a few years ago our district did away with mite D hockey, I had thought that District 10 did away with it this year, maybe not. The explanation was that it had become too competitive and divided the kids. That mite hockey was about skills and not about competition.
When my oldest played mite hockey he was placed on mite teams with kids from 4-9 years of age on them, by their beginning skill levels as established in a two hour evaluation. My youngest plays on teams based mainly on age (level 1 - hockey five, level 2 hockey six, etc.). Age begins the level determination with skill being the deciding factor. Believe me the kids know exactly which first grader is skating with the 8 years olds.
Now the mites at each level are divided into thirds on the ice, not by jersey color (or their designated team) but by skill level. Most skilled, lesser skilled, and still struggling. I have watched this happen all winter, where the kids do two trips down the ice and than stand on the red line and the "lead head coach" divides them into groups of three (or six for stations) by their ability. Without a doubt the kids know they are being picked for their abilities or (the parents believe by their connections).
If it was too heartbreaking for 7 and 8 year old kids to not be picked for Level 4 hockey teams that traveled within their district, than how do you think these same kids are feeling every saturday and sunday when they are seperated from their teammates and sent off with the "bad kids".
I am not for feel good hockey, I just don't understand how this is building the game. Those kids are showing more than the usual mite reluctance to put down the video game controllers and head to hockey. It does feed the dad coaches egoes because, of course, those kids are in the number one group. Now, know that my husband is on the ice and we can put our son wherever we want but we do not. I have an overdeveloped sense of fairness and have talked to a number of the other parents. They don't like sitting in the stands and watching the coach and manager kids head off to learn harder skills. It's explained to them, that "we wouldn't want to hold those kids back by placing them with kids who aren't at their skill level". So, this is too make up for not giving them the tryouts and travel mite teams? Now, instead of a kid (or more likely their parents) feeling bad for not making a travel team, now they have to feel bad every Sat. and Sun. because they aren't in the "good group". I think now it is the kids who feel bad, where before it was the parent.
At least when the age groups were intermingled and the kids were placed at the beginning of the year by their skill, they were put on a team and developed friendships and pride in that team. They practiced as a team. Yes, the eight year old new skaters got better quicker than the five year olds, but they were part of a team. If someone could explain to me where we are going with mite hockey in Minnesota, than we wouldn't have to argue about competitive programs. Please explain how this is better.
improving mite hockey
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Dmom- as you know every situation for every association is different. Sometimes it comes down to basically what type of ice time do we have and how can we make the most out of it with the numbers and resources we have.
My experience is that most Mite programs evolve and try to make adjustments and improvements based on feedback from coaches and parents. I have seen the pendulum swing back and forth a number of times in my 14 years here.
Your points here are solid and presented well. I would only suggest to begin by working with the appropriate age level coordinator or commissioner in person to learn how decisions are made and what the major factors are involved in the development decisions.
The key is meet in person - too many messages are misinterpreted via email or letters. Make it a face to face meeting so you can better understand the shoes these people walk-in. Ideas for improvement are also created when you can have a free exchange of thoughts and opinions. Better clarity is achieved on both sides of the thought process. Just writing letters and sending emails is not a very productive way for achieving improvement. Often times this can turn into a "hit & run process". Some people love to do this way and then say, 'I attempted but no one listens to me". If you make it face to face it shows how important your position is to you. You also know how concerned the board members are if they want or don't want to meet with you.
My experience is that most Mite programs evolve and try to make adjustments and improvements based on feedback from coaches and parents. I have seen the pendulum swing back and forth a number of times in my 14 years here.
Your points here are solid and presented well. I would only suggest to begin by working with the appropriate age level coordinator or commissioner in person to learn how decisions are made and what the major factors are involved in the development decisions.
The key is meet in person - too many messages are misinterpreted via email or letters. Make it a face to face meeting so you can better understand the shoes these people walk-in. Ideas for improvement are also created when you can have a free exchange of thoughts and opinions. Better clarity is achieved on both sides of the thought process. Just writing letters and sending emails is not a very productive way for achieving improvement. Often times this can turn into a "hit & run process". Some people love to do this way and then say, 'I attempted but no one listens to me". If you make it face to face it shows how important your position is to you. You also know how concerned the board members are if they want or don't want to meet with you.
Nice post.tomASS wrote:Dmom- as you know every situation for every association is different. Sometimes it comes down to basically what type of ice time do we have and how can we make the most out of it with the numbers and resources we have.
My experience is that most Mite programs evolve and try to make adjustments and improvements based on feedback from coaches and parents. I have seen the pendulum swing back and forth a number of times in my 14 years here.
Your points here are solid and presented well. I would only suggest to begin by working with the appropriate age level coordinator or commissioner in person to learn how decisions are made and what the major factors are involved in the development decisions.
The key is meet in person - too many messages are misinterpreted via email or letters. Make it a face to face meeting so you can better understand the shoes these people walk-in. Ideas for improvement are also created when you can have a free exchange of thoughts and opinions. Better clarity is achieved on both sides of the thought process. Just writing letters and sending emails is not a very productive way for achieving improvement. Often times this can turn into a "hit & run process". Some people love to do this way and then say, 'I attempted but no one listens to me". If you make it face to face it shows how important your position is to you. You also know how concerned the board members are if they want or don't want to meet with you.
I know - pretty strange considering the source eh?elliott70 wrote:Nice post.tomASS wrote:Dmom- as you know every situation for every association is different. Sometimes it comes down to basically what type of ice time do we have and how can we make the most out of it with the numbers and resources we have.
My experience is that most Mite programs evolve and try to make adjustments and improvements based on feedback from coaches and parents. I have seen the pendulum swing back and forth a number of times in my 14 years here.
Your points here are solid and presented well. I would only suggest to begin by working with the appropriate age level coordinator or commissioner in person to learn how decisions are made and what the major factors are involved in the development decisions.
