What are some of the reason for girls 7th/8th to move up to the HS level to play JV or Varsity?
Has it been a positive or a negative experience?
What factors have made it positive or negative?
Given the chance to do it again would you?
U12/U14 or PeeweeA/B players that had a choice to play at local HS (not all have a choice) are you happy with your decision?
Every year many girls and parents make this choice maybe this may help the next years girls and their parents. All the answers will be unique to the person that signs on. No situation is the same as the next.
7th/8th graders decisions to play HS
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, karl(east)
These are all great questions.
Reasons vary - but typically the player moving up is ready to be challenged at a higher level than is offered within her association. The high school's situation needs to be such that they are able to gain approval to allow younger players to try out - this isn't always the case.
Positives - the coaches and the players have been over the top great to her. It is a very young team overall so she fits in well. This may not be the case for some. The coaching is definitely very intense and there is a lot of pressure that I'm not sure all might have the maturity to handle.
The negatives would be the opinions voiced by those who don't agree with the decision (not on the team, of course.) But this has certainly not overshadowed the positives.
Do it again - YES!
Thanks for the opportunity to share one opinion.
**Have to add a little PS for Pens...AWESOME Bantam game Saturday! That was some fun hockey to watch!**
Reasons vary - but typically the player moving up is ready to be challenged at a higher level than is offered within her association. The high school's situation needs to be such that they are able to gain approval to allow younger players to try out - this isn't always the case.
Positives - the coaches and the players have been over the top great to her. It is a very young team overall so she fits in well. This may not be the case for some. The coaching is definitely very intense and there is a lot of pressure that I'm not sure all might have the maturity to handle.
The negatives would be the opinions voiced by those who don't agree with the decision (not on the team, of course.) But this has certainly not overshadowed the positives.
Do it again - YES!
Thanks for the opportunity to share one opinion.
**Have to add a little PS for Pens...AWESOME Bantam game Saturday! That was some fun hockey to watch!**
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royals dad
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- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:41 pm
For my daughter I think it was more that when she got her pads on she just seemed to fit better with the girls at the HS. She skated the summer with both and just really liked the game more with the older kids.
For me the coaches were the key, they have great practices, fast moving and full of fundementals. They keep grades as number one(two acedemic state titles this decade), and they are teachers.
The HS girls have been so great to my daughter, I was worried about the social aspect but so far it has been a plus. She sees the HS kids study alot, even the ones who are going D1. She texts her U12 friends all the time and we get to some of the U12 games and they get to some of hers.
The down side has been that the U12 team has struggled a bit this year, my daughter thought they would be really good and wishes she could help them out.
I think my wife and I would let her make the choice again, and I think that she would do it again in a heart beat.
For me the coaches were the key, they have great practices, fast moving and full of fundementals. They keep grades as number one(two acedemic state titles this decade), and they are teachers.
The HS girls have been so great to my daughter, I was worried about the social aspect but so far it has been a plus. She sees the HS kids study alot, even the ones who are going D1. She texts her U12 friends all the time and we get to some of the U12 games and they get to some of hers.
The down side has been that the U12 team has struggled a bit this year, my daughter thought they would be really good and wishes she could help them out.
I think my wife and I would let her make the choice again, and I think that she would do it again in a heart beat.
Hopefully girls hockey will continue to grow so that 7th and 8th graders have to wait to play HS hockey.
Our school doesn't allow 7th and 8th graders to play varsity hockey unless they are designated as an exceptional athlete. The exceptional athlete exception has never been employed. I understand that some HS haven't a choice and they need these players to fill out a team.
Here are the reasons that I think its a bad idea to let 7th and 8th graders play varsity and JV.
1. Do you really want your 12 year old hanging out with 17 and 18 year old girls in the locker room. My daughter made it as a freshman and she definitely learned more about life then I would like at 14 years old.
