Rotating positions at the Squirt A level
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hockey_is_a_choice
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Rotating positions at the Squirt A level
Coaches: I am curious whether you believe, at the Squirt A level, teams should rotate players between defense and forward during the season. Intuitively, I think this is a no-brainer from a developmental standpoint, which is supposed to be the cornerstone of Squirt hockey, but I'm open to hearing opposing views. More than half-way through the season, my son's coaches have not rotated positions.
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Judgeandjury
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Re: Rotating positions at the Squirt A level
Our coach is doing the same thing. If coaches are more worried about winning than development then it's time for them to be replaced. PATHETIC! Squirts are still about development. And that includes the beloved A team like my son plays on.hockey_is_a_choice wrote:Coaches: I am curious whether you believe, at the Squirt A level, teams should rotate players between defense and forward during the season. Intuitively, I think this is a no-brainer from a developmental standpoint, which is supposed to be the cornerstone of Squirt hockey, but I'm open to hearing opposing views. More than half-way through the season, my son's coaches have not rotated positions.
Of course you could approach your coach and have a nice chat but most likely you'll be labeled as a complainer.
If you had enough nerve to ask the coach he'll most likely jump down your throat or tell you that if the team doesn't win the other parents will get angry with him.
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JoltDelivered
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O-townClown
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here you go
I feel that kids should learn how to play all positions, but someone pointed out that leaving kids in place for a long period at least ensures they will learn how to play that one.
Not saying I agree, but you wanted an opposing view. Also, by Squirts you definitely can tell that some players are better suited for Wing, Center, or Defense.
Not saying I agree, but you wanted an opposing view. Also, by Squirts you definitely can tell that some players are better suited for Wing, Center, or Defense.
Be kind. Rewind.
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Judgeandjury
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Jolt- Let's take the best three offensive players on the team and put them on defense and nothing but defense for the year. I wonder how happy the kids and parents would be? It's the same thing. No coach should have the right to place a kid in one position unless both the player and parents agree.JoltDelivered wrote:Let me guess, you're kid has been stuck at defense all year? If he had been playing center all year would we have seen this post?
If I only had a nickel...
If my son has been playing center all year long I'd want him to get some training at defense in some games.
Does that happen at baseball too? No. You play the position the coach feels you will do the team the most good. It has absolutely nothing to do with where the parents and kids want to play.Judgeandjury wrote:Jolt- Let's take the best three offensive players on the team and put them on defense and nothing but defense for the year. I wonder how happy the kids and parents would be? It's the same thing. No coach should have the right to place a kid in one position unless both the player and parents agree. If my son has been playing center all year long I'd want him to get some training at defense in some games.JoltDelivered wrote:Let me guess, you're kid has been stuck at defense all year? If he had been playing center all year would we have seen this post?
If I only had a nickel...
On topic, yes kids should play every position at squirts. How will they learn the need to backcheck hard unless they've been left alone on a 2 on 1 before??? How will they know how hard it is to score the game winning goal if they don't have a few opportunities to do it? My husband coaches, and yes they rotate a few players each week.
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hockey_is_a_choice
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muckandgrind
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From my experiences at higher levels, players should be exposed to all positions at the squirt level. I have coached many players who we expected to be a defenseman and we move them to forward and vice versa. Players and parents that are unwilling to move positions and unwilling to learn the other positions are also the kids and parents that cause the most problems. If you want your kid to be a star hockey player he has to know what each player on a team is responsible for. Players usually learn best by doing. The coaches here know that when you talk to the players about what the defenseman are doing, the forwards rarely pay attention. They aren't doing it so they don't need to learn it. But when you switch positions all of a sudden they are needing to learn it. 10-11 year olds do not know what position they will be in 5 years and neither do their parents and coaches. Let the kid learn all positions at the lower levels, so they develop and understand the game for the upper levels. Ever wonder why there are no Squirt State Tournaments? It is because this level is about development not winning. This used to be true at PeeWee B, which should also be all about development.
Players should be exposed to more than one position at the Squirt level. I also believe that giving them just a single game at another position doesn't give them much of a chance either to learn that position, or to become comfortable enough to play a new position aggressively. It's better not to switch things up at all and mess the kids up than use a one and out approach.
Even if a coach/parent has a kid slotted for a position (offense or defense) where they'll spend the majority of the season, remember, these are what -- 10 and 11 year olds? Although we may have an idea of what positions some of them are LIKELY to play as they get older, an awful lot can change between squirts and bantams, let alone HS.
