Minnesota has community-based travel hockey. Some people feel this isn't serious enough and holds back the top players. Hence the Fire and emphasis on year-round programs (whether AAA or McBain clinics, or other).
Here's a story worth remembering that seems to illustrate the point that if a player is good enough they can't/won't be held back by playing at a lower level. At the Southeastern region tryouts for Select 15 this week a house league player named Kyle Bauman beat out a slew of AAA, Tier I players from top teams in the Southeast U.S.
Lest you think kids in this part of the country are lousy, the TPH Thunder split their two games with the Wisconsin Fire during a late-season visit to Minnesota.
The story I heard is that this boy had been a travel player in the past and he/his family felt it would be better to skip it this season. I'm unsure of their reason(s). How much was he held back by not playing travel in the statewide AA league or joining a AAA team playing a national schedule? Not much evidently. He supposedly has made the Select 15 camp. I don't believe he was a Select 14 skater, but he could have been.
And he's not big. 5'7" I'm told.
Kudos to this kid.
I know a lot of people think it is imperative that their child play with the best team possible. It may not matter as much as you think.
Tier I, travel, or house league - surprise in Select 15 (SE)
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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O-townClown
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Tier I, travel, or house league - surprise in Select 15 (SE)
Be kind. Rewind.
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MoreCowBell
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Tenoverpar
- Posts: 514
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TPH
-This kid making it is only another example of it doesn't matter where you're from. Kudos to him and all those like him.
-The only people that don't know hockey is great outside of Minnesota are Minnesotans who think that because we produce the most D-1 players in the US that it's not our numbers, it's our hockey. Wake up, a kid from Pennsylvania is going to the U. Why?
-TPH Thunder draws players from 5 states, not rural western Wisco and scraps from the TC's. Good coaching and dedicated players = development and winning. Are you saying that they shouldn't beat the Fire? Any given day, any team can beat anyone. A puck bounce here, a hot goalie there, it happens. (See USA over Russia 1980)(See Hill Murray over Roseau and then Edina 2008 States, nobody gave the boys from Larpenteur avenue a chance).
- I've read alot of praising of summer hockey and how much fun it is and how there are so many good teams and players playing together. How the tournaments have been great. Just imagine if we had our own Minnesota AAA league with 3 teams from the Cities, 1 from Shattuck, 1 from Duluth/Northeast, 1 from Moorhead/Northwest, tossed in a couple Canadian teams, maybe 1 from Iowa/South, tap into the Wisconsin bed of Madison, Green Bay, Milwaukie, and suddenly you have a league and teams as good or better than any in Chicago/Detroit.
Just a thought...not going to happen, but the talent depth is there for it.
-The only people that don't know hockey is great outside of Minnesota are Minnesotans who think that because we produce the most D-1 players in the US that it's not our numbers, it's our hockey. Wake up, a kid from Pennsylvania is going to the U. Why?
-TPH Thunder draws players from 5 states, not rural western Wisco and scraps from the TC's. Good coaching and dedicated players = development and winning. Are you saying that they shouldn't beat the Fire? Any given day, any team can beat anyone. A puck bounce here, a hot goalie there, it happens. (See USA over Russia 1980)(See Hill Murray over Roseau and then Edina 2008 States, nobody gave the boys from Larpenteur avenue a chance).
- I've read alot of praising of summer hockey and how much fun it is and how there are so many good teams and players playing together. How the tournaments have been great. Just imagine if we had our own Minnesota AAA league with 3 teams from the Cities, 1 from Shattuck, 1 from Duluth/Northeast, 1 from Moorhead/Northwest, tossed in a couple Canadian teams, maybe 1 from Iowa/South, tap into the Wisconsin bed of Madison, Green Bay, Milwaukie, and suddenly you have a league and teams as good or better than any in Chicago/Detroit.
Just a thought...not going to happen, but the talent depth is there for it.
