Minnesota Made Ice Center

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

Quacker - you are still not listening to anyone. You still think you have the magic formula. You are being advised by people that have lots of history with this game, that at the pace you are at, you son will burn out by Bantams. Even kids who don't have to skate that much, that young, burn out. Also, there is a huge difference between structured 100 hours and unstructured, rink rat hockey (which really is fun).

I say give it up guys. He never listens to anyone. I haven't seen where he (or any of his mulitiple personalities) has taken even one piece of advise.

We really don't care where Junior plays hockey. We just care that others reading this may think you know what you are talking about, and think their kid will fall behind if he doesn't skate 100 hours + (and give me a break, of course you did clinics too).

Doglover, I'm sorry you do not agree how much my son plays hockey. Thanks for the concern.
I can tell you that many kids play twice as much as he does. Yes! that includes association hockey. In fact I've seen many parents rip on Minnesota made only to see them at Minnesota made clinics. I get a chuckle out it.

I agree with mnhcp every kids on ice experience will be different. It's not that I don't get it. I'm just not buying into the notion that my son WILL burn out if he skates 100 hours a year. Will some kids burn out? Sure. I think it's safe to say that we've all seen kids show signs of burnout. What saddens me is the fact that the parents don't pick up on it. Know your kids and talk to your kids.

No! my son didn't do any clinics last year. Our Choice Mite season ended in mid March and AAA hockey started that afternoon. No time for clinics.

By the way............ My son has had a two week break from hockey. He's asked me every day when hockey starts up again. If that's not early warning signs of burn out I don't know what is?

To each his own...................

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

Doglover- Here's one for you. This was an article written about fast track to the NHL. I found it interesting to read Erik Johnson's statement. Read below.

Bernie McBain's 15-year-old Minnesota Made program in Edina is another training option. Many of the high-end NHL draftees have worked through his summer program.
McBain has a picture that was taken seven years ago on a frozen pond in his back yard. All the boys in the picture are 12 years old, and all had spent countless hours every summer in his program. In the picture are Johnson, Okposo and Mueller. All three were first-round picks in 2006.
On the ice that winter day long ago were six players who were drafted by the NHL and eight who got Division I scholarships. But it was the warm-weather months when those players honed their skills.
"During the summer, when you get into independent hockey, there are really no rules," McBain said. "No board saying you can't practice or only play this many games."

Johnson said he honed his skills during those sessions in McBain's program. "The first time we all got together we were 9," he said. "Nobody worked harder than we did. In the summers, three hours a day, five days a week."

Doglover- I now you said that 8 year olds can't skate 100 hours. What is your view point on 9 year olds? Three hours a day - five days a week. Are you kidding me? I wonder if Erik Johnson is burnt out?
Talent Analysis
Johnson is projected to be a top-pairing two-way defenseman who can rush the puck up ice with his excellent stickhandling and passing skills as well as his smooth skating stride. He is reliable in his own zone, using his 6’4 frame to knock forwards off the puck and keep traffic clear around his own goal.

Future

Johnson will begin his NHL career with the Blues in 2007-08. In time, he could develop into a franchise player.

At the 2006 NHL Entry Draft, Johnson became the first Golden Gopher and Minnesotan ever taken No. 1 overall in the NHL Entry Draft. He also became the first defenseman since Chris Phillips in 1996 to be drafted first overall, the first blueliner with college hockey ties to be chosen No. 1, the second U.S.-born defenseman to go to the No. 1 pick and the fifth U.S.-born player to be drafted first overall.

According to the Post-Dispatch, the contract will be for three years, with a base salary of $765,000 and an $85,000 signing bonus. The contract will also be loaded with incentives that could bring him anywhere from $2 to $3 million per season.

All in good fun!

[O-townClown]

Quack, when my friend described to me what was going on at Made I told him, "wow...a few kids will wind up unbelievably good and most will plateau and eventually find it less enjoyable." Nobody said every kid will burn out.

100 hours of ice time is nothing. I logged way more than that if you count hanging out at the park. But that's a lot different than going to an indoor rink at appointed times to play in a structured environment.

I hope some documentarian follows the Snipers and Grinders for a few years in "Hoop Dreams" fashion.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

O-town,
As long as he's having fun life is good. We all know that kids develop and peak at different times in their lives. A wise man once told me. "Hockey is a marathon not a sprint" So true!

[HockeyDadMN]

MM is a great option to escape association politics alone. Maybe associations will change for the better because there is competition now.

I just wish they had a Peewee league, but I guess that by the time they do, my son will be a Bantam.

