The future of USA Hockey

[elliott70]

I have spoke with 4 parties from 3 different areas (Colorado/DC/Michigan) on the topic and all of them said the same thing, USA Hockey gave their programs a deadline of today for them to submit an initial application packet to become one of the 36 programs.

NO MENTION OF ANY PACKAGES - 36 PROGRAMS WAS JUST USED AS AN EXAMPLE. JIM JOHANESON A USAH EMPLOYEE WAS JUST GIVEN THIS RESPONSIBILITY AND HAS NOT HIRED ANYONE TO START ASSIST HIM.

What I'm curious of, Elliott I guess you'd best be able to answer this, is if Minnesota would now allow a Minnesota Made or a Fire to hop on and capture Minnesota kids (without the headache in place now).

MM IS NOT A MH - USAH PROGRAM, SO NO.
THE FIRE IS NOT A MH PROGRAM.
MH JUST ESTABLISHED A COMMITTEE AND A BUDGET TO WORK WITH USAH TO DETERMINE HOW THIS WILL WORK IN MN.

This is NOT AAA hockey. It essentially, for all purposes, does away with the AAA designation, sending all the "billpayers" back to the level they belong and focusing on the true elite player.

YES THIS PART IS DRIVEN TO THE ELITE, BUT THE NHL ALSO WANTS HOCKEY GROWTH SO PART OF IT IS RECRUITMENT RETENTION COACHES REFS PARENTS.

Will be interesting how this pans out knowing all the before and after Prep Schoolers in New England, the Shattuck program, the rink owners nationwide, and all the AAA programs that are essentially the Career of some people. This isn't about kids in a sense, it's about business for MANY.

THE 2 USAH PEOPLE SPOKE TO THIS AND ARE VERY COGNIZANT OF HOW THIS WORKS.

[Vapor]

How does this affect kids in the North ?? Are we going to see parents
sending their 14 year old down to the cities to live with strangers ? I don't
like what I'm hearing with this.

[elliott70]

How does this affect kids in the North ?? Are we going to see parents
sending their 14 year old down to the cities to live with strangers ? I don't
like what I'm hearing with this.

NO.

MH will set up something, but just what is et to be determined.
At this stage it appears it will not be a n in-season program....
The committee has not yet met.

I did bring this issue up and was told that it would not work that way.

[O-townClown]

How does this affect kids in the North ?? Are we going to see parents
sending their 14 year old down to the cities to live with strangers ? I don't
like what I'm hearing with this.

Definitely not. You'll have a chance to meet them first so they won't feel so strange.

[Haute hockeymom]

Thats why its called a mobile home.

If your kid is good enough I'm sure Bernie will let you park it in his lot.

[Barman]

Apparantly this ignorant rumor now has the official club application with timeline posted on the USAH website for download.

This just in: MH has implemented a discussion group to investigate the possibility of forming a committee to discern if they may or may not grant member clubs permission to download the forms. First meeting is scheduled for March 16

GO FIRE

[jancze5]

Hmm, interesting, a club application now online....didn't see that one coming. So much for the Monday deadline, guess too many people told USA Hockey they couldn't get it done that quick.

I just honestly don't believe that without Minnesota and Mass in the mix tossing in 3 teams each, that the country has 36 hot-beds of hockey that can produce 17-20 kids per program at each level. Guess USA Hockey thinks so.

[elliott70]

Apparently this ignorant rumor now has the official club application with timeline posted on the USAH website for download.

This just in: MH has implemented a discussion group to investigate the possibility of forming a committee to discern if they may or may not grant member clubs permission to download the forms. First meeting is scheduled for March 16

GO FIRE

You are talking apples and oranges.

USAH believe all of MH assn levels will probably meet the American Development Model. MH model was part of the process in forming the ADM.

[Barman]

So if MH was on the inside of this design process are we to assume that MH won't try to throw up roadblocks should the mega associations decide to apply for High Performance Club status ? The train is leaving the station March 15th and most associations effectively only have one scheduled board meeting before then.

