eastranger19 wrote:Most of the kids are legit. but it's the small amount that get chosen because of the evaluators and how they can market the players, some should'nt have made the 54 list let alone this list, same as the 16's. I said before I heard team coaches and fathers were evaluators for range kids, and maybe even the cities kids, they should not even be involved. Schmidt making it without trying out and Lapic moving to forward after playing Def. the whole tryout is not right, should they be there, yes, they are 2 of the best. Maybe they should list the evaluators and what they base there decisions on, how can you go by stats or how a player does during the season with the different strength of schedules, example Edina's versus Virginia's schedule, night & day. Also suprised Rehkamp & montgomery were not on the list either.I heard some parents of younger kids say they don't even want there kids to tryout anymore it's become such a joke here. Did any of these kids that made it, or even Schmidt an Lapic have fathers or coaches involved in the evaluation? That would be embarrasing for the kids.
Lapic has a full ride to wisconsin and your saying he made the national team because of a father or a coach. haha face it hes good!
No I did'nt say he made it because of a father or a coach, just asked if either had a father or coach evaluating. I said they are 2 of the best, some of the kids are'nt, Lapic is probably a better defenseman than most of the defenseman chosen, he is that good of a player, he should have been taken as a defenseman or played as a forward. Look at the list of forwards not taken, maybe they should move them to defense. I think they should just hand pick who they want and take them right away, or do you think it could be a MONEY MAKER!!!
Why is it whenever someone on the "bored" is doesn't agree with the way a team is picked, etc. they call it a money maker. Do the math and tell me how much money is being made on this and who is making it. It's not hard to figure out...in fact Minnesota Hockey makes it public knowledge how these camps do financially. Please, tell me who is making money.
Now I have to get back to work and make some money of my own.
Edit - I decided to wait a couple of extra minutes to make my money and add this thought: As much as people like to complain about the tryout process, what if MN Hockey just sent 20 players to the national camp without a tryout? First, there would be a huge outcry with people screaming "politics" much louder than they do now. Second, I can assure the roster would look much different than it does after the tryout.
can anyone tell me where Max Tardy is on this list??? As a big Duluth East fan, I am shocked that this D1 recruit is no where? Did he not tryout? Thought he committed like 2 years ago, anyone?
puckhead9 wrote:
Lapic has a full ride to wisconsin and your saying he made the national team because of a father or a coach. haha face it hes good!
No I did'nt say he made it because of a father or a coach, just asked if either had a father or coach evaluating. I said they are 2 of the best, some of the kids are'nt, Lapic is probably a better defenseman than most of the defenseman chosen, he is that good of a player, he should have been taken as a defenseman or played as a forward. Look at the list of forwards not taken, maybe they should move them to defense. I think they should just hand pick who they want and take them right away, or do you think it could be a MONEY MAKER!!!
Why is it whenever someone on the "bored" is doesn't agree with the way a team is picked, etc. they call it a money maker. Do the math and tell me how much money is being made on this and who is making it. It's not hard to figure out...in fact Minnesota Hockey makes it public knowledge how these camps do financially. Please, tell me who is making money.
Now I have to get back to work and make some money of my own.
Edit - I decided to wait a couple of extra minutes to make my money and add this thought: As much as people like to complain about the tryout process, what if MN Hockey just sent 20 players to the national camp without a tryout? First, there would be a huge outcry with people screaming "politics" much louder than they do now. Second, I can assure the roster would look much different than it does after the tryout.
I disagree, First, anybody could pick 15 of the 20 and there would be no arguements, that's why schmidt's there. Second, it would look almost the same as now, except the 5 or so who as somebody said early, have a coach or parent with there head up someone's _ _ _. That's Politics. Where do you find the public financial knowledge how the camps do, does'nt it cost the players more each time they advance, plus don't they charge for attendance at the games, or does that go to the evaluators who can choose there player or even son or daughter. I don't disagree how it's done, I agree there should'nt be anybody with ties to the players involved because they will ruin the intended process. I would bet most players at whichever age group know for sure which 10 to 15 players will make it everytime, but it's the competition that keeps the others trying for those 5 or 10 spots left, not the money it costs, so give them a fair shot with the right evaluators in place.