2. If a girl makes it as a 7th grader, I guarantee that she will be bored by her junior year. Many such girls look for other opportunities. I've noticed that many times at the HS level the younger girls are better than the older girls. I think this is because the older girls have been on the team for a long time, get bored and don't work as hard during the offseason before their senior year.
3. I think its important to grow girls hockey at all levels. Moving girls up generally waters down the talent pool at the lower levels. Many associations cannot field competitive U12A and U14A teams because their best players are playing Varsity or JV hockey.
4. What's the rush? Don't you think 4 years of HS hockey is enough? Typically its not the 12 year old making the decision, its the parent. Why not let your daughter hang out with her peers and enjoy being a leader.
Of course, the above is an ideal. There are exceptions and sometimes it is necessary to move up young players to HS to fill out a team but overall I think its better to keep HS hockey for HS girls.
Our school doesn't allow 7th and 8th graders to play varsity hockey unless they are designated as an exceptional athlete. The exceptional athlete exception has never been employed. I understand that some HS haven't a choice and they need these players to fill out a team.
Here are the reasons that I think its a bad idea to let 7th and 8th graders play varsity and JV.
1. Do you really want your 12 year old hanging out with 17 and 18 year old girls in the locker room. My daughter made it as a freshman and she definitely learned more about life then I would like at 14 years old.
2. If a girl makes it as a 7th grader, I guarantee that she will be bored by her junior year. Many such girls look for other opportunities. I've noticed that many times at the HS level the younger girls are better than the older girls. I think this is because the older girls have been on the team for a long time, get bored and don't work as hard during the offseason before their senior year.
3. I think its important to grow girls hockey at all levels. Moving girls up generally waters down the talent pool at the lower levels. Many associations cannot field competitive U12A and U14A teams because their best players are playing Varsity or JV hockey.
4. What's the rush? Don't you think 4 years of HS hockey is enough? Typically its not the 12 year old making the decision, its the parent. Why not let your daughter hang out with her peers and enjoy being a leader.
Of course, the above is an ideal. There are exceptions and sometimes it is necessary to move up young players to HS to fill out a team but overall I think its better to keep HS hockey for HS girls.
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royals dad
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- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:41 pm
I think you might be "on the edge" of sounding a little to holier than thou. If your school doesnt allow it there was not really a decision in your case.
For some players they have an opportunity and choices to make. They have coaches and players on both sides who are pushing for them to go one way or another. As a parent there is alot to consider. I think this thread was more for parents who went this way to give some of the pros and cons to other parents who are looking at next year.
IMO Coming in with a post that says "here of a list of why this is bad, even though I never went through it" maybe a bit much.
That said two things I forgot to mention, you only have another week to visit practices this year. So get out there a sit and watch how they run them every hs and jv coach is different, might make it a bad fit. Also get a schedule for JV practices, this was a huge silver lining for us, we have family dinner almost every night in hockey season!
For some players they have an opportunity and choices to make. They have coaches and players on both sides who are pushing for them to go one way or another. As a parent there is alot to consider. I think this thread was more for parents who went this way to give some of the pros and cons to other parents who are looking at next year.
IMO Coming in with a post that says "here of a list of why this is bad, even though I never went through it" maybe a bit much.
That said two things I forgot to mention, you only have another week to visit practices this year. So get out there a sit and watch how they run them every hs and jv coach is different, might make it a bad fit. Also get a schedule for JV practices, this was a huge silver lining for us, we have family dinner almost every night in hockey season!
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Silent But Deadly
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No, On The Edge is right on. Having had two daughters start HS hockey in 8th grade, I echo his comments. However, only the larger, mostly metro programs have enough players that they can avoid bringing young girls into the HS lockerroom. Reality is that many HS programs need 7th and 8th graders to fill out their team....in those situations, there really aren't alot options/choices available for these girls.royals dad wrote:I think you might be "on the edge" of sounding a little to holier than thou.
What are some of the reason for girls 7th/8th to move up to the HS level to play JV or Varsity?