[elliott70]

So if MH was on the inside of this design process are we to assume that MH won't try to throw up roadblocks should the mega associations decide to apply for High Performance Club status ? The train is leaving the station March 15th and most associations effectively only have one scheduled board meeting before then.

The MH model was used - the design was from Johaneson and others at USAH.

Within MN:
The High Performance Club status can be applied for by any association and it is expected that all should apply.

The number of applicants this particular year will be small because of the time frame.

Application can be made next year or in future years.

Just how MH handles the upper levels will be determined by the MH committee with help from USAH is yet to be determined. The initial plan is that all MH assn would adopt the USAH HPC / LTAD program as outlined by USAH.

[MoreCowBell]

This means no traveling Mites or Squirts!

[Barman]

MCB

The USAH document says no travelling Mites and 20 - 25 club vs club Squirt games.

[Bruins]

Any word yet on which clubs are going to send in applications to secure a team.

[Barman]

I have heard of 3 associations so far that plan on putting in an application but need to vote on it at their board meeting first. Needless to say, they are playing it pretty close to the vest.

[O-townClown]

Any word yet on which clubs are going to send in applications to secure a team.

Rumored: Shattuck-St. Mary's and the Florida Everblades

[nobama]

One would have thought that Shattuck would not be so quick to join the Folly I hope this is just a rumor as this plan is being laughed at by all the top programs throughout all of Detroit as well as all of the teams out East. Give Usa Hockey enough rope and they will hang Hockey for the boys and girls. I hear mention that associations are sending in applications, that is quite scary now. If they are sending in applications for this plan, which has so many holes in it you begin to wonder if these associations even have a clue of what they are getting themselves into.

[observer]

It makes no sense for Shattuck to apply so that must be false. How could a school that currently accepts students from all across the US host a team of players from only Minnesota? I can't imagine this will be school related. How would an invited and accepted, strong player be made to attend, and pay for, Shattuck?

[Barman]

observer, I think you must have misread the document, the High Performance Clubs will be able to sign players without having to obtain waivers from their traditional association (below is taken from the HPC Q&A blog)

[b]Will there be movement restrictions geographically for individual players between HPC teams?


HPC tryouts for 13U to 18U teams will be open to all players.[/b]


This means that the MN clubs would be free to choose the best kids from within MN or elsewhere..........whoever had the talent to make the team.The MN HPC organizations would be on an equal footing with Shattuck.




[/b]

[jancze5]

The latest I've heard from back east is that the AYHL shot the proposal down and told all membership heads that if they applied, they would be immediately chartered out of the league. Boston shot it down. Detroit told USA Hockey they already have the best hockey in the country, they don't need this. (as a side bar, Detroit has their head so far up their own ass simply because Minnesota isn't AAA, I can tell you that the 96 Machine, 95 Fire, 94 Blades all easily compete with any of the top Detroit teams)

If you read the latest issue of USA Hockey, Ron D talks about this as an "addition" to the current system. In other words, take what's in place and create an additional league that stems the entire US with what would hopefully be a talent laden program.

Oh, forgot to mention a key point...$15,000 per kid to play on these teams.

"I'm sorry, did you fall off your chair, let me help you up".....yes, I said $15,000 a kid. Elliott, those of us who choose to send our kids to private schools may pay close or more than this, but that's for educational purposes, please keep this program out of our state, we don't need it.

[flatontheice]

The latest I've heard from back east is that the AYHL shot the proposal down and told all membership heads that if they applied, they would be immediately chartered out of the league. Boston shot it down. Detroit told USA Hockey they already have the best hockey in the country, they don't need this. (as a side bar, Detroit has their head so far up their own ass simply because Minnesota isn't AAA, I can tell you that the 96 Machine, 95 Fire, 94 Blades all easily compete with any of the top Detroit teams)

If you read the latest issue of USA Hockey, Ron D talks about this as an "addition" to the current system. In other words, take what's in place and create an additional league that stems the entire US with what would hopefully be a talent laden program.

