AT WHAT AGE/LEVEL ???

[blondegirlsdad]

>Forgot to add, can you imagine how much the girls parents would complain if a boy wanted to play with the girls. I'd like to see a kid do it just to see what happens.

First off, the boy would be miserable, since girls locker rooms spend way more time discussing such deep hockey topics as Hannah Montana, Who Has a Cell Phone?, What Kind of Uggs Are Those? and How Hot Is Orlando Bloom? Hey, maybe I'm pre-judging, but I don't hear a lot of that in boys locker rooms.

Anyway, to the argument, and I should've pointed this out earlier: Stand-out kids are stand-out kids, in either boys or girls. There's a girl in our association who's the best player on her Squirt B team, and the girl on the Squirt A's is noticable only because she's a little smaller an has a ponytail. They would be standout players in boys or girls. If they or their parents have greater future aspirations, I'm sure they'll get their chance.

What I also have seen is little girls who have been pretty good, but who've played with the boys have up and quit because it wasn't as much fun as they hoped. So they go off, play basketball with girls, and have fun. And I will maintain that for the girls themselves, 90% have more fun playing with girls, talking about Zach and Cody, dancing to Rihanna, comparing hair tape, and squealing when the Bantam boys come in.

Little type-A girls play with other little type-A girls, make friends and learn hockey. If your kid really is Krissy Wendell, she'll get plenty of hockey help. We never get complaints about going to practice, and even requests to get there early. I just want my kid to enjoy herself playing a great game.

I do hear the argument about qualified coaches, and how there may not be enough to go down to the lowest level of the girls programs. Okay, then throw out what I said, you want the kid to at least get good instruction. But if there's good coaching (and plenty of ex-hockey stars have female kids), girls should play with girls.

[U10Father]

I concur. My girl loves being with her friends, and might not play if the camraderie wasn't part of the experience.

[inthestands]

I think we might be loosing sight of something throughout this thread.

The voiced concerns are those of parents, and would have little to no impact on any of the players.

Unless WE make them into issues for the kids.

Does that sound familiar to anyone?

[spin-o-rama]

I guess I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Forgot to add, can you imagine how much the girls parents would complain if a boy wanted to play with the girls. I'd like to see a kid do it just to see what happens.

The reaction would probably be the same as a Bantam kid wanting to play squirts.

We do have special interest groups in hockey besides girls. We want to keep the casual player so we have house leagues. We want to protect the younger players from being at a size and skill disadvantage so we have age brackets. It is only at the top (NHL) that it is truly an open level.

Perhaps we should start a boys level that would provide no-check at the PW level. (Isn't there a no check HS league out there?) Many people thought girls hockey didn't have a chance. Maybe a PW no-check league could take off.

If the PGA doesn't let Wie in when she qualifies then she could sue for discrimination unless they want to pay the same prize money, etc for the women tournaments. I don't think they want to pay it out.

Girls competing successfully against the boys are great stories. I like 'em.

[spin-o-rama]

I agree and trust me, as a referee I definately know the difference because I get paid way more for a peewee game than I do for a girls u12 game.

There's the real injustice!

[nahc]

We are talking about competition here, I believe. The vast majority of girls/young ladies would not be able to compete at Pee Level and above is due to the physical nature of the game at that point. Having said that, Wyazata has a young lady playing as a forward on their Pee Wee A team that would play for most all Pee Wee A teams in the State. She is not "the best" forward on Wyazata but she can skate, pass, take a hit and give a hit. She was absolutely massacred via a check in the Edina tourney playing against Colorado yet came back in the next game and played at her usual level. I agree that this young lady is the exception however, I can only imagine how the Wyazata high school womens coaches must feel having this young lady playing at this level. She will be a force when playing the girls game to be sure.....

To me, if the boy/girl can make the boys team during a fair tryout, then they certainly deserve to play at that level.......

Go girl!!!!

[Can't Never Tried]

We are talking about competition here, I believe. The vast majority of girls/young ladies would not be able to compete at Pee Level and above is due to the physical nature of the game at that point. Having said that, Wyazata has a young lady playing as a forward on their Pee Wee A team that would play for most all Pee Wee A teams in the State. She is not "the best" forward on Wyazata but she can skate, pass, take a hit and give a hit. She was absolutely massacred via a check in the Edina tourney playing against Colorado yet came back in the next game and played at her usual level. I agree that this young lady is the exception however, I can only imagine how the Wyazata high school womens coaches must feel having this young lady playing at this level. She will be a force when playing the girls game to be sure.....

To me, if the boy/girl can make the boys team during a fair tryout, then they certainly deserve to play at that level.......

Go girl!!!!

Reminds me of Monique Weber from Elk River...and look at her now?

[DMom]

part of our association's problem is that the only place for 5 and 6 year old girls is on a u8 team. those teams are not learn to skate forums, as in our district they have a more competitive schedule than the mite under 8 teams. we've had an all girl mite team before, but than they can't playi against the boy mite teams so who do they play during their yearly jamboree? how do other association start their new skaters out?

[spin-o-rama]

DMom, I'm having trouble understanding your questions.

part of our association's problem is that the only place for 5 and 6 year old girls is on a u8 team.

Where do the 5 and 6 year old boys play? Why can't the girls play on those teams? Did you mean the the only place for 5 and 6 year old girls to play with girls is on a u8 team? In other words, there aren't enough girls for a U6 team?

those teams are not learn to skate forums, as in our district they have a more competitive schedule than the mite under 8 teams.

Who has a more competitive schedule? Youth mites? U8?

we've had an all girl mite team before, but than they can't playi against the boy mite teams so who do they play during their yearly jamboree?

Elliott has mentioned that squirt teams can play U10 teams. Shirley, mites can play U8.

