Anybody playing in a really poorly run hockey association?
Waconia Hockey Association may be near the top of the heap. The president is conceited and untouchable, and fully unreactionary to parental complaints. With hundreds of students at each level, they can still only muster one bantam squad, and no "A" level teams at any level.
A few weeks ago, the coaching staff thought it would be a good idea to have the Pee Wee C team scrimmage the Bantams. (full contact) This resulted in a broken collarbone for one of the Pee Wees. Nice work!!!
There just seems to be so little participation, so little success, and so little sense.
If you'd like to make the president "touchable" contact the D6 Director and make him aware of the scrimmage that took place. D6 will not be amused and your conceited (your words) President will most likely pay a hefty fine!
I thought the deal was that when Waconia left District 5, District 6 said that they had to field an "A" team within a couple years. No "A" team yet?
The District Director will definately step in and corral this untouchable president. I think it is a Minnesota Hockey rule that a team can only scrimmage the same level teams and that includes interassociation scrimmages.
Full contact Bantams vs. a Peewee C team? Wow, thats retarded.
When is the next board meeting? Do you have hockey people who are not involved that should be? Do you have a plan or solutions for correcting the issues you have stated? Do you know the associations by-laws and policies? Are they being followed? Who is the associations district rep?
All young growing associations are going to have problems and growing pains. Seems like there has to be a movement of the masses to not accept what the current norm is and work towards change.
Someone said a few times on this "bored" if you are not a part of the solution you are part of the problem. I encourage you to try to work from within and become a part of the working solution to improve your association.
No association is going to have 100% agreement on everything that is being done, but it is still best to seek clarity on issues and long-term plans over agreement because that is when solutions can emerge.
yeah the PeeWee C and Bantam scrimmage not a bright decision - but that is the fault of the coaches on the ice and maybe the association did not do a good enough job in informing the coaches of rules and policy.....there is always that old insurance liability issue that hangs over all associations and arens. Risk managment needs to be addressed
The floor wax guy has it right - in regard to starting accountability
Last edited by tomASS on Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
you should see the issues in this once proud program. NO bantam team again as they chose to move players to the JV level instead. Just think from PeeWee B to JV. Under a dozen PeeWees. Under 20 Squirts. Oh and good numbers at mites and minis like 90 combined. By moving the 12 bantams to HS they are saving the program. LOL. I have friends there and there are positives (the younger kids numbers) but how long can you contiune to do the same things and expect different results. Time for a change with the old boy network that runs this program.
tomASS wrote:When is the next board meeting? Do you have hockey people who are not involved that should be? Do you have a plan or solutions for correcting the issues you have stated? Do you know the associations by-laws and policies? Are they being followed? Who is the associations district rep?
All young growing associations are going to have problems and growing pains. Seems like there has to be a movement of the masses to not accept what the current norm is and work towards change.
Someone said a few times on this "bored" if you are not a part of the solution you are part of the problem. I encourage you to try to work from within and become a part of the working solution to improve your association.
No association is going to have 100% agreement on everything that is being done, but it is still best to seek clarity on issues and long-term plans over agreement because that is when solutions can emerge.
yeah the PeeWee C and Bantam scrimmage not a bright decision - but that is the fault of the coaches on the ice and maybe the association did not do a good enough job in informing the coaches of rules and policy.....there is always that old insurance liability issue that hangs over all associations and arens. Risk managment needs to be addressed
Oh, believe me, I have tried to operate through the board. There is most definitely an "old boy network" at work, here. Thanks to the suggestions of the first couple of responders, I will now take my "complaints" to the District, instead. That sounds like it may produce much better results. We simply need to vote the bums out, in order to get some traction. Waconia is a fair sized area, now. It deserves a much more competitive program.
A PWC bantam scrimmage is just plain stupid. What's the point and you are just asking for someone to get hurt.