The key is meet in person - too many messages are misinterpreted via email or letters. Make it a face to face meeting so you can better understand the shoes these people walk-in. Ideas for improvement are also created when you can have a free exchange of thoughts and opinions. Better clarity is achieved on both sides of the thought process. Just writing letters and sending emails is not a very productive way for achieving improvement. Often times this can turn into a "hit & run process". Some people love to do this way and then say, 'I attempted but no one listens to me". If you make it face to face it shows how important your position is to you. You also know how concerned the board members are if they want or don't want to meet with you.
Our association does a fall/early winter "Clinic" and then splits the Mite group into 4 pretty equally skilled teams. Approx. 12 players per team. Ages on my sons team this year was 6 - 9 year olds. They all just play together as a team, some do better than others, but they have fun and make friends and learn about the game.
Our program also has a Mini-mite group that kids are generally "required" to participate in for two years, to start to learn the basic skills so when they move to Mites, they are able to keep up. These Mini-mites are divided (after Clinic) into Beginners and Intermediates and thus skate with a similar skill level and Team all season.
Pretty simple, but it seems to work ok.
Our program also has a Mini-mite group that kids are generally "required" to participate in for two years, to start to learn the basic skills so when they move to Mites, they are able to keep up. These Mini-mites are divided (after Clinic) into Beginners and Intermediates and thus skate with a similar skill level and Team all season.
Pretty simple, but it seems to work ok.
SEE YOU AT THE RINK
I was just going to say the same thingtomASS wrote:I know - pretty strange considering the source eh?elliott70 wrote:Nice post.tomASS wrote:Dmom- as you know every situation for every association is different. Sometimes it comes down to basically what type of ice time do we have and how can we make the most out of it with the numbers and resources we have.
My experience is that most Mite programs evolve and try to make adjustments and improvements based on feedback from coaches and parents. I have seen the pendulum swing back and forth a number of times in my 14 years here.
Your points here are solid and presented well. I would only suggest to begin by working with the appropriate age level coordinator or commissioner in person to learn how decisions are made and what the major factors are involved in the development decisions.
The key is meet in person - too many messages are misinterpreted via email or letters. Make it a face to face meeting so you can better understand the shoes these people walk-in. Ideas for improvement are also created when you can have a free exchange of thoughts and opinions. Better clarity is achieved on both sides of the thought process. Just writing letters and sending emails is not a very productive way for achieving improvement. Often times this can turn into a "hit & run process". Some people love to do this way and then say, 'I attempted but no one listens to me". If you make it face to face it shows how important your position is to you. You also know how concerned the board members are if they want or don't want to meet with you.
Dmom- Now you know why kids are leaving Mite programs. Just as you stated. You feel bad for the weaker players skating with weaker players.
What about the kids that are more advanced at a younger age? This is also a concern. Some kids actually love hockey so much they do want to skate with better talent. Why shouldn't the kids that put in the time and training skate with the kids in the same talent pool? I think this is where people are getting confused about Minnesota made.
My son is still skating with his friends.
He's skating with kids in the same talent pool.
He's learning from better coaches.
He's playing squirt style games as a Mite.
Dollar for dollar he's getting more ice time cheaper.
My son is exposed to new friends.
My son is exposed to other hockey opportunities.
Best of all? He's having fun. And no! I'm not trying to make him DI, pro or Squirt "A". If I'm going to pay a lot of money for hockey. Then I want him to learn. If he's having fun. No worries!
As stated many times. Parents need to know their kids. Minnesota made is not for all kids. If your child loves to play the game. Minnesota made is a great program. For all the reasons mentioned above.
To answer your question: Associations are all different at tomASS stated. Some offer advanced or elite mites. Some do not. If you want your child to learn at a higher level. Go to Minnesota made. If you want them to skate with all their buddies and the fun factor is the only concern at the Mite level. Then have them skate with the association.
Like tomASS stated. Meet with the association and asked them why they run the Mite league that way. Most times they just want to keep everyone happy. Not to mention ice time is the main concern. I'm sure they will have valid reasons.
As for kids being moved on the same team by talent. That would be the coaches decision. The problem with this. If you confront someone and ask them why. Then you'll be labeled as a complainer or whiner. When in fact you might have a valid point. Then you'll be told. If you don't like it join the association. In hopes that you can make the appropriate changes. It's a huge tangled mess.
Hopefully your concerns will be addressed. Good luck!
Foiling up Coach!
-
skateguymn
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:01 pm
Our mite program is run similarly to yours. I am a coach. My son is in the highest group. Our district also eliminated the D mite/pony program years ago. I am not posting to argue whether or not that has impacted the play of our local athletes. Rather, I would like to address your point about segregation by ability. I am not going to assume your child attends any more or less off season (outside association) on ice development for your child than I do for my child. I would like to focus on why the kids are segregated and also how the program is communicated to the teams and members of your association. Also I would like to say that I believe this post to be accurate if you and your child aspire to achieve placement on high level hockey teams.
I think most coaches would use building blocks as a metaphor to describe the process of learning how to skate, this may not be new to you. If I were to take 10 blocks and stack them on top of each other in a vertical column we can agree that the blocks would topple easily. If I take those 10 blocks and build a pyramid it would obviously take a lot more effort to topple them.
Skating is almost identical and unique to the sport. No other team sport requires the athlete to learn a skill that utilizes means of motion other thatn running. Skills need to be learned and In skating, if a coach bypasses outside edge training and moves right on to crossovers without a doubt that player will be a weaker skater, not only in the short term but long term. Good coaching takes persistence but also good coaches find ways to take kids minds off of things like the segregation you mention.
Last year I placed a 3rd grade kid (first year skater) in our level of mites that was comprise d of mostly 1st adn 2nd graders. I discussed this with the family and promissed them that the kid would be better off in the long run if he learned skills bottom up. This year he is a 2nd year player and on a C squirt team. He is one of the stronger players on the team and will be more successful in the next couple years. I want to add one very important piece to this explanation. The family not only understood but also helped the coaches by explaining to the child why he was placed on a level lower than his friends. Additionally, our local rink has open skating every Tuesday night until High School hockey starts. I saw that family at the rink with thier child every Tuesday night. Nothing helps more than a family that is understanding and gets teh kid touches so he can catch up.
