Playing time

livingthelife · Post by **livingthelife** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:26 pm

It seems that every year about this time we start hearing about playing time issues on teams. Moms and Dads who worry way to much about their kids feelings start making noise around the rink and the next thing you know players attitudes get worse, the team gets worse and nobody is happy. Oh, of course they were thrilled when their little guy made the best team even though he was a 'bubble' player. But, about this time, they want more than to just be on the best team; they want to be on the best line on the best team and, just in case they aren't, they want to make sure the coaches play everyone equally.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for relatively equal playing time for most levels of youth hockey (B & C teams and all Squirt teams) but at the top levels, Bantam A, B1 and Peewee A, there has to be a point where you start teaching the kids about playing on a 'team' and not about individual playing time. The best associations recognize this and their teams have great success because the coaches, players and parents know that playing time will be fair, not equal, and they all except and support that. I've also seen some coaches who shorten the bench all the time and never work with certain kids at practices on learning skills necessary for the game. Associations need to identify these coaches and get rid of them. The best coaches make every effort to make sure they are teaching all of the kids every facet of the game. The part that most parents can't understand is that one facet of the game is teaching them about being a good teammate and understanding their role on the team. I really believe that most kids are okay with this whole playing time issue until they get in the car after the game and the parents are grilling them with questions about why they weren't playing as much. After enough grilling sessions a kid is bound to start feeling like he is a failure because his parents aren't happy. Gradually his attitude gets bad and starts to poison the entire team. What the parent doesn't know is that maybe the kid felt great coming out of the locker room because the coach pumped him up about a great shift he had or something else that helped the 'team' have success. All of that positive energy goes down the crapper because these parents think a good stopwatch is more important than good coaching skills.

On every team, there are players who are better at certain things than others and I think it is important that kids and their parents learn that that's okay. Every kid should feel that if they work hard and improve their skills enough, they may earn those chances but they should also learn that it is okay, for now, that someone else is better at it and be willing to root for the 'teams' success. A good coach will work with everyone on all skills at practice but at critical times in games, a good 'team' player will WANT the best kids on the ice to try and win the game. That may be the little guy whose good around the net or the big guy who can play physical and block shots...it should depend on the game situation and the coaches decision (not on how much time player A has played compared to player B). Otherwise, why even have a coach. Just let someone open the gate and let the kids out and have another person there to run the stopwatches.

The biggest difference on playing time typically revolves around powerplays and penalty kill situations and it really works the parents up when there kid is not a part of it. At the highest levels, these are also the critical points of the game and usually make the difference between winning and losing. Isn't youth hockey a great place to teach kids that the 'team' should come first? I am tired of hearing parents complain about their kid not being on the powerplay or penalty kill in a critical game situation when they know that their kid is not the best player for that situation. Do you want your kids to fail? Do you want the team to lose? Do you want your kid to be the reason your team lost? I've seen fantastic teams get destroyed because for one weekend a coach tried moving some different kids onto the powerplay line. The parents whose kids were moved off it couldn't deal with it and let it get the better of them. A week later the team unity that had been worked on for nearly 3 months was gone and the team was destined for failure. What life lesson have you taught the kids then?

Again, the best coaches will find times to let every kid play in powerplay or penalty kill situations (at practice and in games where you have a lead) but I think it is important that kids learn to deal with, and accept, the fact that there are others who may be better than them at certain things, for now. Hopefully these kids are stronger at some other skill and will have their chances. If not, hopefully they will want to work hard to get better so they can earn their way into those places. Our society is so busy making sure that we don't do anything to hurt a kids feelings (ie. everyone gets a trophy, everyone's a 'winner', etc.) that we have created kids who aren't prepared for the real world that is ahead for them. Hard work, good effort, patience and being a team player is ultimately how you have success in this world and the sport of hockey can teach kids that if the parents will let it.

happymama · Post by **happymama** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:52 am

There needs to be a balance between the desire to win a game at all costs and the desire to teach players all aspects of the game. I couldn't agree more that the best coaches know how to walk that line and find the balance. Practices are where the players learn skills and the better coaches will make sure that they teach everyone during practice. Go to a practice and see how and what they are teaching to all the players before you worry about a few shifts in one game.

huskies33 · Post by **huskies33** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:23 pm

In Bantam A hockey especially, the coaches job is to get the players ready for the next level (High school). Are there any HS coaches who play everyone equally? probably not. If the players want to be part of the "A" team, they need to accept the fact that playing time might get cut in certain situations, If they can not accept this, they can move down to a B team and be the stud. (Where they would probably get more playing time than other players, but probably wouldnt complain about time not being equal).
When did players begin to be so selfish? Being part of the TEAM is what is important, EVERYONE has a role the team, and they are all important.