- Thin Association or low HS numbers or talent coaching wise. Better coaching, development training at the HS level may be a good reason to play up.
Has it been a positive or a negative experience?
- Our daughter played HS in 8th grade for a weaker public HS program while going to a private catholic school, went to one private HS in 9th grade and then moved to where all her friends from grade school in 10th we have seen three programs here is what we have learned. In 8th grade there were also two other 8th graders on the team. She had the chance to step in and play second line or top D pair over the season which was unique - the other two 8th graders were also on the top 2 units - HS team only had 7 wins so bit of a roller coaster. The U14 team that year went to state. From a playing perspective is was great but due to other issues all three players left the team and went to other schools - 2 to other HS and 1 to Thoroughbreds.
What factors have made it positive or negative?
- I think it is was great from a hockey experience but you have to have a locker room or a coach that will work with upper class players to make it a positive socail experience. I think our daughter kind of kept quite all year except with the other two 8 graders.
Given the chance to do it again would you?
- yes as an upper class player now our daughter goes out of her way to welcome and encourage younger players - it has grown her leadership. The boredom factor we have not seen in her but it is reall kids platuae or peak at different times - if you only play hockey in the HS season this is very real. Make the cohoice that will help your daughter love the game over their lifetime - good coaching with defined values for the program and a focus on team skills is key and a recognition that captains and leadership across the whole program would be questions I would encourage a parent to ask themselves and the coaches at U12/U14 and the HS. Lots of studies on confidence top players become top players because they learn how to dominate - if they are always in the deep end of the pool they may not develop this trait which is critical to play at the next level but more importantly to have fun and positive self image and confidence.
U12/U14 or PeeweeA/B players that had a choice to play at local HS (not all have a choice) are you happy with your decision?
- yes our daughter is now at a private school 7-12 that had 55 girls go out this fall. The Varsity has 5 Sr, 5 Jr, 2 So, 6 Fr. - the JV has 1 Jr, 4 So, 7 - 9th, 2 8th, 1 7th. They have a great embracing approach across the program and JV and Varsity - have 3 good coaches for each team and do a strength and conditioning program. I think it is a great program - best our daughter has seen. So I would ask about coaching, program philosophy, and how your daughter will grow over their time there.
Every year many girls and parents make this choice maybe this may help the next years girls and their parents. All the answers will be unique to the person that signs on. No situation is the same as the next.
- Thin Association or low HS numbers or talent coaching wise. Better coaching, development training at the HS level may be a good reason to play up.
Has it been a positive or a negative experience?
- Our daughter played HS in 8th grade for a weaker public HS program while going to a private catholic school, went to one private HS in 9th grade and then moved to where all her friends from grade school in 10th we have seen three programs here is what we have learned. In 8th grade there were also two other 8th graders on the team. She had the chance to step in and play second line or top D pair over the season which was unique - the other two 8th graders were also on the top 2 units - HS team only had 7 wins so bit of a roller coaster. The U14 team that year went to state. From a playing perspective is was great but due to other issues all three players left the team and went to other schools - 2 to other HS and 1 to Thoroughbreds.
What factors have made it positive or negative?
- I think it is was great from a hockey experience but you have to have a locker room or a coach that will work with upper class players to make it a positive socail experience. I think our daughter kind of kept quite all year except with the other two 8 graders.
Given the chance to do it again would you?
- yes as an upper class player now our daughter goes out of her way to welcome and encourage younger players - it has grown her leadership. The boredom factor we have not seen in her but it is reall kids platuae or peak at different times - if you only play hockey in the HS season this is very real. Make the cohoice that will help your daughter love the game over their lifetime - good coaching with defined values for the program and a focus on team skills is key and a recognition that captains and leadership across the whole program would be questions I would encourage a parent to ask themselves and the coaches at U12/U14 and the HS. Lots of studies on confidence top players become top players because they learn how to dominate - if they are always in the deep end of the pool they may not develop this trait which is critical to play at the next level but more importantly to have fun and positive self image and confidence.