The family took the initiative to realize that learning to skate (pretty critical piece to playing hockey) cannot be accelerated, skill development is a long slow jouney.
Regarding Coaches kids placed inthe top groups? Odds are those kids are accelerated because they play more hockey. They have already learned the skills the lower end kids are working on, so I ask you this, do you expect those kids to stop developing? Is that fair to them? If you think the coaches are just placing them there with out completing the proper skill development progression then you have a rigfht to pursue teh stpes that T-Ass described.
I think you are right to question how your program is run, I think T-ass finally had a thoughtful post. By your other posts I can tell you are probably very dedicated to the game. What better way is there to raise afamily. Hockey is a great sport for families. It keeps you together for sure. By the way, my 9 year old broke his S17.....Oh boy now I might get ounded for buying a 9 year old an S17 not a woody!
Last thing. Get your board to bring back ponies and I will work on mine!
I hope my post comes across in apositive way. I think everyone has the right to ask questions. The cool thing about people on this site si that we all care about the game.
I think most coaches would use building blocks as a metaphor to describe the process of learning how to skate, this may not be new to you. If I were to take 10 blocks and stack them on top of each other in a vertical column we can agree that the blocks would topple easily. If I take those 10 blocks and build a pyramid it would obviously take a lot more effort to topple them.
Skating is almost identical and unique to the sport. No other team sport requires the athlete to learn a skill that utilizes means of motion other thatn running. Skills need to be learned and In skating, if a coach bypasses outside edge training and moves right on to crossovers without a doubt that player will be a weaker skater, not only in the short term but long term. Good coaching takes persistence but also good coaches find ways to take kids minds off of things like the segregation you mention.
Last year I placed a 3rd grade kid (first year skater) in our level of mites that was comprise d of mostly 1st adn 2nd graders. I discussed this with the family and promissed them that the kid would be better off in the long run if he learned skills bottom up. This year he is a 2nd year player and on a C squirt team. He is one of the stronger players on the team and will be more successful in the next couple years. I want to add one very important piece to this explanation. The family not only understood but also helped the coaches by explaining to the child why he was placed on a level lower than his friends. Additionally, our local rink has open skating every Tuesday night until High School hockey starts. I saw that family at the rink with thier child every Tuesday night. Nothing helps more than a family that is understanding and gets teh kid touches so he can catch up.
The family took the initiative to realize that learning to skate (pretty critical piece to playing hockey) cannot be accelerated, skill development is a long slow jouney.
Regarding Coaches kids placed inthe top groups? Odds are those kids are accelerated because they play more hockey. They have already learned the skills the lower end kids are working on, so I ask you this, do you expect those kids to stop developing? Is that fair to them? If you think the coaches are just placing them there with out completing the proper skill development progression then you have a rigfht to pursue teh stpes that T-Ass described.
I think you are right to question how your program is run, I think T-ass finally had a thoughtful post. By your other posts I can tell you are probably very dedicated to the game. What better way is there to raise afamily. Hockey is a great sport for families. It keeps you together for sure. By the way, my 9 year old broke his S17.....Oh boy now I might get ounded for buying a 9 year old an S17 not a woody!
Last thing. Get your board to bring back ponies and I will work on mine!
I hope my post comes across in apositive way. I think everyone has the right to ask questions. The cool thing about people on this site si that we all care about the game.
lets keep it going
thanks for the input and I hope we get more. Skateguy, you are right in assuming that I am not actually inquiring about my own children. Their Dad and I will make sure they get what they need. I get most frustrated because I think in the past skills were emphasized. if you line the kids up in five or six lines and spend twenty minutes running full ice drills, the kids will all inevitably beat someone and can feel good about it. What I know, and so many of the newbies do not, is that the fastest mite may not be getting there with good skating skills. We held our son back this year, mainly because we knew he didn't have good skating fundamentals. Our other two are launched (so to speak) and my husband was able to concentrate more on him. Not all kids have what your kids and my kids have. I started this, not to rip on my association, but because I would like input as to how others are doing it, and why we are all doing it the same (or differently). I know the new DVD from Minnesota Hockey suggests breaking them out by ability.
My thoughts on the differing abilities are that if you have to water down the groupings to six kids of "like skills" so that kids get puck touches, than where is the challenge and growth in that. Many NHL stars have been the youngest boy in their family, why? because they chased their brothers on the outdoor rinks. They were challenged by more skilled players. Now my kids have such different schedules they don't meet on the outdoor rink nearly as often as we would like. Watching kids develop, sometimes it's a kid who wins the relay races who succeeds more so than the kid who scores 8 goals as a mite, but the parents in the stands don't necessarily know that. Thus, the swinging back and forth of how we conduct mite hockey. What's best?
I have, after many, many years of experience, no time for people who believe that their child should be trying out for A squirts as a seven year old. I know a number of older kids whose dads were in board positions where they could changed the rules a little here and there and they could have vaulted their own kid ahead of others, but they didn't do it. Guess what, it didn't hurt their child at all and I guess they knew that. They knew they wanted their child to play with his friends. The friends he will eventually play high school hockey with, so you might as well stay at that level and develop the group. Never saw a successful high school hockey team with one player. I applaud those dads/coaches for putting the program ahead of their own kid, and guess what their kids still look darn good.
My thoughts on the differing abilities are that if you have to water down the groupings to six kids of "like skills" so that kids get puck touches, than where is the challenge and growth in that. Many NHL stars have been the youngest boy in their family, why? because they chased their brothers on the outdoor rinks. They were challenged by more skilled players. Now my kids have such different schedules they don't meet on the outdoor rink nearly as often as we would like. Watching kids develop, sometimes it's a kid who wins the relay races who succeeds more so than the kid who scores 8 goals as a mite, but the parents in the stands don't necessarily know that. Thus, the swinging back and forth of how we conduct mite hockey. What's best?
I have, after many, many years of experience, no time for people who believe that their child should be trying out for A squirts as a seven year old. I know a number of older kids whose dads were in board positions where they could changed the rules a little here and there and they could have vaulted their own kid ahead of others, but they didn't do it. Guess what, it didn't hurt their child at all and I guess they knew that. They knew they wanted their child to play with his friends. The friends he will eventually play high school hockey with, so you might as well stay at that level and develop the group. Never saw a successful high school hockey team with one player. I applaud those dads/coaches for putting the program ahead of their own kid, and guess what their kids still look darn good.
