been broken, probably, but if the Democrats here got their way and passed their "Screw Private School Stimulus Package" thereby aboloshing private schools and forcing them to play in their own state tournament, high school hockey would suffer and no future high school players would know what it felt like to beat Hill Murray! and not too many things feel better than this

I guess i couldnt agree anymore, but I havent experienced beating Hill in years since WB hasnt won in a few...but anyways. What about the kids that go to a private middle school and purposly get held back another year so they are prepared to play at the highschool level in another year

Its happened...and I think its rediculous and cheating the system. but hey, what can you do

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:23 pm

Hockeyguy_27 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:Just let the kids play.

I went to a public a school, my kids went to a public school, my grand-kids are going to public schools, I cheer for a public school....

...but I don't care where another kid wants to go to school.

Open enrollment and kids moving around has always happened and it always will. Some years the private schools will be better, some years the Roseau's of the world will be better, and lots of times the Edina's of the world will be the best. Big deal.... just do your best with what you have...
five years after the kids graduate you (and me) will remember and talk about the good times, the almost upset of Moorhead, making it to section finals....

...take care of your own house, the neighborhood will be just fine.
Truer words have not been spoken! I'm a former public school guy and think it is great people have a choice of where to send their kids. Have some rules been broken, probably, but if the Democrats here got their way and passed their "Screw Private School Stimulus Package" thereby aboloshing private schools and forcing them to play in their own state tournament, high school hockey would suffer and no future high school players would know what it felt like to beat Hill Murray! and not too many things feel better than this

I guess i couldnt agree anymore, but I havent experienced beating Hill in years since WB hasnt won in a few...but anyways. What about the kids that go to a private middle school and purposly get held back another year so they are prepared to play at the highschool level in another year

Its happened...and I think its rediculous and cheating the system. but hey, what can you do

blanco oso · Post by **blanco oso** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:24 pm

Hockeyguy_27 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:Just let the kids play.

I went to a public a school, my kids went to a public school, my grand-kids are going to public schools, I cheer for a public school....

...but I don't care where another kid wants to go to school.

Open enrollment and kids moving around has always happened and it always will. Some years the private schools will be better, some years the Roseau's of the world will be better, and lots of times the Edina's of the world will be the best. Big deal.... just do your best with what you have...
five years after the kids graduate you (and me) will remember and talk about the good times, the almost upset of Moorhead, making it to section finals....

...take care of your own house, the neighborhood will be just fine.
Truer words have not been spoken! I'm a former public school guy and think it is great people have a choice of where to send their kids. Have some rules been broken, probably, but if the Democrats here got their way and passed their "Screw Private School Stimulus Package" thereby aboloshing private schools and forcing them to play in their own state tournament, high school hockey would suffer and no future high school players would know what it felt like to beat Hill Murray! and not too many things feel better than this

I guess i couldnt agree anymore, but I havent experienced beating Hill in years since WB hasnt won in a few...but anyways. What about the kids that go to a private middle school and purposly get held back another year so they are prepared to play at the highschool level in another year

Its happened...and I think its rediculous and cheating the system. but hey, what can you do

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:54 pm

You're worried about one isolated incident of some kid staying back one year to get a little better? Has little to do with private/public. The one thing is does have to do with though, which is an issue with our public schools, is that private schools will fail and not pass their kids along to the next grade, whereas many public school systems will fail but still pass on their kids to the next grade.

I forgot, it's all about hockey, not anything outside of hockey

wbhockey02 · Post by **wbhockey02** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:19 pm

packerpuck19 wrote:There is one way to find that out, and that is to put all of the Private schools in the same section. I would love to see the first 2 or 3 years of that. It would be a great section Tournment, but I would guarentee that all of the private schools talent would drop dramatically. I would love to see this for all sports as well. These private schools should be there for if you want your child to get a better education, and not a ticket to the state tournment, in any sport...... You name a sport, and there is a powerhouse private school in that sport.

As for hockey, I can honestly say that making it to the state tournment just wouldnt mean as much to me personally if it wasnt with the kids that I grew up playing with. It would be like going to Canada with a AAA team or something. Thats what puts High School Hockey on such a pedistool here in MN.

I know numerous people that have turned down Job opportunities in another town, just so there kid can play hockey with his buddies through High School. Shouldnt have started this thread, now Im all pissed off.

Amen to that I agree with you 100 percent

chiefofmedicine · Post by **chiefofmedicine** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:59 pm

are you, you being packerpuck and wb, saying that Private schools are completely compiled of kids who have never played with eachother before? that might be the dumbest thing i have ever heard. Public schools are powerhouses in sports too, all you public school babies need to get over it. This thread never should have been started, its been overdone so much, get over it.

Post by **karl(east)** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:57 pm

wbhockey02 wrote:
packerpuck19 wrote:There is one way to find that out, and that is to put all of the Private schools in the same section. I would love to see the first 2 or 3 years of that. It would be a great section Tournment, but I would guarentee that all of the private schools talent would drop dramatically. I would love to see this for all sports as well. These private schools should be there for if you want your child to get a better education, and not a ticket to the state tournment, in any sport...... You name a sport, and there is a powerhouse private school in that sport.

As for hockey, I can honestly say that making it to the state tournment just wouldnt mean as much to me personally if it wasnt with the kids that I grew up playing with. It would be like going to Canada with a AAA team or something. Thats what puts High School Hockey on such a pedistool here in MN.