Plus, you never know what players will give you an eye-opener unless you give them a chance. Do you have an unknown scorer sitting back on D? Do you have a winger who would potentially play D with his head on a swivel because he's looking for opposing O players trying to slide behind him (just like he has done to opposing Ds)? How many O players would remember to pass the puck back to the point a bit more often if they sat on the blue line themselves for a few games?
If we're really talking about A level squirts, they can all skate and handle the puck. Switching a couple of kids around once in awhile for a few games isn't going to wreck either their squirt season, or their HS career,,, but it may just help.
Even if a coach/parent has a kid slotted for a position (offense or defense) where they'll spend the majority of the season, remember, these are what -- 10 and 11 year olds? Although we may have an idea of what positions some of them are LIKELY to play as they get older, an awful lot can change between squirts and bantams, let alone HS.
Plus, you never know what players will give you an eye-opener unless you give them a chance. Do you have an unknown scorer sitting back on D? Do you have a winger who would potentially play D with his head on a swivel because he's looking for opposing O players trying to slide behind him (just like he has done to opposing Ds)? How many O players would remember to pass the puck back to the point a bit more often if they sat on the blue line themselves for a few games?
If we're really talking about A level squirts, they can all skate and handle the puck. Switching a couple of kids around once in awhile for a few games isn't going to wreck either their squirt season, or their HS career,,, but it may just help.
I coach 12 year old traveling baseball.DMom wrote: Does that happen at baseball too? No. You play the position the coach feels you will do the team the most good. It has absolutely nothing to do with where the parents and kids want to play.
On topic, yes kids should play every position at squirts. How will they learn the need to backcheck hard unless they've been left alone on a 2 on 1 before??? How will they know how hard it is to score the game winning goal if they don't have a few opportunities to do it? My husband coaches, and yes they rotate a few players each week.
I have coached for over 20 years.
Players are asked where they play...
then they are played at different postions to see what they can play and be somewhat successful.
By state tourney time we all know where kids are best at and where thye are worst at....
so we have a quasi depth chart.
At squirts, I hope the coaches are giving kids an opportunity to play other places.
Because you never know....
Mankato State recently had injury/illness problems at forward, how do you fill the gap, hey D, come play F.
And at squirts, there is no standings mantained, if a league is even being done...
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Judgeandjury
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I agree! Good post.elliott70 wrote:I coach 12 year old traveling baseball.DMom wrote: Does that happen at baseball too? No. You play the position the coach feels you will do the team the most good. It has absolutely nothing to do with where the parents and kids want to play.
On topic, yes kids should play every position at squirts. How will they learn the need to backcheck hard unless they've been left alone on a 2 on 1 before??? How will they know how hard it is to score the game winning goal if they don't have a few opportunities to do it? My husband coaches, and yes they rotate a few players each week.
I have coached for over 20 years.
Players are asked where they play...
then they are played at different postions to see what they can play and be somewhat successful.
By state tourney time we all know where kids are best at and where thye are worst at....
so we have a quasi depth chart.
At squirts, I hope the coaches are giving kids an opportunity to play other places.
Because you never know....
Mankato State recently had injury/illness problems at forward, how do you fill the gap, hey D, come play F.
And at squirts, there is no standings mantained, if a league is even being done...
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JoltDelivered
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Well Choice, with 4 kids playing hockey, it would be my LAST nickel but your welcome to it.Wrong. My kid is playing forward. Can I have your nickel?
Let me try and clarify my position. I agree, let the squirt kids play all over the place and get expereince in different situations. I have no beef with that. It is a developmental age level. However, it is my opinion that it is not only the coaches right but OBLIGATION to figure out where he thinks that player is best suited for success and put that player there. All young players need success because success builds confidence. Now, what happens if the coach determines that Johnny is strongest at a certain position by mid December and leaves the player there the rest of the year? Is that OK?
Where red flags start popping up in my head is when parents (most of whom never played, coached or seen anything more than mites or squirts) start giving orders to coaches. Let the coaches do their jobs and let the season play out. If the coach is worth his salt, he should encourage parents to approach the coaches to have a conversation about their son. But please don't approach those conversations like "Here's how it's goona be coach! You have no right to pidgeon hole my kid, blah blah blah."
A wise man once told me that when mom/dad go to the rink, they go to see their own child play hockey. It's great if somebody elses kid does well but everybody wants to see their own child do well also. I think or I hope most coaches understand that.
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Tenoverpar
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Isn't
Isn't it always fun though when the kid who has never played D and who's dad has complained for 3 years about how terrible the D is, gets his chance to go back and gets toasted...love when that happens.
