North Dakota, NCAA reach out-of-court settlement

[wisconsinprephockey]

UND and the NCAA have reached an out-of-court settlement on its nickname dispute.

http://www.uscho.com/news/college-hocke ... spute.html

Finally after a couple years it looks as if the NCAA will allow North Dakota to continue using the "Fighting Souix" nickname so long as they can aquire permission from the two Souix tribes in the state.

To make a long story short the NCAA will allow North Dakota to continue honoring the native ancestors of their land. It would have been sad had the NCAA not allowed them to honor the tribes and their own history.

[RLStars]

UND and the NCAA have reached an out-of-court settlement on its nickname dispute.

http://www.uscho.com/news/college-hocke ... spute.html

Finally after a couple years it looks as if the NCAA will allow North Dakota to continue using the "Fighting Souix" nickname so long as they can aquire permission from the two Souix tribes in the state.

To make a long story short the NCAA will allow North Dakota to continue honoring the native ancestors of their land. It would have been sad had the NCAA not allowed them to honor the tribes and their own history.

One of the local tribes has already stated that the University should start preparing to change the logo and nickname. They have three years.

[wisconsinprephockey]

Do you know any more about this? How will the tribe benefit from squashing this? Doesn't UND do enough to reach out to Native American students? and Dont they honor the Souix name before each hockey game? I know the answer to the last two questions are yes they do. Also in what way is this name disrespectful to the natives?

[Gopher Blog]

Talk about jumping the gun. It is far from a done deal that the two tribes will give their approval. RLStars is right. It wouldn't surprise me if UND starts making early plans to change their name. Not to mention the tribes could rescind their approval at any time and UND would be forced to change the name soon thereafter.

This whole thing was a waste of time for UND. They were peeing into the wind on this from the beginning and all they did was waste time and hundreds of thousands of dollars. All they got to for a result in this stupid lawsuit was settling on something they should have done in the first place.... which is let the tribes decide and then live with their decision.

[Undercover Hockey Lover]

If the Sioux are forced to change their name will "The Ralph" be torn down. Is it an urban legend or not that there is a fund set up by Ralph that if the name goes the building(s) go?

[elliott70]

Do you know any more about this? How will the tribe benefit from squashing this? Doesn't UND do enough to reach out to Native American students? and Dont they honor the Souix name before each hockey game? I know the answer to the last two questions are yes they do. Also in what way is this name disrespectful to the natives?

It is ironic that the 'souix' name is actually a shortened Ojibway word for something similar to 'little snake'. Adapted by Euorpeans from what the Ojibway called their enemies, the Lakota and Dakotas.

I cannot speak for the 'people' but I think the big objection is the head-dress, which has ceremonial ('religious') connotations.

I think UND should change the name to the 'Tough Old Norwegians'.
Tougher than the Ojibway who proved to be tougher than 'the little snakes".

[elliott70]

Talk about jumping the gun. It is far from a done deal that the two tribes will give their approval. RLStars is right. It wouldn't surprise me if UND starts making early plans to change their name. Not to mention the tribes could rescind their approval at any time and UND would be forced to change the name soon thereafter.

This whole thing was a waste of time for UND. They were peeing into the wind on this from the beginning and all they did was waste time and hundreds of thousands of dollars. All they got to for a result in this stupid lawsuit was settling on something they should have done in the first place.... which is let the tribes decide and then live with their decision.

There will be money and concessions that will make it possible for the name to continue. (IMHO, only)

[elliott70]

If the Sioux are forced to change their name will "The Ralph" be torn down. Is it an urban legend or not that there is a fund set up by Ralph that if the name goes the building(s) go?

From what I can recall was this was a spoken threat.
And, of course, Ralph's widow would be able to amend any enforceable contract that was created by will.

[wisconsinprephockey]

I wouldnt expect the building to be gone if the Souix name goes but I also wouldnt expect anything to be done about the fighting souix logo that is laid in marble approximately every 15 feet in the Ralph.

