Split Youth Program or One A Team?

[PowerPlay™]

My 2 Cents:
I am from Rochester. The city is now over 100,000 in population. There are 3 public High Schools and one private school with ice hockey programs. RYHA in its current state fields a Bantam A1, a Bantam A2, a Bantam B1, a Bantam B2, and 4 Bantam C teams. Peewee A1, Peewee A2, 3 Peewee B teams, and 4 Peewee C teams. I won't talk about the squirts right now. However, All of these teams wear Red, Black, and Gold? What the heck?

The higher-ups in the RYHA believe that this is the best way to develop players. They have also said that RYHA is NOT a feeder system for the local high schools. I have 2 questions then:
Where do the high schools get their players from then?
Where do all the RYHA players go after Bantams if they DON'T feed the high schools?

Honestly, I think that the "higher-ups" in the RYHA are selfish. They promote a select few kids they believe are the elite, which include their own kids, and place them on one top A team. These kids grow up on the A team either developing into good players or not so good players. The kids below them grow up believing they are second class and inferior hockey players, when, if given the chance, may actually develop into a really good player with coaching and competition. The "C" player believes he never has a chance to make it to the HS level, so he just "plays" and usually quits at the Peewee or Bantam level and goes skiing or whatever. That kids might have been a great athlete that just might have developed "later" into a heck of a hockey player. But, he wasn't labeled "elite" as a squirt or even mite because his Dad wasn't on the ins with the supposed hockey gods of Rochester. There is also an element in there that includes the father-son relationship of the Gill family. Father Kirk coaches the Bantam A1 team. Son Aaron Gill coaches the Lourdes Varsity team. I am not saying that Kirk is recruiting Bantam A1 players to go to Lourdes, but I am saying that we are seeing increasing numbers of kids that were once public school kids have a new found interest in religion and want to go to Lourdes to get that religion.
I also think the High School coaches are selfish. The HS coaches don't help at the youth level because they won't invest in a program that doesn't benefit their program exclusively. The divide is quite large. How do we fix this?

My proposal:

One RYHA that administers the association. Deals with ice, refs, fundraising, etc.

Three separate "hockey" arms that are divided along the lines of the 3 public schools. Each "hockey" arm will consult with the High school hockey staff to create a program that develops players to feed that school. The high school hockey coaching staff will have more ownership and will invest more in the program. The effects of this alone will improve the level of hockey being played at the youth level immensely.
The teams in each program will wear the colors and bear the name of the high school team in their area. Those kids will feel a sense of being a part of something really big. They will feel physically connected to the players on the high school team and/or players that they look up to.
Players will have a chance to play among other players they will be with at the high school level all the way up. they will get to know one another like the back of their hand. We will see teamwork and playmaking at a level we have not seen in Rochester for a long time.

What to do with the kids that are catholic school kids?:
Play in the association in which you reside.

What if an association has low numbers and cannot field an "A" team?:
The association with the low numbers could "draft" "A level" players from the other two associations who were willing to be put into a pool of players to play on the other team for that year.

There are ways to deal with issues that come up and they would need to be addressed on an issue by issue basis. This is by no means complete, but it is a start.

Now, it is your turn to voice your thoughts on this.

[Neutron 14]

I agree with the statement that RYHA is not a feeder system for the High Schools. Youth Hockey needs to be focused on participation and development for all kids.

The kids should be divided using school boundary lines, and skate at a level their talent dictates. I would assume 3 A-teams at all levels. While its nice to have the high school coach help out, its not neccesary if you have good youth coaches.

[yawaloki]

A reasonable debate about the merits of any and all systems of developing youth players should be done (at least every 5 years) by any organization that is involved in youth sports, not just hockey. It is the failure of these programs to do that which causes much of the dissension. The other problem is that the majority of the complaining in all programs is done by 3 percent of the parents. There is no simple solution but that does not mean one should abandon the quest for a solution.

I agree with Powerplay that youth hockey is a feeder for the high schools. However, I am willing to listen to any rational debate for the other position(s).

Bottom line is that hockey should be fun for the kids and they should be elevated on merit not nepotism. Their desire to play beyond RYHA should be encouraged but not limited to only those that a select few in the organization believe will go beyond high school.

[gruntcall]

You can argue this for years, maybe decades. Bottom line is that the main reason to NOT have seperate organizations is to compete at the respective levels. A, B, C whatever it may be. If you seperate them, you would not compete at the A level unless all the "A" kids went to the same school system. I know it is not all about the kids competing, but lets face it, if your kid is playing against "B" players and he has "A" talent, he will not get better as fast. My kids play in a town that also has A1 & A2 teams and without that 2nd team some A kids would be playing B level teams. However, Edina, Burnsville, EP, Minnetonka, ETC..... only have one A team and quite a few B teams and quite frankly, could beat our best A teams with there top two or three B teams. So they have differant feelings on this that we do I guess. It works for them. I personally feel that it should change year to year depending on how many kids are good enough to play A, B or C respectivley. Example, if you have 24 kids that are ready to play A, good enough to play A, then have two teams. If you have 15 kids that are good enough, then have one A team. Sounds to me like there is some "recruiting" going on in Roch.

