dherman8 wrote:That sucks. It's a shame but was there any chance of this team ever going to state being Moorhead and Roseau are in the section?
Is "going to state" the only reason to have boys hockey team???
Any time you take away an extracurricular activity from kids, it hurts, regardless of whether the team is good or bad.
I coached volleyball in two different schools. In one school we won three games in two years, in the other we had a district championship. While I enjoyed the winning, I think the kids on the 3-win team had just as much fun and enjoyed being on the team as the ones on the other team.
hockeymind.....Thanks for having a sense of humor.
elliott..
The only problem with what you posted is that the decision to make the cuts comes in a couple of weeks and goes into effect for next school year. The next referendum vote won't come until November, and the money from the referendum - if it passes - won't come until the 2009-10 school year.
dherman8 wrote:That sucks. It's a shame but was there any chance of this team ever going to state being Moorhead and Roseau are in the section?
Is "going to state" the only reason to have boys hockey team???
Any time you take away an extracurricular activity from kids, it hurts, regardless of whether the team is good or bad.
I coached volleyball in two different schools. In one school we won three games in two years, in the other we had a district championship. While I enjoyed the winning, I think the kids on the 3-win team had just as much fun and enjoyed being on the team as the ones on the other team.
Sorry, just pointing that out. I completely agree with you. There is more to sports than winning (some people might see that as a shocker) The whole experience of just playing for your high school and being part of a team can build character as well. I know I would never give up the experiences of mine. Playing a game you love is always fun. There is much to be learned no matter how talented and good a team is because even if you lose, those are the breaks and the real world is like that sometimes. Like I said before, it's a shame this is happening. And, being my school went through the same thing when I was attending, I must say i'm surprised Brainerd would cut hockey. I don't know how many kids are on the team but Brainerd is a decent sized town and we are the state of hockey. That's one of the core high school sports here in MN.
This whole AA/A, public/private tournament is placing Minnesota high school hockey in jeopardy. If the tournament continues as is, we in Mn. are in danger of loosing high school hockey as we know it. Of course, we are not there yet but, it will happen. The tournament is turnning into a championship that is not attainable for many of our kids because they do not have the opportunity to play for a large power house school or a tuitioned high school for whatever the reason ie: affordability accessability etc.. . Soon kids will start to loose interest because they will beleive that the tournament is only a pipe dream not something that they can actually attain. Forget north/south rivalries etc... How sad. Will Minnesota become like the east coast where if you have any skill or want to play you have to go to a prep school? The high school programs in the east number a handful and they don't even play the prep schools. Put the tuitioned high schools in their own section in AA. Then in the tournament we will have the best of the privates taking on the rest of the state. If a smaller school wants to opt up, they can but, any one who is going to a school for the "superior" education also has to play in the "superior" tier. "The State of Hockey" only pertains to a privileged few-what a joke.
I submitted this post March 7th who knew it would be so relevant the very next week!!! It is a very sad day for all Minnesota hockey lovers when something like this happens. Soon it will only be only the traditional power house and the private high schools that will be playing in the tourney. What everyone needs to remember is the kid from Sleepy Eye or Ely has as much passion for the game as the kid from STA but because they don't win games and don't make a trip to the tourney are they not as deserving to have the opportunities to play for their community? I hope the people in Brainard can work it out.
The MSHSL is funded by member fees, not revenue. The money made is returned to it's member schools, the schools can do with it what they want but the MSHSL doesn't keep the extra revenue.
My community has 3 times in the last 10 years made budget cuts that would eliminate all under varsity sports. Later, as cooler heads prevailed, these cuts were overturned and particiaption fees increased. $140 for all sports except hockey which is $275. I guess I wouldn't be so sure that this is the last word in Brainerd, someone or some group will come up with a plan that will help, it just takes a little time to put it together. You can raise fees, cut the number of games, cut the number of paid coaches, work out deals with the community and Park and Rec to save money. These are all things Rochester has done to save their programs. It's really little more than buying time and given the price of heating schools, new technology, etc. it's little more than a band aid on a bullet wound but it delays the end of HS sports..
I don't know about all private schools, but the one my kids went to had fees for sports in the high $200's plus a couple hundred more to pay for new helmets, nets, bases, uniforms or whatever. This is because there is NO state funding for private schools.