Re: lets keep it going
I totally agree and there is not enough of them. I had the same experience with soccer. Too many get involved to advocate for their own child's cause rather than than doing what is best for all kids and their development.DMom wrote:
I applaud those dads/coaches for putting the program ahead of their own kid, and guess what their kids still look darn good.
-
blondegirlsdad
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:30 am
I think, as in most things, balance is required. The lower level kids should compete with the upper kids from time to time, it gives them some idea about what they might need to do to improve. But I am very grateful for the fact that my daughter's first mite coach separated the team and she got the chance to play with the other bottom kids. Playing with the better kids would have been frustrating, and the fact that she experienced some success with the lower level kids kept her happy and coming back for more. Now she skates with the U10As and I'm not sure she would have stuck with it if she hadn't had some success way back then.
As long as the coaches spend the time with the bottom kids, and just don't concentrate on the top ones, I don't think this is as negative an experience as it might appear. Once again, so much of a kid's experience is wrapped up in the committment and ability of the coaches.
As long as the coaches spend the time with the bottom kids, and just don't concentrate on the top ones, I don't think this is as negative an experience as it might appear. Once again, so much of a kid's experience is wrapped up in the committment and ability of the coaches.
-
Truthbetold
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:43 pm
Slasher or should I say Boogey. Most people can ask any questions they like about the way things are done or run, if their questions are preceived wrong then it is usually in the way they ask or conspire behind backs without gaining the knowledge first.
You mention some good points, but also remember that many times when you seperate kids by talent you get all the coaches with experience on one end of the ice, while the lower group gets less skilled dads running the other side.
I have the most respect for those coaches/people that try to build the whole program, not just the 6-7 higher skilled kids. Associations can not cater to a few, true they can make their programs better to help develop the higher kids more.
In most all cases the kids do not mind/complain that in a mite game they score 6 goals and are the star of the team, it is the parents ego that thinks they are too good.
To answer your question: Associations are all different at tomASS stated. Some offer advanced or elite mites. Some do not. If you want your child to learn at a higher level. Go to Minnesota made. If you want them to skate with all their buddies and the fun factor is the only concern at the Mite level. Then have them skate with the association.
Like tomASS stated. Meet with the association and asked them why they run the Mite league that way. Most times they just want to keep everyone happy. Not to mention ice time is the main concern. I'm sure they will have valid reasons.
As for kids being moved on the same team by talent. That would be the coaches decision. The problem with this. If you confront someone and ask them why. Then you'll be labeled as a complainer or whiner. When in fact you might have a valid point. Then you'll be told. If you don't like it join the association. In hopes that you can make the appropriate changes. It's a huge tangled mess.
Hopefully your concerns will be addressed. Good luck!
You mention some good points, but also remember that many times when you seperate kids by talent you get all the coaches with experience on one end of the ice, while the lower group gets less skilled dads running the other side.
I have the most respect for those coaches/people that try to build the whole program, not just the 6-7 higher skilled kids. Associations can not cater to a few, true they can make their programs better to help develop the higher kids more.
In most all cases the kids do not mind/complain that in a mite game they score 6 goals and are the star of the team, it is the parents ego that thinks they are too good.
-
ironrangehockey55
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:39 pm
dmom, you make many ggod points and there never seems to be enough coaches, so the people who do volunteer should be thanked over and over again.
boogey, i understand your points, but shouldnt the fun factor by at the top of you're list instead of putting it at the bottom by saying IF YOU WANT THEN TO SKATE WITH ALL THEIR BUDDIES AND THE FUN FACTOR IS THE ONLY CONCERN AT THE MITE LEVEL. otherwise you claim kids should skate at minesotamade because the per hour ice time is cheaper or that there is better talent. at this age the fun factor should be pretty much the only factor. please do not take this as a knock at you or minesotamade, it just seems that your concern is completely about the development of your kid without thinking about the fun factor. you could not have known how much fun it would be at minesotamade before you did it, so it seesm you were willing to sacrifice the fun factor for the development. i know it is a choice you made and thats ok, but dont try and convince us that kids at the association level wont develop and be good players as well.
boogey, i understand your points, but shouldnt the fun factor by at the top of you're list instead of putting it at the bottom by saying IF YOU WANT THEN TO SKATE WITH ALL THEIR BUDDIES AND THE FUN FACTOR IS THE ONLY CONCERN AT THE MITE LEVEL. otherwise you claim kids should skate at minesotamade because the per hour ice time is cheaper or that there is better talent. at this age the fun factor should be pretty much the only factor. please do not take this as a knock at you or minesotamade, it just seems that your concern is completely about the development of your kid without thinking about the fun factor. you could not have known how much fun it would be at minesotamade before you did it, so it seesm you were willing to sacrifice the fun factor for the development. i know it is a choice you made and thats ok, but dont try and convince us that kids at the association level wont develop and be good players as well.
Before you assume anything. Maybe you need to be clear on the intent of the question before you automatically assume it's negative. Instead of people lableing others. Maybe someone on the board should address the question with that person. Remember this is a two way street. Every time I asked our commish a question. I was directed to attend a board meeting. In fact, I've heard many parents claim the same thing.Truthbetold wrote:Slasher or should I say Boogey. Most people can ask any questions they like about the way things are done or run, if their questions are preceived wrong then it is usually in the way they ask or conspire behind backs without gaining the knowledge first.To answer your question: Associations are all different at tomASS stated. Some offer advanced or elite mites. Some do not. If you want your child to learn at a higher level. Go to Minnesota made. If you want them to skate with all their buddies and the fun factor is the only concern at the Mite level. Then have them skate with the association.
Like tomASS stated. Meet with the association and asked them why they run the Mite league that way. Most times they just want to keep everyone happy. Not to mention ice time is the main concern. I'm sure they will have valid reasons.