While I have no doubt that there are occasional missteps in the process, there will be a certain percentage of people that will complain no matter who makes it. That's just the way it is in a state with a good number of good players.
Gopher Blog -- what is your opinion of the team? any surprises in your mind?
I'll restate my original question to the rest of the folks on here -- since everyone is complaining who deserved to make it and who has made it because they have they or their parents have their heads up someones _ _ _.
In an open forum such as this, if you are going to cry out against a player or your opinion on a situation as you see it, you should at least throw out the details of your case. In this case, who is deserving and not deserving and why?
Gopher Blog wrote:While I have no doubt that there are occasional missteps in the process, there will be a certain percentage of people that will complain no matter who makes it. That's just the way it is in a state with a good number of good players.
Not saying any are not deserving, they are all good. Why would MN hockey, with all the qualified people out there, allow the integrity of this event be called into question by allowing a parent to be an evaluater? It is unneccessary and unseemly. These past comments are a result of that. The kid is a very good player without a doubt. Why have his selection called into question by having dad picking?
CU is completely correct. With all the very well qualified hockey people in MN, why tarnish the process with a parent? There are a lot of people who can judge the talent, discuss it and be able to get beyond the politics of who to chose. Even if the parent is "perfect" in his evaluations and the blood line does not cloud his judgement, why even have the impression of a conflict? Pretty simple, if you have a kid in a MN Select tryout, you are not allowed to evaluate.
I dont want to sound like the typical whiner, but I am wondering how a player can make it to the final 200 for the past three years running, be in constant held in high regards by ushl but not make the final 54. I am speaking of Matt Johnson from stillwater. There are a handfull of kids that I know personally that do not belong on there especially to be taken over Matt Johnson......
I do not want to name the kids, its not fair to take that away from them. They know who they are. You know when someone is a more complete player than you are, Matt has skated with them for years. There just happens to be four "Hill" kids that made it and that seems to be because they won the title this year. I know one of them is a fourth line player and I know there isnt one team that has that much depth. The tourney hasnt been over for enough time for a fourth liner to become a top 51 in the state.
bananastick wrote:Minnesota Hockey National 17 List
Position First Name Last Name
Defense Mark Alt
Defense Joe Faust Defense Nick Leddy
Defense Garrett Orhn Defense Nate Schmidt
Forward Schyler Adams Forward Josh Birkholz Forward Zach Budish
Forward Connor Gaarder
Forward Caleb Herbert
Forward Cody Hotchkin
Forward Isaac Kohls Forward Tyler Lapic Forward Nick Oliver
Forward Ryan Reilly Forward Ryan Walters
Forward Tyler Zepeda
Goalie Matt Hemingway
Goalie Alex Fons
Let me ask you, Is this system about DEVELOPMENT or EXPOSURE? I belive the kids I highlighted already have committed to D1 schools and a few have turned down UNDTP. So why not open the door for a few others? Most on here say some of the weekend tournaments aren't worth the time and money as there is no DEVELOPMENT they are only money makers and you don't get better by just playing games. Isn't that what this is? I also agree I would take Matt Johnson or Tyler Pitlick over the Reilly kid any day. Also a goalie that I haven't seen on 17 or 16 list that should have made it is that HART kid from IFalls he was lights out at Gopher State playing against most of the same kids in 16s and 17s. Anyone know which group he would have been in? 91s or 92s?
I definetly dont deny the majority of kids that made it were well deserving of being there. My problem is that why would you hold back a player because he already has alot of exposure from the develpoment program. There are two questions asked by d-1 schools, how many points did you have in your regular season and did you make it out of your state in the selects. Maybe it wont effect furthering his hockey career, it may even speed it up, there are rumors that he may forgo his senior year and go on to juniors. I just find it frustrating that the people who pick the final grouping would have there own personal agenda rather than the feilding the best players available. Bottom line, it is an exposure camp but if you dont make it there it can have a negative effect on a player, theres alot of great hockey players out there and you need every chance of showing off your talent as you can.