It is sad that we have to come to such pettiness...

[breakout]

I wouldnt expect the building to be gone if the Souix name goes but I also wouldnt expect anything to be done about the fighting souix logo that is laid in marble approximately every 15 feet in the Ralph.

It is sad that we have to come to such pettiness...

It is truly amazing how many Sioux logos are in that building. The cost of getting rid of the logos would probably bulid a nice arena somewhere.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Can't Never Tried]

I think it's a shame that it comes to a point that it would jepordize one of thee nicest facilites, regardless of it use, in that part of the state, or country for that matter.

It was not built to humiliate anyone, or any people, it was a great contribution by a generous man, and IMO if there is the likeness to the Sioux every 15 ft.
I would actually think it was an honor.

I also think of the jobs it created being built, and now being maintained in an area that can use more jobs.

He didn't have to build it, and he could possibly have chosen another team mascot, in lieu of his contribution, but he left tradition alone and honored the Sioux Nation in his gift.

I ask this, if they remove all the logos from the building how should they honorly dispose of them?
I don't believe they could be honored more then where they are.

[goldy313]

North Dakota doesn't have to change from the "Fighting Sioux" even if the tribes don't give thier approval, they are just barred from hosting post season contests and using the imagery in the post season. To my knowldge not one school has changed their nickname since this latest NCAA edict, Illinois agreed to get rid of any Indian imagery (they're the only NCAA school whose mascot is listed as "none") but are still the "Fighting Illini", Bradley has done nothing with their generic "Braves", and 5 others have the approval of their tribes to continue using their names.

The 3 Sioux tribes can't stop NoDak from using the name "Fighting Sioux" only the University can decide this.

[wisconsinprephockey]

well that is good news, and doesnt make this seem like a big deal. I would be dissapointed if we had to start playing the "thunder hawks" or "falcons" or some generic name like those

[Gopher Blog]

To my knowldge not one school has changed their nickname since this latest NCAA edict

Not correct. Status List

Some teams have made the change after the edict. Many others were proactive about it and changed before it got to that point.

They could keep the name. But they'd only be hurting themselves in the process. The problem is, it hurts UND to be unable to host NCAA tourney events. Especially with a planned move to D1AA. No chance at hosting NCAA post-season home events for football and basketball, and no NCAA regionals for hockey at the REA. If you think that is no big deal, you are sorely mistaken.

Not to mention, some of the best (and closest) bigger D1A schools such as Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa will not play them in any sports (other than the contractual obligations with hockey for UM and UW) as they have policies in place against such situations so UND's best options for a big pay day (such as what NDSU has done) is out the window. That really hurts for a school that is trying to fund a much larger budget for a step up to D1AA.

If it was as insignificant as you try to make it, they never would have tried to sue the NCAA in the first place. If they don't get approval for that name, you are kidding yourself if you think they are going to hang on to it. Not gonna happen.

[Hockeyguy_27]

Talk about jumping the gun. It is far from a done deal that the two tribes will give their approval. RLStars is right. It wouldn't surprise me if UND starts making early plans to change their name. Not to mention the tribes could rescind their approval at any time and UND would be forced to change the name soon thereafter.

This whole thing was a waste of time for UND. They were peeing into the wind on this from the beginning and all they did was waste time and hundreds of thousands of dollars. All they got to for a result in this stupid lawsuit was settling on something they should have done in the first place.... which is let the tribes decide and then live with their decision.

I don't think it was stupid. Ralph Engelstad gave the University 300 million dollars--in addition to the 110 million dollar arena. He stipulated that the money would have to paid back to his foundation if the University ever changed the logo or the moniker. The University agreed so I doubt they will ever change either regardless of what the tribes mandate.

It seems ironic to me Florida State can dress up a guy in full war-paint, bare ass naked on a horse carrying a spear-and this is somehow not offensive?

