State "A" Tournaments

[wannagototherink]

minnesotahockey web page has a response to the complaints they are receiving.

A method of protecting themselves by posting what was done and how it was done. Truths, half-truths and lies.

It appears to be demeo that authored teh response to the negative things they have been hearing. But again they lie.

At no time was I told that a vote would take place in April. The committee and meeting minutes do not mention that a vote would be asked for in April. demeo stated in the committee meeting that he would send, by email, everyone a copy. I never received it. The first time I saw it was 8pm Friday night. Brad Hewitt, D6 director, was absent from the meeting because of work, he never saw it until Wednesday or Thursday at the maroon directors' meeting.
He told everyone there he was against it and that his stand-in would be instructed to vote 'no'. His stand in never showed and at the last momnet they had a replacement for Brad that voted 'yes'.

Brad told me if we cannot change it at the June meeting, he will do what he can to make sure it is a one year deal. Unless they get him like they have been trying to get me. I was lied to, called a liar, insulted, and harrassed by a variety of people.

When I say it was a dark day for youth hockey, believe me it was. At a minimum, six people at their worst (or perhaps showing their true colors).

I told a friend that I was done with minnesotahockey.
And to be truthful I have been physically ill since Saturday.
I am not sure if I will or can continue, but I hope that everyone that feels this is wrong sends an email to the board members.

Mark,

whatever you do, please don't quit the fight. The peope of this board, the people in outstate Minnesota, and really the members of Minnesota Hockey need you. I think you can make a splash if you keep fighting. I've heard through the grapevine that the top bantam coaches would be willing to do their best to earn a spot to the state tournament and than elect not to go, and put together their own tournament on by themself. Apparently they've done some research and it would cost them less than 5 hundred dollars to get insurance for the weekend, they will travel to where ever the tournament was going to be held (thief river falls I believe if ice is availble there) and they would run their own tournament...They wouldn't have to sanction it, cause they would play under assumed AAA identities. So there could be no fallout...

Anyway, I know that is what about a dozen of the top bantam programs have discussed, I'm sure if you could show support (ie. a revolution) things could get reversed. Those bantam guys have shown a commitment to what they say they are going to do...just ask stillwater. Like one of them said to me,

"we wouldn't be taking away opportunities, we'd just be creating are own. The state tournament isn't special because MH puts it on, it's special because you are playing a tournament to determine who the best team is in the state that year...we can do that without participating in the MH state tournament."

I think if you want a revolution, you can get it, but you need to lead the charge.

[elliott70]

minnesotahockey web page has a response to the complaints they are receiving.

A method of protecting themselves by posting what was done and how it was done. Truths, half-truths and lies.

It appears to be demeo that authored teh response to the negative things they have been hearing. But again they lie.

At no time was I told that a vote would take place in April. The committee and meeting minutes do not mention that a vote would be asked for in April. demeo stated in the committee meeting that he would send, by email, everyone a copy. I never received it. The first time I saw it was 8pm Friday night. Brad Hewitt, D6 director, was absent from the meeting because of work, he never saw it until Wednesday or Thursday at the maroon directors' meeting.
He told everyone there he was against it and that his stand-in would be instructed to vote 'no'. His stand in never showed and at the last momnet they had a replacement for Brad that voted 'yes'.

Brad told me if we cannot change it at the June meeting, he will do what he can to make sure it is a one year deal. Unless they get him like they have been trying to get me. I was lied to, called a liar, insulted, and harrassed by a variety of people.

When I say it was a dark day for youth hockey, believe me it was. At a minimum, six people at their worst (or perhaps showing their true colors).

I told a friend that I was done with minnesotahockey.
And to be truthful I have been physically ill since Saturday.
I am not sure if I will or can continue, but I hope that everyone that feels this is wrong sends an email to the board members.

Mark,

whatever you do, please don't quit the fight. The peope of this board, the people in outstate Minnesota, and really the members of Minnesota Hockey need you. I think you can make a splash if you keep fighting. I've heard through the grapevine that the top bantam coaches would be willing to do their best to earn a spot to the state tournament and than elect not to go, and put together their own tournament on by themself. Apparently they've done some research and it would cost them less than 5 hundred dollars to get insurance for the weekend, they will travel to where ever the tournament was going to be held (thief river falls I believe if ice is availble there) and they would run their own tournament...They wouldn't have to sanction it, cause they would play under assumed AAA identities. So there could be no fallout...