[Doglover]

Wouldn't playing the same kids with the same coaches, year after year, on the same two sheets of ice get a bit old by PeeWees? By Peewees there is a State Tournament - maybe Bernie hasn't shared that? Course in Squirts there is the great Fargo tourney too. Wouldn't want to miss that.

[10ouncepuck]

Wouldn't playing the same kids with the same coaches, year after year, on the same two sheets of ice get a bit old by PeeWees? By Peewees there is a State Tournament - maybe Bernie hasn't shared that? Course in Squirts there is the great Fargo tourney too. Wouldn't want to miss that.

Having good coachs, for your kid, is paramount in the youth hockey experience. If you can latch on to them at MM, your association, or any other team it's a blessing. That's why it is great to have competition. That way people can pick and choose based on past experiences. Unfortunately, not everyone has access to the best coaches for one reason or another.

As far as the state tourney and the Fargo tourney not everybody that goes to "Bernies" would get an opportunity to participate in those "venues" otherwise. It would depend on their circumstances.
An option could be if your kid was good enough to move to an association like....lets say.....Edina.

[HockeyDadMN]

"An option could be if your kid was good enough to move to an association like....lets say.....Edina.

Not sure that's a good idea, I think they have already picked the 09/10 teams.

[RussianCircles]

I love this thread. I will say Bernie does do somethings good for hockey and also some bad things for hockey.
I don't like the choice squirt league, these kids need to stay in there associations and play with the kids they will play with through high school. I agree with what Lakeville's board did. If you want to play AAA year round then stay there don't jump back and forth.
Why does Bernie system (seem to me) not improve the play of the goalies of the squirt and mite league's? Is it because a great forward or a stud defense men get all the press in the draft.
I don't as a coach want a player coming back from Bernie or some other AAA program to me to play association as a robot. Kids (my opion) need to play baseball, golf, bike, run, fish and have fun during the summer and not just play hockey year round. Yes some kids/parents love year round hockey and it is good for some, but not all. I would like to see the associations, MN hockey get control of this and not let it get more out of control. AAA hockey is good, but lets not get away from association hockey. I do feel we all need to work together to better hockey in MN, and make it more available to kids that want to play and for those kids that my not be able to pay the thousands of dollars a year to skate year round. We have the best Squirts to the best High School players in the USA and we need to develop them more and build there life skills also, not just there hockey skills and hope to make the NHL.
I do know some parents are keeping there son in the choice league because they feel they will not make the Squirt A team, but have the Squirt A coaches from your association said your son will not make the Squirt A. Who is this hurting? The team? The Player? I feel it hurts some Squirt A teams as they don't get to see a kid at tryouts because he is playing at Bernie's place. I will say this about Bernie, I love the Choice Mite League for the amount of ice time, but don't like the number of kids on the ice and wish they would teach the kids on a small rink also.
Let's get together and make this the place for hockey and teaching are kids some live lessons, not just what can I do to promote my son/daughter and hope they make the show.

[iwearmysunglassesatnight]

[quote="RussianCircles"]I love this thread. I will say Bernie does do somethings good for hockey and also some bad things for hockey.
I don't like the choice squirt league, these kids need to stay in there associations and play with the kids they will play with through high school. I agree with what Lakeville's board did. If you want to play AAA year round then stay there don't jump back and forth.
Why does Bernie system (seem to me) not improve the play of the goalies of the squirt and mite league's? Is it because a great forward or a stud defense men get all the press in the draft.
I don't as a coach want a player coming back from Bernie or some other AAA program to me to play association as a robot. Kids (my opion) need to play baseball, golf, bike, run, fish and have fun during the summer and not just play hockey year round. Yes some kids/parents love year round hockey and it is good for some, but not all. I would like to see the associations, MN hockey get control of this and not let it get more out of control. AAA hockey is good, but lets not get away from association hockey. I do feel we all need to work together to better hockey in MN, and make it more available to kids that want to play and for those kids that my not be able to pay the thousands of dollars a year to skate year round. We have the best Squirts to the best High School players in the USA and we need to develop them more and build there life skills also, not just there hockey skills and hope to make the NHL.
I do know some parents are keeping there son in the choice league because they feel they will not make the Squirt A team, but have the Squirt A coaches from your association said your son will not make the Squirt A. Who is this hurting? The team? The Player? I feel it hurts some Squirt A teams as they don't get to see a kid at tryouts because he is playing at Bernie's place. I will say this about Bernie, I love the Choice Mite League for the amount of ice time, but don't like the number of kids on the ice and wish they would teach the kids on a small rink also.
Let's get together and make this the place for hockey and teaching are kids some live lessons, not just what can I do to promote my son/daughter and hope they make the show.[/quote]

I would imagine we will shortly have a Duck landing with this post.