As far as not having any "A" teams, last year your Bantam B-1 went 0-16 in league play and your PW B-1 went 7-5-4, without fairplay points that's 8th place. How can you even contemplate having an A team at the Bantam level? You have all the competition you need at the B-1 level. We played your pw B-1 team last year in leauge play. In my opinion that team had one legitimate A player. I think it's a good thing when an association does not have an A team if they can't compete at that level. If your B-1 teams start winning the district then maybe it's time to move up. As far as all the players going to JV who wouldn't. The cost is much lower, the practices are right after school, the kids get taken to practice. How can that be an association problem. If the HS has the space they are going to take the kids. Unless the kids hate the HS coaches what community is going to skip playing JV to play Bantams?
Why did the association move to D6 anyways. It seems D5 would be a good fit for Waconia. Dirving to Apple Valley has to be a pain. As far as other levels, I can't comment on A or B, but don't field an A team unless you can compete at that level.
Way out west- I'm surprised to hear this story. Waconia is a small association. I just called a buddy of mine. He never heard this story.
When and where did this episode take place?
I know the past couple years we've played some of the Mite teams from Waconia. Nothing but class from the Coaches, Players and Parents. Not to mention they have a solid group of Mites.
On a more positive note: How's the new arena coming along? I heard its going to be pretty nice place to play hockey.
Way out west, I just heard a different version of the story. I was told that two Pee Wee C players opted to play with the Bantam team.
It appears the Bantam team were short players. So they asked some Pee Wee B players. No one stepped up. So they asked some Pee Wee C players. Two kids volunteered.
As always you're going to hear different sides of the story. Hope things work out. Good luck!
BoogeyMan wrote:Way out west, I just heard a different version of the story. I was told that two Pee Wee C players opted to play with the Bantam team.
It appears the Bantam team were short players. So they asked some Pee Wee B players. No one stepped up. So they asked some Pee Wee C players. Two kids volunteered.
As always you're going to hear different sides of the story. Hope things work out. Good luck!
The incident occurred about 3 weeks ago, at the Victoria rink, in one of the first practices of the season. The Bantams and the PWC team were sharing ice time, which then resulted in a scrimmage. There was no "2 kids volunteered" incident. The entire team was involved. Even if a PWC kid volunteered, the coaches should never allow such. There is obviously a large disparity in talent (and size) there. The kid who was hurt must weigh all of 80 pounds.
The arena is coming along well. The outer walls are up and they plan to finish by sometime in February.
zboni99 wrote:A PWC bantam scrimmage is just plain stupid. What's the point and you are just asking for someone to get hurt.
As far as not having any "A" teams, last year your Bantam B-1 went 0-16 in league play and your PW B-1 went 7-5-4, without fairplay points that's 8th place. How can you even contemplate having an A team at the Bantam level? You have all the competition you need at the B-1 level. We played your pw B-1 team last year in leauge play. In my opinion that team had one legitimate A player. I think it's a good thing when an association does not have an A team if they can't compete at that level. If your B-1 teams start winning the district then maybe it's time to move up. As far as all the players going to JV who wouldn't. The cost is much lower, the practices are right after school, the kids get taken to practice. How can that be an association problem. If the HS has the space they are going to take the kids. Unless the kids hate the HS coaches what community is going to skip playing JV to play Bantams?
Why did the association move to D6 anyways. It seems D5 would be a good fit for Waconia. Dirving to Apple Valley has to be a pain. As far as other levels, I can't comment on A or B, but don't field an A team unless you can compete at that level.
I think you misuderstood me. I fully realize that there is no reason to field an "A" team in Waconia, at any level. But that IS my point. It is sad and indicative of the program that a community of the size of Waconia doesn't have a strong enough program to produce an "A" team. They struggled to even get enough kids to play Bantams, this year. It's questionable whether they should even have fielded a "B" team.
The Waconia HS football team just made it to the state HS semi-finals in Class 4AAAA last night. There is a definite athletic talent base, and there are obviously sufficient numbers in the area. The hockey program remains as the weakest athletic facet of the area.
go to Mn Hockey website and go the handbook or find a Mn Hockey handbook, look at how to file a grievence against the association, read it carefully and follow it , it will be the best way to get results, as for the coaches that allowed this ,there is only one way to handle them, as Donald Trump would say" YOUR FIRED" they are the ones reponsible on the ice and this should have NEVER taken place, if you dont get results through the first grievence you have rights to appeal to higher people, it will take time and patience but if you follow it , it will give you the right to be heard..