I know numerous people that have turned down Job opportunities in another town, just so there kid can play hockey with his buddies through High School. Shouldnt have started this thread, now Im all pissed off.
Amen to that I agree with you 100 percent

How many times does this have to be spelled out?

Putting all the private schools in one section would KILL MN HS hockey. They'd never agree, and suddenly we'd have seven Shattuck-like situations. They'd leave the MSHSL and, no longer bound by its guidelines, would recruit away as much as they wanted.

The odds of a private school making the AA tournament this year are a bit low. CDH and Benilde are down, AHA would have to go through 2 incredibly good teams, and Hill is in a very odd situation.

Learn to enjoy the rivalry and leave it at that.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:09 pm

I think it's interesting how most of the hatred is one sided. I've met so many people over the years who once they find out where I went to school, start talking the school down because it's private and they must recruit. It has nothing to do with specifics, it's just what everyone seems to hear. Chants at games are all in good fun, and after the game is over, you go home and hang out with your public schooled friends.

When parents choose to send their children to a private school in a community of people who send their kids to public schools, it is looked down on often. It is a very interesting how no one thinks about how having the private schools directly affects their schools and communities.

chiefofmedicine, while these thread usually never lead anywhere, there are usually productive posts, as there have been in this one. Within the last month we have made history, it would be nice if we could move forward instead of backward.

Hockeyguy_27 · Post by **Hockeyguy_27** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:20 pm

karl(east) wrote:
Hockeyguy_27 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:Just let the kids play.

I went to a public a school, my kids went to a public school, my grand-kids are going to public schools, I cheer for a public school....

...but I don't care where another kid wants to go to school.

Open enrollment and kids moving around has always happened and it always will. Some years the private schools will be better, some years the Roseau's of the world will be better, and lots of times the Edina's of the world will be the best. Big deal.... just do your best with what you have...
five years after the kids graduate you (and me) will remember and talk about the good times, the almost upset of Moorhead, making it to section finals....

...take care of your own house, the neighborhood will be just fine.
Truer words have not been spoken! I'm a former public school guy and think it is great people have a choice of where to send their kids. Have some rules been broken, probably, but if the Democrats here got their way and passed their "Screw Private School Stimulus Package" thereby aboloshing private schools and forcing them to play in their own state tournament, high school hockey would suffer and no future high school players would know what it felt like to beat Hill Murray! and not too many things feel better than this
The suggestion that such a stance would be taken by a political party is more than a bit ridicuolus.

Let's keep politics off the bored.

\

Karl, you take things a bit too seriously, chill out and laugh a little.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:00 am

Hockeyguy_27, you're entitled to your opinion, but I (along with Karl and others) would say this is a very serious topic. It has to do with the well fair of our society's children. The issue is that many don't take it seriously. We have a problem in our society that needs to be fixed and instead of coming together to discuss it on here all we can do is fight and become even more divided? You don't see anything wrong with that?

cody53193 · Post by **cody53193** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:36 pm

I don't really mind private schools but I don't like when (for example) 9th graders at Hill-Murray are playing on the Tartan A Bantams. I think if they arn't going to go to Tartan or are attending another school at the time they shouldn't play with the local programs. This happens all over, but these two schools i know better than others.

Also, Ryan Furne played his Freshmen and Sophomore year in the State Tournament in 2004 and 2005 with Tartan. Then when all of that talent left he went straight to Hill-Murray. Thats what i dont like.

hockeyboys · Post by **hockeyboys** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:56 pm

Associations are not affiliated with local high schools. There is absolutely no connection whatsover, except MN hockey has designated the boundaries of Association Hockey in MN to roughly match that of the public school system.

To think that players should be excluded by an associaiton because they don't go to the public school in which they are forced to play by MN hockey is absolutely silly.

Which association do you think these players should play in??? or do you just think that Association hockey is only for public school kids and anyone going to a private school should be excluded from hockey all together??? How about those kids that have open enrolled in 9th grade at a different public school than the one in which they should be going to? should they be allowed to play with their local association?

keepmeoutofit · Post by **keepmeoutofit** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:48 pm

blanco oso wrote:
Hockeyguy_27 wrote:
elliott70 wrote:Just let the kids play.

...but anyways. What about the kids that go to a private middle school and purposly get held back another year so they are prepared to play at the highschool level in another year

Its happened...and I think its rediculous and cheating the system. but hey, what can you do

plenty of parents hold their kids back before they ever go to kindergarten. its the same thing.

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:25 am

I tried to stay out of this as much as I could.
I went to private school and did so for all 12 years. A lot of these private school kids do the same. I know you are saying "zamman is nuts, he is just covering for his team". I do know this to be true. I have spoken with the kids and the parents and have seen that.
Yes maybe some of them did go to private schools just for hockey. Why not? some of those teams are pretty good.
Let me ask another question - How many of these kids on these private school teams would have made in on the public school teams? I am guessing we will never know, but a lot of these kids get their best coaching in the high school system and only some of that training at the youth level. Have you seen some of the coaches in the youth level? pretty bad.
I even know that the my Jefferson community has not the best coachs. They are at Richfield all the time.

Fact is that some of these kids go to private school for academics, sports or religion.

Why not just face the fact that this will happen and will continue to happen. Let the kids play where they are playing.

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