[iwearmysunglassesatnight]

[quote="RussianCircles"]I love this thread. I will say Bernie does do somethings good for hockey and also some bad things for hockey.
I don't like the choice squirt league, these kids need to stay in there associations and play with the kids they will play with through high school. I agree with what Lakeville's board did. If you want to play AAA year round then stay there don't jump back and forth.
Why does Bernie system (seem to me) not improve the play of the goalies of the squirt and mite league's? Is it because a great forward or a stud defense men get all the press in the draft.
I don't as a coach want a player coming back from Bernie or some other AAA program to me to play association as a robot. Kids (my opion) need to play baseball, golf, bike, run, fish and have fun during the summer and not just play hockey year round. Yes some kids/parents love year round hockey and it is good for some, but not all. I would like to see the associations, MN hockey get control of this and not let it get more out of control. AAA hockey is good, but lets not get away from association hockey. I do feel we all need to work together to better hockey in MN, and make it more available to kids that want to play and for those kids that my not be able to pay the thousands of dollars a year to skate year round. We have the best Squirts to the best High School players in the USA and we need to develop them more and build there life skills also, not just there hockey skills and hope to make the NHL.
I do know some parents are keeping there son in the choice league because they feel they will not make the Squirt A team, but have the Squirt A coaches from your association said your son will not make the Squirt A. Who is this hurting? The team? The Player? I feel it hurts some Squirt A teams as they don't get to see a kid at tryouts because he is playing at Bernie's place. I will say this about Bernie, I love the Choice Mite League for the amount of ice time, but don't like the number of kids on the ice and wish they would teach the kids on a small rink also.
Let's get together and make this the place for hockey and teaching are kids some live lessons, not just what can I do to promote my son/daughter and hope they make the show.[/quote]

I would imagine we will shortly have a Duck landing with this post.

[buttend]

Sunglassman You dont have to wait for the Duck to show

I agree with what Lakeville's board did. If you want to play AAA year round then stay there don't jump back and forth.

I'm sure you will again agree with Lakeville Hockey when this policy gets removed at next months Board meeting. MN Hockey is involved and so are the lawyers!

Why does Bernie system (seem to me) not improve the play of the goalies of the squirt and mite league's? Is it because a great forward or a stud defense men get all the press in the draft.

If a goalie is on the ice during the 1.5 hour practice, skating the drills and having players shooting at him or her that goalie is getting better!. If your question is why does Bernie not have professional goalie instruction, I would ask you what instruction/training do you have for your goalies on the team you coach?

I don't as a coach want a player coming back from Bernie or some other AAA program to me to play association as a robot..

Thats great, you and the parents of "those" kids have something in common, expectations. Those parents dont want their kids coming back from you with bad hockey habits.

I love the Choice Mite League for the amount of ice time, but don't like the number of kids on the ice and wish they would teach the kids on a small rink also.

How many Mite kids are on the ice during your 1.5 hour association practice? Just about every association I know of in the Metro area has direction/stratedgy at the Mite level to be as resourcefull and creative as they can for Mite Practices. Make the most of the ice, keep costs down. keep the kids moving, set up stations. From what I've seen the Mite Choice practices are run very well, great use of ice and time, enough reps and rest, and the ability to set up a couple of small ice games for the kids. Does your accociation have a "small " rink for practice?

Ring! Ring!
Russiancircle: Is Bernie there?
Bearnie: " This is Bernie!"
Russinancircle: "Bernie, Circlejerk here! Hey I have a great idea that you need to listen too"
Bernie: I'm listening C-jerk, whats on your mind?"
Russiancircle: "about that new rink your building, you need to make it a small rink. I love your Choice Mite league but 30 kids on that big sheet of ice is too many, you need less kids and a smaller sheet is ice. Thats the way I see it for development"
Bernie: Click (Hang Up)

[Can't Never Tried]

Sunglassman You dont have to wait for the Duck to show

I agree with what Lakeville's board did. If you want to play AAA year round then stay there don't jump back and forth.

I'm sure you will again agree with Lakeville Hockey when this policy gets removed at next months Board meeting. MN Hockey is involved and so are the lawyers!

Why does Bernie system (seem to me) not improve the play of the goalies of the squirt and mite league's? Is it because a great forward or a stud defense men get all the press in the draft.