As for kids being moved on the same team by talent. That would be the coaches decision. The problem with this. If you confront someone and ask them why. Then you'll be labeled as a complainer or whiner. When in fact you might have a valid point. Then you'll be told. If you don't like it join the association. In hopes that you can make the appropriate changes. It's a huge tangled mess.
Hopefully your concerns will be addressed. Good luck!
You mention some good points, but also remember that many times when you seperate kids by talent you get all the coaches with experience on one end of the ice, while the lower group gets less skilled dads running the other side.
I have the most respect for those coaches/people that try to build the whole program, not just the 6-7 higher skilled kids. Associations can not cater to a few, true they can make their programs better to help develop the higher kids more.
In most all cases the kids do not mind/complain that in a mite game they score 6 goals and are the star of the team, it is the parents ego that thinks they are too good.
Right off the bat. You have someone volunteer to be the commish. Who I hold at a higher standard. Actually telling me to go ask someone else. These are basic simple questions. I want to make sure that people know I wasn't being critical. He even went as far to tell me I'm the only person that asked any questions. Then I find out he's told other parents the same thing. Hopefully this person realizes that he's not in the right job for our association. I for one appreciate people that volunteer their time. But please stick with something that you can manage.
Overall, I think our asssociation is great. Every year is getting better and better. I think the president is doing a great job. I also think our association totally needs to revamp the Mite program. I already know a group of Mites from our association going to try out at Minnesota made next year. More bang for the buck.
I'd like to see our association come up with more ice time for the Mite skaters. Now that we're getting a third rink. There should be plenty of ice time for the Mite program. We'll see if the association revamps the mite program.
Foiling up Coach!
-
skateguymn
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:01 pm
Slasher I think the request for you to attend a board meeting to air your ideas/complaints is acceptable. I also think association members should respect the board volunteers personal time. Board members are only volunteers. They spend untold hours planning and operating your childs youth hockey experience behind the scenes. It is understandable to think you are the only one that wants to bend the ear of the commisioner or level coordinator or whoever - however, I can assure you that before you caught that person numbers of others have tried as well.
I have been a board member and I can confirm that the number of public one on one conversation requests are astronomical. If board members stop and answer questions and strike up conversations with every association member they come in contact with their opportunity to enjoy their hockey experience with their child will be compromised and that is not fair.
Board meetings do not only serve as public reports of the associations business, it is supposed to be the time that members can strike up conversations and throw out ideas regarding their childs experience.
My wife can confirm the demand on my time, it sometimes takes me more that 30 minutes to get from a locker room to the front door on the rink. I get that look from her, who am I going to care more about, my wife and what is left of our weekend after coaching 2 - 90 minute practices or a parent that has just returned from running errands while I teach thier kid the sport on the ice that I was partly responsible for securing ?
By the way someone in this thread commented that NO association could give their kid a CHOICE experience at the mite level......I suggest you do your homework before you speak. Our association offers a 100 hour program for last year mites. 12 games, 90 minute practice sessions only 50% shared (most with A and B Squirts), roster size 17 (15 skaters with 2 dedicated goalies), very family friendly local ice hours, dryland homework assignments (from the originator of stihandling skill development - Sean Skinner), Jersey, refs, socks, Coaches that care about each kids future for obvious reasons, Oh by the way the cost of this impossible association program is $750!
So for those people that drive 20 plus miles one way in their Suburban (sorry probably should have said Denali or Escalade, don't want to offend anyone by associating them with such a commoners vehicle) to Minnesota Made lets do that math. Gas at $2.80 per gallon (benefit of the doubt, even though it cost $3 today) and 15 mpg. Taking into account the various other programs you have been convinced are necessary to make Johnny a star, let's use 24 gallons per week that is $67.20 per month in gas, October through March = $403.20 in Gas plus $950 Choice fee = $1,353.20 for Mite hockey.
I am not knocking the program, very good skill development pportunities but the fact remains all is not roses and tulips.
Why do you think the CHOICE teams were re-shuffled? Some people know the real reason - good coaches wanted certain people/parent coaches and their kids off their teams because they were ruining the experience for others. Sure it made sense to say it was because the teams were not in balance but the bottom line is bad parent coaches/box helpers wre to blame. Uh-oh sounds like polictics.
I have been a board member and I can confirm that the number of public one on one conversation requests are astronomical. If board members stop and answer questions and strike up conversations with every association member they come in contact with their opportunity to enjoy their hockey experience with their child will be compromised and that is not fair.
Board meetings do not only serve as public reports of the associations business, it is supposed to be the time that members can strike up conversations and throw out ideas regarding their childs experience.
My wife can confirm the demand on my time, it sometimes takes me more that 30 minutes to get from a locker room to the front door on the rink. I get that look from her, who am I going to care more about, my wife and what is left of our weekend after coaching 2 - 90 minute practices or a parent that has just returned from running errands while I teach thier kid the sport on the ice that I was partly responsible for securing ?
By the way someone in this thread commented that NO association could give their kid a CHOICE experience at the mite level......I suggest you do your homework before you speak. Our association offers a 100 hour program for last year mites. 12 games, 90 minute practice sessions only 50% shared (most with A and B Squirts), roster size 17 (15 skaters with 2 dedicated goalies), very family friendly local ice hours, dryland homework assignments (from the originator of stihandling skill development - Sean Skinner), Jersey, refs, socks, Coaches that care about each kids future for obvious reasons, Oh by the way the cost of this impossible association program is $750!
So for those people that drive 20 plus miles one way in their Suburban (sorry probably should have said Denali or Escalade, don't want to offend anyone by associating them with such a commoners vehicle) to Minnesota Made lets do that math. Gas at $2.80 per gallon (benefit of the doubt, even though it cost $3 today) and 15 mpg. Taking into account the various other programs you have been convinced are necessary to make Johnny a star, let's use 24 gallons per week that is $67.20 per month in gas, October through March = $403.20 in Gas plus $950 Choice fee = $1,353.20 for Mite hockey.
I am not knocking the program, very good skill development pportunities but the fact remains all is not roses and tulips.