Anyway, I know that is what about a dozen of the top bantam programs have discussed, I'm sure if you could show support (ie. a revolution) things could get reversed. Those bantam guys have shown a commitment to what they say they are going to do...just ask stillwater. Like one of them said to me,

"we wouldn't be taking away opportunities, we'd just be creating are own. The state tournament isn't special because MH puts it on, it's special because you are playing a tournament to determine who the best team is in the state that year...we can do that without participating in the MH state tournament."

I think if you want a revolution, you can get it, but you need to lead the charge.

Okay,

But remember half of my ashes go to Evenson baseball field, half go to Nymore Arena.

[hockey77coach]

I know this has been brought up before but it's worth repeating. Everything about youth hockey should be focused on the kids. It really doesn't matter what associations, parents, mn hockey, etc. think, as long as the decision is based on what the kids want.

I personally love going to different arena's and having the experience of a small town (or large town) tournament. The energy can be awesome.

With that in mind, I asked my child (who has been to a couple of state tournaments) and a few friends last night about this change. There was not even a discussion, they would all like the opportunity to play at the Xcel Arena. I tried making cases for going out of town and how much fun it is to hang with friends at hotels.

They didn't care......and neither should we.

[GR3343]

I know this has been brought up before but it's worth repeating. Everything about youth hockey should be focused on the kids. It really doesn't matter what associations, parents, mn hockey, etc. think, as long as the decision is based on what the kids want.

I personally love going to different arena's and having the experience of a small town (or large town) tournament. The energy can be awesome.

With that in mind, I asked my child (who has been to a couple of state tournaments) and a few friends last night about this change. There was not even a discussion, they would all like the opportunity to play at the Xcel Arena. I tried making cases for going out of town and how much fun it is to hang with friends at hotels.

They didn't care......and neither should we.

No, by all means. Outstate and northern people shouldn't care at all. Nor should any of us be offended because we "can't host a premier event" because we're not capable.

[DMom]

if just anywhere in their two page list of excuses they listed bringing the game back to the inner city kids, I could see it as a good thing. Let's get the city kids excited about hockey again by having them watch other kids their own age playing. How many high schools within a 20 mile radius of the Ex don't even field a team anymore? That's not the plan. The plan is to tap into the pocketbooks of families whose kids do not play in those games. If I offer my son a choice between going to watch the day of championships and a new stick, he's going to pick the new stick. My checkbook can't handle both. You know that this will be a $150/family deal, what with parking, etc. No, a choice between that and spending it on a wild game or a new stick and it wouldn't even a close.

Did these people not pay attention when the girl's high school game was taken out of the Ex? Okay, the girl's high school game can't draw but the U12 championship can? I don't see the logic.

[whockeyguy]

dear hockey77coach, heres was my sons reply to the same type of question,most memorable time time in hockey . 1 playing in a regional tournament, 2, WATCHING the state A peewee tournament 2 years in row while he was a squirt one in the meotro and one in outstate MN, and now remembering who he seen play and where they are now,,,, got to remember there will be only and hanfull of teams that play at the x and does that offset what Mn Hockey does to the rest of the state--------------- NO WAY


Elliot no need to worry about the ashes thing , i am in firm belief there are some in Mn Hockey that will be burned long before you if this stays the same, and atleast you have one satisfaction, with your ashes, you will be going up and the others that brought this forward will be going down.
REVOLUTION keep up the fight and otheres pass the word , MN Hockey HAS to hear from all

[Stealth]

Howdy Mr. Elliott,

One thing that happens in my mind is communities, associations and residents who get involved to get arenas built, maintained, upgraded or expanded if they are lucky.

But a big part of this is hosting the sport that the arena was intended to for. Hockey games!

Communities go out on a limb to built these structure and volunteers have given there time to bring this money back to the communities that support them to get it built. Ton of pride goes back into doing this.

The EXCEL must be looking for tax write offs, making too much money? Kid hockey events will only tarnish what it means to get to the BIG SHOW. This includes the Christmas Hockey tournament that should be moved. Why should certain school in high school get a chance to feel what it would be like to be at the STATE TOURNAMENT? Unfair advantage? I think so.

Maybe and I just mean maybe? Have the YOUTH event rotate to all the D-1 Arenas around the state for the finial games? AT least then it moves around the state!

[Indians forever]

Howdy Mr. Elliott,

One thing that happens in my mind is communities, associations and residents who get involved to get arenas built, maintained, upgraded or expanded if they are lucky.

But a big part of this is hosting the sport that the arena was intended to for. Hockey games!

Communities go out on a limb to built these structure and volunteers have given there time to bring this money back to the communities that support them to get it built. Ton of pride goes back into doing this.