BoogeyMan wrote:Wayoutwest- Congrats to the Waconia football team. Good luck in State.
Thanks BoogeyMan!! I'll be at the Metrodome on Friday as they attempt to get past Totino-Grace. It has been a fun ride. Getting to the final would be unbelievable. Go Cats!!!!
whockeyguy wrote:go to Mn Hockey website and go the handbook or find a Mn Hockey handbook, look at how to file a grievence against the association, read it carefully and follow it , it will be the best way to get results, as for the coaches that allowed this ,there is only one way to handle them, as Donald Trump would say" YOUR FIRED" they are the ones reponsible on the ice and this should have NEVER taken place, if you dont get results through the first grievence you have rights to appeal to higher people, it will take time and patience but if you follow it , it will give you the right to be heard..
Whockeyguy...as much as I would like to believe that things work this way, you need to be careful of the legacy you leave your kid. The last person who I knew that tried this approach, had a second year Bantam A kid (who played phenomenally last year I might add) cut this year. Now he is trying out at a private school and with an excellent chance of making varsity as a 9th grader. Do you believe that the parent's actions did not hurt that kid? I used to think that bubble kids could be affected if their parents didn't "play nice". This kid lead the pack, and still....
I bring it back to the age old question, How do we hold associations accountable without painting a target on the backs of the kids? My kids are out of youth sports, but I hope someday that is answered, and there is accountablility within the ranks.
whockeyguy wrote:go to Mn Hockey website and go the handbook or find a Mn Hockey handbook, look at how to file a grievence against the association, read it carefully and follow it , it will be the best way to get results, as for the coaches that allowed this ,there is only one way to handle them, as Donald Trump would say" YOUR FIRED" they are the ones reponsible on the ice and this should have NEVER taken place, if you dont get results through the first grievence you have rights to appeal to higher people, it will take time and patience but if you follow it , it will give you the right to be heard..
Whockeyguy...as much as I would like to believe that things work this way, you need to be careful of the legacy you leave your kid. The last person who I knew that tried this approach, had a second year Bantam A kid (who played phenomenally last year I might add) cut this year. Now he is trying out at a private school and with an excellent chance of making varsity as a 9th grader. Do you believe that the parent's actions did not hurt that kid? I used to think that bubble kids could be affected if their parents didn't "play nice". This kid lead the pack, and still....
I bring it back to the age old question, How do we hold associations accountable without painting a target on the backs of the kids? My kids are out of youth sports, but I hope someday that is answered, and there is accountablility within the ranks.
This is EXACTLY what most parents fear, and for good reason. ABSOLUTELY, hockey association board members will be affected by their relationship with parents. It's really too bad. Most parent's "complaints" are constructive, but the board will typically be offended by them.........and then the son/daughter is in jeapardy. There is no integrity check for being elected to the board. Anything can, and will happen. Pitiful.
whockeyguy wrote:go to Mn Hockey website and go the handbook or find a Mn Hockey handbook, look at how to file a grievence against the association, read it carefully and follow it , it will be the best way to get results, as for the coaches that allowed this ,there is only one way to handle them, as Donald Trump would say" YOUR FIRED" they are the ones reponsible on the ice and this should have NEVER taken place, if you dont get results through the first grievence you have rights to appeal to higher people, it will take time and patience but if you follow it , it will give you the right to be heard..
Whockeyguy...as much as I would like to believe that things work this way, you need to be careful of the legacy you leave your kid. The last person who I knew that tried this approach, had a second year Bantam A kid (who played phenomenally last year I might add) cut this year. Now he is trying out at a private school and with an excellent chance of making varsity as a 9th grader. Do you believe that the parent's actions did not hurt that kid? I used to think that bubble kids could be affected if their parents didn't "play nice". This kid lead the pack, and still....