Why do you think the CHOICE teams were re-shuffled? Some people know the real reason - good coaches wanted certain people/parent coaches and their kids off their teams because they were ruining the experience for others. Sure it made sense to say it was because the teams were not in balance but the bottom line is bad parent coaches/box helpers wre to blame. Uh-oh sounds like polictics.
-
birdielane
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:28 pm
Sorry but I just don't see it Dmom's way here. We split our mites three ways (maybe she's in our ass'n?) - usually by ability, but the reasons are pretty obvious.
First, each zone is usually a station and kids rotate, not the coaches...so all kids are getting the same coaching.
Second, kids like to compete, so often times the stations, while workign to develop a skill, have a competitive angle to it...puck races, battling for pucks, some passing, 1-1s, stuff like that. If you split the groups randomly, the lower kids will never 'win' these little contests and have very little success. But splitting by ablity, they'll be right in there within their group. This is the obvious reason for the splits. My kids have been in all three groups and I've never given it a second thought. Just let them play and have fun and have a little success.
As you say...the kids know the pecking order...and theres actually nothing wrong with that. When you don't split the kids by ablity and you are doing some competitive thing where they're in line to match up (races, 1-1s, etc)...watch how the many of the middle and lower kids shuffle themselves back in line so they don't have to go up against the strong kids...(I've seen this many times...)
Also, in our ass'n, the three groups are not fixed and the kids ebb and flow between the three groups over the course of the year.
Lastly, some days we do stations that have no competitive components but are just individual skill stations and on those days, I don't bother worrying about matching them up...they just get numbered off as 1s-2s-3s.
First, each zone is usually a station and kids rotate, not the coaches...so all kids are getting the same coaching.
Second, kids like to compete, so often times the stations, while workign to develop a skill, have a competitive angle to it...puck races, battling for pucks, some passing, 1-1s, stuff like that. If you split the groups randomly, the lower kids will never 'win' these little contests and have very little success. But splitting by ablity, they'll be right in there within their group. This is the obvious reason for the splits. My kids have been in all three groups and I've never given it a second thought. Just let them play and have fun and have a little success.
As you say...the kids know the pecking order...and theres actually nothing wrong with that. When you don't split the kids by ablity and you are doing some competitive thing where they're in line to match up (races, 1-1s, etc)...watch how the many of the middle and lower kids shuffle themselves back in line so they don't have to go up against the strong kids...(I've seen this many times...)
Also, in our ass'n, the three groups are not fixed and the kids ebb and flow between the three groups over the course of the year.
Lastly, some days we do stations that have no competitive components but are just individual skill stations and on those days, I don't bother worrying about matching them up...they just get numbered off as 1s-2s-3s.
Skateguymn- Before you assume anything. Maybe you need to be clear on the intent of the question before you automatically assume it's negative. I don't care what you say. If I ask a simple basic question. I do expect my level commish to answer the question. If they do accept the role of commish then it's their duty to answer questions.skateguymn wrote:Slasher I think the request for you to attend a board meeting to air your ideas/complaints is acceptable. I also think association members should respect the board volunteers personal time. Board members are only volunteers. They spend untold hours planning and operating your childs youth hockey experience behind the scenes. It is understandable to think you are the only one that wants to bend the ear of the commisioner or level coordinator or whoever - however, I can assure you that before you caught that person numbers of others have tried as well.
I have been a board member and I can confirm that the number of public one on one conversation requests are astronomical. If board members stop and answer questions and strike up conversations with every association member they come in contact with their opportunity to enjoy their hockey experience with their child will be compromised and that is not fair.
Board meetings do not only serve as public reports of the associations business, it is supposed to be the time that members can strike up conversations and throw out ideas regarding their childs experience.
My wife can confirm the demand on my time, it sometimes takes me more that 30 minutes to get from a locker room to the front door on the rink. I get that look from her, who am I going to care more about, my wife and what is left of our weekend after coaching 2 - 90 minute practices or a parent that has just returned from running errands while I teach thier kid the sport on the ice that I was partly responsible for securing ?
By the way someone in this thread commented that NO association could give their kid a CHOICE experience at the mite level......I suggest you do your homework before you speak. Our association offers a 100 hour program for last year mites. 12 games, 90 minute practice sessions only 50% shared (most with A and B Squirts), roster size 17 (15 skaters with 2 dedicated goalies), very family friendly local ice hours, dryland homework assignments (from the originator of stihandling skill development - Sean Skinner), Jersey, refs, socks, Coaches that care about each kids future for obvious reasons, Oh by the way the cost of this impossible association program is $750!
So for those people that drive 20 plus miles one way in their Suburban (sorry probably should have said Denali or Escalade, don't want to offend anyone by associating them with such a commoners vehicle) to Minnesota Made lets do that math. Gas at $2.80 per gallon (benefit of the doubt, even though it cost $3 today) and 15 mpg. Taking into account the various other programs you have been convinced are necessary to make Johnny a star, let's use 24 gallons per week that is $67.20 per month in gas, October through March = $403.20 in Gas plus $950 Choice fee = $1,353.20 for Mite hockey.
I am not knocking the program, very good skill development pportunities but the fact remains all is not roses and tulips.
Why do you think the CHOICE teams were re-shuffled? Some people know the real reason - good coaches wanted certain people/parent coaches and their kids off their teams because they were ruining the experience for others. Sure it made sense to say it was because the teams were not in balance but the bottom line is bad parent coaches/box helpers wre to blame. Uh-oh sounds like polictics.
As for Minnesota made:
My son is still skating with his friends.
He's skating with kids in the same talent pool.
He's learning from better coaches.
He's playing squirt style games as a Mite.
Dollar for dollar he's getting more ice time cheaper.
My son is exposed to new friends.
My son is exposed to other hockey opportunities.
Best of all? He's having fun. And no! I'm not trying to make him DI, pro or Squirt "A". If I'm going to pay a lot of money for hockey. Then I want him to learn. If he's having fun. No worries!
Skatguymn, Keep in mind I could careless where kids are playing hockey. That's personal business. I get a kick out of people who think kids should stay in their associations. I'm telling you. In my situation. My son is better off at Minnesota made than my local association.