U12/U14 or PeeweeA/B players that had a choice to play at local HS (not all have a choice) are you happy with your decision?
- yes our daughter is now at a private school 7-12 that had 55 girls go out this fall. The Varsity has 5 Sr, 5 Jr, 2 So, 6 Fr. - the JV has 1 Jr, 4 So, 7 - 9th, 2 8th, 1 7th. They have a great embracing approach across the program and JV and Varsity - have 3 good coaches for each team and do a strength and conditioning program. I think it is a great program - best our daughter has seen. So I would ask about coaching, program philosophy, and how your daughter will grow over their time there.
Every year many girls and parents make this choice maybe this may help the next years girls and their parents. All the answers will be unique to the person that signs on. No situation is the same as the next.
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royals dad
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- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:41 pm
Great post Joe, I always think of the MN Twins and Tom Kelly. He created an environment that focused on fundementals and had the veterans in a supportive role of rookies. Pucket helped Hunter, Hunter helped Span, Span will help Gomez. Not always in the players best intrest but on the team they buy into it. That environment still persists in that organization today. The same is sometimes true for HS Coaches and the environment they create, sometimes it is still there years after the original coach is gone. Good or Bad.
When making this choice I think parents and players need to strongly consider the aspect of the team environment. Have the conversation with this years parents, next years seniors, and then the coaches.
When I talked to the coaches about this last year with our teams coaches they told me about how they turn the tables on the older girls a bit. Instead of the younger kids picking up pucks, cleaning locker rooms, taking care of bags he has the older girls doing it. You take care of the younger kids and in turn they will pass that on when they are seniors. When a younger girl needs a ride, the older girls step up even if it is a sacrifice for them, the older girls watch what they say and do around the younger ones and there is an expectation that it will be paid forward in the future.
Turns out they were telling the truth the older girls are not best friends with my daughter off the ice, they don't talk with her about thier boyfriends or the HS scene but I think they watch out for her and have been really nice to her. They are good influences on her and I hope someday she can do the same for somebody else.
When making this choice I think parents and players need to strongly consider the aspect of the team environment. Have the conversation with this years parents, next years seniors, and then the coaches.
When I talked to the coaches about this last year with our teams coaches they told me about how they turn the tables on the older girls a bit. Instead of the younger kids picking up pucks, cleaning locker rooms, taking care of bags he has the older girls doing it. You take care of the younger kids and in turn they will pass that on when they are seniors. When a younger girl needs a ride, the older girls step up even if it is a sacrifice for them, the older girls watch what they say and do around the younger ones and there is an expectation that it will be paid forward in the future.
Turns out they were telling the truth the older girls are not best friends with my daughter off the ice, they don't talk with her about thier boyfriends or the HS scene but I think they watch out for her and have been really nice to her. They are good influences on her and I hope someday she can do the same for somebody else.
Some other key thoughts to consider:royals dad wrote:I think you might be "on the edge" of sounding a little to holier than thou. If your school doesnt allow it there was not really a decision in your case.
For some players they have an opportunity and choices to make. They have coaches and players on both sides who are pushing for them to go one way or another. As a parent there is alot to consider. I think this thread was more for parents who went this way to give some of the pros and cons to other parents who are looking at next year.
IMO Coming in with a post that says "here of a list of why this is bad, even though I never went through it" maybe a bit much.
That said two things I forgot to mention, you only have another week to visit practices this year. So get out there a sit and watch how they run them every hs and jv coach is different, might make it a bad fit. Also get a schedule for JV practices, this was a huge silver lining for us, we have family dinner almost every night in hockey season!