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O-townClown
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- Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town
doesn't make sense to you
I didn't say that. I don't believe he has played Tier I before.MoreCowBell wrote:O-Town your point doesn't make much sense, you said he had played tier 1 in the past, so he has had experience playing at that level. I don't think one year of house would matter, people obviousley knew about him or he wouldn't be asked to try out.
Yes, people are aware of him or he wouldn't have been trying out at the state level. Nobody said he isn't good, just that he chose not to play travel or Tier I hockey this season.
And doesn't seem to have been lapped by his peers.
Be kind. Rewind.
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O-townClown
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In Minnesota
In Minnesota you will see many players (or their parents) that believe players need to play Tier I to develop sufficiently. Granted this is presently a minority, but from posts on this board is seems to be a growing one.RLStars wrote:That's great for him, but in Minnesota, you'll be hard pressed to find any Bantam B players in Advanced tryouts unless that association doesn't have a Bantam A team.
Be kind. Rewind.
In MN you have to be recommended to get to tryout for Adv. 15. I bet some very qualified B1 players get overlooked because the Bantam A coaches/HS coaches are the ones doing the recommending. Also if you happen to not get along with your Bantam A or HS coach, your chances are pretty slim.
Great story, but doubt it would happen in MN, which is unfortunate.
Great story, but doubt it would happen in MN, which is unfortunate.
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conditioningsucks
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:24 am
Otowner
For many, playing AAA in Minnesota isn't always about the intense drive to develop little Johnny. It is often just a better all around experience than association hockey for the players and parents.
With most Minnesota AAA teams, you don't have players who selfishly take dumb penalties game after game but can't be benched because their parents will go psycho. You don't have parents threatening to beat up referees in the parking lot. No parents threatening to shoot a volunteer board member because their kid isn't getting a fair amount of ice time. You have kids that show up at rinks that want to learn and work hard, not beat up the crappy kids on the team and spend half the practice subverting their coaches.
With most AAA teams, parents and kids are on a short leash. Screw up and you get sent to another AAA team dumb enough to take you; or you become damaged goods and are done playing AAA.
Go to a Minnesota AAA game sometime. You will find that the kids play hockey, the parents for the most part shut up and watch rather berating every perceived bad call (because, as we all know, the officials are out to get our kids).
Many people put their kids in AAA for the fact that they are serious about their kid playing good hockey. Association or house leagues may provide community programming, but they are missing the elements that are making AAA grow in Minnesota - development, focused and hard working kids, parents that - for the most part - get it and stay out of the way, none of the association bs (politics, gossip, etc.) that comes with dealing with people in your local community/association.
For many, playing AAA in Minnesota isn't always about the intense drive to develop little Johnny. It is often just a better all around experience than association hockey for the players and parents.
With most Minnesota AAA teams, you don't have players who selfishly take dumb penalties game after game but can't be benched because their parents will go psycho. You don't have parents threatening to beat up referees in the parking lot. No parents threatening to shoot a volunteer board member because their kid isn't getting a fair amount of ice time. You have kids that show up at rinks that want to learn and work hard, not beat up the crappy kids on the team and spend half the practice subverting their coaches.
With most AAA teams, parents and kids are on a short leash. Screw up and you get sent to another AAA team dumb enough to take you; or you become damaged goods and are done playing AAA.
Go to a Minnesota AAA game sometime. You will find that the kids play hockey, the parents for the most part shut up and watch rather berating every perceived bad call (because, as we all know, the officials are out to get our kids).
Many people put their kids in AAA for the fact that they are serious about their kid playing good hockey. Association or house leagues may provide community programming, but they are missing the elements that are making AAA grow in Minnesota - development, focused and hard working kids, parents that - for the most part - get it and stay out of the way, none of the association bs (politics, gossip, etc.) that comes with dealing with people in your local community/association.
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Night Train
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:16 pm
Association & AAA
Nailed it CS.
Average number of penalties in an association season bantam A game, 12-15. I said average. Sometimes that's per team.
Average number of penalties in a AAA season 1994 game, 4.