Oh, forgot to mention a key point...$15,000 per kid to play on these teams.

"I'm sorry, did you fall off your chair, let me help you up".....yes, I said $15,000 a kid. Elliott, those of us who choose to send our kids to private schools may pay close or more than this, but that's for educational purposes, please keep this program out of our state, we don't need it.

That was last summer. I take it you think these teams will compete against the Michigan teams THIS summer. You are in for a eye opener.

[observer]

I guess what I'm saying is this is a hockey club discussion not a school discussion. If Shattuck wanted to host developmental teams at every level, and host school teams, that's one thing but that would surprise me and I'm not sure they have the ice to host another 8-10 teams. An urban center would be more likely. Can you say Minnesota Made? It would be a perfect model and would fulfill many of Bernie's dreams. The absolute best players from the region training at his facility.

As for the established club teams in Detroit and the east coast I guess it's not surprising they'd raise a stink. It threatens their model, clubs and revenue. Each club in Detroit, as an example, would lose their top 3-4 players at every age level as they would join the regional super club.

The cost is another problem. Now you're back to the kids that are good and can afford it. Not just the best talent. I have to believe they'd would work on financial assistance for the truly best athletes.

[Barman]

I would agree that Mn Made would be a much cleaner fit than Shattuck. Of course they would have to get registered with USA through MN which might be a tricky negotiation but where there is a will there is a way.

In a strange sort of way the MM option might actually help keep costs down as they would probably run 4 in house development teams under each HPC team. This would allow an entry point to those that could not come up with the bigger dollars and give the organization a chance to ID and assist those with exceptional talent but limited means.

By the way, this isn't an endorsement of MM, just a comment on the model. I am certain that there are many Bernies around the country who would be able to elevate the development level for a lot of kids.

[sorno82]

I think too many are missing the point by focusing on the older elite player and how it will affect them. This program is geared towards the younger athlete in order to give them a good athletic foundation before they focus on becoming an elite player. It takes patience and will require many to step back and change their thinking. This program does not endorse year round hockey that so many of the entrenched programs rely on, or benefit from. It allows kids who are slower to develop a chance to reach their potential by staying involved through their physical and mental maturation process.

I started researching this on my own a few years ago due to my consternation on the whole Minnesota “AAA” and offseason structure. Kids at age 7 and 8 were being scouted and recruited to play on these AAA teams, and I was put off on all the lobbying and politicking that went on to choose these teams. I knew from my experiences that it was not a predictor of future success, but I started to doubt my convictions. My kids are not the type to want to do things year round and need variety, so we kind of stumbled into this. After reading numerous papers and publications, it all pointed to the LTAD model for youth sports.

In simplest terms, play other sports and develop the athlete first, not the hockey player. Real development does not start until after puberty, so don’t rush the process. Sure the kids will be squirt superstars if they are hand selected and given 200 hours of structured ice in the summer, but will they peak too soon, or just burn out? Some kids will succeed in spite of this early specialization, but many will burn out or peak too early. Without a strong and diverse athletic base, their top potential will never be achieved. The diversity keeps the mind and body fresh. Don’t let this out-they may like something better than hockey when they get older and will have a desire to pursue that (and they will have the athletic base to do so).

This approach contradicts many of the established hockey clubs models, so they will reject it. If a kid stops developing, they replace him/her. It reduces games and reduces ice hours for all players under 12. This will not support their business model. Now if a MM offered baseball, Lacrosse, gymnastics, football, down time, and soccer for kids as part of their business model while reducing hockey specific development, then this would be a closer approximation of the USA LTAD model. You also don’t need a club structure to follow this, just keep your kids involved in multiple activities, and give them time to refresh and rejuvenate. Also don’t worry about the drive for early expertise and specialization- it usually hurts kids much more than it helps.