Go Watch - if you are a U12 or U14 go watch HS practices and go watch HS games especially sectional games you can learn a lot watching a program - coach and players - in a critical key game like sections - if your daughter doesn't respond well to hollering yet watch how the coachs communicate and react. Is everybody under control or out of control after the win or loss? You can't change the program but you can decide when your daughter is mentally mature enough to join...... Hey there is a great video on the right side of this page (see link below) on the Roseville girls with interviews with Captain Bethany Brausen and Coach Vic Brodt. Watching it you see the many reasons they have had such a great tradition of success - they play loose, have fun, set high standards themselves, embrace and nuture the underclassmen........looks like a team across the group - sure the cameras were rolling so everyone wants to be at their best but looks like genuine teamwork.
http://www.twincities.com/sports
Schedule - Last item that hasn't come up here yet is practice time and games - as a U12 and especially a U14 you will mostly practice post 8 PM or maybe 9 PM and you will play many games on the weekend. A HS practices right after school - find out when maybe 3 PM? If both parents work and your child is at Jr high the simple logistics of getting from school to practice is big. We love the HS schedule game usually Tuesday and Friday or maybe Sautrday and home from practice before 5 pm. This results in a family dinner and study time from 6-10 pm. Also totally frees up Sunday though often it is playing hockey outside.
Cost - Where we live it costs $950 (plus travel costs to tourneys) to play U14 it costs $125 at the public HS - in these times economics have to be factored in.
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drop the puck
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:12 am
Do not assume anything. What is good in one program may or may not be good in yours.
Talk to the head coach. Talk to the A.D. Talk with other parents with girls in the program that played HS hockey as 7th and 8th graders.
Playtime should be discussed openly. Where will your daughter develop better? Practice hours over the season? Game time?
Need to determine if the upperclass girls "adopt" younger players or haze them. Even in 2009 hazing can be discrete or blatant. If coaches do not have a program in place to prevent hazing then it is probably occuring.
While some social interaction should be encouraged off the ice, I would personnally want my 13 year old daughter to be with friends her own age and not running around with 17 year old high school girls. Accelerated exposure to dating, alcohol, and other issues facing high school girls should be addressed. Such simple things as hanging out and watching R rated movies at another players home may mean nothing to the parents of a high school daugher but should be of concern to all parents of 13 year old girls.
Last, but maybe FIRST. Ask your daughter what she wants to do!
Talk to the head coach. Talk to the A.D. Talk with other parents with girls in the program that played HS hockey as 7th and 8th graders.
Playtime should be discussed openly. Where will your daughter develop better? Practice hours over the season? Game time?
Need to determine if the upperclass girls "adopt" younger players or haze them. Even in 2009 hazing can be discrete or blatant. If coaches do not have a program in place to prevent hazing then it is probably occuring.
While some social interaction should be encouraged off the ice, I would personnally want my 13 year old daughter to be with friends her own age and not running around with 17 year old high school girls. Accelerated exposure to dating, alcohol, and other issues facing high school girls should be addressed. Such simple things as hanging out and watching R rated movies at another players home may mean nothing to the parents of a high school daugher but should be of concern to all parents of 13 year old girls.
Last, but maybe FIRST. Ask your daughter what she wants to do!
Our daughter is in 8th grade and was given the opportunity to play varsity this year. In reality she played mostly JV and was a bit frustrated. She had higher expectations about the talent level of the JV players and found herself ratcheting back to play at that level...rather than the level that she wanted to play. I personally think that she would have fit in with more varsity play - but don't all parents think that!?!
She grew up playing boys hockey, and if she hadn't made the girls team would have continued on with boys. Playing on these teams has been totally her choice. We have supported her decision, but haven't made it for her.
I would absolutely support a girl that has the desire and the talent to play on a boys team, to do so. Especially at the PeeWee and above level, it is still a faster, stronger game...and she loved that.
The upperclass girls have been quite good to her. I know that there are things that have been said in the locker room that were rather awkward at times, but not too much of that. Plus, she's already looking ahead to the day when she's an upperclassman and thinking about how she'll treat the younger girls. She will be a good role model.