If a goalie is on the ice during the 1.5 hour practice, skating the drills and having players shooting at him or her that goalie is getting better!. If your question is why does Bernie not have professional goalie instruction, I would ask you what instruction/training do you have for your goalies on the team you coach?

I don't as a coach want a player coming back from Bernie or some other AAA program to me to play association as a robot..

Thats great, you and the parents of "those" kids have something in common, expectations. Those parents dont want their kids coming back from you with bad hockey habits.

I love the Choice Mite League for the amount of ice time, but don't like the number of kids on the ice and wish they would teach the kids on a small rink also.

How many Mite kids are on the ice during your 1.5 hour association practice? Just about every association I know of in the Metro area has direction/stratedgy at the Mite level to be as resourcefull and creative as they can for Mite Practices. Make the most of the ice, keep costs down. keep the kids moving, set up stations. From what I've seen the Mite Choice practices are run very well, great use of ice and time, enough reps and rest, and the ability to set up a couple of small ice games for the kids. Does your accociation have a "small " rink for practice?

Ring! Ring!
Russiancircle: Is Bernie there?
Bearnie: " This is Bernie!"
Russinancircle: "Bernie, Circlejerk here! Hey I have a great idea that you need to listen too"
Bernie: I'm listening C-jerk, whats on your mind?"
Russiancircle: "about that new rink your building, you need to make it a small rink. I love your Choice Mite league but 30 kids on that big sheet of ice is too many, you need less kids and a smaller sheet is ice. Thats the way I see it for development"
Bernie: Click (Hang Up)

That last part was very creative and funny !

[hiptzech]

I love this thread. I will say Bernie does do somethings good for hockey and also some bad things for hockey.
I don't like the choice squirt league, these kids need to stay in there associations and play with the kids they will play with through high school. I agree with what Lakeville's board did. If you want to play AAA year round then stay there don't jump back and forth.
Why does Bernie system (seem to me) not improve the play of the goalies of the squirt and mite league's? Is it because a great forward or a stud defense men get all the press in the draft.
I don't as a coach want a player coming back from Bernie or some other AAA program to me to play association as a robot. Kids (my opion) need to play baseball, golf, bike, run, fish and have fun during the summer and not just play hockey year round. Yes some kids/parents love year round hockey and it is good for some, but not all. I would like to see the associations, MN hockey get control of this and not let it get more out of control. AAA hockey is good, but lets not get away from association hockey. I do feel we all need to work together to better hockey in MN, and make it more available to kids that want to play and for those kids that my not be able to pay the thousands of dollars a year to skate year round. We have the best Squirts to the best High School players in the USA and we need to develop them more and build there life skills also, not just there hockey skills and hope to make the NHL.
I do know some parents are keeping there son in the choice league because they feel they will not make the Squirt A team, but have the Squirt A coaches from your association said your son will not make the Squirt A. Who is this hurting? The team? The Player? I feel it hurts some Squirt A teams as they don't get to see a kid at tryouts because he is playing at Bernie's place. I will say this about Bernie, I love the Choice Mite League for the amount of ice time, but don't like the number of kids on the ice and wish they would teach the kids on a small rink also.
Let's get together and make this the place for hockey and teaching are kids some live lessons, not just what can I do to promote my son/daughter and hope they make the show.

Take a seat in the corner...Get it? The corner! You are a circle guy....Oh forget it, you wouldn't understand.

[tomASS]

Take a seat in the corner...Get it? The corner! You are a circle guy....Oh forget it, you wouldn't understand.

I was thinking that if you didn't do Russian Circles properly would they be called Russian hendecagons ??

[RussianCircles]

Mr. Buttend.

If I told you about the team I coach you would hear about how we are as coaches, and just how bad we are at teaching the game and all the bad habitts are kids get from us as coaches.

As for goalie coaching. We follow two goalie coaches, Steve Carroll and Bill Howard.

I also thought this forum was for opinions.

[tomASS]

I also thought this forum was for opinions.

Only if they agree with you

I wouldn't be too concerned about a cheap shot.

Those that can't do or teach criticize others

[tomASS]

If a goalie is on the ice during the 1.5 hour practice, skating the drills and having players shooting at him or her that goalie is getting better!.

pretty simplistic thought - however practicing bad or flawed technique, without instruction and correction, only reinforce the bad habits. So in essence the goalie doesn't necessarily get better at the things he should be just because he is skating drills and having shots sent his way.