[muckandgrind]

I think too many are missing the point by focusing on the older elite player and how it will affect them. This program is geared towards the younger athlete in order to give them a good athletic foundation before they focus on becoming an elite player. It takes patience and will require many to step back and change their thinking. This program does not endorse year round hockey that so many of the entrenched programs rely on, or benefit from. It allows kids who are slower to develop a chance to reach their potential by staying involved through their physical and mental maturation process.

I started researching this on my own a few years ago due to my consternation on the whole Minnesota “AAA” and offseason structure. Kids at age 7 and 8 were being scouted and recruited to play on these AAA teams, and I was put off on all the lobbying and politicking that went on to choose these teams. I knew from my experiences that it was not a predictor of future success, but I started to doubt my convictions. My kids are not the type to want to do things year round and need variety, so we kind of stumbled into this. After reading numerous papers and publications, it all pointed to the LTAD model for youth sports.

In simplest terms, play other sports and develop the athlete first, not the hockey player. Real development does not start until after puberty, so don’t rush the process. Sure the kids will be squirt superstars if they are hand selected and given 200 hours of structured ice in the summer, but will they peak too soon, or just burn out? Some kids will succeed in spite of this early specialization, but many will burn out or peak too early. Without a strong and diverse athletic base, their top potential will never be achieved. The diversity keeps the mind and body fresh. Don’t let this out-they may like something better than hockey when they get older and will have a desire to pursue that (and they will have the athletic base to do so).

This approach contradicts many of the established hockey clubs models, so they will reject it. If a kid stops developing, they replace him/her. It reduces games and reduces ice hours for all players under 12. This will not support their business model. Now if a MM offered baseball, Lacrosse, gymnastics, football, down time, and soccer for kids as part of their business model while reducing hockey specific development, then this would be a closer approximation of the USA LTAD model. You also don’t need a club structure to follow this, just keep your kids involved in multiple activities, and give them time to refresh and rejuvenate. Also don’t worry about the drive for early expertise and specialization- it usually hurts kids much more than it helps.

In a perfect world, what you say makes sense. You mention that kids should play multiple sports, I agree. But what about the kid who doesn't WANT to play multiple sports? I wish my kids wanted to play football, soccer and baseball...but they don't (at least not on a organized league) What if they are extremely passionate about hockey (or basketball or soccer) and nothing else? Do we force them to sit it out over the summer? Do we force a musician to stop playing their instrument for a few months out of the year? Of course not.

Another thing to consider, many off-season AAA hockey programs ENCOURAGE kids to play other sports and many others actually shut it down during the months of June and July to allow kids that want to play other sports to focus on those instead. In fact, the Cyclones even form their OWN baseball teams and make sure that hockey and baseball don't interfere with each other so that parents and players won't have to choose between the two.

There is no "one size fits all" answer. Some kids are just as good with playing hockey year round as other who play other sports. It's about what the individual kid wants that matters. If hockey is their love, why keep them from playing? If it's burn-out you are worried about, then talk to your kid and find out what they are thinking and how they are feeling.

[sorno82]

Muck,

I agree with most of your points. No system is one size fits all. There are several offseason AAA teams that encourage multiple sports and support the kids.

On the kid who wants to do nothing but play one sport (I am thinking under 12)-my personal belief is that a parent should not let them if the kid wants to be truly elite. There is too much evidence that focusing on one sport leads to injury and eventual burn-out (even partial burnout which can be just as damaging to the kids development and fun). Most of the great athletes in late specialization sports had a very diverse background.

USA hockey is advocating a 2-3 month break, which still allows for plenty of offseason hockey.

Once again, the kid may not know what is best of them, they are just kids. The data is there to support a diverse athletic development model. However, one can always bring up anecdotal examples of how early specialization works. Forcing a musician to quit for a few months is different due to the fact that they do not need physical rejuvenation, however, a mental break may help.

The program is there for all to understand and digest. What anyone does with the information is up to them. This approach takes patience.