You tell me which more closely resembles the way the game should be played.
All great kids, and great hockey, we love the AAA season.
Average number of penalties in an association season bantam A game, 12-15. I said average. Sometimes that's per team.
Average number of penalties in a AAA season 1994 game, 4.
You tell me which more closely resembles the way the game should be played.
All great kids, and great hockey, we love the AAA season.
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O-townClown
- Posts: 4451
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:22 pm
- Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town
AAA
The reasons cited for AAA by in as being Minnesotans are the same as why Sun Belt players leave their programs for these all-star teams. There's no difference there.
Here's one tale that illustrates the point that a kid probably won't be lapped if he opts to stay with his normal program.
Here's one tale that illustrates the point that a kid probably won't be lapped if he opts to stay with his normal program.
Be kind. Rewind.
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nickel slots
- Posts: 348
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:24 pm
- Location: Northern Southern Minnesota
Don't forget that the parents are the same whether it's cold & snowy or hot & sunny.Go to a Minnesota AAA game sometime. You will find that the kids play hockey, the parents for the most part shut up and watch rather berating every perceived bad call (because, as we all know, the officials are out to get our kids).
And I've seen plenty of "AAA" games turn into gong shows... we all have. I might even make the argument that some kids take liberties in AAA hockey that they wouldn't for their winter team.
I've seen parents arrested at AAA games that I've never even heard blurt out in the winter time. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of stories out there, but my point is that I don't think most kids play the game any differently and I don't think parents behave any differently. It's just hockey.
Don't sweat the small stuff.
It's all small stuff.
It's all small stuff.
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conditioningsucks
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:24 am
Nickel Slots
Yes, I have seen gong show atmospheres at AAA games. Mainly from teams that are predominately made up of kids from one association. Parents can behave badly in the winter and they think that can be carried over into the summer. Parents have a comfort level with each other and I guess they think its OK to be wackos.
The quality AAA programs make it pretty clear, you and your child are essentially on 'double secret probation' the day you step on the ice. Screw up and you're both gone. No one has time to deal with it when there are one or two families that would kill for the position and opportunities presented.
Association teams are rife with:
- bad attitudes
- usually two kids that are 'season wreckers' due to bullying or other misconduct
- two or three kids who's parents (usually the mom's) think that it is their job to be an 'advocate' for their kid....which ultimately wrecks the coaches experience.
- One or two dads who are overtly vocal at the games to the point that they are an embarrassment to their kid, their kid's team, and their association. The funny thing is, when approached about it they openly state they don't care if they wreck the experience for others.
- At the higher levels, two or three kids that are there because their dads are golfing buds with those with their fingers in the selection process.
I could go on, but my point is that there is a big difference in the expectations of parents and the expected conduct out of players and parents at the AAA levels. Association hockey often is one big three ring circus.
Yes, I have seen gong show atmospheres at AAA games. Mainly from teams that are predominately made up of kids from one association. Parents can behave badly in the winter and they think that can be carried over into the summer. Parents have a comfort level with each other and I guess they think its OK to be wackos.
The quality AAA programs make it pretty clear, you and your child are essentially on 'double secret probation' the day you step on the ice. Screw up and you're both gone. No one has time to deal with it when there are one or two families that would kill for the position and opportunities presented.
Association teams are rife with:
- bad attitudes
- usually two kids that are 'season wreckers' due to bullying or other misconduct
- two or three kids who's parents (usually the mom's) think that it is their job to be an 'advocate' for their kid....which ultimately wrecks the coaches experience.
- One or two dads who are overtly vocal at the games to the point that they are an embarrassment to their kid, their kid's team, and their association. The funny thing is, when approached about it they openly state they don't care if they wreck the experience for others.
- At the higher levels, two or three kids that are there because their dads are golfing buds with those with their fingers in the selection process.
I could go on, but my point is that there is a big difference in the expectations of parents and the expected conduct out of players and parents at the AAA levels. Association hockey often is one big three ring circus.