Charliedog wrote:I don't know about all private schools, but the one my kids went to had fees for sports in the high $200's plus a couple hundred more to pay for new helmets, nets, bases, uniforms or whatever. This is because there is NO state funding for private schools.
AND you paid for the public school kids with your taxes. I get tired of the "private vs. public" argument, but you cannot tell me that the private schools are the reason that Brainerd is in jeopardy of losing HS hockey. That is the most uneducated argument I have ever heard. So if you go back to one tournament and eliminate the private schools, Ely and Sleep Eye will have a better chance of getting in?
It's all about the $$ and the fact that the schools need to educate first and the tax payers are tired of it appearing that sports are more important. I'm not saying it's true, but that is what is going on out there.
Save the sinking ship in Brainerd. I hate to see us lose a program, but just watch, it's going to happen over time..
AngusYoung wrote:Why will it be a "disgrace" if Brainerd does not have a HS hockey program? Why does Brainerd hockey need to be saved?
It appears to me that the voters of the referendum spoke loud and clear that this potential cut as well as others are OK with them. It would also appear that this is an excellent opportunity for impacted parents to look at organizing and starting a private school in this community. If you want to play, you have to pay.
AY
Couldn't agree more AY. You hit the nail on the head.
goldy313 wrote:The MSHSL is funded by member fees, not revenue. The money made is returned to it's member schools, the schools can do with it what they want but the MSHSL doesn't keep the extra revenue.
My community has 3 times in the last 10 years made budget cuts that would eliminate all under varsity sports. Later, as cooler heads prevailed, these cuts were overturned and particiaption fees increased. $140 for all sports except hockey which is $275. I guess I wouldn't be so sure that this is the last word in Brainerd, someone or some group will come up with a plan that will help, it just takes a little time to put it together. You can raise fees, cut the number of games, cut the number of paid coaches, work out deals with the community and Park and Rec to save money. These are all things Rochester has done to save their programs. It's really little more than buying time and given the price of heating schools, new technology, etc. it's little more than a band aid on a bullet wound but it delays the end of HS sports..
The tournament revenue helps defray the membership fees along with paying for activities that lose money. If the hockey tournament didn't make the money it does it would have a huge impact on the MSHSL. If they didn't have the state hockey revenue there would be extemely high fees or some activities would not have state tournaments. The non revenue activities will start to go away like the colleges are doing.
Charliedog wrote:I don't know about all private schools, but the one my kids went to had fees for sports in the high $200's plus a couple hundred more to pay for new helmets, nets, bases, uniforms or whatever. This is because there is NO state funding for private schools.
AND you paid for the public school kids with your taxes. I get tired of the "private vs. public" argument, but you cannot tell me that the private schools are the reason that Brainerd is in jeopardy of losing HS hockey. That is the most uneducated argument I have ever heard. So if you go back to one tournament and eliminate the private schools, Ely and Sleep Eye will have a better chance of getting in?
It's all about the $$ and the fact that the schools need to educate first and the tax payers are tired of it appearing that sports are more important. I'm not saying it's true, but that is what is going on out there.
Save the sinking ship in Brainerd. I hate to see us lose a program, but just watch, it's going to happen over time..
I am highly educated-Thank you What I was saying is that over time if all of the small schools are going to loose their funding, there will be no programs to root for other than the privates and the big public programs in any sport. That thread was in regards to an
A/AA arguement but the jist of it was we have to try and save the programs of the smaller communities and schools. THey should have just as much of a shot as any one else to play. These well funded, athletically gifted teams take away spots from other small teams around the state and walla in a few years no funds available. Yes, I agree that education is the top priority and funds should go there first but, you have to have outlets other than academics for these kids as well.
hockeydad wrote:hockeymind.....Thanks for having a sense of humor.
elliott..
The only problem with what you posted is that the decision to make the cuts comes in a couple of weeks and goes into effect for next school year. The next referendum vote won't come until November, and the money from the referendum - if it passes - won't come until the 2009-10 school year.
My understanding was that they were still getting ref money with this year's property taxes, that would alleviate some of the burden on the next fiscal year, with major impact in 09-10.