They all seem to be generally a group of "good girls" and their team escapades have been quite mild (she likes to go with them to dinner after a game, and go to an occasional sleep over). I do worry about things like movies, but so far it's been manageable.
I've also worried about her driving with high school girls. That actually concerns me more than many other possibilities!
This is a pretty talented team, and a number of girls have dreams of playing for college and perhaps beyond. I think that adds (somewhat) a level of seriousness to their activities that might be missing in other programs. Very few of the girls seem to want to jeopardize any opportunities.
At least I hope so!
She grew up playing boys hockey, and if she hadn't made the girls team would have continued on with boys. Playing on these teams has been totally her choice. We have supported her decision, but haven't made it for her.
I would absolutely support a girl that has the desire and the talent to play on a boys team, to do so. Especially at the PeeWee and above level, it is still a faster, stronger game...and she loved that.
The upperclass girls have been quite good to her. I know that there are things that have been said in the locker room that were rather awkward at times, but not too much of that. Plus, she's already looking ahead to the day when she's an upperclassman and thinking about how she'll treat the younger girls. She will be a good role model.
They all seem to be generally a group of "good girls" and their team escapades have been quite mild (she likes to go with them to dinner after a game, and go to an occasional sleep over). I do worry about things like movies, but so far it's been manageable.
I've also worried about her driving with high school girls. That actually concerns me more than many other possibilities!
This is a pretty talented team, and a number of girls have dreams of playing for college and perhaps beyond. I think that adds (somewhat) a level of seriousness to their activities that might be missing in other programs. Very few of the girls seem to want to jeopardize any opportunities.
At least I hope so!
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hockeyguy60
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:32 pm
7/8th graders moving up to HS level
I started this last season and it is that time of year for parents and their daughters to look at this again.
There were many good opinions on the subject last year.
Last season my daughter was one of those players (7th grader) on a HS program. In our case had she was given the choice of PW-A (she made the local association A team a month earlier) or HS varsity. We took the HS choice as I personnally didn't want her to get lit up by PW-A boys on a daily basis. If she was on the JV we would have moved her back to the PWA team for the competion level.
It is always a tough choice and everyones reason is unique. It needs to take into the players' ability, size, social and mental toughness. For some it is a matter of finances and travel or time for practices and games.
Good luck with your choice
There were many good opinions on the subject last year.
Last season my daughter was one of those players (7th grader) on a HS program. In our case had she was given the choice of PW-A (she made the local association A team a month earlier) or HS varsity. We took the HS choice as I personnally didn't want her to get lit up by PW-A boys on a daily basis. If she was on the JV we would have moved her back to the PWA team for the competion level.
It is always a tough choice and everyones reason is unique. It needs to take into the players' ability, size, social and mental toughness. For some it is a matter of finances and travel or time for practices and games.
Good luck with your choice
i'm not so sure it is the choice of the player or parent. If the high school team needs the numbers, there are some, but very few who won't take the opportunity to tell their buddies that their daughter is at the high school in 7th or 8th grade. They must be a superstar. Parent ego usually wins out in these situations.
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hockeyheaven
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:42 pm
This is one of those decisions that have to be assessed on a case by case basis, and the guiding principles used for the choice, I believe, should follow a progression based path. With girls hockey (because of numbers) these decisions are generally present at every level that your daughter has participated in. So why should HS be any different? I believe your skill level and the level of the competition should be the determining factor. If you’re petitioning to play up at either the U10, U12, U14, (boys) or HS level, at a minimum, the player should have dominate the one level before even consider advancing to the next. What I mean by dominating is that you were at the top 10 %. Then looking at the next level the player should be projected to fall somewhere around the middle or above…and a 7th and 8th grader should never play JV (unless numbers dictate or age). The others make good points about the off ice issues. The older girl influence is real, and can have a negative impact on the player. Emotional maturity has to be a close second when considering taking this step. Oh by the way the cost differential is not that dramatic as was alluded to. You need to factor in gate fees to 25 games, booster club fees, hosting team dinners...