That fourth-liner your talking about played second line for the majority of hill-murrays year and was hurt part of year. had a large power play and penalty kill role, and is alternate this year. And is getting looks from mankato. so before you start running your mouth get your facts right. I will defend the hill-boys all day long, zepeda,westerhaus, jordan johnson, and kohls all have bright hockey futures and i enjoy wathcing them every season and escpecially this season and boy you sure do sound like your related to matt, saying he has skated with them for years.... bitching on this forum is not going to change anything. yes matt johnson should have been there we all know it, evaluaters make mistakes. This forum is not supposed to be some ego builder by putting other players down. And why wouldn't the top team in state send the most kids? I think it shows mabey they were to most talented team??? Just a thought.
D1 schools look far beyond thouse narrow minded questions as well. If they only asked thouse two questions why would they ever ask a coach about the player, scout them as much as possible, talk to them when aloud, have an 18 or better on s.a.t. an genuinly get to know the kid. I.e. Blake Wheeler. (never made selects) hill-murrays top point getter dan cecka (no selects) (Fuerne) (phillipi) selects is not the end-all be all.
P.s. i think matt will be fine, he is on the only team with an x-pro coaching. Think he gets plenty of exsposure everyday at practice
weird how hill-murray has the most 91's from minnesota with one already drafted last year.
Csto Chris Hill Murray Prep 91 D
French Monte Hill Murray Prep 91 RC Johnson Jordan Hill Murray Prep 91 LD Kohls Issac Hill Murray Prep 91 RC
Prescott Paul Hill Murray Prep 91 LC Westerhaus Jeff Hill Murray Prep 91 F
Widing Nick Hill Murray Prep 91 LW
But they definitly should not have been in selects contention
It looks like another Hill Murray player will also be headin to ST. Cloud in the selects Nick Widing was just listed as making it for the Central District Tryouts in Chicago. SO he will also be attending the select 17 in ST. Cloud. I doubt if the judges in Chicago were watching the state tourney in Minnesota.
hcky09 wrote:It looks like another Hill Murray player will also be headin to ST. Cloud in the selects Nick Widing was just listed as making it for the Central District Tryouts in Chicago. SO he will also be attending the select 17 in ST. Cloud. I doubt if the judges in Chicago were watching the state tourney in Minnesota.
Nick did the Select 14s, 15s and 16s with Central District so don't tell us like we should be surprised.
bananastick wrote:Minnesota Hockey National 17 List
Position First Name Last Name
Defense Mark Alt
Defense Joe Faust Defense Nick Leddy
Defense Garrett Orhn Defense Nate Schmidt
Forward Schyler Adams Forward Josh Birkholz Forward Zach Budish
Forward Connor Gaarder
Forward Caleb Herbert
Forward Cody Hotchkin
Forward Isaac Kohls Forward Tyler Lapic Forward Nick Oliver
Forward Ryan Reilly Forward Ryan Walters
Forward Tyler Zepeda
Goalie Matt Hemingway
Goalie Alex Fons
Let me ask you, Is this system about DEVELOPMENT or EXPOSURE? I belive the kids I highlighted already have committed to D1 schools and a few have turned down UNDTP. So why not open the door for a few others? Most on here say some of the weekend tournaments aren't worth the time and money as there is no DEVELOPMENT they are only money makers and you don't get better by just playing games. Isn't that what this is? I also agree I would take Matt Johnson or Tyler Pitlick over the Reilly kid any day. Also a goalie that I haven't seen on 17 or 16 list that should have made it is that HART kid from IFalls he was lights out at Gopher State playing against most of the same kids in 16s and 17s. Anyone know which group he would have been in? 91s or 92s?
This process is not about development or exposure. It's about identifying the top kids in that age group via tryout.
If Tyler Pitlick chose prom over a portion of the tryout he made a decision on what was more important to him. If he is upset about not making the Advance 17 National camp he needs to look in the mirror.