[Can't Never Tried]

If a goalie is on the ice during the 1.5 hour practice, skating the drills and having players shooting at him or her that goalie is getting better!.

pretty simplistic thought - however practicing bad or flawed technique, without instruction and correction, only reinforce the bad habits. So in essence the goalie doesn't necessarily get better at the things he should be just because he is skating drills and having shots sent his way.

But if you consider he could be on the computer posting smart axe comments instead , I'd say he is getting better.

[Cardiackid]

Newbie here. I might as well jump in, I hear the water is fine.
Bernie keep doing what you do, after all those who want what your selling are getting an excellent product and those who don't can keep walking. Simple, and to the point. This forum is for opinions and all are entitled. My experience is having several boys I have coached skate with Bernie, as well as talking with him at length about philosophy of development and sorry boys he gets it! Look around at how many new programs are trying to emulate what he is doing, must be a reason. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[buttend]

If a goalie is on the ice during the 1.5 hour practice, skating the drills and having players shooting at him or her that goalie is getting better!.

pretty simplistic thought - however practicing bad or flawed technique, without instruction and correction, only reinforce the bad habits. So in essence the goalie doesn't necessarily get better at the things he should be just because he is skating drills and having shots sent his way.

Over simpllfied, simplistic Yes.

Incorrect statement No.

AAA hockey and Association hockey for the most part do not have specific programs for goalie training. I have never seen any advertising for any AAA team where its claiming goalie training/development! Yes, you may have an Association sponsered Goalie clinic at the beginning of the year. Yes, there are some teams( Both AAA and Association) that have that Dad ex- goalie that works with a goalie on the ice. If a goalie is going to get better, its by attending specific goalie clinics and training. From there they have to take that knowledge back to their practices where they skate, and see shots. Hopefully they work on specifics they have learned. For the most part they will not get instruction from the majority of the AAA and Association coaches. Bottom line, a goalie will get better through the skating reps and shots at practice both in and out of season, hopefully that player is also attending some goalie specific training as well.

[tomASS]

If a goalie is going to get better, its by attending specific goalie clinics and training. From there they have to take that knowledge back to their practices where they skate, and see shots. Hopefully they work on specifics they have learned. For the most part they will not get instruction from the majority of the AAA and Association coaches. Bottom line, a goalie will get better through the skating reps and shots at practice both in and out of season, hopefully that player is also attending some goalie specific training as well.

I'm not so much disagreeing with you and your point that playing some hockey is better than playing no hockey as a goalie if you want to get better. However you can take all the training you want from your goalie clinic back to being a point of target practice and if some one is not correcting your mistakes you will be developing bad habits and the skating reps skaters do are not necessarily the ones goalies should work on. It is the quality over quantity argument.

[buttend]

If a goalie is going to get better, its by attending specific goalie clinics and training. From there they have to take that knowledge back to their practices where they skate, and see shots. Hopefully they work on specifics they have learned. For the most part they will not get instruction from the majority of the AAA and Association coaches. Bottom line, a goalie will get better through the skating reps and shots at practice both in and out of season, hopefully that player is also attending some goalie specific training as well.

I'm not so much disagreeing with you and your point that playing some hockey is better than playing no hockey as a goalie if you want to get better. However you can take all the training you want from your goalie clinic back to being a point of target practice and if some one is not correcting your mistakes you will be developing bad habits and the skating reps skaters do are not necessarily the ones goalies should work on. It is the quality over quantity argument.

agreed.

[Marty McSorely]

I ask how the place is doing financially and look what happened.

Some of you need to lighten up! I don't know BM or anything more about his programs then I read here.

My Observation:
1) People are way to jealious and narrow minded!
2) BM's taken a dream or business idea and sold it well apparently.
3) BM's no different then anyone else running a summer or now winter program, it's about making money while developing skill.
4) The world has changed, we may not like it but to keep Minnesota the hockey state, these developemental places (Total Hockey, HDC, MM) need to happen even if the majority can't afford it or don't have the opportunity do to where they live in this great State.

[Can't Never Tried]

I ask how the place is doing financially and look what happened.

Some of you need to lighten up! I don't know BM or anything more about his programs then I read here.

My Observation:
1) People are way to jealious and narrow minded!
2) BM's taken a dream or business idea and sold it well apparently.
3) BM's no different then anyone else running a summer or now winter program, it's about making money while developing skill.
4) The world has changed, we may not like it but to keep Minnesota the hockey state, these developemental places (Total Hockey, HDC, MM) need to happen even if the majority can't afford it or don't have the opportunity do to where they live in this great State.

That's funny Marty as if you had no clue what would happen starting a thread about it.