Minnesota made squirt tourney results

[nobama]

Otown Clown you just don't get it.

It is not about the buck you save..

It is about knowing what it takes to win the gold medal.

[kidd]

A majority of rinks are operated by the towns or city why would they need any added insurance to start a rink

Can anyone answer the other questions I asked

[muckandgrind]

Elliott70

I am curious who reports squirt teams playing scrimmages and not reporting them?

What is the punishment?

Honestly, why would ANYONE go out of their way to turn in a team playing a Minnesota Made team in a scrimmage? Why would anyone even care??? As long as all players are insured everything should be good to go...

I mean, this is SUPPOSED to be all about the kids, right???

Insurance is not in place if a USAH team plays a non-sanctioned team.

Why would someone report it?
Lots of reasons, I guess.
It happens all the time.
Believe me the District Directors are not out driving around looking for something. The job comes at you, you don't need to go at it.

Maybe not USAH Insurance, but I'm sure each family carries their own insurance. A simple waiver signed be each family would take care of the insurance issue. No different than summer hockey. I don't see any harm in it at all.

Other than protecting their monopolistic hold on hockey in Minnesota, why should MN Hockey care about who plays who? Like I said, this IS about the kids, right???

[O-townClown]

A majority of rinks are operated by the towns or city why would they need any added insurance to start a rink

Can anyone answer the other questions I asked

You need to get out more. In Minnesota rinks are operated by municipalities. That's not very common elsewhere. My understanding is that USA Hockey registration is very important to the rink owners because they won't be sued for damages when someone gets injured since an insurance coverage exists for anything catastrophic.

USA Hockey registration is kinda like taxes to me. I pay it and don't worry much since it isn't possible to get around it.

[muckandgrind]

A majority of rinks are operated by the towns or city why would they need any added insurance to start a rink

Can anyone answer the other questions I asked

You need to get out more. In Minnesota rinks are operated by municipalities. That's not very common elsewhere. My understanding is that USA Hockey registration is very important to the rink owners because they won't be sued for damages when someone gets injured since an insurance coverage exists for anything catastrophic.

USA Hockey registration is kinda like taxes to me. I pay it and don't worry much since it isn't possible to get around it.

Isn't it the cast that most of these rinks are open during the summer and allow non-USAH sanctioned teams to play without fear of being sued for damages. So what's the harm with allowing non-sanctioned teams playing in the winter?

[elliott70]

A majority of rinks are operated by the towns or city why would they need any added insurance to start a rink

Can anyone answer the other questions I asked

MN law requires public (govt) buildings to assure the taxpayers that users of those facilities (renters) have a million (now $2) in insurance.

[kidd]

Taxes that is exactly how I feel about it but we can do somthing about it edina did compition is good
A rink owner would have to have his own insurance or make people sign wavers like some rinks do

[elliott70]

Why do kids need insurance to play

Answered in previous post.

has anyone ever used this insurance

Yes, it ahs been a financial life saver for way too many.

are the finacial records available

Yes, USA Hockey, MH records (most of it) are publicly available. There a re at least two web sites that publish non-profit information via their annual tax filings.

I don't recall insurance when I was a kid

I don't know when you were akid, so I cannot answer this.

I feel like we are funding ann arbor and others

Funding for ann arbor and other programs did come from the general fund, so to an extent, yes, you were funding it. But there are lots of funding methods and some benefits for all that have come from this program.

all I know of usa hockey is the restrictions they put on teams

Yes, USAH and MH make rules. Some are better than others when it comes to playing the game and providing safety for our kids.
If you do not like certain rules you need to voice that to the proper people or join a board and change it from within.

[elliott70]

Honestly, why would ANYONE go out of their way to turn in a team playing a Minnesota Made team in a scrimmage? Why would anyone even care??? As long as all players are insured everything should be good to go...

I mean, this is SUPPOSED to be all about the kids, right???

Insurance is not in place if a USAH team plays a non-sanctioned team.

Why would someone report it?
Lots of reasons, I guess.
It happens all the time.
Believe me the District Directors are not out driving around looking for something. The job comes at you, you don't need to go at it.

Maybe not USAH Insurance, but I'm sure each family carries their own insurance. A simple waiver signed be each family would take care of the insurance issue. No different than summer hockey. I don't see any harm in it at all.

Other than protecting their monopolistic hold on hockey in Minnesota, why should MN Hockey care about who plays who? Like I said, this IS about the kids, right???

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a simple waiver.
Waivers need to be very specific to have any chance in a court of law.
And there are a lot of variables in all sports situations.

The better question is why is the insurance restrictive to both teams having to be insured and sanctioned by teh organization/company.
I amnot sure of the answer, but I believe it has to do with rates. But in BB (at least with some of the organizations) this is not a requirement.