The EXCEL must be looking for tax write offs, making too much money? Kid hockey events will only tarnish what it means to get to the BIG SHOW. This includes the Christmas Hockey tournament that should be moved. Why should certain school in high school get a chance to feel what it would be like to be at the STATE TOURNAMENT? Unfair advantage? I think so.

Maybe and I just mean maybe? Have the YOUTH event rotate to all the D-1 Arenas around the state for the finial games? AT least then it moves around the state!

You have got to be kidding?????

[HockeyFan55]

Step 1: Get this overturned at the June Meeting

Step 2: Get rid of EVERYONE above the District Director level. It's about time that these self-serving idiots go.

Hopefully, this issue has enough backing to turn MN Hockey around into an organization that is there for the 98% of the YOUTH players that are not ELITE!

This is the time the District Directors need to stand firm, and put MN Hockey back where it belongs.

Start with Mark Jorgenson.

[council member retired]

Anything ever come about regarding Mark Jorgenson and the selling of MNHockey database to www.neehs.com ?

Crooked as a youth baseball foul line

[greybeard58]

CMR
I would bet it was swept under the rug.

All keep the pressure on the MnH board do not let this die after one week. They will get nervous if you can keep it up.

[wannagototherink]

CMR
I would bet it was swept under the rug.

All keep the pressure on the MnH board do not let this die after one week. They will get nervous if you can keep it up.

Couldn't agree more Greybeard...I have been watching and dealing with the MH board for more then 15 years...If there is one thing I'm sure they are waiting for it is that this issue loses steam and they can just move on. If people are truly disgusted by this decision, which IMO they should be, than we must keep up the pressure, they are waiting for us to fold up the tents and just take it, but we can't do that!!!!Keep sending emails, making phone calls and all around keeping the pressure on.


Does anyone know if there is any local media members that would be willing to take up the cause...Maybe like a Mark Rosen or Sid Hartman. I know most people don't take Sid terribly serious, but everyone reads his colum to see what he is spewing...at least if you could get him to put something on paper maybe we could make more people aware of it and possibly get more people to join the cause. Just a thought........Maybe its not news worthy but at this point we should try anything we can...if anyone has any suggestions I'd be happy to try them out.

[goldy313]

I'm not as overtly opposed to this as many are, though the process seems quite dubious. Two things come to mind...

1) From my local association up through the state and on to USA Hockey there seems to be a complete over emphisis on the value each community places on it's youth hockey teams. Aside from parents and kids on the team almost nobody cares whether the local bantam A teams goes 20-0 or 0-20 aside from what it will mean for the future of the high school program. Shattuck which, arguably, has the best youth/HS aged teams in the state draws 50 fans a game, far less than Faribault H.S.. Whatever makes anyone think a bantam game will draw more than 200 is crazy. Add to that classmates can't yet drive even if they care and all this comes at a time when we're completely satuarted with hockey and you have an also ran status getting bigger. Now you're going to tell me that if my team qualifies I'm not only going to have to pay more money but work concessions, sell tickets, etc... ?

2) I wish I had gotten a chance to sell the board some prime ocean front property in Arizona at this meeting because it appears the board bought what the Wild sold them. Did anyone do any kind of cost analysis on this? Roughly the X costs $100,000 a day to rent, that's what they charge the MSHSL at least. (decreased concession revenue -no beer- drives the cost up, figuring the X puts in 17,000 what do you think the cost will be for the youth given how few will attend that?)

I worry that all this really does for nearly every player in Minnesota is drive up costs. As it is I could go to a 6 year old termite practice where there are 100 kids on the ice and all I have to do is look at what the parents annual income is to determine which kids have the most chance to be successful, athletic talent is secondary to what you can spend. Costs prevent too many families from even starting up hockey, then drive families away before their kids hit puberty. MN Hockey won't address this, they'd do better by putting money into scholarships and trying not to lose another generation of kids by pricing them out of hockey. Instead they look at this as some kind of solution and sugarcoat as some kind of grand experiance for the kids. A select minority of kids mind you. If you're going to do this rent the building for a day and play as many games as you can in there with teams from all over the state and from all differnt levels. Give as many kids the chance to play there not the fewest and most select group.

[elliott70]

I'm not as overtly opposed to this as many are, though the process seems quite dubious. Two things come to mind...

1) From my local association up through the state and on to USA Hockey there seems to be a complete over emphisis on the value each community places on it's youth hockey teams. Aside from parents and kids on the team almost nobody cares whether the local bantam A teams goes 20-0 or 0-20 aside from what it will mean for the future of the high school program. Shattuck which, arguably, has the best youth/HS aged teams in the state draws 50 fans a game, far less than Faribault H.S.. Whatever makes anyone think a bantam game will draw more than 200 is crazy. Add to that classmates can't yet drive even if they care and all this comes at a time when we're completely satuarted with hockey and you have an also ran status getting bigger. Now you're going to tell me that if my team qualifies I'm not only going to have to pay more money but work concessions, sell tickets, etc... ?

