Juniors vs Seniors

wiseguy · Post by **wiseguy** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:02 pm

How does your program look at the Juniors and Seniors during tryouts?

Say you have a junior and senior D that give you just about the same and neither one played varsity the year before. Do you go with the senior on varsity or cut him and go with the junior? Say the same for goalies and forwards

SPUDHOCKEY · Post by **SPUDHOCKEY** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:51 pm

since 215 views.

It's pretty simple, I will take the top 20 players I can get. 7th grader, 8th grader, soph, juniors, or seniors...whatever it is.

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:42 pm

Also depends on how many kids tryout. There are so many things that can happen in a season with injuries, grades and other influences. I would say you keep the senior and move the JR up when the time comes. There are only 16 teams that get to the big dance so basically everyone else is playing for the fun of it. It is about the high school experience. Why would you want to take that away from some kid?

minnesotaice · Post by **minnesotaice** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:59 pm

youngblood08 wrote:Also depends on how many kids tryout. There are so many things that can happen in a season with injuries, grades and other influences. I would say you keep the senior and move the JR up when the time comes. There are only 16 teams that get to the big dance so basically everyone else is playing for the fun of it. It is about the high school experience. Why would you want to take that away from some kid?

you would be suprised how many coaches would cut the senior.

Ive seen this situation happen many times, not only in hockey.

hockeyjunkie2 · Post by **hockeyjunkie2** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:03 pm

minnesotaice wrote:
youngblood08 wrote:Also depends on how many kids tryout. There are so many things that can happen in a season with injuries, grades and other influences. I would say you keep the senior and move the JR up when the time comes. There are only 16 teams that get to the big dance so basically everyone else is playing for the fun of it. It is about the high school experience. Why would you want to take that away from some kid?
you would be suprised how many coaches would cut the senior.

Ive seen this situation happen many times, not only in hockey.

If all was equal, I would take the Junior.

EHSHack · Post by **EHSHack** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:31 pm

Agreed. Its a bad situation to be in, and if your a senior or junior, unless you moved, if you weren't good enough to make the team as a sophmore or freshman, not a lot of kids will improve enough to make it.
Your choice is either take a Senior who has reached his high school potential, or a junior who can still develop. And trust me, my school does it just as much as anyone else. How do you think Marshall fields a team...

scoreboard33 · Post by **scoreboard33** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:56 pm

With goalies, its more about personality than age in my opinion. If the goalie has the me against the world attitude and a good mix of confidence/cockiness, he is the one and I don't care how old he is.

For skaters, most coaches would go with the junior because they can develop and also can't complain about PT as much because they have to worry about next year. The junior also will probably be forced to step into a bigger role the next and be a team leader, so I think taking the junior is a better idea.

wiseguy · Post by **wiseguy** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:14 am

For my friend oldtimehockey! A few crazy people out there!

Doglover · Post by **Doglover** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:04 am

I wish more HS coaches would realize the importance of the HS experience and the impact they are having on the kids with their decisions - in every sport. I would definitley take the senior and the junior the following year (or pass on the freshman/soph and take both the Jr and Senior). Too many coaches really only care about winning and don't care deeply enough about the kids although they say "they are all about the kids". Good sound bite but if they don't back it up with their actions, don't communicate well with the kids, don't consider families and the kids in their decisions, in the long run I believe they will not inspire the loyalty and admiration of their community - even if they do win.

I think a well respected coach (who considers kids first above all else) is loved whether they win or lose, because of their positive impact on their athletes as young adults. That's how I would want to be judged in the end. Have a reputation of cutting the seniors because you anticipate they will complain if they don't play or because you won't have two years to develop them, and you won't have the respect and loyalty of your community. When coaches choose teams for reasons that everyone feels are wrong and unjust to the kids, even their own players won't respect them as much. The true test of a great coach is the lifelong impact they make on their players and how they are remembered by the players and their community.

ice hacker · Post by **ice hacker** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:18 am

Rember if you take a senoirs spot as a junior the same thing could happen to you the following year when you are the senior. What goes around comes around.

BodyShots · Post by **BodyShots** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:49 pm

The last thing you want as a coach is a 4th line made up of Seniors. The 4th line is suppose to be guys that can play both JV and Varsity. In close games, the 4th line doesn't get much (if any) playing time on varsity. That is why you want them to be able to play JV, so they can develop.