Is it possible Ryan Reilly had a better tryout than Matt Johnson? I don't know, maybe Matt didn't show his best that weekend and the Reilly lad did. That's why it's considered a tryout .......... not what did you do in the high school season.
bananastick wrote:Minnesota Hockey National 17 List
Position First Name Last Name
Defense Mark Alt
Defense Joe Faust Defense Nick Leddy
Defense Garrett Orhn Defense Nate Schmidt
Forward Schyler Adams Forward Josh Birkholz Forward Zach Budish
Forward Connor Gaarder
Forward Caleb Herbert
Forward Cody Hotchkin
Forward Isaac Kohls Forward Tyler Lapic Forward Nick Oliver
Forward Ryan Reilly Forward Ryan Walters
Forward Tyler Zepeda
Goalie Matt Hemingway
Goalie Alex Fons
Let me ask you, Is this system about DEVELOPMENT or EXPOSURE? I belive the kids I highlighted already have committed to D1 schools and a few have turned down UNDTP. So why not open the door for a few others? Most on here say some of the weekend tournaments aren't worth the time and money as there is no DEVELOPMENT they are only money makers and you don't get better by just playing games. Isn't that what this is? I also agree I would take Matt Johnson or Tyler Pitlick over the Reilly kid any day. Also a goalie that I haven't seen on 17 or 16 list that should have made it is that HART kid from IFalls he was lights out at Gopher State playing against most of the same kids in 16s and 17s. Anyone know which group he would have been in? 91s or 92s?
This process is not about development or exposure. It's about identifying the top kids in that age group via tryout.
If Tyler Pitlick chose prom over a portion of the tryout he made a decision on what was more important to him. If he is upset about not making the Advance 17 National camp he needs to look in the mirror.
Is it possible Ryan Reilly had a better tryout than Matt Johnson? I don't know, maybe Matt didn't show his best that weekend and the Reilly lad did. That's why it's considered a tryout .......... not what did you do in the high school season.
Sorry but your logic doesn't fly. Nate Schmidt didn't even tryout and made it, Tyler has been on these teams and as involved as Nate Schmidt has so why the pass for one and not the other? As for Matt I know he will be just fine.
Pucknutz69 wrote:
Let me ask you, Is this system about DEVELOPMENT or EXPOSURE? I belive the kids I highlighted already have committed to D1 schools and a few have turned down UNDTP. So why not open the door for a few others? Most on here say some of the weekend tournaments aren't worth the time and money as there is no DEVELOPMENT they are only money makers and you don't get better by just playing games. Isn't that what this is? I also agree I would take Matt Johnson or Tyler Pitlick over the Reilly kid any day. Also a goalie that I haven't seen on 17 or 16 list that should have made it is that HART kid from IFalls he was lights out at Gopher State playing against most of the same kids in 16s and 17s. Anyone know which group he would have been in? 91s or 92s?
This process is not about development or exposure. It's about identifying the top kids in that age group via tryout.
If Tyler Pitlick chose prom over a portion of the tryout he made a decision on what was more important to him. If he is upset about not making the Advance 17 National camp he needs to look in the mirror.
Is it possible Ryan Reilly had a better tryout than Matt Johnson? I don't know, maybe Matt didn't show his best that weekend and the Reilly lad did. That's why it's considered a tryout .......... not what did you do in the high school season.
Sorry but your logic doesn't fly. Nate Schmidt didn't even tryout and made it, Tyler has been on these teams and as involved as Nate Schmidt has so why the pass for one and not the other? As for Matt I know he will be just fine.
Schmidt was at the 54 - I sat and watched him for a couple of games. Pitlick did not have his best tryout but is a nice player and will be just fine.
As for Schmidt not being at the original Festival because he was hurt, Pitlick would have been given the same pass to the 54's as would a dozen other kids in the same situation.