But Congress gave USAH a lot of power for Olympic player development.
Like thay say, its tough to fight city hall.

[muckandgrind]

Insurance is not in place if a USAH team plays a non-sanctioned team.

Why would someone report it?
Lots of reasons, I guess.
It happens all the time.
Believe me the District Directors are not out driving around looking for something. The job comes at you, you don't need to go at it.

Maybe not USAH Insurance, but I'm sure each family carries their own insurance. A simple waiver signed be each family would take care of the insurance issue. No different than summer hockey. I don't see any harm in it at all.

Other than protecting their monopolistic hold on hockey in Minnesota, why should MN Hockey care about who plays who? Like I said, this IS about the kids, right???

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a simple waiver.
Waivers need to be very specific to have any chance in a court of law.
And there are a lot of variables in all sports situations.
The better question is why is the insurance restrictive to both teams having to be insured and sanctioned by teh organization/company.
I amnot sure of the answer, but I believe it has to do with rates. But in BB (at least with some of the organizations) this is not a requirement.

But Congress gave USAH a lot of power for Olympic player development.
Like thay say, its tough to fight city hall.

Again, I go back to the fact that there is a lot of "non-sanctioned" hockey played in Minnesota during the summer. Every off-season/AAA team my boys have played on required us to sign a liability waiver form. This has been done for years, and I've never heard of these waivers being challenged in anyway. Maybe they have been, but that certainly hasn't stopped summer hockey from becoming more and more popular. Every summer, there are more and more teams/leagues forming.

IMO, insurance has nothing to do with the reason why MN Hockey would threaten teams from playing non-sanctioned teams. Like I stated before, my belief is that they are afraid of losing their grip on controlling winter hockey in this state.

[DMom]

It's kind of obvious that a lot of the posters are squirt and younger parents. This year alone I know of two broken wrists, a broken collarbone, a broken upper arm, 4 concussions, and a very nasty (read that as needing surgery to re-attach tendons, etc) cut to the lower arm from a skate blade, and that's just on two travel teams at the peewee and bantam level since the start of the season. There are quite a few more that I don't know the families of. The insurance gets used. My kid's summer teams carry insurance, which we pay for via fees, and it's worth it.

[trippedovertheblueline]

Is it true that the registered team restrictions are eliminated when played outside? For example a Edina Squirt B team could play one of these MM teams at the nearby Lewis Park outside.

Also with outside is this true: non certified parents are able participate on the ice as coaches, as well as no helmet enforcement for coaches.

What is the difference?

[elliott70]

Is it true that the registered team restrictions are eliminated when played outside? For example a Edina Squirt B team could play one of these MM teams at the nearby Lewis Park outside.

Also with outside is this true: non certified parents are able participate on the ice as coaches, as well as no helmet enforcement for coaches.

What is the difference?

This is not true.
All on-ice activities are covered.
some off-ice activities are covered.

[muckandgrind]

It's kind of obvious that a lot of the posters are squirt and younger parents. This year alone I know of two broken wrists, a broken collarbone, a broken upper arm, 4 concussions, and a very nasty (read that as needing surgery to re-attach tendons, etc) cut to the lower arm from a skate blade, and that's just on two travel teams at the peewee and bantam level since the start of the season. There are quite a few more that I don't know the families of. The insurance gets used. My kid's summer teams carry insurance, which we pay for via fees, and it's worth it.

Are you referring to me? I have two boys currently playing in Bantam and Squirt and an older son who played youth and HS hockey (he graduated three years ago). I've also coached from Mites through Bantams. So, no, I'm not a new hockey parent.

(BTW - did that tendon injury that you are talking about occurr at the SSP Bantam tourney this past weekend. I saw the pictures, looked very nasty).

I'm not saying that insurance shouldn't required, just that insurance through USAH shouldn't be the reason preventing a sanctioned team from playing a non-sanctioned team. That's great that your summer teams carry insurance, I'm glad they do. (I'd be willing to bet that insurance is not through USAH, though, and that makes my point) My kids have been part of summer teams that carry insuarance, and some that don't. On the teams that don't, we signed waivers and they were covered by our health insurance. I don't know for certain, but I wouldn't be suprised if MM carried insurance as well.

Back to my original question, insurance can't be the reason why MN Hockey threatens teams from playing non-sanctioned teams as long everybody is carrying their own insurance and/or signed a waiver releasing the rink and/or team from liability in case of injury. So what is REAL reason why they have this rule in place?

[DMom]

It's kind of obvious that a lot of the posters are squirt and younger parents. This year alone I know of two broken wrists, a broken collarbone, a broken upper arm, 4 concussions, and a very nasty (read that as needing surgery to re-attach tendons, etc) cut to the lower arm from a skate blade, and that's just on two travel teams at the peewee and bantam level since the start of the season. There are quite a few more that I don't know the families of. The insurance gets used. My kid's summer teams carry insurance, which we pay for via fees, and it's worth it.