I bring it back to the age old question, How do we hold associations accountable without painting a target on the backs of the kids? My kids are out of youth sports, but I hope someday that is answered, and there is accountablility within the ranks.
Whockeyguy is right on. The grievance process does work (largely because of the local associations fear of an appeal to the district level). However, PointBlank is also correct, justice will not come without a price! Be prepared for long term payback...my family has been there, "won" and to this day paying a price!
BoogeyMan wrote:Way out west, I just heard a different version of the story. I was told that two Pee Wee C players opted to play with the Bantam team.
It appears the Bantam team were short players. So they asked some Pee Wee B players. No one stepped up. So they asked some Pee Wee C players. Two kids volunteered.
As always you're going to hear different sides of the story. Hope things work out. Good luck!
Boogey - This is, indeed, at least the story that the association is going with. It would truly be odd, however. They are saying the PWC kid is ROSTERED as a Bantam, playing up to fill in. Um......if this is true, is it any better? You have a kid rated at a Pee Wee C level, pulled up to play bantams? Honestly, the kid is about 80 pounds. You are going to put him out there against Bantams on a regular basis? He's at the "C" level to boot........so he doesn't have nearly the skills to defend himself, when kids twice his size come barrelling down on him. If the Waconia association has to pull up Pee Wee C kids to fill in the void at the bantam level, that is just as irresponsible, if not moreso, than a Pee Wee C / Bantam scrimmage.
We played Waconia in a B2 game on Sunday and I think it's true that 2 PW kids are playing Bantams. There was a very small kid on the bench with his shoulder in a harness. I'm assuming he's on the team and is hurt and is one of the PW's. The kid would be lucky to be 80 lbs. He probably has a big heart, but there no way he should be playing Bantams. B2 might be a little sloppy, but it's much more physical and faster than PWB1 was last year. Why doesn't the team skate with less players? If it's a D6 issue, D6 should let Waconia skate with a smaller bench and let/make those kids play PW's with their friends.
whockeyguy wrote:go to Mn Hockey website and go the handbook or find a Mn Hockey handbook, look at how to file a grievence against the association, read it carefully and follow it , it will be the best way to get results, as for the coaches that allowed this ,there is only one way to handle them, as Donald Trump would say" YOUR FIRED" they are the ones reponsible on the ice and this should have NEVER taken place, if you dont get results through the first grievence you have rights to appeal to higher people, it will take time and patience but if you follow it , it will give you the right to be heard..
Whockeyguy...as much as I would like to believe that things work this way, you need to be careful of the legacy you leave your kid. The last person who I knew that tried this approach, had a second year Bantam A kid (who played phenomenally last year I might add) cut this year. Now he is trying out at a private school and with an excellent chance of making varsity as a 9th grader. Do you believe that the parent's actions did not hurt that kid? I used to think that bubble kids could be affected if their parents didn't "play nice". This kid lead the pack, and still....
I bring it back to the age old question, How do we hold associations accountable without painting a target on the backs of the kids? My kids are out of youth sports, but I hope someday that is answered, and there is accountablility within the ranks.
Whockeyguy is right on. The grievance process does work (largely because of the local associations fear of an appeal to the district level). However, PointBlank is also correct, justice will not come without a price! Be prepared for long term payback...my family has been there, "won" and to this day paying a price!
Payback CAN be hell!
The DD needs to monitor the situation if it gets to him and stress the REQUIREMENT that the situation does NOT carryover to other aspects of youth hockey.
The opportunity to be annonymous is the nice thing about this board and one reason why I use it.
Grievance should be like try-outs with just numbers on the back - no names. The facts should speak for themselves; not the people involved.
Unfortunately it is hard to do it that way.
zboni99 wrote:We played Waconia in a B2 game on Sunday and I think it's true that 2 PW kids are playing Bantams. There was a very small kid on the bench with his shoulder in a harness. I'm assuming he's on the team and is hurt and is one of the PW's. The kid would be lucky to be 80 lbs. He probably has a big heart, but there no way he should be playing Bantams. B2 might be a little sloppy, but it's much more physical and faster than PWB1 was last year. Why doesn't the team skate with less players? If it's a D6 issue, D6 should let Waconia skate with a smaller bench and let/make those kids play PW's with their friends.