I don't know if this applies to all schools, but our school does not allow Seniors to play on JV.

oldtimehockeyguy · Post by **oldtimehockeyguy** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:07 pm

Dog, I am with you on this one. Does a coach want to be remembered as a fair coach or one who cuts seniors every year with the idea of developing Juniors or sophmores. The juniors will be in the same position the next year. I have seen soph and juniors who lettered one or 2 years then cut as seniors. What about loyalty. A player who is in good standing with the team and works hard for 2 years to only be cut as a senior. Those seniors will hate that coach for the rest of there lives. Sounds harse but it is the truth. If a player is on the bubble, it is the coaches job to lay out the situation with the player about potential playing time and let them decide if the current situation works for that senior. I have seen players who at the start of a senior season are told that they may never play a game and turn out to play a great deal because of their hard work.
What if NSP decided that Bret Hedican was not good enough as a JV Junior and cut him the following year. That could have happened. Kids do devlope a great deal from year to year.
The sad thing that happens this time a year is that a lot of coaches have already picked there team for next year. I have seen players go from one of the lower players and slowest players on JV as juniors become the fastest and one of top players their Senior year. It is just a game. Build on your seniors.

fffhockey · Post by **fffhockey** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:00 pm

Why would a coach tell this years juniors to not bother trying out for next years team? They don't know who will get better over the summer. THey don't even know who will be trying out next fall. This is insane. Pick the best team at the time and PLAY TO WIN. Experience does mean something. But seniors shouldn't always stay over juniors or other underclassmen.

1parent · Post by **1parent** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:12 pm

As a coach you need to look at the player in whole forget the Soph, Junior or Senior thing. What gives your Varsity team the best chance to go out and compete at a high level. You also have to look at the program at hand. A lot more to look at then just what year the player is. Look at the player as far as attitude, work ethic, dedication, playing ability, and a few other things. Each coach likes different things in a player. I don't think you can say you always take a junior over the senior or vise versa. If you always take the senior no matter what lets say your a very talented underclassmen that can play varsity but because you always take the senior that kid only gets one year varsity hockey? Either way your going to have players and parents upset. You cut the senior they are all made yuo don't take the junior that might have a bright future after high school they are all made. Flip the role your the parent of a stud underclassman but you know your kid won't play varsity hockey until he's a senior because thats the policie at your school, you know 3-4 other coaches in the same conference that are year in and year out better than the school he would be attending. Do you jump ship and play for a better program and let the kid get 3 years of varsity ice time?

Post by **karl(east)** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:19 pm

From a strategic, play-to-win standpoint, the coach should probably take the junior, since there's more room for development.

That said, there are times when a coach needs to seize opportunities. If the section/conference/whatever appears down and the coach has more reason to believe than usual that this may be their year, then I would understand going for a slightly more polished senior with a little less upside. Great teams take advantage of the opportunities presented to them.

But, of course, this is high school, not college or the pros, and because of that, other things might be factored in. Ultimately, the coach should go with the player whom he can do the most good for, and who consequently will do the most good for the team, in whatever dimension.

redfirehockey1 · Post by **redfirehockey1** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:26 pm

just do what lindquist does at jefferson... cut all the seniors to junior gold regardless of how many years they've been on varsity

minnhockclub · Post by **minnhockclub** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:36 pm

I have heard from a few that the coach should take Juniors over seniors so as to develope the Junior. You do not place players on Varsity to develop. They sre either varsity players or not. I have seen coaches place players on varsity because of potential for the future. They are idiots, you take the best players for that year and it is the seniors job to loose.

EHSHack · Post by **EHSHack** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:38 pm

minnhockclub wrote:I have heard from a few that the coach should take Juniors over seniors so as to develope the Junior. You do not place players on Varsity to develop. They sre either varsity players or not. I have seen coaches place players on varsity because of potential for the future. They are idiots, you take the best players for that year and it is the seniors job to loose.

Obviously you have never heard of "elevating your game"

minnhockclub · Post by **minnhockclub** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:47 pm

thanks for the great response-clueless in MN. How about raising your knowledge of hockey. You find me any good coach that would not want a senior based team.

hockeyhair15 · Post by **hockeyhair15** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:59 am

in this situation your probly talking about the 6th D man, therefore he's probly not going to get allot of ice time. The senior has put in the time and effort and deserves to be on the team, then you can put the Jr. on JV where he is the #1 D-man and will play PP,PK, end of the game and log allot of ice time. plus in most cases he can practice with JV and varsity, as well as get moved up if there are injuries ect. this way the Jr. develops for his senior year and the senior gets rewarded for his hard work.