Are you referring to me? I have two boys currently playing in Bantam and Squirt and an older son who played youth and HS hockey (he graduated three years ago). I've also coached from Mites through Bantams. So, no, I'm not a new hockey parent.

(BTW - did that tendon injury that you are talking about occurr at the SSP Bantam tourney this past weekend. I saw the pictures, looked very nasty).

I'm not saying that insurance shouldn't required, just that insurance through USAH shouldn't be the reason preventing a sanctioned team from playing a non-sanctioned team. That's great that your summer teams carry insurance, I'm glad they do. (I'd be willing to bet that insurance is not through USAH, though, and that makes my point) My kids have been part of summer teams that carry insuarance, and some that don't. On the teams that don't, we signed waivers and they were covered by our health insurance. I don't know for certain, but I wouldn't be suprised if MM carried insurance as well.

Back to my original question, insurance can't be the reason why MN Hockey threatens teams from playing non-sanctioned teams as long everybody is carrying their own insurance and/or signed a waiver releasing the rink and/or team from liability in case of injury. So what is REAL reason why they have this rule in place?

No, MandG you are a long time poster and it's obvious you have older kids. Yes, it was the SSP tourney, very nasty cut.

I'll ask the other question, why would a team want to play unregistered teams? It's not for the kids, because they don't care who they play.

There are good reasons for having the insurance rules, to keep peewees from scrimmaging bantam teams for those same injury reasons. Playing outside of registered team takes away USA Hockey's ability to limit the liability. Maybe those coaches don't have to wear helmets but if it's on a USA Hockey team's ice, it could be liable. If the teams are registered than they can't control the playing rules, the age limits, etc.

I would never, ever turn in someone, but I know plenty who have been turned in. It's always disgruntled parents.

[Judgeandjury]

What if you take an unsanctioned team and all the kids pay the USA insurance fee to play sanctioned teams? What harm can be done? As long as all the kids are in the same age group everyone should be happy.

I know this has been covered many times. But how can the Fire play in Minnesota? It looks like they found a way to be insured and play sanctioned teams? Why can't Minnesota made insure their kids and play sanctioned teams? Or play in Minnesota tourneys? Shouldn't it be as easy as paying the insurance fee and registering the teams?

[elliott70]

What if you take an unsanctioned team and all the kids pay the USA insurance fee to play sanctioned teams? What harm can be done? As long as all the kids are in the same age group everyone should be happy.

I know this has been covered many times. But how can the Fire play in Minnesota? It looks like they found a way to be insured and play sanctioned teams? Why can't Minnesota made insure their kids and play sanctioned teams? Or play in Minnesota tourneys? Shouldn't it be as easy as paying the insurance fee and registering the teams?

No its not that easy. You cannot pick and choose what parts of the program you want to follow.

The Fire are a WI based team following the guidelines established by USAH. At times in the past they have crossed the line but are very diligent in how they operate now.

[iwearmysunglassesatnight]

judgejury you sound like your singing a different tune about MM w/ the squirt league compared to mite choice. Is it the right decision?

E70, skating outside practices, coaches do not need to wear helmets correct? Why the difference between indoor and outdoor?

[elliott70]

judgejury you sound like your singing a different tune about MM w/ the squirt league compared to mite choice. Is it the right decision?

E70, skating outside practices, coaches do not need to wear helmets correct? Why the difference between indoor and outdoor?

If it is just a shiny game or non-organized practice, then no, they do what ever they want, it is their time.
If it is a scheduled event, game, practice, scrimmage, whatever, then yes they do need to wear helmets if they are on the ice.

[middle of nowhere hockey]

what are the prices on the mite and squirt mm hockey teams? Do they have tryouts or you just pay and play?

[douglasdoright]

what are the prices on the mite and squirt mm hockey teams? Do they have tryouts or you just pay and play?

Yes they do hold try-outs. Choice Mites pay between 8-9 hundred and Choice squirts pay a thousand plus.

Both programs are excellent for development.

[DonnyHockey]

isn't a majority of these kids in this Squirt league there as a result of their bitter parents? I know 3 kids from our association that are there because they didn't make the team their parents thought they should play on the previous year. Two of them had no shot at the 'A' team this season and one of the Dad's is now telling everybody he knows he signed Jr. up at Mn Made because he didn't think his kid would get a 'fair evaluation' this season. The kid isn't a' A' material player and he wasn't a B1 claiber talent last year either. He's a great kid and I know for the fact he misses playing with his friends. His stubborn Dad is a piece of work. It will be interesting to see how his Dad handles Peewee's next Fall.