DaSTeK · Post by **DaSTeK** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:57 pm

Parents should keep there nose out of any Team Strategys being placed on the ice.

They usually don't know that much, and if they do know about hockey, they probably are ignorant about the actualy strategy the coach is using

As an example, i was in the car with my mom after a hockey game, and my teammate got called for a very Clean check, and im like "Yeah it was clean with the shoulder and everything." and my mom asked "Aren't you supposed to hit with your elbow?"

This is embarrassing for my mom and probably for me too.

But, then i told her I was never going to listen to her advice on hockey again.

tunavichy · Post by **tunavichy** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:21 am

I was at the WSP Sibley/Johnson game in Shakopee this week end where the Johnson team lost 16 to 0. I did keep track and yes the Johnson team lost big but the three mustached Johnson coaches continued to play all three lines equally. There was times that Sibley put what they call the best Pee Wee player in the state McFadden every other shift and even played a suck hole play twice after the score was 11 to 0. I have gained more respect for the Johnson team for trying to develop players and less respect for Sibley team & Coaches and other so called top 20 teams for running up scores to climb up the ratings. It all comes down to who wins at play-off time and in District 8 I have to wonder if Sibley will be around. ( Just My opinion)

huskies33 · Post by **huskies33** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:55 am

In games where the score is close, it may be necessary for teams to shorten the bench. In a blowout, however, there is no reason that every player shouldn't see the ice equally. Even in the upper ranks (HS, College, Juniors) its the blowout games when the 3rd and 4th lines see most of their playing time

MNHockeyFan1 · Post by **MNHockeyFan1** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:13 am

What do you guys think about goalie playing time? Do they play 50% of the games? Or what do you think?

southernfool · Post by **southernfool** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:41 am

It all depends on the goalies and the level. At the higher levels, if one goalie is clearly better he will (and should) probably play in all the tough/big games. Those games could come in bunches so you may have one goalie play several games in a row. Usually, a teams schedule will include some weaker opponents and the other goalie will get extra duty in those games. Most good coaches will find a way (scrimmages, later periods in blow out games, weaker opponents, tournaments etc.) to try and give both goalies plenty of chances to play...it may not be perfectly equal but it will be best for the team as a whole. Hopefully they will also try and explain the situation to the goalies so they both understand what is going on and why.

MNHockeyFan1 · Post by **MNHockeyFan1** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:43 am

I agree 100%

HudHcky#7 · Post by **HudHcky#7** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:46 pm

The better players will play more because they give your team a better chance to win. If your not happy with your playing time then work your butt of in practice and show your coach that you think that you should play more and that you can contribute a lot to your teams chance to win games.

ironrangehockey55 · Post by **ironrangehockey55** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:32 pm

I agree that parents should keep their noses out of the coaches business (unless it is obviously out of control). but i don't fully agree that the players on the younger A teams should just basically have to deal with it. kids understand their worth to a team, and their worth to a team is reflected by their value to a team. you must be able to get through to a kid and teach them that all of the kids are valuable to the team, not just the top line. kids aren't stupid and they understand very quickly if the only time they are on a penalty kill or power play is when there is a blow out. this is almost more embarrasing for the kid. i've played and i've coached. the best coaches are the ones who can get all of the kids involved. there may be a time during a very important game (tournaments) that you will likely play your top line more liberally, but this strategy needs to be used sparingly. the role of the associaiton is to 1) develop the kids equally; 2) get the kids ready to play high school; 3) win the games. When winning the game at the youth level trumps the other two goals, then the high schools will suffer. If you have standout kids, they will transfer to a private school, and then you are left with the kids who were not as developed because the "good" kids played at all the critical junctures. I have seen it from both sides because i was a 2nd liner growing up, and my kid was a 1 line kid. I do agree that once the kids hit the Bantam A level, the coaches will begin to play the lines differently, but it must remain fairly equal, and all of the kids at times during the season need to be playing at critical junctures (power plays, penalty kills, etc) in order to be ready for the next level. the best teams in high school are the teams that have three strong lines, not one strong line. the work the kids get at the youth level is going to help the high schools consistently develop a strong team. kids learn enough life lessons that they don't have to learn them all from sports. i agree that you will win more games at the association level with this strategy, but this does not necessarily carry over to the high school level. anyway, just stating an old man's opinion

defense · Post by **defense** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:57 pm