Goalies need to be found at some point. Didn't Patrick Roy go in net at age 12 when his teams goalie went down, we all know the history. It would be great if we weren't so hyper-focused on this sport at such a young age
Goalies need to be found at some point. Didn't Patrick Roy go in net at age 12 when his teams goalie went down, we all know the history. It would be great if we weren't so hyper-focused on this sport at such a young age
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jimmynys37
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Jolt,
To answer your question. NO, it isn't right that a coach at the Squirt level
determines what position is best for the child by mid december. [b] If a coach locks in player positions that early then he is all about trying to get the almighty W. [/b]Squirt hockey is supposed to be developmental hockey, not about wins and losses. Some of these win at all coaches think the kid will develop more by playing one position all season. I think that is ridiculous!! Sure they will be become a better wing by playing wing all season but what about giving them a legitimate chance to play center and defense. And by giving them a legit chance, I mean playing a position for at least a month during games and practices. Kids need to learn and develop at all of the positions, except goalie, at the squirt level. Any coach worth anything should understand this. If not, then he shouldn't be allowed to coach.
To answer your question. NO, it isn't right that a coach at the Squirt level
determines what position is best for the child by mid december. [b] If a coach locks in player positions that early then he is all about trying to get the almighty W. [/b]Squirt hockey is supposed to be developmental hockey, not about wins and losses. Some of these win at all coaches think the kid will develop more by playing one position all season. I think that is ridiculous!! Sure they will be become a better wing by playing wing all season but what about giving them a legitimate chance to play center and defense. And by giving them a legit chance, I mean playing a position for at least a month during games and practices. Kids need to learn and develop at all of the positions, except goalie, at the squirt level. Any coach worth anything should understand this. If not, then he shouldn't be allowed to coach.
Having coached squirts in the past, I can tell you that some parents and kids just hate moving positions. Of course they're all centers, right? I had parents calling me at home (only once, though...) telling me that their young Wayne would be better suited at forward because... blah blah blah. It really is sad.
Kids need to play it all, I think. As a coach you need to make it fun to move around. Winning is good, but learning to win is even better.
Kids need to play it all, I think. As a coach you need to make it fun to move around. Winning is good, but learning to win is even better.
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dogeatdog1
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JoltDelivered
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Blue/Gold - This is exactly what i'm talking about. I have been both the coach on the bench and the plain old parent watching from the satnds. I always get a kick out of those dad's on the team that are going to "straighten out the coach" and tell him where his little Johnny belongs on the ice. Some parents just can't get out of their own way.
Jimmy - By mid December, most squirt teams have practiced for 8-10 weeks and played 10-15 games along with a scrimmage or two. I would argue that is more than a sufficent amount of time to understand who continously gets smoked at defense, doesn't understand defensive zone covererage or who is a great forechecker or for that matter, backchecker. Yes it is the coaches responsibility to develop the players but doesn't he also have a responibility to the team as a whole not to put individuals in positions where they continously fail? A good coach will find a balance between developing players and winning games. Remember, it's OK to ask kids to win the game, even at the age of 10. If you disagree, then lobby your districts to have them turn off the scoreboards for the squirt age kids.
Jimmy - By mid December, most squirt teams have practiced for 8-10 weeks and played 10-15 games along with a scrimmage or two. I would argue that is more than a sufficent amount of time to understand who continously gets smoked at defense, doesn't understand defensive zone covererage or who is a great forechecker or for that matter, backchecker. Yes it is the coaches responsibility to develop the players but doesn't he also have a responibility to the team as a whole not to put individuals in positions where they continously fail? A good coach will find a balance between developing players and winning games. Remember, it's OK to ask kids to win the game, even at the age of 10. If you disagree, then lobby your districts to have them turn off the scoreboards for the squirt age kids.
Turning off the scoreboard at the mite level hasn't kept kids from tracking the score, or knowing who won -- (or, shhhhhhhh, lost).
As long as the coaches are willing to put up with the parents, I hope they continue to play kids at different positions, whether that's up until the middle of December, or until end of the year tournaments.
The main problem with most parents is that they can't stand to see their kid struggle at a new position, or watch another kid struggle and cost them a goal either way. Ironic, since struggling a bit means they're out of their comfort zone and typically learning, which is what most parents profess to want for their kids.
I agree with Jolt, though, that if a kid continues to struggle and get smoked at a position after being given a legitimate chance to play there for several games, that moving them to a position where they are more comfortable and keeping them there makes sense, as that's likely where they're more likely to have more FUN, and help the team. It is a team sport afterall, and competing is part of it.
As long as the coaches are willing to put up with the parents, I hope they continue to play kids at different positions, whether that's up until the middle of December, or until end of the year tournaments.