As for moving kids around at Minnesota made? Please don't fuel the fire. The ONLY reason the kids were moved around was to make the teams more even for the games. Keep in mind. These games mean NOTHING. I haven't heard one person that actually cares about their teams record. If you truely volunteered your time and efforts. You would realize that winning games at Mite age is meaningless.
Minnesota made is all about learning hockey skills through repetition. If your associations mites received all the ice time and games stated. Well done. I commend your association. They are moving in the right direction.
By the way! If you're not knocking Minnesota made. What are you doing?
Skateguy wrote:I am not knocking the program, very good skill development opportunities but the fact remains all is not roses and tulips.
Skateguy- I don't know who you get your information from. Actually everything is fine at Minnesota made. No worries!
Good luck!
Foiling up Coach!
-
skateguymn
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:01 pm
I was simply stating that Board members have to have personal time. Assume anything? me? Not. You have the track record there.
A board member has the right to choose when and who they talk to. Yes it would be nice to have a member actualy request a meeting instead of expecting me to send my wife and kids out to the car while I discuss the finer points of Mite hockey with them in some hal way because that is the moment it happens to fit THEIR schedule (I say THIER schedule because these people are generally so selfish they willn ot consider my time). All I am saying is that you were corect in saying that a meeting by appontment would be the right thing to do but that we all have personal time, board meetings are a great time to get these things addressed.
I like the people that want to talk behind the scenes the most. They have ideas but no time to actually put forth the effort to make change. Please do not take that as a knock on you. Just an obvservation from my experiences, sometimes it gets very frustrating.
Regarding Minnesota Made. Did you write this in the Bernie Poll post?
Truthbetold- I've heard a couple parents on our team make the claim that their association does the same thing. No way! Not even close.
Sorry I did not take the time to read this entire post I thought you posted it here. I am only responding to your post listed above. My information comes from the coaches and some parents of your teams at MM. "Fuel the Fire"? Are you saying there is a grass fire at Minnesota Made?
Yes there is/are parents that are nuts in CHOICE, there are in my association too. You know that as well as I do. Why sugar coat it. If there were no crazy parents out there at MM or association hockey it would not be youth sports.
There are parents like that everywhere. You are the one trying to make everyone believe that the grass is greener. Grass is Grass. You want to believe they are better coaches? Maybe that is true when compared to your association I will not question that. If you say it is better for your son at MM, I believe you. Our association is doing things the right way so when you generalize like you did above you will bring responses like this one.
You have argued the price issue in the past, did I reveal some secret? People are traveling from Rosemount Fairmont etc...You have to take travel cost into account. Do you think they eat at restaurants more often too, I could add that cost too but I did not. Just pointing out that it can be twiested and turned any way a person would like.
I respect Minnesota Made and the skill development progressions they teach. I know good hockey players are made there but they are made elsewhere too. On ponds and city rinks. Yes at the Mecca in Edina too.
A board member has the right to choose when and who they talk to. Yes it would be nice to have a member actualy request a meeting instead of expecting me to send my wife and kids out to the car while I discuss the finer points of Mite hockey with them in some hal way because that is the moment it happens to fit THEIR schedule (I say THIER schedule because these people are generally so selfish they willn ot consider my time). All I am saying is that you were corect in saying that a meeting by appontment would be the right thing to do but that we all have personal time, board meetings are a great time to get these things addressed.
I like the people that want to talk behind the scenes the most. They have ideas but no time to actually put forth the effort to make change. Please do not take that as a knock on you. Just an obvservation from my experiences, sometimes it gets very frustrating.
Regarding Minnesota Made. Did you write this in the Bernie Poll post?
Truthbetold- I've heard a couple parents on our team make the claim that their association does the same thing. No way! Not even close.
Sorry I did not take the time to read this entire post I thought you posted it here. I am only responding to your post listed above. My information comes from the coaches and some parents of your teams at MM. "Fuel the Fire"? Are you saying there is a grass fire at Minnesota Made?
Yes there is/are parents that are nuts in CHOICE, there are in my association too. You know that as well as I do. Why sugar coat it. If there were no crazy parents out there at MM or association hockey it would not be youth sports.
There are parents like that everywhere. You are the one trying to make everyone believe that the grass is greener. Grass is Grass. You want to believe they are better coaches? Maybe that is true when compared to your association I will not question that. If you say it is better for your son at MM, I believe you. Our association is doing things the right way so when you generalize like you did above you will bring responses like this one.
You have argued the price issue in the past, did I reveal some secret? People are traveling from Rosemount Fairmont etc...You have to take travel cost into account. Do you think they eat at restaurants more often too, I could add that cost too but I did not. Just pointing out that it can be twiested and turned any way a person would like.
I respect Minnesota Made and the skill development progressions they teach. I know good hockey players are made there but they are made elsewhere too. On ponds and city rinks. Yes at the Mecca in Edina too.
skateguy, obviously a been there, done that, in the trenches kind of guy.
Thanks for taking the time to get involved in the discussion.
We usually end up taking two vehicles for just the reasons you list above. I'm a little too democratic in my ways. I believe the more competition for spots, be it board spots or high school teams, the better those teams and boards will be. The bigger the base the higher the pyramid, and all that blah, blah, blah. I started it and I don't even want to post on topic......the hockey season is becoming a fond memory, except for a jamboree or two and a couple more playoff games, time to send in the baseball registrations!! I'm sure you are on the bench there too skateguy. good-luck
Thanks for taking the time to get involved in the discussion.
We usually end up taking two vehicles for just the reasons you list above. I'm a little too democratic in my ways. I believe the more competition for spots, be it board spots or high school teams, the better those teams and boards will be. The bigger the base the higher the pyramid, and all that blah, blah, blah. I started it and I don't even want to post on topic......the hockey season is becoming a fond memory, except for a jamboree or two and a couple more playoff games, time to send in the baseball registrations!! I'm sure you are on the bench there too skateguy. good-luck
-
ironrangehockey55
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:39 pm
hefheherighwoeriguheworiuweoiruhfbqoeirufbhqpoeirubpoeirugbo
3 words
1. Get
2. a
3. Life
1. Get
2. a
3. Life
-
skateguymn
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:01 pm
Well you have sniffed out the right association, wrong guy. I know Pat though, I have coached with him and my kid has played for him. If he has supposedly burned a bridge that is too bad.