The thing is, this is a tough subject, for one, you don't want kids to lose interest and every kid has to have a chance. on the other, winnign IS everything otherwise we wouldn't have 1st place.
I played on a very succesful bantam team one year. The coach could have had two excellent lines and one to warm the bench (yes it is a smaller association). However, he theorized that if he could have three equal lines obviously the team could go deaper into a game. Soo, 2 strong players and one lesser were on a line. Defense was 4 kids who were decent. The two stronger ran the corners in the offensive zone while the third patrolled the slot. This simple system put a lot of points up and sent us to a regional. Now this system was NOT set in stone, first person in zone goes to corner second in the corner takes a puck etc....
but the simple system caused all kids to play, and probably somewhat by accident put creativity into the game...wich is what hockey is all about right???? Break outs were simple pass to the wing and pass out or skate. Now citical penalty kills or NEED A GOAL power plays put three strong ones on at once..but this wasn't the rule....no parents had a problem. the lesser kids scored a lot by means of being in front of the net and in teh end we won....
The next year a certain non american coach decided to have only 2 lines and only play the goalie who switched towns to get playing time (even though he was a sieve). guess what ?? we got worn down didn't have any upsets all year did our usual 3rd place at districts and a lot of that team ended their careers...only to get blasted by the hockey players in high school because now their numbers were down..........sorry longwinded sometimes....

GF Hockey #2 · Post by **GF Hockey #2** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:13 pm

LTL,

That was a very good post.

I have two boys, one on the A team and one on the B team. It is funny because I was at my B team son's game and the parents were talking about the A team parents saying some were complaining about playing time and it was during PP and Penalty kill situations mostly. The A team coach rarely skips lines but apparently he did at the Moorhead tournament a few times in the 3rd period in one of the games. (I was not there.)

My son was on this A team last year as a first year player but they put him out as a defenseman, he had never played defense always forward. I assured him that he will benefit from this and it has made him a better skater and now he sees the game differently and routinely passes the puck back to the defenseman because he knows that they are there, (usually wide open).

I know that last year he would complain that he wouldn't be out on the ice in some of these situations and I would tell him to work hard and keep at it and he would end up on the ice in those situations. This year he is one of the players that works hard and has ended up on the ice in these situations.

My B team boy knows that he is not the best on his team and knows that in close games in those situations he will not be the first choice for the one to be out on the ice. He is okay with that but it still bothers him. I just tell him that he needs to work hard and hopefully one day he will become better and that should be a goal of his.

tomASS · Post by **tomASS** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:25 pm

GF Hockey #2 wrote:LTL,

That was a very good post.

I have two boys, one on the A team and one on the B team. It is funny because I was at my B team son's game and the parents were talking about the A team parents saying some were complaining about playing time and it was during PP and Penalty kill situations mostly. The A team coach rarely skips lines but apparently he did at the Moorhead tournament a few times in the 3rd period in one of the games. (I was not there.)

My son was on this A team last year as a first year player but they put him out as a defenseman, he had never played defense always forward. I assured him that he will benefit from this and it has made him a better skater and now he sees the game differently and routinely passes the puck back to the defenseman because he knows that they are there, (usually wide open).

I know that last year he would complain that he wouldn't be out on the ice in some of these situations and I would tell him to work hard and keep at it and he would end up on the ice in those situations. This year he is one of the players that works hard and has ended up on the ice in these situations.

My B team boy knows that he is not the best on his team and knows that in close games in those situations he will not be the first choice for the one to be out on the ice. He is okay with that but it still bothers him. I just tell him that he needs to work hard and hopefully one day he will become better and that should be a goal of his.

You my good sir - are instituting good parenting skills. Well Done

livingthelife · Post by **livingthelife** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:32 pm

GF Hockey,

Parents like you help create a well adjusted, better player and better players make for better teams. I like what you said about using the move to defense as a learning experience...that's great parenting and very supportive (both for your kid and for the coach). It's much more constructive than walking around the rink complaining about the coaching decisions and trying to disrupt the team. It sounds like it helped your guy grow as a player and now the coaches have found another role for him...that's the way it should be! At the A level it is rare that you see coaches who develop a PP line and then never make a change. Like I said earlier, good coaches are working with everyone on the PP/PK lines during practice so they have plenty of chances to see if someone else can help the team in that role. Hard work can help get a player onto those lines whether it is later this year or the next year. If every parent would encourage their kid to use every experience as a learning experience you'd ultimately have a stronger team. The stronger the overall team gets the easier it is for the coach to play all the kids more fairly.

jancze5 · Post by **jancze5** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:45 pm

nothing better than seeing the guy who never shuts up about how bad the D is, trying to justify his little sport getting beat in his first game back on D. "Well he's only played forward since he's 2".....

Congrats, sporty can now play the whole surface and you can now appreciate the entire game instead of just what's happening in the O end of the ice.

D is a very difficult position...this has nothing to do with playing time I just realized, but rather a random rant...so I'll just shutup.....

--you're welcome...(ahead of time)