Pucknutz69 wrote:
Let me ask you, Is this system about DEVELOPMENT or EXPOSURE? I belive the kids I highlighted already have committed to D1 schools and a few have turned down UNDTP. So why not open the door for a few others? Most on here say some of the weekend tournaments aren't worth the time and money as there is no DEVELOPMENT they are only money makers and you don't get better by just playing games. Isn't that what this is? I also agree I would take Matt Johnson or Tyler Pitlick over the Reilly kid any day. Also a goalie that I haven't seen on 17 or 16 list that should have made it is that HART kid from IFalls he was lights out at Gopher State playing against most of the same kids in 16s and 17s. Anyone know which group he would have been in? 91s or 92s?
This process is not about development or exposure. It's about identifying the top kids in that age group via tryout.
If Tyler Pitlick chose prom over a portion of the tryout he made a decision on what was more important to him. If he is upset about not making the Advance 17 National camp he needs to look in the mirror.
Is it possible Ryan Reilly had a better tryout than Matt Johnson? I don't know, maybe Matt didn't show his best that weekend and the Reilly lad did. That's why it's considered a tryout .......... not what did you do in the high school season.
Sorry but your logic doesn't fly. Nate Schmidt didn't even tryout and made it, Tyler has been on these teams and as involved as Nate Schmidt has so why the pass for one and not the other? As for Matt I know he will be just fine.
From what I heard, Schmidt missed the top 100 weekend because of injury. There were J.V. kids in the mix at that point. A non-hockey person could have sat in the stands and plucked out players that were not high caliber and shouldn't move on to the 54s. Because of his history, I would give a player like Schmidt a hall pass like that any day. I would have give the same courtesy to Pitlick if he had a similar situation.
In my opinion, the top 54s is a different story. Pitlick rolled the dice and came up short.
MNHockeyFan wrote:I have no horse in this race but I will say that they really need to get the dads out of the whole evaluation process. In fact an argument can be made that high school coaches should not be evaluators of kids who they've coached personally.
Agreed, college or junior coaches should be the evaluators. They have the eye for the talent although with all of the early verbals that are happening now, that could open up a whole new can of worms although those kids have already been identified as being worthy of advancing to the National camp. No problems with that at all. No matter what you do, there will always be some flaws in it. What I love watching is certain Dads who have there nose up every scout, coach and even agents a--. They definately know how to play the system and for some, it works in their kids favor.
That is the funniest thing I have ever heard you say....Anyone who knows you would have to say you are the biggest a-- kiss in southern MN. Your boys can play hockey but for some reason you still choose to try to pad their way. I am sorry they didn't make it, I think Tyler would have done great.
MNHockeyFan wrote:I have no horse in this race but I will say that they really need to get the dads out of the whole evaluation process. In fact an argument can be made that high school coaches should not be evaluators of kids who they've coached personally.
Agreed, college or junior coaches should be the evaluators. They have the eye for the talent although with all of the early verbals that are happening now, that could open up a whole new can of worms although those kids have already been identified as being worthy of advancing to the National camp. No problems with that at all. No matter what you do, there will always be some flaws in it. What I love watching is certain Dads who have there nose up every scout, coach and even agents a--. They definately know how to play the system and for some, it works in their kids favor.
That is the funniest thing I have ever heard you say....Anyone who knows you would have to say you are the biggest a-- kiss in southern MN. Your boys can play hockey but for some reason you still choose to try to pad their way. I am sorry they didn't make it, I think Tyler would have done great.
Wow Captain, since you are calling me out, please elaborate on the above post. If you mean teaching kids that nothing is given to you and you have to work hard to earn it is padding their way. then so be it. But by the sound of your post, you make it sound like I somehow "buy" their way. Believe me, they have had their share of disappointments, so I guess your theory of me "padding" there way goes by the wayside. And if you "know me so well" private message me and let me know who you are and we can go from there
Captain - Why the hostility towards Davey? Most of us know who he is and most of us know he's not the person you are trying to portray him to be. What gives?
Don't sweat the small stuff.
It's all small stuff.
and boy you sure do sound like your related to matt, saying he has skated with them for years.... bitching on this forum is not going to change anything. yes matt johnson should have been there we all know it, evaluaters make mistakes. This forum is not supposed to be some ego builder by putting other players down. And why wouldn't the top team in state send the most kids? I think it shows mabey they were to most talented team??? Just a thought.