[tomASS]

elliott70 - I like the "tough old Norwegians" I could get behind that!!

they could also call themselves the Attorneys or Lawyers and then they could technically still refer to themselves as the SUE!

[tomASS]

well that is good news, and doesnt make this seem like a big deal. I would be dissapointed if we had to start playing the "thunder hawks" or "falcons" or some generic name like those

or they could use the state tree of ND and call themselves the "telephone poles"

[Zamboni Guy]

It seems ironic to me Florida State can dress up a guy in full war-paint, bare ass naked on a horse carrying a spear-and this is somehow not offensive?

Florida State received permission from the Seminole Tribes of Florida to use the "Seminoles" nickname as well as the imagery and traditions that the school has been doing to honor those "Unconquered" tribes. Which, I guess ironically, is the same thing the University of North Dakota has been asked to do in respect to the Sioux tribes of North Dakota.

[Gopher Blog]

Which, I guess ironically, is the same thing the University of North Dakota has been asked to do in respect to the Sioux tribes of North Dakota.

It should have been left up to the local tribes from the beginning. But UND didn't do that. Why? Because they knew it wasn't going to get approved.

As much as UND tries to act like they are trying to honor the locals, if it was about doing the honorable thing, they would have just listened to the tribes in the first place as opposed to thinking about money, etc.

[Gopher Blog]

I don't think it was stupid. Ralph Engelstad gave the University 300 million dollars--in addition to the 110 million dollar arena. He stipulated that the money would have to paid back to his foundation if the University ever changed the logo or the moniker.

Which is sort of the ironic thing about it. One deceased donor's beliefs could end up hurting his school's future. He may have put his beloved UND is a no win situation now. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Ouch.

The University agreed so I doubt they will ever change either regardless of what the tribes mandate.

Hey, if they want to cut off their nose to spite their face, they can. But the only thing they end up damaging is themselves if they keep the name. It will badly hurt their athletic department and its attempt to fund a move to a higher division.

[Blue&Gold]

I've been waiting for schools to quit playing UND in hockey for this reason. I understand contracts are in place.. but I still think the threat may happen. (I hope not...)

[wisconsinprephockey]

Now that we've reached the conclusion that this is a big dilema and appears to have major consequences no matter which road they take, what are your thoughts on how this may affect recruiting?

I wouldn't imagine it will have much affect yet bet in a year or two when financial status of the program is in question there will be less money available for recruiting, and could be less attractive for young talent to go play for a program with such uncertainty.

[Knowlzee]

The fact that a few minnnhock posters don't spell Fighting Sioux correctly is much more offensive, than UND pridefully using the name in representation of their sports teams. I feel the "hostility" and "abuse", and I am not even Native American. It's S-I-O-U-X,......how about a little respect.

Since when do a few caucasians in an NCAA office building know the feelings, thoughts, and what is best for Native Americans. Can the NCAA be any more arrogant than that?

Now, after over 75 years of pridefully having the Fighting Sioux represent UND athletics, it is now "hostile and abusive"? Why was it used 75 years ago? Is this group of NCAA administration just more in tune with the Native Americans,...know their thoughts and feelings? Maybe the administration is just more intelligent than they were 75 years ago,....they know what is best for the Native Americans. Quite frankly can the NCAA be anymore offensive than that, to have the arrogance to pretend to know what is best for a culture of people? If I was a Native American, I would be greatly offended that some caucasians in an NCAA office building, that probably haven't even been in the state of North Dakota, much less the UND campus or Ralph Englestad Area, and most certainly not on a Indian Reservation,.....are making decisions regarding the Fighting Sioux nickname. Seems to be "abuse" of power by the NCAA, that is resulting in needless "hostility", some 75 years of tradition, after the fact.

This issue is nothing other than politics, driven by a handful of political activists that seem to get plenty of media attention. A few have suckered for the ploy, and unfortunately they have now become in a position of power, and are more than willing to "abuse" that power. It has absolutely nothing to do with the common Native Americans, that are probably more proud of the nickname than anyone.