AngusYoung wrote:Why will it be a "disgrace" if Brainerd does not have a HS hockey program? Why does Brainerd hockey need to be saved?
It appears to me that the voters of the referendum spoke loud and clear that this potential cut as well as others are OK with them. It would also appear that this is an excellent opportunity for impacted parents to look at organizing and starting a private school in this community. If you want to play, you have to pay.
AY
Couldn't agree more AY. You hit the nail on the head.
Angus is right, it's sad but true.
As much as we hockey people love our game, we are still a minority in almost any community.
You rarely see a community put out for the local hockey folks.
The ones that excel are the places where the people are highly motivated to fundraise and volunteer time.
I'm wonder if the Brainerd players, and youth players said "wait a minute" what is cost per player to keep the program alive, and agreed to pay it, equipment cost, and the coaches, etc. they would keep it alive.
There is no reason that a good-sized community such as Brainerd shouldn't support hockey for it's youth, as they do with baseball, football and many other sports. The Park and Recreation Department should be providing equal opportunity in all sports. This does not mean they have to provide ice time in an expensive arena all the time. Au contrare, they should be maintaining rinks throughout the city, and all levels should be practicing at various times throughout the week at these rinks as long as they are maintainable and in working order (not melting). This would alleviate much cost.
There should be a Park & Rec feeder program available to all who want to play hockey regardless of their income. Perhaps 1st and 2nd grade hockey, 3rd and 4th grade hockey, 5th and 6th, 7th and 8th. Teams would be formed in each division; games Saturday mornings at the indoor arenas. The tykes could have 3 games at one rink at one time with 2 by 4's separating the three zones for the three rinks.
There are so many simple things to do to make this affordable for everyone. Outdoor practice builds character. Learning to play with all the unpredictable bounces outdoor ice presents builds skill, believe it or not. Learning to skate over crevices and jagged ice also builds balance and strength. The point is ... there are so many benefits to playing on outdoor ice.
From the Park and Rec programs come the traveling teams (Bantams, Pee Wees, Squirts, etc.) Park and Rec only need to practice once or twice a week. Traveling team practices would be two, maybe three times a week at best. We need to try and get the kids to love the game again. Have fun playing it.
There should be more car-pooling done at the youth level. I think it's completely ridiculous that you go on a road trip and there are 15 vehicles for 15 players. Trust me, I've seen it.
Same with the high school levels ... the kids are practically riding 1st class coach with bathrooms, pool tables and a lounge with televisions, and it's costing the district a pretty penny. What happened to riding the old orange and black school bus with only two heaters (one in the front/other in the back) like the one ROSEAU takes.
Sacrifices need to be made by the players too!
Roseau's program is by far the best in the state. From the bottom up. And they support ALL SPORTS as well. The rest of Minnesota should use Roseau's model to build their own program.
I could go on and on, but I'm late for a hockey game on the outdoor rink.
AngusYoung wrote:Why will it be a "disgrace" if Brainerd does not have a HS hockey program? Why does Brainerd hockey need to be saved?
It appears to me that the voters of the referendum spoke loud and clear that this potential cut as well as others are OK with them. It would also appear that this is an excellent opportunity for impacted parents to look at organizing and starting a private school in this community. If you want to play, you have to pay.
AY
Couldn't agree more AY. You hit the nail on the head.
Angus is right, it's sad but true.
As much as we hockey people love our game, we are still a minority in almost any community.
You rarely see a community put out for the local hockey folks.
The ones that excel are the places where the people are highly motivated to fundraise and volunteer time.
I'm wonder if the Brainerd players, and youth players said "wait a minute" what is cost per player to keep the program alive, and agreed to pay it, equipment cost, and the coaches, etc. they would keep it alive.
The school district will not allow any self funding of any of the sports. Otherwise I am sure that the hockey people would try to pay for it themselves. They have been for this long in youth hockey, why not longer.
Goldy Gopher wrote:
Couldn't agree more AY. You hit the nail on the head.
Angus is right, it's sad but true.
As much as we hockey people love our game, we are still a minority in almost any community.
You rarely see a community put out for the local hockey folks.
The ones that excel are the places where the people are highly motivated to fundraise and volunteer time.
I'm wonder if the Brainerd players, and youth players said "wait a minute" what is cost per player to keep the program alive, and agreed to pay it, equipment cost, and the coaches, etc. they would keep it alive.