Let's back up here,I have not said anything in this thread that is negative to Minnesota Made. What I have stated is the same whether you are at Minnesota Made or Chaska or White Bear or Minnetonka. Parents are parents sometimes they get a little worked up over their kids youth activities.
Someone else said I was fanning flames or something. I was not, I think I have been clear about that. Geez I was just bummed that Slasher or Tomass thinks you can grab a board memeber anytime you see them to discuss your problems or concerns.
To those of you that think this subject is over board, considering it is mite hockey, it is a business for Minnesota Made they should care or they would not be looking out for their best interest. You are right though it is only mite hockey but remember there are as many mite players in youth hockey as there are at all the others combined, if that is not accurate it is very close. So you can understand why there is a lot of discussion about it. Even if "real" hockey does not start until Peewees.
Let's back up here,I have not said anything in this thread that is negative to Minnesota Made. What I have stated is the same whether you are at Minnesota Made or Chaska or White Bear or Minnetonka. Parents are parents sometimes they get a little worked up over their kids youth activities.
Someone else said I was fanning flames or something. I was not, I think I have been clear about that. Geez I was just bummed that Slasher or Tomass thinks you can grab a board memeber anytime you see them to discuss your problems or concerns.
To those of you that think this subject is over board, considering it is mite hockey, it is a business for Minnesota Made they should care or they would not be looking out for their best interest. You are right though it is only mite hockey but remember there are as many mite players in youth hockey as there are at all the others combined, if that is not accurate it is very close. So you can understand why there is a lot of discussion about it. Even if "real" hockey does not start until Peewees.
skateguymn - just to provide clarity. I believe your post to be exceptionally solid with great truthful content at all levels.skateguymn wrote:Geez I was just bummed that Slasher or Tomass thinks you can grab a board memeber anytime you see them to discuss your problems or concerns.
You have mistaken that I believe one should grab a board member anytime you see them. I am a believer in face to face meetings that are arranged or during scheduled board meetings. I too have sat on the board member side of things and respect their time a great deal. I often remember parents acting like I was their slave. If I was absent for a week on business that the sky was falling because of a crisis in the way they were thinking. So please do not associate me with someone that does not respect the volunteers' time. You must have misread something or as Roger Clemens said, "you mis-remembered"
As I have told people. I have no problem being a servant to the kids; but I will never be a slave to the parents. Especially the ones that do not raise a hand to help.
Keep up the great work skateguymn
fighting all who rob or plunder
Skateguymn- I'm not here to argue. You are correct! Board members all deserve their personal space. Just as coaches, parents and the kids. I respect that.skateguymn wrote:I was simply stating that Board members have to have personal time. Assume anything? me? Not. You have the track record there.
A board member has the right to choose when and who they talk to. Yes it would be nice to have a member actualy request a meeting instead of expecting me to send my wife and kids out to the car while I discuss the finer points of Mite hockey with them in some hal way because that is the moment it happens to fit THEIR schedule (I say THIER schedule because these people are generally so selfish they willn ot consider my time). All I am saying is that you were corect in saying that a meeting by appontment would be the right thing to do but that we all have personal time, board meetings are a great time to get these things addressed.
I like the people that want to talk behind the scenes the most. They have ideas but no time to actually put forth the effort to make change. Please do not take that as a knock on you. Just an obvservation from my experiences, sometimes it gets very frustrating.
Regarding Minnesota Made. Did you write this in the Bernie Poll post?
Truthbetold- I've heard a couple parents on our team make the claim that their association does the same thing. No way! Not even close.
Sorry I did not take the time to read this entire post I thought you posted it here. I am only responding to your post listed above. My information comes from the coaches and some parents of your teams at MM. "Fuel the Fire"? Are you saying there is a grass fire at Minnesota Made?
Yes there is/are parents that are nuts in CHOICE, there are in my association too. You know that as well as I do. Why sugar coat it. If there were no crazy parents out there at MM or association hockey it would not be youth sports.
There are parents like that everywhere. You are the one trying to make everyone believe that the grass is greener. Grass is Grass. You want to believe they are better coaches? Maybe that is true when compared to your association I will not question that. If you say it is better for your son at MM, I believe you. Our association is doing things the right way so when you generalize like you did above you will bring responses like this one.
You have argued the price issue in the past, did I reveal some secret? People are traveling from Rosemount Fairmont etc...You have to take travel cost into account. Do you think they eat at restaurants more often too, I could add that cost too but I did not. Just pointing out that it can be twiested and turned any way a person would like.
I respect Minnesota Made and the skill development progressions they teach. I know good hockey players are made there but they are made elsewhere too. On ponds and city rinks. Yes at the Mecca in Edina too.
In my situation. I chose to communicate through emails. This way it allows the commish to respond when he had time. I chose emails for the reasons you stated. People do need personal space. I respect that.
I'm just thinking what I'd do if I was the commish.
1) Why not try to answer the simple basic questions and work with me?
2) Or forward my email onto the another person within the association?
In my mind. If a person volunteers to be on the board. Then they need to take ownership of their duty. Me respecting his personal space was never an issue. Because he responded so negative. I really didn't feel like attending a board meeting.
As for Minnesota made. You're right it is a great program. Please don't believe everything you hear. I can promise you it ranks right up there with any Mite program. If your program does it like Minnesota made. Then you guys deserve tons of credit. Great job!
Ironrange55- Minnesota made moved a few kids to make the teams more even. Minnesota made makes sure to make all the teams even to the best of their ability. No sense on making something out of nothing. Winning at the Mite age is meaningless. There are no Standings, scores or any end of season tourney. The kids are there to develop their hockey skills. Everyone knew this going into the Choice league. Any parent that says different didn't attend the parents meeting. As far as I'm concerned. Everything is going great at Minnesota made.
Good luck!
Foiling up Coach!