The main problem with most parents is that they can't stand to see their kid struggle at a new position, or watch another kid struggle and cost them a goal either way. Ironic, since struggling a bit means they're out of their comfort zone and typically learning, which is what most parents profess to want for their kids.
I agree with Jolt, though, that if a kid continues to struggle and get smoked at a position after being given a legitimate chance to play there for several games, that moving them to a position where they are more comfortable and keeping them there makes sense, as that's likely where they're more likely to have more FUN, and help the team. It is a team sport afterall, and competing is part of it.
I have to agree...rotating the players is a good thing at this age. My kid played defense both years unitil squirts where they finally rotated him to let him try playing forward. He is now a bantam and plays forward-but if needed he doesnt have a problem playing D.
Last year one of his buddies made bantam A as a first year because he agreed to switch from forward to D. Otherwise they didnt need him. Good for him that he knew how to play both.
What can it hurt for them to learn both?
Last year one of his buddies made bantam A as a first year because he agreed to switch from forward to D. Otherwise they didnt need him. Good for him that he knew how to play both.
What can it hurt for them to learn both?
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muckandgrind
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I agree that it's beneficial to rotate forwards and defense in Squirts. I would hope that the goalies would already be decided on and you wouldn't have to rotate players through there, though.
That being said, I don't think it's a good idea to rotate players at every single shift. Players should get a few games at their new position in order to get used to playing there.
That being said, I don't think it's a good idea to rotate players at every single shift. Players should get a few games at their new position in order to get used to playing there.
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JoltDelivered
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By reading all of the posts, I think it's pretty clear that everybody is in favor of rotating players in squirts. I think we all agree that's a good thing. Where I think people get hung up is, when is it ok for the coach to insert his discretion and say ok, I've seen the player play wing, center, D, etc... and he was most successful at ?????? whatever... and place the kid there for the next 15 games.
I think for some kids you can tell pretty quick where they are successful (maybe 3-5 games at each position), others take longer, I get that. But if your telling me that as a coach I MUST rotate ALL 15 skaters for the ENTIRE 35 game season, then I say that is bad idea and really hamstrings a coaches ability to coach.
Nofinish, seeing that your assocaition requires it, I'm interested in how your association enforces it. Do they give coaches specific instructions / guidelines on how to administer that? How about consequences if the policy is violated?
I think for some kids you can tell pretty quick where they are successful (maybe 3-5 games at each position), others take longer, I get that. But if your telling me that as a coach I MUST rotate ALL 15 skaters for the ENTIRE 35 game season, then I say that is bad idea and really hamstrings a coaches ability to coach.
Nofinish, seeing that your assocaition requires it, I'm interested in how your association enforces it. Do they give coaches specific instructions / guidelines on how to administer that? How about consequences if the policy is violated?
A hot button issue that relates to this topic is some people have strong feelings about teaching systems or not teaching systems at the squirt level.
Since we are talking about rotating players and the need to do it than I would assume that everyone agrees that teaching a kid how to play the game and the accountability associated to each position is important. Unless people think that playing defense only relates to forcing a kid skate backwards - which if that is the case than I would have to strongly disagree.
So the point I would make is that the first part of the season (say the first 1/3) needs to have more teaching regarding how to play the positions and therefore the sooner you can get the kids into defense, center and wing the more flexibility the coach will have the remaining 2/3's of the season to adjust his/her lineup to meet the objectives of the team (i.e. placing more emphasis on winning tournaments than league games - as an example).
Squirts have the physical and mental ability to understand and execute basic systems for all 3 zones of the rink. And yes, you can accomplish this without sacraficing individual player development.
Summary, squirts should rotate positions, learn how to play the positions as it relates to the Team aspect of the game and the sooner the kids get to play each position the more flexibility the coach will have to switch things up.
Since we are talking about rotating players and the need to do it than I would assume that everyone agrees that teaching a kid how to play the game and the accountability associated to each position is important. Unless people think that playing defense only relates to forcing a kid skate backwards - which if that is the case than I would have to strongly disagree.
So the point I would make is that the first part of the season (say the first 1/3) needs to have more teaching regarding how to play the positions and therefore the sooner you can get the kids into defense, center and wing the more flexibility the coach will have the remaining 2/3's of the season to adjust his/her lineup to meet the objectives of the team (i.e. placing more emphasis on winning tournaments than league games - as an example).
Squirts have the physical and mental ability to understand and execute basic systems for all 3 zones of the rink. And yes, you can accomplish this without sacraficing individual player development.
Summary, squirts should rotate positions, learn how to play the positions as it relates to the Team aspect of the game and the sooner the kids get to play each position the more flexibility the coach will have to switch things up.