[Zamboni Guy]

Since when do a few caucasians in an NCAA office building know the feelings, thoughts, and what is best for Native Americans. Can the NCAA be any more arrogant than that?

Now, after over 75 years of pridefully having the Fighting Sioux represent UND athletics, it is now "hostile and abusive"? Why was it used 75 years ago? Is this group of NCAA administration just more in tune with the Native Americans,...know their thoughts and feelings? Maybe the administration is just more intelligent than they were 75 years ago,....they know what is best for the Native Americans. Quite frankly can the NCAA be anymore offensive than that, to have the arrogance to pretend to know what is best for a culture of people? If I was a Native American, I would be greatly offended that some caucasians in an NCAA office building, that probably haven't even been in the state of North Dakota, much less the UND campus or Ralph Englestad Area, and most certainly not on a Indian Reservation,.....are making decisions regarding the Fighting Sioux nickname. Seems to be "abuse" of power by the NCAA, that is resulting in needless "hostility", some 75 years of tradition, after the fact.

This issue is nothing other than politics, driven by a handful of political activists that seem to get plenty of media attention. A few have suckered for the ploy, and unfortunately they have now become in a position of power, and are more than willing to "abuse" that power. It has absolutely nothing to do with the common Native Americans, that are probably more proud of the nickname than anyone.

If all of what you say is true then the University of North Dakota should have no problem getting the permission of the Sioux tribes of the state to agree to allow the University to continue using the nickname and imagery, which is all that the NCAA is asking the University of North Dakota to do and what should have been done as soon as the NCAA started this campaign against "hostile and abusive" mascots, but instead the University of North Dakota decided to go another route and try to fight the ruling in court rather than getting the support of the Sioux tribes that they are "honoring".

[Undercover Hockey Lover]

Since when do a few caucasians in an NCAA office building know the feelings, thoughts, and what is best for Native Americans. Can the NCAA be any more arrogant than that?

Now, after over 75 years of pridefully having the Fighting Sioux represent UND athletics, it is now "hostile and abusive"? Why was it used 75 years ago? Is this group of NCAA administration just more in tune with the Native Americans,...know their thoughts and feelings? Maybe the administration is just more intelligent than they were 75 years ago,....they know what is best for the Native Americans. Quite frankly can the NCAA be anymore offensive than that, to have the arrogance to pretend to know what is best for a culture of people? If I was a Native American, I would be greatly offended that some caucasians in an NCAA office building, that probably haven't even been in the state of North Dakota, much less the UND campus or Ralph Englestad Area, and most certainly not on a Indian Reservation,.....are making decisions regarding the Fighting Sioux nickname. Seems to be "abuse" of power by the NCAA, that is resulting in needless "hostility", some 75 years of tradition, after the fact.

This issue is nothing other than politics, driven by a handful of political activists that seem to get plenty of media attention. A few have suckered for the ploy, and unfortunately they have now become in a position of power, and are more than willing to "abuse" that power. It has absolutely nothing to do with the common Native Americans, that are probably more proud of the nickname than anyone.

If all of what you say is true then the University of North Dakota should have no problem getting the permission of the Sioux tribes of the state to agree to allow the University to continue using the nickname and imagery, which is all that the NCAA is asking the University of North Dakota to do and what should have been done as soon as the NCAA started this campaign against "hostile and abusive" mascots, but instead the University of North Dakota decided to go another route and try to fight the ruling in court rather than getting the support of the Sioux tribes that they are "honoring".

IF memory serves me correctly UND had done nothing wrong in this matter. THE NCAA is the one with the problem. More bleeding heart liberal spew. In the end UND will have to pay the tribes a portion of the proceeds on merchandise like they have to pay the NCAA. Hey, is the NCAA getting money for the sales of UND stuff, if so they are taking "dirty money".