2) I wish I had gotten a chance to sell the board some prime ocean front property in Arizona at this meeting because it appears the board bought what the Wild sold them. Did anyone do any kind of cost analysis on this? Roughly the X costs $100,000 a day to rent, that's what they charge the MSHSL at least. (decreased concession revenue -no beer- drives the cost up, figuring the X puts in 17,000 what do you think the cost will be for the youth given how few will attend that?)

I worry that all this really does for nearly every player in Minnesota is drive up costs. As it is I could go to a 6 year old termite practice where there are 100 kids on the ice and all I have to do is look at what the parents annual income is to determine which kids have the most chance to be successful, athletic talent is secondary to what you can spend. Costs prevent too many families from even starting up hockey, then drive families away before their kids hit puberty. MN Hockey won't address this, they'd do better by putting money into scholarships and trying not to lose another generation of kids by pricing them out of hockey. Instead they look at this as some kind of solution and sugarcoat as some kind of grand experiance for the kids. A select minority of kids mind you. If you're going to do this rent the building for a day and play as many games as you can in there with teams from all over the state and from all differnt levels. Give as many kids the chance to play there not the fewest and most select group.

Nice post, Goldy.
I may use some of this if that is okay with you.

[pondhockey]

Nice post, Goldy.
I may use some of this if that is okay with you.

There is some interesting discussion on this topic in the girls' forum you may want to take a look at.

[chickendance]

I have read through the long FAQ on why the board felt they should do this. I have only found two reasons provided.

1. They want to give my kid a once in a lifetime experience for the true champion he is.
2. They want to capitalize on a marketing potential.

I for one am truly moved by their concern for providing my kid a once in a lifetime experience. Takes all that responsibility off of me. Thank's guys...I can go fishing now.

I would love to see the presentation information on the how much they can gain in net revenue from this approach. My guess is we will see all of our fees go down, better programs, a rink on every corner, free equipment and a chicken in every pot.

How can this be a bad idea? I think there will be a stampede for those coveted "allied association" spots.

[really?]

I know this has been brought up before but it's worth repeating. Everything about youth hockey should be focused on the kids. It really doesn't matter what associations, parents, mn hockey, etc. think, as long as the decision is based on what the kids want.

I personally love going to different arena's and having the experience of a small town (or large town) tournament. The energy can be awesome.

With that in mind, I asked my child (who has been to a couple of state tournaments) and a few friends last night about this change. There was not even a discussion, they would all like the opportunity to play at the Xcel Arena. I tried making cases for going out of town and how much fun it is to hang with friends at hotels.

They didn't care......and neither should we.

That all sounds good on the face of it but besides disenfranchising all the outstate associations (huge mistake) - and fully recognizing that adults very consistently screw up large portions of childhood --- There are still times when the perspective and experience of adulthood should trump "what the kids want"...

If left on their own, kids would likely want a milkshake with every meal, no school on Mondays, Wednesdays, & Fridays and and the legal driving age reduced to 13...

Kids can't always see or appreciate the potential consequences of their decisions. Parents need to step in on issues like this and debate the pros & cons and ensure a fair process is used to arrive at any decision that will affect all these kids and their families.

It's not as simple as "what the kids want".

I still say - (our experience has been) an empty Xcel is a bore...

[goldy313]

Mark, I never mind if my comments get used, every so often I have a good one....

At breakfast the other morning I brought up this topic and a couple of people think it's a very god idea, however they also truly believe that the success of a youth hockey team is directly related to the success of RYHA as a whole. I'm of the mind set that it's participants first not success. Listening to the discussion further set my mind that this is a bad idea. In order for a few, very few, kids to have a chance to maybe play at the X was worth stacking teams, going back to 1 A team, etc. This would drive associations to further limit chances for more kids in order to push the select few.

As it is only a select minority of Associations play for a state championship anyhow and these are the largest associations in the state In the past 8 years only 3 of the 16 Bantam teams were outstate and 2 of the 16 Peewee teams were outstate. So the question begs to be asked is this truly for the entire state or just kids from Edina, Eden Prairie, Centennial, Wayzata, and White Bear Lake? If it were for the entire state and if goodwill were truly meant to be done MN Hockey would rent the building and let each district play a game there. Why does a kid from Redwood Falls, Austin, Edison, Detroit Lakes, or Ely not deserve a chance to play at the X if it's truly about experiance? Didn't the entire state pay taxes to build this building? Don't kids from Redwood Falls, Austin, Edison, Detroit Lakes, and Ely also pay fees to MN Hockey?