With travel hockey and playing for your community I think that would be more beneficial then playing the same 6 teams over and over and over with no outside games or MN sanctioned tourney's. Plus traveling to Edina that many times a week and on weekends with that traffic stretch......no thanks

Just my 2 cents.

[muckandgrind]

isn't a majority of these kids in this Squirt league there as a result of their bitter parents? I know 3 kids from our association that are there because they didn't make the team their parents thought they should play on the previous year. Two of them had no shot at the 'A' team this season and one of the Dad's is now telling everybody he knows he signed Jr. up at Mn Made because he didn't think his kid would get a 'fair evaluation' this season. The kid isn't a' A' material player and he wasn't a B1 claiber talent last year either. He's a great kid and I know for the fact he misses playing with his friends. His stubborn Dad is a piece of work. It will be interesting to see how his Dad handles Peewee's next Fall.

With travel hockey and playing for your community I think that would be more beneficial then playing the same 6 teams over and over and over with no outside games or MN sanctioned tourney's. Plus traveling to Edina that many times a week and on weekends with that traffic stretch......no thanks

Just my 2 cents.

I think "majority" is a stretch. You might know a few of the "bitter" parents, but I doubt that 6 out of 10 players in that league are there because their parents are "bitter".

Not all kids are happy playing tneir association, that's right....the KIDS aren't happy. Some kids go to private schools and would rather play with kids that go to their school. This league gives them the opportunity to do that. There could be a myriad of reasons why a family would choose to leave their associations...

I have a very good friend of mine who son left a powerful association to play with the Fire. It was his son's decision not his, although, the dad swallowed hard and let him do it. After one season it was the dad who said "no more" due to the time and money required, even though his son was having a blast. This is an example of the player wanting to leave his association, not the parent.

[jumper4]

isn't a majority of these kids in this Squirt league there as a result of their bitter parents? I know 3 kids from our association that are there because they didn't make the team their parents thought they should play on the previous year. Two of them had no shot at the 'A' team this season and one of the Dad's is now telling everybody he knows he signed Jr. up at Mn Made because he didn't think his kid would get a 'fair evaluation' this season. The kid isn't a' A' material player and he wasn't a B1 claiber talent last year either. He's a great kid and I know for the fact he misses playing with his friends. His stubborn Dad is a piece of work. It will be interesting to see how his Dad handles Peewee's next Fall.

With travel hockey and playing for your community I think that would be more beneficial then playing the same 6 teams over and over and over with no outside games or MN sanctioned tourney's. Plus traveling to Edina that many times a week and on weekends with that traffic stretch......no thanks

Just my 2 cents.

I think "majority" is a stretch. You might know a few of the "bitter" parents, but I doubt that 6 out of 10 players in that league are there because their parents are "bitter".

Not all kids are happy playing tneir association, that's right....the KIDS aren't happy. Some kids go to private schools and would rather play with kids that go to their school. This league gives them the opportunity to do that. There could be a myriad of reasons why a family would choose to leave their associations...

I have a very good friend of mine who son left a powerful association to play with the Fire. It was his son's decision not his, although, the dad swallowed hard and let him do it. After one season it was the dad who said "no more" due to the time and money required, even though his son was having a blast. This is an example of the player wanting to leave his association, not the parent.

Agreed! Its not always about the parents being unhappy where their kid might end up...SOMETIMES it is actually what is better for the kid who steps in the skates and on the ice! Until people walk in others shoes you have no idea how hard those decisions can be.

[MoveYourFeet]

The Choice league is a choice, by parents mostly and kids. From what I know of it, the Mite league is purely a repititious skating skill development program that gives the kids a opprotunity to get confident on their skates which will then make the stickhandling and game play a little easier (they will need to continue off ice to improve the others, those skills are not a switch) at the current level.

The squirt league teams have approxiamtely 4-5 Minnesota Made summer team players (Machine, Deuce, Snipers & Grinders) on each team. This is a choice by the parents/players to continue with the coaching, skill development they have come to respect and believe in over the winter months too instead of just the summer.

You can knock Bernie if you want for "making money" it is a business, get beyone the money. Or knock the parents because "they are bitter" or whatever reason you want. It is a Choice, if it effects a association because a player left and may have or may have not made a difference, so what, its a choice! Be happy you are not paying the higher league costs, gas and travel time. If those families make it work who does it really matter and does it effect you?

I have heard many positive remarks about the high speed skill based practices and games. I have heard small complaints too, but the complaints that I have heard are purely based on the decision to play, travel, gas and fees. Can Bernie really be blamed for parents making the decisions?

Just my bit. I will do my best to answer and questions or comments, I enjoy the back and forth talk.