Yep, that's him. He was originally a PW "C" kid. Waconia has three PeeWee teams, B1, B2 and a C team. Not to be critical, but there was a reason he was placed on the C team, right? His skills are not close enough to those required to be playing against Bantams, and the size differential is an even bigger issue. This is a crime. Is it a wonder why his arm was in a sling? The saddest part about it is, once he is healed, they'll undoubtedly throw him right back out there. Give the kid a chance, for crying out loud. In this case, the needs of the Bantams far outweighed consideration for the development of a younger player. Pitiful.
The opportunity to be annonymous is the nice thing about this board and one reason why I use it.
Grievance should be like try-outs with just numbers on the back - no names. The facts should speak for themselves; not the people involved.
Unfortunately it is hard to do it that way.
[/quote]
Indeed. Try going to the Waconia Association with an anonymous complaint. I did, and you'd think I had committed a mass murder. (At least in Herr Presidente's eyes.) It is absolutely valid for parents to remain anonymous. Trusting that these rubes will not hold a grudge and take it out on your kid, is downright foolish. I've been around hockey associations long enough to realize that they are FILLED with politics!!!!
zboni99 wrote:We played Waconia in a B2 game on Sunday and I think it's true that 2 PW kids are playing Bantams. There was a very small kid on the bench with his shoulder in a harness. I'm assuming he's on the team and is hurt and is one of the PW's. The kid would be lucky to be 80 lbs. He probably has a big heart, but there no way he should be playing Bantams. B2 might be a little sloppy, but it's much more physical and faster than PWB1 was last year. Why doesn't the team skate with less players? If it's a D6 issue, D6 should let Waconia skate with a smaller bench and let/make those kids play PW's with their friends.
Yep, that's him. He was originally a PW "C" kid. Waconia has three PeeWee teams, B1, B2 and a C team. Not to be critical, but there was a reason he was placed on the C team, right? His skills are not close enough to those required to be playing against Bantams, and the size differential is an even bigger issue. This is a crime. Is it a wonder why his arm was in a sling? The saddest part about it is, once he is healed, they'll undoubtedly throw him right back out there. Give the kid a chance, for crying out loud. In this case, the needs of the Bantams far outweighed consideration for the development of a younger player. Pitiful.
I try and review all move-ups that involve jumping over one or more levels (PW-C to Bantam B). I do not sign rosters until I have the background info and in most (not all) cases have a look at the kid that is moving.
zboni99 wrote:We played Waconia in a B2 game on Sunday and I think it's true that 2 PW kids are playing Bantams. There was a very small kid on the bench with his shoulder in a harness. I'm assuming he's on the team and is hurt and is one of the PW's. The kid would be lucky to be 80 lbs. He probably has a big heart, but there no way he should be playing Bantams. B2 might be a little sloppy, but it's much more physical and faster than PWB1 was last year. Why doesn't the team skate with less players? If it's a D6 issue, D6 should let Waconia skate with a smaller bench and let/make those kids play PW's with their friends.
Yep, that's him. He was originally a PW "C" kid. Waconia has three PeeWee teams, B1, B2 and a C team. Not to be critical, but there was a reason he was placed on the C team, right? His skills are not close enough to those required to be playing against Bantams, and the size differential is an even bigger issue. This is a crime. Is it a wonder why his arm was in a sling? The saddest part about it is, once he is healed, they'll undoubtedly throw him right back out there. Give the kid a chance, for crying out loud. In this case, the needs of the Bantams far outweighed consideration for the development of a younger player. Pitiful.
I try and review all move-ups that involve jumping over one or more levels (PW-C to Bantam B). I do not sign rosters until I have the background info and in most (not all) cases have a look at the kid that is moving.
I think the Waconia association staff also had a "look at the kid that is moving." He was moving, vertically, down the boards, into a puddle on the ice. Sign him up!! We have a roster to fill!!!!!
have built in bias.