[Marty McSorely]

PowerPlay.....Your right on the money on the first half. Your second half needs some work.

Step # 1 Run for a board position. Thing's won't change with the same people in charge.

Secondly....the high school coaches are to consummed with their teams to assist in any fasion durring the season. I also believe this would spread the very little talent to thin.

What Rochester needs! A off ice training center, people in charge that care about ALL kids. Hired coaches to coach C hockey not a dad off the street. MOST OF ALL THE NEED PARENTS WHO KNOW AND CARE ABOUT HOCKEY NOT JUST ABOUT THE EXPENSIVE STICKS ANSD SKATES THE BUY LITTLE JOEY

[PowerPlay™]

The Rochester High School coaches are not so consumed with their teams, they have no ownership of a program. I have seen Coach Glass, the storied Lourdes Girls B-Ball coach(multiple state championships) at all levels of youth basketball games and practices. He runs a summer camp just for Lourdes girls and it works. I have seen HS hockey coaches around the state (randolph, saterdalen, oseiki, etc. (all state champ coaches))spending buco time with their respective youth programs. They have or had ownership of THEIR programs.

[Marty McSorely]

Well that was the old days. Today's Hockey coaches have 1.5 hours of practice daily, plus 2 to 3 games a week. Just how do you expect these coaches to be overly involved? Wouldn't be bad for a single guy. I agree that they don't have ownership but it's a two way street and a lot more complex then the old days.

[goldy313]

Times have changed; Gene Sack and Lorne Grosso used to run the summer camps, Grosso still runs a nice power skating camp. USA Hockey now has all these rules, the IRS has rules, the MSHSL has rules, we've become a society compelled to sue anyone over anything, coaches/teachers don't need the extra income as badly anymore, etc. the headaches just aren't worth the effort.

Also why would you bother to help a program that's done nothing but bad mouth you and hurt you the past few years? People like John Notermann do a great job, others run a baby sitting service at $300 a week but if you wear their jersey to tryouts.......

[Rocket78]

others run a baby sitting service at $300 a week but if you wear their jersey to tryouts.......

OUCH! You didn't mean that did you?

[PowerPlay™]

More complex? You are kidding me right. Last time I checked the kids still have zits and girl problems. I am not asking for the coaches to be overly involved. All I want is to have the head coaches institute THEIR program and systems to the coaches within the appropriate arm. Then head up their program by being available for consultation as needed. Maybe develop and coach a summer youth camp for their youth program as well.

As for times changing, rules, the IRS, etc. what is your point?

Why would you help a program that has bad mouthed you? Because under my plan, the program would be the head varsity coaches' programs. So they wouldn't be helping the old system but the new one.
John Notermann is a couple sandwiches short of a picnic by the way, so I will ignore whatever you said about him.

[aflac]

I would have to say that Bob Haskins does a great job in the summer with the Youth program! He was also invloved when he was coaching at Lourdes. I would have to say that is one High School coach that gives back and does what ever he can to help! Comment about kids all of a sudden wanting religion this has been happening for the last 3 years!

[PowerPlay™]

They have been wanting religion ever since Gene Campbell retired. Under Ness, Haskins, and now Gill we have seen the faith of these previously public school kids get so strong that they wish to pursue an education that allows them to become stronger in that faith.

[Bucky]

There is not a simple solution to the enigma that is hockey in Rochester,
heck there may not even be a solution. We have a population of 100,000 and 4 Highschools. You could say that we are 4 Austins in one city with
those numbers.

While we have some very good athletes playing hockey in Rochester, we
don't have enough of them playing hockey.

I have to agree with Gruntcall, this is going to be around for decades.

[goldy313]

You're probably not old enough to remember or know but no coach in Rochester's public schools will ever run a major camp where there's the potential for players who pay or don't pay to go to that camp to be kept or cut. It happened 20+ years ago and the repercussions are still around. The school board won't allow it, and shouldn't allow it. You just can't make money off of kids who you can cut or keep. RYHA hasn't gone down the same road, much to their shame I might add, the appearance of conflicy of interest is too plain for that to happen.

You propose a minor camp or impact, buteven still there's a potential of conflictof interest and no coach in town will run that risk. They care too much about the kids.

I could get into tax stuff but if you didn't get it the first time it won't do much good now. Just suffice it to say the IRS does a much more thurough job of watching this stuff now than they did even 10 years ago. I ran a football camp when I coached high school football, I'd never do it again given the current tax laws and systems that can investigate that kind of stuff.

[PowerPlay™]

1. The head Varsity coach does not have to be the person Running the administrative aspect of the camp. They can concentrate on curriculum and coaching. The Youth hockey arm can run the camp and hire the coach for his services.

2. The IRS??? What??? Last time I checked, when you run a business right and pay your due taxes, the IRS doesn't have a problem. When you try to hide income, etc. then they have a problem with you. Goldy313, did you try to evade taxes when you ran your american football camp?