The school district will not allow any self funding of any of the sports. Otherwise I am sure that the hockey people would try to pay for it themselves. They have been for this long in youth hockey, why not longer.
Well maybe the tax payer should start charging $150/hr for the fields and gymnasiums that our taxes paid to build...I'll bet Basketball is still available, and Gymnastics, and Football and baseball...I feel those sports or facilities are no less important...and are not part of education.
They probably can't have self funding because they all have to allow equal access with hardship clause, and that would cause problems. IDK...just sad!
Hockey has always pretty much paid its own way. How many arenas were built without city or school district money. How many city rinks did hockey associations help raise money for. Like I said before, hockey people are use to digging in their wallets, alot of the other activities have been on the gravey train. Hockey will survive, but who will pay $250 to run cross country, jv sports, one act play, band, these are the activities that will disappear. $250 to the hockey parent is a real deal. Open gym is free, but open hockey, you pay. Captains practice for most sports is free, but not hockey. Most of the schools and community rec program have gotten by cheap when it comes to hockey. There will always be youth hockey programs for the kids. A lot of other activities will not be so lucky.
I was at the school board meeting last night. There are 2 options that are being recomended the the board. The first option is to cut Hockey and 16 other sports. The second option is to keep all sports and activities with increased fees of $390 per player. The people at the meeting unanmously voted for the second option. Along with the increased fees $220,000 needs to be raised by April 1. There is a group working on this and are about halfway to tis goal. Nobody that I talked to is opposed to the higher fees. The cost of $390 in my opinion is a bargain compared to the benefits the kids get from the activities. Brainerd is a baseball, football, basketball town. This has been stated loud and clear many times throughout the years. It was reaffirmed at last nights meeting also. The high scholl hockey players have always provided all of their own equipment with the exception of jerseys. Yes they do ride a coach style bus, but this is a decision made by the bus company not the team. I know if the district decides to make these cuts permanent hockey families will find a way to play next year. We have done this from the start without any help or subsidies from the school district or the City of Brainerd. This includes Raising money and building the Arena and donating it to the city. To say this is not a hockey town might be true. But I will tell you that the you could not find a more dedicated group than the hockey families of Brainerd, not even in Roseau.
It's a shame that this scenario is playing out all over.
I now live about 30 miles north of Green Bay in a small town. (2500)
The sports facilities here are as bad and used up as any I have ever seen.
Yet the referendums are voted down by a large margin every time.
I am not sure, but I believe a major reason for this is the fact that our population is growing older. Seniors, unless they are personally involved with athletics, are getting squeezed so bad by rising healthcare and other cost of living expenses, that they would rather vote no than take on more cost.
I am frustrated by this, but maybe if I was in their shoes I would feel the same way.
Our country is becoming more of a "every man for himself" place all the time.
I don't know what the answer is.
But I hope someone figures it out quick.
I say scrap the State High School League, their expenses could be better used by the Brainerds of the state. Any idea as to what they cost us? I've attended first class tournaments that are put on by volunteers, I believe that a state high school tourney would be every bit as good without them.
dralr wrote:I say scrap the State High School League, their expenses could be better used by the Brainerds of the state. Any idea as to what they cost us? I've attended first class tournaments that are put on by volunteers, I believe that a state high school tourney would be every bit as good without them.
We are now in a "pay to play" just about every where in hockey. High schools typically charge about $300 and if you cant pay, help is available, usually thru the people who can.
I am OK with this. $300 is a bargain for 25 games plus post season.
But I still have a real problem with the money (about a million bucks) being made off the hockey tournament going to fund other activities.
Hockey people have always paid their own way for the most part. Why cant other sports?
We pay the City rink $160/hour for ice time but what do soccer people pay for field use? Most cities will spend hundreds of thousands in a year on fields but operate the ice rink for break even or about a $15,000 loss because , as always, we pay for its use.
I dont mind paying for hockey but participants in other sports ought to pony up too. And some of the money we make on the hockey tournament ought to go back to hockey.
What I was saying is that over time if all of the small schools are going to loose their funding, there will be no programs to root for other than the privates and the big public programs in any sport. That thread was in regards to an