[DMom]

yes, we do not have enough girls for a U6 team. I have all boys, so I am a little confused and it shows. I wouldn't be following the thread except that i have friends with girls who have brought up the issue of brand new skaters, and I have a niece starting next year and my sister is wondering where to place her.

Do boys playing versus all girl teams vary by district? I thought, I may be wrong, our association was told not to play the U8s versus the mite youth teams in jamboree play. Wanting to offer a separate but equal program is not without challenges in growing associations.

In our district there are no scheduled games for youth players under squirt age, and I was under the impression that the U8 girls played a district schedule--I made a phone call and I believe that I spoke incorrectly and that is not true. that would mean they are equally competitive.

Really just looking toward next year and how to make it the most enjoyable experience for all of the girls. My son has a girl on his squirt team and she is excellent and I've never thought of her as taking a spot, but I do know that she misses the girls on her U10 team.

[theref]

I'll just try to put this out there one last time. Girls may or not be taking spots or icetime, but my overall point is this:

Girls - can play boys(youth) hockey or girls hockey
Boys - can play boys (youth) hockey

Now, I realize that women were treated unfairly in the past, but times have changed. So we are either trying to make up for the past or we are just overlooking the situation.

I wouldn't be against a mixed leage or if there was no U10's and squirts, U12's and Peewees. If everyone just played at their age level, regardless of gender, then that'd be great.

But that isnt' the system we have and that's why I have a problem with girls playing on boys teams.

For Spin, when the LPGA starts drawing in as much money as the PGA does, then Michelle Wie won't have to worry about trying to get the same amount of money for a win as they do on the PGA. That's like one team doing all the fundraising while another team wants to share the reward. Not like it really matters as she can't win on the LPGA, let alone compete on the PGA, but that's her parents fault.(sorry, that last comment is off topic)

[spin-o-rama]

DMom,
I am not aware of youth(boys) teams playing girls teams in the metro. I just know Elliott said it was o.k.

I would keep making calls and be sure to call your association’s mite coordinator and ask these questions. The answers are going to depend on many things, including the size of the mite program and number/percentage of girls. Some large associations have all girls programs and divide the girls into 3 levels based on skill (instead of the U6 & U8 designation). Smaller ones may need to keep the boys and girls together.

My opinion is that many times we rush kids into organized hockey too soon. Let them take skating classes, go to open skates, practice with the stick in the basement, enjoy going to the outdoor rink, etc. Skating and stickwork are tough enough to learn alone. It's really tough to combine them right away.

[spin-o-rama]

Theref,

I hope that we can agree that there is no perfect policy to when or if girls should be allowed to play with boys. There are many pros and cons to all solutions. I do know that as long as MH mandates that boys teams are really youth teams we need to be open to girls playing. That doesn’t mean people can’t campaign for the rule to change. But until it does, there should be no prejudice against girls playing youth. (Note the way Elliott came down on the GR policy.)

In many ways, the best way to encourage the star girls to play with the girls is to raise the girls program. In associations where there is a strong girls program there seem to be fewer and fewer girls playing youth. Blondgirlsdad mentioned that Edina only has 2 girls playing squirts. Not bad when you consider that they have 4 U10 teams.

I think that the youth designation needs to continue for a long time to serve smaller associations where girls are few in number and a girls program would have little depth. I enjoy seeing a girl compete well with the boys. Girls aren’t supposed to be able to keep up. I like cheering for the underdog.

I appreciate that you haven’t taken cheap shots at me while we’ve had our little debate. That is an all too common internet forum tactic. I hope you and your family have a great finish to your season.

[theref]

Theref,

I hope that we can agree that there is no perfect policy to when or if girls should be allowed to play with boys. There are many pros and cons to all solutions. I do know that as long as MH mandates that boys teams are really youth teams we need to be open to girls playing. That doesn’t mean people can’t campaign for the rule to change. But until it does, there should be no prejudice against girls playing youth. (Note the way Elliott came down on the GR policy.)

In many ways, the best way to encourage the star girls to play with the girls is to raise the girls program. In associations where there is a strong girls program there seem to be fewer and fewer girls playing youth. Blondgirlsdad mentioned that Edina only has 2 girls playing squirts. Not bad when you consider that they have 4 U10 teams.

I think that the youth designation needs to continue for a long time to serve smaller associations where girls are few in number and a girls program would have little depth. I enjoy seeing a girl compete well with the boys. Girls aren’t supposed to be able to keep up. I like cheering for the underdog.

I appreciate that you haven’t taken cheap shots at me while we’ve had our little debate. That is an all too common internet forum tactic. I hope you and your family have a great finish to your season.

Spin,
Thanks for your appreciation. I like to have a spirited debate, but I also like to keep things fair (I am a referee after all) I see no point in taking cheapshots at anyone. Like I've said, sometimes I just have to agree to disagree. Even earlier in my post I said that if my little one turns out to be decent, I'd probably play her with the boys if it didn't go against my thoughts on fairness. (she's kind of got a mean streak already, so I might have to put her there anyway to get some of that agression out. )

Let's face it, it would just bet better competition. Hopefully no one reads that as being sexist, but facts are facts. I wish you guys a great finish to your season for you and your family as well.

I'm glad it's almost over myself. I love hockey, but as a referee you start to appreciate the end of the season. No more 15 game weeks at 5 different arenas on top of the 40 hours you put in, no more whiny players, fans, and coaches. No more needing to go to the gym at 5 AM just so you can still keep up with the High School and Junior Gold players.....but hey, at least I get paid for it.

I know that parents put in a lot of time and their only reward is the happiness of their children. (I have a child so I know that sometimes that can be as simple as a PB&J sandwich or as complicated as the existance of the universe. )