I guess it's my opinion that if you're going to rent the X for a Sunday it should be for the reasons of giving as many kids a great experiance not just the very few whom happen to live in a certain place.

[wannagototherink]

Elliott,

Do you know what kind of pressure has been put on the MH board as far as the number of emails/letters the board members have received? It seems as if this issue is already losing steam on this board and if it is I am curious to find out what kind of heat has been put on board members. If we don't send our emails, write our letters and letting these people know how angry we are, than we have no one to blame but ourselves. Just curious if you know.

[Iceburg]

How long is Minnesota Hockey committing to this? Any chance it's tried once or twice and then things go back to normal? The same basic thing was tried in '71, '72 and '73 at the old Met Center and was then discontinued. Not sure if it was financial reasons or what.

[council member retired]

To me this all about the dollar... how much can MN Hockey gain financially.
This is their answer to Bernie and the Fire..? GROW UP

What this will do is make more coaches play 1 to 2 lines, develop less kids as they think league game 1 is the beginning of the stanley cup... and you are niave to think different. MN Hockey is not interested in developing and offering more kids an opportunity to love the game with this decision.. DeMeo you sir need to resign now.

[O-townClown]

Evidently Braemar was half-full for the final this year. Two years ago New Hope Arena was packed when Centennial beat Edina. Just a rough guess, but I'd say 3,000 folks. ?? 2,000? I had to park pretty far and walk.

I don't think this will draw 5,000 people any time soon, but never underestimate the interest in high level youth sports. When ESPN2 made the bold decision to air a high school basketball game they were able to promote it on their NCAA telecasts. Result. **this is not a typo**

St. Vincent-St. Mary's with Lebron James propelled 'the Deuce' to its 2nd most viewers ever, and most for a regularly scheduled show. (Even more surprising is that the most-watched ESPN2 show ever was Dale's funeral.)

Today HS basketball is on many stations. ESPNU even shows the AAU National Championships from Walt Disney World in the summer.

Hockey in front of empty seats doesn't go very well. Hopefully they either find a lot of fans in a hurry or choose a more intimate venue.

[elliott70]

How long is Minnesota Hockey committing to this? Any chance it's tried once or twice and then things go back to normal? The same basic thing was tried in '71, '72 and '73 at the old Met Center and was then discontinued. Not sure if it was financial reasons or what.

In 1974 they adopted the gold - maroon switch every year.
Prior to that it was bid on by presentation to the board.
Several outstate tourneys followed by a string fo tourneys at Bloomington and So St Paul.

Basic reason was that the tourneys belonged to the state memebership not the board. Spread it around as much as possible will be good for everyone, economically and in terms of promoting the sport.

The tourney belongs to the members of MN Hockey. The members are the local assn.

As for the kids deciding....
that has been answered, I guess.

[FREDFLINTSTONE]

O-town,

So were people turned away at the gates for that state 'ship game? Think about it. Is that not the perfect playing environment.....a full house? The one thing about Lebran Jimmy. Everyone in the country had heard of this kid because of his Hummer he received (automobile). Name one bantam or peewee with that following? ESPN doesn't even put college hockey on any of its stations (ESPNU for regions?). What makes anyone think that Minnesota youth hockey will find its way to ESPN?

[elliott70]

Hosting the state tourneys throughout the state is not supposed to be about money (it does have something to do with the MH board vote).

The tournaments were to be held across the state to allow every part of the state to experience it, to repay the volunteers across the state with the honor and right to be the host (and take on the work with it), to allow kids and families to experience something different than what they have at home, and to share the wealth for the communities that put money up to defray the cost of the hockey experience.

These events belong to the membership of Minnesota Hockey. They do not belong to the MH board. The board has a responsibility to its membership, just as the members have a responsibility to follow the adopted rules.




For the kids?
Sure, but to what degree. Do we ask kids where to build their schools, who their teachers should be, if they should study this religion or that, or what menu they want for tonight's dinner?
Of course we don't (or shouldn't).

The people in charge of kids hockey (that is the parents, coaches, refs, and administrators) need to make organized hockey fun for kids (among other things such as making them better at the game, but also giving them the opportunity to learn life lessons).
When a player is not having fun because he has to go to Rochester for the state tournament instead of the 'X'; then you do not have a player, but a spoiled little kid.